Beer, Wine and the Future of Christianity in Britain

A recent piece here by Joanna Gray got me thinking. I had the pleasure of attending a Royal Air Force adjacent dinner the other night. That’s to say, the host was ex-RAF, there were some relatively senior RAF personnel in attendance alongside one or two ex-RAF types and three USAF officers, one serving, two retired. I sat next to a currently serving Squadron Leader. At some point, the conversation between us turned political. My companion told me of his contempt for those who suppose that a man could give birth or that man could, in fact, be a woman.

“What percentage of your peers feels the same way?” I wondered.

“All of them. It’s just that I’m the only one who says so. People just keep their mouths shut.”

It turned out that my dining companion had such strong views about such matters that he had told his wife firmly, at the beginning of their marriage, that he did not want children.

“The country is in too big a mess. You wouldn’t want to inflict on them all the bloody nonsense going down these days.”

Apart from the gender stuff, he was disdainful of the provenance of most recent immigration to Britain.

“People should understand that this is a Christian country, with Christian values and customs. They should respect the fact and fit in. If they don’t like them, they should get out rather than start trying to change them.”

When, however, I told him that I couldn’t see things turning around in the way he would like, absent a revival of Christianity itself, the conversation petered out. I made the point that if the churches of this country are not used for Christian worship, it seems very likely they will be taken over and turned into mosques, but that didn’t really land. He went on, subsequently, to say that he was a materialist and didn’t hold with any notions of God or of the supernatural.

I didn’t much want to spend the rest of the evening debating the limits of materialism. Nor did I want to push harder my view that if England is to be saved it will be by St George the dragon-slayer not by clever people attempting to ground Christian values in swirling clouds of atoms and molecules and nothing besides.

Still, I would quite like to have a go at persuading the man at some future event of the fault in his thinking. Should the occasion arise, I would have him drink pints of Lucky Saint – that evil brew that claims its zero alcohol rating as a virtue – while I drink pints of full-fat Guinness. This would hurt him, I know, because he was boozing enthusiastically throughout the evening and fully on board with the general jollity of the occasion. But I would stipulate this condition in the hope of getting him to see that Christian values without Christian faith are as likely to succeed in bringing about a cultural revival as alcohol free beer is likely to bring about a revival of pub culture in England.

It’s true that, just as you need reasons to go to a pub – conviviality born of the consumption of alcohol being chief among them – you need reasons to go to church. For a minority, the search for meaning will lead them there. There is anecdotal evidence that the decline in church attendance is bottoming out on account of this search becoming generalised. But one fears that most people don’t have the time or the energy to go looking for meaning in this way. And who could possibly get excited by what they are likely to find when they get there?

So if the search for meaning is not going to be enough to fill the pews once more, what would do it? Unfortunately, it seems likely that responsibility for revival falls on the shoulders of the few of us who still go to church. It’s up to us to make it attractive, to give people reasons to show up. This is going to be hard. It is going to be especially hard given that the majority of existing congregations are old and increasingly decrepit. But there is one effective move that takes very little organising and with which I have had some success in the past. It takes the form of a men’s group, the purpose of which is to Slake The Thirst After Righteousness and entails a visit to the nearest boozer immediately after attending the chosen service. When such a group exists, suddenly the whole business of church going comes to seem that little bit more worthwhile, the sermon not to drag quite as it used to and a new sense of purpose is imparted to the enterprise.

To my mind, it’s not insignificant that the central event of Christian worship, the Eucharist – or, if you want, Holy Communion – involves the consumption of wine. The fermented juice of grapes, it turns out, stands at the very heart of Christian tradition. “Wine,” we are told in one of the Psalms, “makes glad the heart of man.” Surely this is a clue, and not just a theological one. It’s a practical pointer to how the church community gets built. Fasting and abstinence have their place, but the first thing is rejoicing. And for that, you are going to need something decent to drink.

Alexander Norman is the author of Captain de Havilland’s Moth.

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Mogwai
27 days ago

I realise it’s not the topic of the article but I can’t get past this bit;

“It turned out that my dining companion had such strong views about such matters that he had told his wife firmly, at the beginning of their marriage, that he did not want children.”

Isn’t this the sort of thing that couples would talk about and establish much earlier on in their relationship? Like, before they even move in together, ideally. So that they each know where the other one stands and if only one wants kids they don’t have to waste precious years being emotionally ( and financially ) invested in a partnership with somebody who doesn’t want the same things as them, and go find somebody they’re better suited to? It’s basic honesty, isn’t it?
To land this declaration on your partner *after* you’ve recently been married seems unnecessarily cruel and selfish to me. I wonder what her expectations of the relationship were prior to the nuptials and if she was onboard with this decision made by him that sounds like it was thrust on her.

MajorMajor
MajorMajor
27 days ago
Reply to  Mogwai

I agree. It’s strange.
Although it happens.
I must admit my wife and I never discussed children while we were dating because neither of us had strong feelings about the subject.
Eventually we did have children.

RTSC
RTSC
26 days ago
Reply to  Mogwai

I agree. The son of a friend is currently questioning whether he wants to remain married. After 4 years of marriage his wife has declared she doesn’t want children, whilst he does. Surely that is something that should be discussed long before vows are made and rings exchanged.

Mogwai
26 days ago
Reply to  RTSC

Yes that is strange and unfortunate. I wonder what her reasons are. And did they both enter into marriage with the mutual expectation that there’d be kids in the future or was this just based on assumption on his part? It’s why it’s so important to be transparent about your wishes and expectations early on. I say it’s strange because if one half of a couple does a U-turn it’s usually the other way, in that they start off not wanting kids, or just being indifferent, then have a change of heart further down the line and opt to have kids. I think if you start out saying you want kids then do a ‘180’ years down the line you mustn’t have genuinely wanted them in the first place. And I don’t buy these bogus “look at the state of the planet/shitty world we live in” excuses. It’s insulting to our intelligence. Just have the courage to say you don’t want kids and leave it at that. Parenthood isn’t for everybody. You don’t owe the world an explanation but you do owe your partner one if you’re in a serious relationship. You certainly don’t string them along and drop a… Read more »

Marcus Aurelius knew
27 days ago

Everyone will go to heaven except those who don’t want to?

Cheers 🥂

Jack the dog
Jack the dog
27 days ago

Having a slightly more robustly Christian CoE would also help.

Marcus Aurelius knew
27 days ago
Reply to  Jack the dog

I sang in a CoE choir from the age of 11 to 15. I loved the singing and the C. H. H. Parry and so on, but the worst folks in that place were the robustly Christian types. Terrible people. The best in my opinion were the ones who enjoyed a drink and courteous but frank conversation; there weren’t many.

Spiritof_GFawkes
26 days ago

I loved singing in church choirs for many years from childhood. I found my fellow choristers, in general, to be satisfyingly irreverent. Sadly the decline of church music associated with the abandonment of prayer book services and the loss of truly capable choir masters/organists made the singing so much less satisfying and I haven’t sung, properly, now for many years

Heretic
Heretic
27 days ago

May I point out that the author enjoying his pints of “full-fat Guinness” is actually drinking English London Porter, the recipe of which was stolen from London and smuggled to Ireland during WW2, after all dark beers were banned in Britain during wartime rationing in order to save fuel, because the dark colours and flavours required more fuel for the necessary higher temperatures and longer roasting times for the barley malt.

It was the perfect time for the Catholic Irish to take advantage of this, since Catholic Southern Ireland had declared wartime “Neutrality”, refusing to help the Allies, welcoming Nazi subs into Irish harbours and making profits from selling the crews English London Porter renamed and now sold around the world as “Irish Guinness”. The Catholic Southern Ireland ports also provided the perfect safe haven for the Nazi subs to attack and sink the American ships of the Atlantic Convoys bringing desperately-needed supplies of food and other necessities to war-torn Britain.

Seeing how much the British have been taught to hate all Americans, while welcoming Pakistani Rape Gangs and the entire population of India & Africa, and allowing Irish citizens to vote in British elections, it seems they have forgotten…

Matt Dalby
Matt Dalby
27 days ago

Surely the only valid reason to attend church is believing the main claims that Christianity makes i.e. that we’re all sinners, Jesus died so that are sins can be forgiven and that salvation is only possible by accepting Jesus as your saviour.

I could attend church, I like the idea of going for a few pints afterwards, sing hymns, bow my head in prayer etc. but non of this would mean I’m a Christian because I don’t believe there’s a divine creator or that Jesus is the Son of God and rose from the dead.

I’ve no idea what Christians could say to me, I’ve heard/read all the arguments for Christianity being true numerous times, to make me change my mind.

UpittyTick
UpittyTick
27 days ago
Reply to  Matt Dalby

Hello Matt, I liked your comment; it’s honest. I’m 59, 60 next month and up to 57 and a bit I was entirely in your camp. It’s worth a fiver (or a pint nowadays) to sign up and tell you that in 2023 I found that I believed, or, rather, I found I suddenly knew this external God that Christianity had been talking about for so long. It wasn’t sudden, not a Damascene Epiphany, but there were moments of revelation, the most extraordinary was that which pointed to a being outside of everything, by which I mean (and this is a little difficult to put into words in a comment box – it’d be much easier over a pint), by which I mean, something entirely outside of my subjective knowledge of the world. It’s the same something that told Moses: “I Am that I Am.” It still strikes me as an incredible thing for a Midian-wilderness dwelling shepherd to have dreamt up nearly 4,000 years ago, so incredible I don’t think he did dream it up, I think he witnessed that Being through which all things are created, that Being which occupies the infinite beyond our universe which is bounded… Read more »

Matt Dalby
Matt Dalby
27 days ago
Reply to  UpittyTick

Your faith is based on personal experiences when you felt you knew/experienced God and everything else you’ve said is based on these experiences.

I fully accept that these experiences seemed very real to you but they’re no different to experiences other people have had when they genuinely believe they’ve experienced the presence of Allah, Lord Vishnu/Ganesh etc or any of the thousands of gods that have been believed in at some point in history.

No doubt you don’t accept people’s personal experience of Allah as proof that Islam is the one true religion or any personal experience of other gods that other religions are true so why should I, or anyone else accept your personal experiences of God as proof that Christianity is true?

Heretic
Heretic
27 days ago
Reply to  Matt Dalby

Where to start with someone like you, Matt Dalby? You are right to disbelieve many things you have been told, because Christians themselves have been deceived for 2000 years, and now that we are coming up to Easter, they’re going to continue worshipping the wrong thing and going the wrong way, and not understanding. Truths about redemption and salvation, Heaven & Hell, or Jesus & his twin brother John the Baptist the True Christ, aren’t going to mean anything unless you see the divine creator behind all of His wondrous creation. Jesus never claimed to be Almighty God, creator of Heaven & Earth, but always referred his disciples to The Father. A friend once said that “Every hymn is a sermon in itself”, so here’s a beautiful old one for starters, sung by three young brothers on Youtube, and below are the lyrics: Bill & Gloria Gaither – I Sing the Mighty Power of God [Live] ft. The Ball Brothers “I sing the almighty pow’r of God That made the mountains rise, That spread the flowing seas abroad, And built the lofty skies. I sing the wisdom that ordained The sun to rule the day; The moon shines full at… Read more »

JDee
JDee
26 days ago
Reply to  Matt Dalby

Doesn’t it boil down to having a coherent world view on existence given the problem of infinite linear regression which all world views must address, and which none seem to have bothered with. So it’s a matter of going backwards in cause and effect either in logic or in thermodynamics for the material world. Naturalism falls apart because thermodynamics does not allow an infinite linear regression while the 2nd law is linear. Logic falls apart because you cannot bring forward a truth value from an infinite linear regression because infinity is an open set. It therefore sits on no original truth foundation. To explain existence you therefore need a principal of self existence to do so. In naturalism you would need to undo the 2nd law to allow an endless cycle of big bang to big crunch and just have the whole show as self existent for no particular reason. But undoing the 2nd law would be a really big deal and is basically for the birds. In logic or the spirit a principle of existence would need to be self existent and personal so it could itself know itself to exist, before there was other stuff to bump into… Read more »

Spiritof_GFawkes
26 days ago
Reply to  Matt Dalby

My reason for attending church regularly (in the past) was “for the singing and the ceremony”. It may not be a “valid” reason but it was my reason.

Gezza England
Gezza England
27 days ago

When the Muzzies take over there will be no beer or wine and Christians will be murdered en masse.

RogerTil
RogerTil
26 days ago

Your book looks very interesting. I learned to fly in 1965 at Thruxton in a Jackaroo which was based on Tiger Moth, but with a widened enclosed cabin with 4 seats and dual controls. We did aerobatics and spinning in a real Tiger Moth.
Great fun to fly but very slow. I remember once having negative groundspeed in a strong wind and literally landing on a sixpence with no forward motion as I touched down.
Happy Days.

jsampson45
jsampson45
26 days ago

Esther 1:8: ” The drinking was according to the law; none could compel: for so the king had appointed to all the officers of his house, that they should do according to every man’s pleasure.”
Is this so in a boozer? Or are people expected to buy rounds for each other? Better, IWHT, to have a meal with wine etc. to go with it. However, there is a teetotallist tradition. Tradition is very powerful but not acknowledged..

EppingBlogger
26 days ago

An increase in church going will only make matters worse. Congregations are told how evil they are, how good immigrants are and the bible teaching is replaced by left wing manifesto policies.

Cryogenicman
Cryogenicman
26 days ago

What may be missing from secular based religion is Christ. Remember Christ is yhe chief cornerstone of the Church.