The Shame in Shaming Andrew
I was glad to see David Starkey telling Alexander Larman, the royal writer for the Spectator, that all the fuss about the former Prince Andrew, former Duke of York, former Earl of Inverness, former Baron Killyleagh, former HRH, was just an exhibition of what Macaulay called a “periodic fit of morality” on the part of the British public. Not only because he knew his Macaulay tag, but also because he was right.
I still cannot exactly see what Andrew’s offence is. Even if the worst that has been said about him is true (and until worse comes out), all he did was act in an incautious manner: instead of keeping his infidelities close to Windsor, Buckinghamshire and Mayfair, he got a bit international and allowed himself to be fawned over by the mixed dubious pair of Epstein and Maxwell. Even if he slept with the unfortunate Giuffre, they paid her, he did not. And, even if he knew about the arrangement: well! Have not men throughout the centuries paid, and women throughout the centuries accepted payment?
Here comes Peter Jones, the classicist: one of those interesting figures who continues to write for the Spectator, no matter what. Every week he trots out some fairly anodyne reflection on the present by wielding bits of erudition about the classics. This week was no different: but for once the headline forced me to read it, and, though I am no classicist, it so happened that for a week or I have been informing myself about the very thing, aidos, that Peter Jones decided to tell us about.
The most extraordinary thing about Andrew Mountbatten Windsor is that he seems to have no sense of shame. That word in Greek was aidos, which covered everything from a sense of shame, inhibiting one’s own behaviour, to respect, i.e., sensitivity to the feelings, status and claims of others.
Jones rattles through a few examples of stern antique figures pontificating about aidos before saying: “One might have hoped Mr Mountbatten Windsor had absorbed something of that.”
Beta minus, Jones. As I say, I am no classicist, and I have no Latin, less Greek, etc., but I am interested in words, and sometimes in Greek words, and he entirely misses the point about aidos. So let me answer Jones with some more erudition. (I don’t have any animus against Jones, by the way: I like his little book about the classics.)
The great figure of aidos in Greek myth is Maia. In the Homeric Hymns, Maia is called the modest one, and though I cannot conjugate the word, that word is aidoin. Maia is the mother of Hermes, and gives birth to him in a cave, away from the eyes of the other gods. Indeed, Zeus seduces her far away from the sight of any of the gods. And so Hermes, the God whom Homer says in the Iliad is the friendliest of gods to man, is born in the shadow of aidos. And what is aidos? It means shame, reverence, respect: it means many things, but it always implies a lowering of the eyes, a reluctance to see or be seen, to cast one’s eyes on others, or have others’ eyes cast on oneself: both a sense of shame because something shameful has happened and a sense of shame acting as protection that anything shameful shall ever be found.
That’s the Homeric Hymns. If we leap from the Hymn to Hermes to a writing of a few centuries later, Plato’s Protagoras, we find Hermes playing a very important role in one of the most remarkable stories ever told. This story: you might have heard it. Prometheus and his backward brother Epimetheus are given the task of giving dynamic capacities to all the animals – horns, claws, teeth, hide and so on – but Epimetheus runs out of capacities before he gets to man. And so man is unclothed, unshod, unsheltered, unarmed. What is to be done? Prometheus, as we all know, steals fire from Hephaestus. He also steals technical wisdom from Athena: what we would nowadays call ‘skills’. But these alone are not sufficient to save man from himself. And so Zeus, looking down on man, tells his son Hermes to take aidos and dike to man. This is remarkable.
aidos = shame
dike = justice
and (we are told)
aidos + dike = politike techne
where politike techne = politics, the capacity for politics. That is it. Zeus, through Hermes – the messenger, the trickster, the traveller – gives man politics, and Protagoras tells us that politics is shame plus justice.
This is an extremely powerful myth. And aidos and dike are well balanced: for shame is, as Jones suggests, a limit, a restraint on self. It limits our actions in relation to others. While justice is consideration, the taking of others into account, so one gives everyone whatever is owed to them. And both of these together give us our ability to relate to each other.
Well, there’s the ideal. But do not expect the ideal from a prince, especially an unpolitical prince.
The next thing to say is that Hermes, though responsible for conveying these great gifts to man, and though himself the son of ‘the modest one’, is, as far as we know, extremely shameless in his behaviour. Wikipedia seems to count 40 children by 40 goddesses, nymphs, dryads etc. He is associated with the erect phallos; his name was associated with those strange phallic busts called ‘herms’ found all over Greece; and he bedded almost every lady he could find, and possibly some lads too. He was, in short, something of an Epstein. Why was he so shameless? Well, partly because he was a god: he could get away with it. Partly because he was liked – like Epstein. And partly because he was the epitome of deceit. Indeed, he is the god of ambiguity and deception.
Apollo, by comparison, even though armed with magnificent powers of insight into everything in the past, and everything in the present that he could see, was easily confounded by Hermes, who had the additional power of being able to invent 1) new things that 2) could not be seen. Hermes was a contriver, Mekhaniotes in Greek. And, above all, Hermes was the master of words. He operated in words. Words, logoi. Word, logos. And the word logos itself is one of the most marvellously paradoxical words of all history. For the logos is the ‘word’ that expresses the absolute truth of the universe – remember that in the Bible Jesus is the logos – but also the word by which we, all of us, can say that something is the case when it is not the case. If man was a deceiver without words, before words existed, he couldn’t be that much of a deceiver until he had words. As soon as he, we, had words, he, we, could say that black was white, that empire was republic, that tyranny was democracy, that man was woman, that virus was vaccine, that every bit of evidence available to us pointed to the reality climate crisis.
Now, doubtless, Epstein – though we still lack the story of him (because he was an expert in hermetic aidos) – was liar, a trickster, a deceiver. Is there not something attractive about him, even in his criminality? I am sure it was tawdry, but wasn’t it also magnificent, licentious, luxurious? Are we not fascinated as well as appalled? He seems to have appealed, at various points, to various Trumps and Mandelsons, as well as many others: and played them with an all but hermetic brilliance. But because he was not a god, and certainly because he lacked some of Hermes’s final intelligence, he was caught up in his own eventual downfall. He was exposed. In relation to Epstein’s story, Andrew’s is relatively insignificant. If he were not a prince, or former prince, his part in the story would have been ignored. I’d say that he is the victim of the envy felt for him, although he, too, has benefited, at times, from that very envy: since is not friendship, of the rich for the rich, of the famous for the famous, a sort of envy and reflected glory?
When all this settles down, it will seem to be a story in need of explanation. No one will be able to explain why a prince was brought down over something so insignificant. Was treason involved? No. Andrew was no Montfort, or Monmouth, or Despenser. He was just a royal with the usual Plantagenet or Saxe-Coburg and Gotha lusts. His only mistake was to fraternise with a dubious foreigner. And outside his own country, the conventions were not sufficient to protect him, and perhaps the British public feels a bit offended that he sowed his oats on foreign soil and with money involved and in a situation in which almost no one, except he, wants aidos to matter.
He doubtless does feel shame. But what is offensive is how we suppose he does not – how do we know? – and then try to impose shame on him, indeed, shame him.
It is shameful to impose shame on someone else. Let’s face it, it is shameless to impose shame on someone else. Shame, if anything, is a flower that only flowers in the dark: it is only real if it exists when one is alone, hidden.
So our word for this is wrong. I don’t think ‘shame’ is the word for all this public ritual. It is, in fact, ‘humiliation’.
On the other hand, our interest in this story is shameless. I have to be somewhat shameless even to go over it. Peter Jones is shameless. Virginia Guiffre, alas, was shameless. I think the gods are looking down on Andrew with something like pity, and that there will be dark consequences for those of us who have cheered at the fall of the prince. Aidos is meant to be felt, and is, at root, a highly hidden sentiment, a sense of self-imposed limit, a discovery. We were never meant to impose shame on others. If we do, that shame is on us.
I’d like to leave it there, but there is a final thought. In Latin aidos became pudor, which gives us the word pudenda ‘[things] to be ashamed of’. This adapted word for a long time was associated with the female genitals: as something hidden, something to be ashamed of. I recall reading a book by Raymond Geuss (Public Virtues, Private Vices) in which he engaged in a bit of amateur etymology about the word ‘public’. He suggested that it was at first related to the word ‘pubic’: indicating that the male genitals were never something to be ashamed of, but, on the contrary, public. (Perhaps the res publica, the ‘public thing’, i.e., the city, was originally something about cock and balls.) O tempora, O mores! But time has passed, and I suppose the Guiffre/Epstein tale is partly one about our shifting mores. We are no longer Romans. Epstein, we are meant to assume, who would have been a contented Roman, instead died out of time, 2,000 years later, a shamed man, while Guiffre turned out to be vindicated by making herself public, by that famous cheap photo, by court case, by suicide, and by book. She turned her shame inside out: and perhaps at some tragic cost. But Andrew has now – as the demand of our time – had to turn his behaviour and his status outside in. He is now in disgrace, and in exile, and in retreat, and I suppose that we should consider him to have been chosen as a scapegoat for this particular zeitgeist.
James Alexander is a Professor in the Department of Political Science at Bilkent University in Turkey.
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I gave up on this halfway through.
I liked it. It’s not even very long! What made you give up?
I gave up on you ha
But if Andrew was ‘brought down’ by shame are there other similarities like Boris being brought down by ‘cake’, or other famous people being brought down by an instance of poor behaviour?
I wonder if some people fall out of public respect and then an opportunity arises to dispense retribution.
All of the following is true:
Prince Andrew is an idiot and I’m happy he has been defenestrated, but he’s no morally worse than the average man.
I’m reminded of the supposed Victorian attitude that a bride should be a virgin but the groom should be sexually experienced. When this idea was challenged over where the groom might gain his experience ‘surely you’re not endorsing prostitution?’ the weak response was ‘Widows’. Widows are clearly busy people.
‘Many’, ‘most’ men? I’d be surprised. Maybe I’ve led a sheltered life. However, many young blokes I knew would have been keen to go out with (and home with) young women who they thought might be ‘easy’. No doubt these young women thought much the same as the young men.
Yes I was surprised by some of my friends as well. To be fair though, I’m a bit of a loner so it’s not like I’ve got hundreds of mates I’ve surveyed. That said, I’m convinced most women would be shocked by the ‘truth about men’.
The discrepancy in number of reported sexual partners by men and women is no doubt a real thing, in part explained by prostitution, but overstated due to men counting absolutely anything including brushing against the secretary when rushing through the corridors at work, whereas women undercount (oh that was just fooling around, oh that was only in Spain etc.,)
Most but not all men will have sufficient moral awareness to kill stray thoughts about such girls, who, at 17 say, are immature and vulnerable.
The law in the US state of Florida decrees that sex with a women less than 18 years of age is illegal. The law in the UK decrees that sex with a women less than 16 years of age is illegal. Laws (from memory) in Germany, Spain, France and Japan decree that sex with a women less than 14 years of age is illegal.
Immature and vulnerable, as inherent qualities, don’t figure here and that’s not a question of “moral awareness” regarding “proper sex.” It’s question of legal awareness of whatever the legal age limit for sex with a women is in a particular jurisdiction and behaving accordingly. If Andrew had sex with Giuffre in Florida while she was still under 18, he committed a sex crime but not because of some mythical transcedent “immorality” wrt “sex” but because it was against applicable law.
Not sure what point you are making. If she was below 18 he’s a criminal (in Florida) as well as a creep. If she was above then he’s just a creep.
That this waffling about “immature and vulnerable” 17-year olds most but not all men will not shag because of their “morale awareness” is as disgusting as inappropriate. Whether or not sex with 17-year olds is legal depends on the jurisdiction. And most men who are significantly older than 17 won’t ever get a chance to bed a 17-year-old despite they would certainly want to (pretty much regardless of jurisdiction) for the simple reason that they have no chance in hell of ever sucessfully competing with the (usually much) younger guys who do bed these 17 year olds.
“Many people, especially women have a loose relationship with the truth.” How fortunate we are to have your opinions to guide us with such pearls of wisdom. Or is my statement just a loose relationship with the truth? After all, l am a woman.
Andrew is cut from the same cloth as his paedophile friendly brother Charles and other relatives.
“Mountbatten”? “Windsor”?
Philip Mountbatten (real name was Philip Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glücksburg. He took the fictitious name Mountbatten from his uncle Louis the paedophile who changed their name in 1917 from von Battenberg to Mountbatten as it sounded too German during WW1).
The Queen, Elizabeth Windsor (real name Elizabeth Saxe-Coburg und Gotha. They changed their name to the fictitious Windsor in 1917 as it sounded too German during WW1).
Bit of a theme going on here what with Prince Philips brothers-in-law being SS officers and all.
The Royal family are just there by an accident of birth and the sooner they lose all their power, influence and money and become “just“ a tourist attraction the better.
If the British people were made aware of what members of the Royal family, including their King, get up to, there may not be so much support for them.
Here is a recent article as an example.
The Four Paedophile Mentors of King Charles
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2025/11/the-four-mentors-of-king-charles/
I’ve been a monarchist all of my life, but I can’t stand Charles. The death of the Queen felt like a personal loss to the country. Charles, though, won’t be missed.
I’m still a monarchist, to an extent, but think there should be a lot more openness about their dealings and affairs.
Queen Elizabeth II sold us down the river to the EU thus giving away our rights and freedoms under English common law which she should have protected us, a traitorous act.
The royal family has many close ties with the Orient where polygamy and child brides are commonplace. Respect for cultural differences takes precedence here. Andrew has all the characteristics of a scapegoat. Here’s another word, hubris. Good article, thanks.
I don’t like Andrew Whatsisname and I haven’t got a clue what he did at Epstein’s.
But… I think one thing is for sure: reverence for the monarchy is gone.
During World War I, men went to war for “king and country”.
Now we’ve got Charles who’s a bit of a wally and Camilla the concubine.
Harry the dumb prince with a grievance.
Andrew with the dodgy Epstein connection.
Fergie… ugh.
Like the current political leaders, it’s just a sad, pathetic show.
Anne would have made an ideal queen. It’s a shame they didn’t spot that Charlie was a wrong un until it was too late to put him in a home for the deluded.
The banned old duke of York,
He paid twelve million quid,
to a woman he never met,
for a thing he never did,
all together now.
and when he was up, he was up,
and when he was down, he was down.
and when he was only half way up.
he completely blew his crown.
Man has sex with young woman 25 years ago, and this continues to be the lead item in news bulletins. WHY?
I believe that this bizarre situation comes down to one thing: women versus men.
Helen Andrews has written and spoken well about the recent phenomenon of feminisation, as have many others. Less often spoken about is the true nature of men, which women don’t like:
Sorry ladies, but men want to become rich and famous not to save the planet or orphans, but to get laid, with the youngest totty available. I believe that is why the older female dominated media is so bent on persecution of Andrew.
But what I’ve asked repeatedly on here now is: Who is responsible for this alleged ”feminization of the nation”?, but not one man has ever got back to me on that. We just see a generalized blame placed on the female sex. NeilParkin asserted that DEI was manufactured by white women, Tonka Rigger and others agreed, but not a single shred of supporting evidence was put forth, despite my asking. They just scurry away and hide or deflect. What I see is an overall ‘blame game’, totally devoid of facts and evidence to back up this claim ( which appears to be the general consensus on here, no surprises there..). I seem to be the only one capable of providing any supporting evidence for my stance ( and an undeniable fact, basically ) which is that DEI was ”manufactured” by no one person or sex and that ‘woketards’ come in both genders. I’m yet to be refuted. Here is a very good critique of Helen Andrews’ essay, and all anyone has to do is look up the references she provides and you’ll see things start to fall apart pretty quickly. That’s what this author does. I recommend people read this,… Read more »
It is a fact that more women have influential jobs now, than in the good old days. This began as a laudable objective, to provide better opportunities for women, but has turned into an ideology to achieve gender equality. Nobody can say no to an ideology.
I recall when this turned ugly, when the BBC R5 early morning business programme turned from business matters to long rants from women complaining about the lack of female CEOs in big companies.
The big failure for me is the fact that nobody dared to say no to this ideology, similarly for trans and net-zero.
Inability to say no is probably more of a male quality, so I’m happy to blame them (us).
It would only be classed as an ”ideology” if they got to that position based not on merit but due to ‘DEI’ targets, and it can be proven that better candidates were overlooked because of favouritism towards the women. The problem here is: how would anybody know? Or are we really at the stage where we assume any female in a position of leadership is a ‘DEI hire’, which does quite a disservice to the ones who made it through sheer hard work and determination and are very capable in their roles. It still doesn’t change the fact that most people in authority are male, as I’ve previously shared. And on that basis, is it not the men in these leadership positions who must also take responsibility for their organizations going ‘woke’? How does a company become a victim of so-called ”feminization” when it’s a man at the helm? 8 of the top 20 CEOs in the UK this year are women; https://www.favikon.com/blog/top-ceos-uk From earlier this year. So men still make up the majority in terms of leadership, and this isn’t counting many other areas where men dominate, such as political leaders, local authorities, police forces, armed forces etc; ”Top… Read more »
I don’t like the royal family, but I don’t get any of this. To me it just seems like his family, under pressure, have pushed him out into the arms of a public lynch mob and told him “you’re on your own, mate”. To protect themselves. Which makes me dislike them even more.
It’s certainly not a particularly regal conduct. Especially not with regards to an event which allegedly happened about 20 years ago. Charles certainly didn’t act like a king. And not even like decent brother. More like ballerina anxious to lose the favour of the public. Or maybe, someone accused of witchcraft who implicates all other members of his familiy in the hope that he’ll be burned last.
They do seem pretty ruthless when it comes to defending the institution of the monarchy and their grip on it
This seems to be more of a case of damageing the institutions of the monarchy with hapless attempts to avoid bad PR at any cost. Assuming that Andrew died tomorrow, some Epstein crusader would insist that he mustn’t have a tombstone and for as long as he’s found to be living anyhwere, someone will insist that this shouldn’t have been allowed to happen.
As I see it, HRH Charles III. has essentially two options:
Anything else it not going to work.
I agree, surely the point about having a royal family is that you get what you get, whether that is a Cnut or a Lionheart. Or perhaps in future we will be able to vote on which monarch we want?
We could call it ‘politics’ perhaps?! 😉
I am not interested in Greek and classical mythology word analysis. I disagree with the author who believes what Andrew Windsor did is of no concern.
It is of concern for various reasons:
1 he acted in a way the public will not accept from their royal family and they do expect better behaviour from them than from the generality of the people.
2 his actions damaged the royal family and therefore the country as a whole.
3 he seems to have lied about his actions.
4 he consorted with people who might reasonably be expected to cause embarassment.
As far as public information is concerned he has not done what Mr Profumo did and try to make amends for his offence by good works.
Although your reasons don’t allow for the idea that ‘the Royals’ might not be much bothered by the concerns of the ‘little people’.
“… and though I cannot conjugate the word, that word is aidoin…”
You mean decline, nouns are declined, verbs are conjugated.
You know what?
He’s a Windsor, am I bothered?
I’m about 15 years older than Andrew Windsor and I remember a young woman that worked with being delighted to have met Randy Andy at a disco. I had the impression that girls like her were eager to drop em for the chance to have a bit of Royal member of the aristocracy. It must have been a problem for him to resist temptation. His dad wasn’t known for being a bit of a shag artist too and genetics are a factor. And of course his blameless brother was known to have been doing the business with the present Queen when he should have been looking forward to the nuptials with a beautiful princess found for him the next day. And don’t forget that Eddie 7 had 7 mistresses and Eddie 8 had 5 before he chose a rather blokeish lady and visiting Nazis. Andrew seems relatively innocent.
I don’t think it was the Epstein connection per we that did for Mr Windsor – it was that he lied about the whole affair, and lied about having no contact with Epstein when he clearly did. Had he said “ Yes I did know Ms Roberts but had no idea she was under age in the US” that might have been that. But I suspect there may be something more about the China connection that we haven’t been told.
It’s going to be interesting when, or if, some more ‘truth’ appears… my money is there is something more concrete coming down the line, and the establishment have got their ducks in line now… in case it does appear
Let the BBC explain this… oh; hang on!!!
Why does everyone assume that Andrew’s behavior was restricted to Epstein Island?
https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/3129786/andrew-had-40-prostitutes-brought-to-bangkok-hotel
Not sure that was good value for the taxpayer.
Great piece, and point very well made. Laurels for the DS here.
James’ articles are usually good value but it probably wasn’t a good idea for him to stray into this particular controversy.
Did he stray? And why not a good idea?