The Problem with Rupert Lowe’s Argument Against Halal and Kosher Meat
Rupert Lowe, the independent MP who left Reform after a spat with the party’s leadership, has established himself as one of the country’s most popular X accounts. Since July of last year, he has gained about 390K followers, bringing his total to almost 450K. His posts frequently rack up thousands or tens of thousands of likes. And unlike those of many politicians, they don’t get bombarded with negative comments.
One of the topics that Lowe posts about most often is halal and kosher meat—both of which he wants to see banned.
To give you a bit of background: British law requires that farm animals be stunned (i.e., rendered unconscious) before they are slaughtered unless they are being killed in accordance with Muslim or Jewish religious rites, in which case the animal’s throat may be cut while it is still alive. Pro-secular and animal rights groups have long campaigned against this exemption but have not been successful.
The exemption is an obvious case of multiculturalism interfering with the rule of law. If a farmer kills an animal by cutting its throat, he can be fined or even jailed. But if he does the exact same thing while observing halal or kosher customs, he will not be punished. It would be like having a law that says you must not commit assault unless you say a prayer beforehand.
So far, so good. I agree with Lowe that we should ban ritual slaughter—just like Sweden, Denmark and several other countries have. But there’s a major flaw in his argument.
Describing non-stun killing as “un-British”, Lowe proclaims that “we treat our animals with care and respect.” This is completely false. The majority of animals raised for livestock in Britain are factory farmed and are therefore treated with immense cruelty. While Lowe may uphold high standards of welfare on his own farm, most industrial farmers do not.
Indeed, animal rights groups and philosophers like Peter Singer would consider factory farming a far greater evil than ritual slaughter. It affects many more animals and it affects them throughout their lives. A factory farmed animal may live in pain or extreme discomfort for weeks. Ritual slaughter ‘only’ adds another minute of agony at the end. It therefore makes no sense to ban halal and kosher meat without also banning factory farming.
Lowe condemns ritual slaughter as “vile” and “brutal”. But even stronger language has been used about factory farming. Some moral philosophers call it the “worst crime in history”.
Regrettably, banning factory farming would make meat significantly more expensive for consumers—unlike banning ritual slaughter, which would have no real impact beyond the communities that currently practice it. This is presumably why Lowe has chosen to focus on ritual slaughter. But if he’s truly concerned about animal welfare, he ought to call for a ban on factory farming too.
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Whataboutery. If it’s wrong it’s wrong.
Muslim barbarism is wrong.
Ban Halal.
Ban Muhammadanism.
Kosher Butchery is the same as Halal Butchery.
Neither are actually religious requirements according to their own holy texts. The ban on stunning is just another “regulation” made up by their imams & rabbis.
I have family contacts with a lot of Jewish people, including few that kept strictly Orthodox rules but I have not met anyone who objected to stunning or did not support animal welfare.
On the other hand, some leading Moslems have said that if a ban on halal slaughter was introduced, they would have to leave the UK. Hmm.
Sounds like a feature not a bug…
So they refuse to eat frozen halal meat imported from abroad?
I have spoken to a number of Jewish relatives who say the same. If Rabbis want to take the moral high ground on this, they could simply agree to stunning before slaughter. Much of the focus in the preparation kosher meats is in the salting the meat after slaughter.
And that only the forequarters of beef are used, not the hind quarters. I think it’s to do with the sciatic nerve.
It is a relic of history, that if your tribe in the desert wanted to kill a goat for dinner, then the ‘holy man’ would check it out first and make sure it wasn’t diseased, resulting in the killing of your tribe from food poisoning. Its a relic, but an important performative to those who follow those religions.
Let me say this though. A lot of the ‘Ban Halal’ push comes not from welfare of the animal, but to try and find a way to get Muslims to just bugger off to their old countries. Its a fantastically simple solution to the very complex problem. Stop Halal food, get rid of the Muslims. Easy peasy. Tell me i’m wrong…
Both Jews & Muslims can easily import FROZEN Halal/ Kosher meat from countries where it is not illegal.
That happens now much more than people appreciate, but how killing the beast in another country solves the animal welfare issue, I dont quite follow.
Halal and Kosher both relate to animal meats and produce. Vegetarian food is Halal and Kosher.
We are NOT THE WORLD’S POLICEMAN.
We are NOT THE WORLD’S NANNY.
Our own British people campaigned for decades to enshrine ANIMAL WELFARE LAWS in Britain.
Then our own politicians allowed ALIEN CULTURES to DEFY OUR LAWS, whining and complaining until they were given “religious exemptions” which are based on deception.
We can easily ABOLISH these FAKE EXEMPTIONS, and require Jews & Muslims to IMPORT FROZEN HALAL = KOSHER MEAT from OTHER COUNTRIES whose people CARE NOTHING FOR ANIMAL WELFARE.
We cannot control the laws of other countries, but we can ENFORCE OUR OWN.
I don’t have strong feelings either way (I eat meat so I don’t feel qualified to preach to people about being nice to animals) but in answer to “whataboutery” I would say that any argument will persuade more people if it consistent.
The tricky thing I find with halal is the following: Once you have a large enough number of people- a mass market- requiring halal food, you find that suppliers may choose to default to it because having two separate approaches is more costly. This will continue unless there is a mass market for meat eaters who insist that their food NOT be halal. Maybe as awareness grows, this will come. Kosher has not been and will not be an issue because there are not enough Jews to make an impact on the market. This is why sheer numbers matter enormously when talking about immigration.
The tricky thing I find with halal is the following: Once you have a large enough number of people- a mass market- requiring halal food, you find that suppliers may choose to default to it because having two separate approaches is more costly.
This is also an issue with “cost effective” catering, eg, school meals (I know this for certain about Germany but I strongly suspect it exists in Britain, too). Here, the logic is A large and growing segment of our customers refuses to eat pork meat. The large and shrinking segment of the people who don’t don’t refuse to eat other meat than pork. Hence, it’s “no pork” for all of them for reasons of “cost”.
This may sound ridiculous, but it’s a life example of a central part of our culture being abolished for ‘cost-effective’ Islam-compatibility.
100% and this actually happened with school meals in the borough we lived in (Haringey) – and I am talking about 20 years ago.
Look for chicken in Sainsbury’s or Tesco. Tiny section of Free Range (mostly replaced with ‘Room to Roam’ or ‘Room to Thrive’) and a much larger section of Halal. I don’t buy chicken from Sainsbury’s or Tesco any more.
That said, I know a lady who farms free range chicken. From what she says, there’s ‘free range’ and then there’s free range – I bear in mind she’s likely biased. According to her even when chickens have ‘free range’ access to the outdoors they’re so dumb they’d rather just sit in their barns. To ensure they move about more during daylight hours she only supplies water inside the barn at night.
Most of our meat comes from the local farm shop, I presume it’s mainly free range and not halal but will check
The cows and sheep are from the farm and look happy enough
That’s good they lead normal happy lives in this, their ancestral homeland. But it’s at the slaughterhouse where their rights as British sheep are violated, they are removed from the protection of British laws, tortured and have ritual Islamic prayers chanted over them in their agony by Muslim staff, dedicating them as a sacrifice to Kali-Allah the Moon Spider “goddess of death”. To Muslims, that means infidels who later eat that meat will be “cursed”.
“Currently, 72% of the sheep slaughtered in England and Wales are killed according to Halal processes (as well as 56% of the nation’s goats, 5% of its calves and 4% of its cattle).
And, even though Muslims represent just 6.5% of the population, they manage to chomp their way through 20% of the lamb that comes onto the UK market.”
Halal lamb: ‘A market farmers can no longer ignore’ – Farmers Weekly
I will make a point of asking
We should push for more reclusion pork products! Brits do love bacon. Oops. That’s an arrestable offence?
Really chickens should be used to provide eggs. Modern chicken meat farming is an abomination. Grass fed lamb and mutton and beef are the way to go. Cheap chicken is so for a reason and I believe their feed is most suspect.
And not all Jews are Kosher.
Indeed. I only know one Muslim well enough to know what he consumes and he drinks booze and eats non halal meat, though oddly not pork
He would be banned from his tribe if they found out.
there lies the biggest problem in a non Muslim country – how do you bend your way of life to cater to the unique taste of a minority?
His mum doesn’t know he drinks
That’s a great point.
Muslims cannot have life any other way but Jews are more adaptive to their host country or even birth country. They just can’t alter their DNA.
Yes. And our judges are certainly adopting Sharia in sentencing widely
Just because you eat meat doesn’t mean you can’t want or even insist that animals have the happiest of lives and the least suffering in death.
I guess so, I just personally don’t feel like I should have much to say on the subject, but that’s just me- others will have a different view
Excellent point.
And there lies the problem – Muslims dictate their lifestyle on us, whereas the Jews just get on with life and they are the ones who seek out kosher outlets:
what Lowe and co are pushing against is the dictatorial style of the Muslims. Just witness how many schools and canteens in woke work places have decided, without consultation, to serve ONLY Halal food!
that is the fight we are fighting.
Sure – but what makes a difference is the sheer weight of numbers
Whataboutery refers to the (historically Soviet Russian) propaganda tactic to refuses to discuss one’s own abuses in favour of pointin out the abuse of some other party. As Carl’s position is not It’s fine that I slaughter animals ritually because other people factory-farm them! this is not whataboutery. He clearly condemns both and states that Lowe should really do the same.
If a law is selectively applicable then it is wrong.
Perhaps focusing on a single issue is part of his problem. Ultimately, it demonstrates his inability to be a member of a Party of any kind, and is likely not competent to be involved in any real government.
“Competent”, “real government”. When, who, where? On what planet? Starmer, Sunak, Johnson, May, Cameron, Brown, Blair, Major. Traitors all, ruinous for this country. I’d take Lowe in a heartbeat over all of them.
JohnK, he has been successfully focussing on a few things. He also controls many mid-sized businesses. He has also set-up Restore Britain.
I would back him over any other politician I am aware of without hesitation.
Indeed. I am waiting for JohnK to name some competent politicians and “real governments”. Perhaps Starmer, who I recall him saying he voted for?
Hear, hear! While other politicians just talk about what they “will” do, Rupert Lowe quietly gets things done.
Two things can be true at the same time. We should address the cruelty of factory farming of course, but that has little to do with the idiocy of exempting any particular religion from UK law.
In a civilised society, such as the UK, aren’t you meant to have the RSPCA and whoever else, going around regularly and checking standards and that certain requirements are being met on farms, abattoirs etc? Or is it that standards are now so low that the inhumane treatment of animals is therefore normalised?
Either way, these animal welfare inspectors need to do what they’re being paid to do and/or standards on farms need to be re-evaluated.
Obviously all non-stun slaughter should be banned. This is a given. Surely there must even exist Muslims and Jews who also oppose this.
Actually, how did they slaughter animals in the olden days, before electricity? Just the same as Halal/Kosher, minus the prayers? 🤔
To the latter question, yes, see Jude the Obscure.
In the pre stun days, the butcher would probably use a sharp knife and chop the head off, instead of letting the blood thirsty executor enjoy his 5-10 min of ritual…
See my comment above
I know in china they still chop off the head of chicken.
Stunning before electric shock. In the Yorkshire Dales they used a hand held stunning hammer which basically knocked the animal out and then once unconscious proceeded to slit the throat. I presume it was the same procedure throughout the country.
I occasionally eat meat which has been shot. I try to avoid crunching down on the pellets.
Rupert Lowe didn’t leave Reform after a “spat.” He tried many times to have a private meeting with Nigel Fragile and was refused. No one must have the talent or ideas to outshine NF. MZY then reported Lowe to the police. Some “spat.”
Despicable low shot from Farage.
What a ridiculous argument. It has the form ‘we should not prevent a moral harm, X, because there is a greater moral harm, Y, that we have not prevented’.
We should indeed work on returning animals to the land, but that does not prevent us dealing with the low hanging fruit first.
That’s not the argument which was made. It was
if he [Lowe] is truly concerned about animal welfare, he ought to call for a ban on factory farming too.
which demands that we should prevent both X and Y instead of focussing on one of them alone.
Perhaps we could have a follow up article arguing ‘Only vegans have the right to complain about ritual slaughter’ because, mutatits mutandis, the same considerations presumably apply? We could then follow with ‘It is illegitimate to complain about any instance of injustice, without complaining about all cognate instances of injustice’ perhaps.
That’s the opinion of the author and, to a degree, also mine about these two particular issues and not about anything else someone might believe to be closely related, too.
So there is a unique moral rule that applies specifically when factory farming and ritual slaughter are mentioned together, but is not necessarily applicable in any other context?
I don’t want to and actually, also, don’t think I could, meet Kant’s demand of always acting like a paragon of virtue really should. But that’s rather removed from the topic at hand.
Well as I wrote earlier, arguments are usually more convincing if they are consistent. So if you argue against one injustice on a particular basis, but ignore another obvious injustice that is on the same basis, people will think your arguments are not what you really think but that you have some other hidden reasons.
This sounds like a leftist criticism, a hint that prejudice might be at play.
But I take your point, as the left does not like to hear arguments about their obsession with Israel-Palestine to the exclusion of other global conflicts.
Indeed. I wasn’t making that criticism myself, just pointing out that others might.
Perhaps Lowe doesn’t have to spell out his operation to factory farming? Do we all have to say we are not racist to be taken seriously?
Lowe highlights the absurdity of Muslims dictating to Brits how we should slaughter our animals for meat.
…and Jews!
If the government won’t ban it in fear of upsetting someone It should be marked properly so we can make a informed choice & hopefully stop this by consumer choice
This assumes that middle-men will continue to enable such choices which won’t necessarily be the case, see tof-comment above.
I absolutely second that. Animals are not products but living beings and ought to be treated as such even when they’re just raised for eventually harvesting them. That they’re more robust than plants and thus, can survive worse treatement with their commercial value intact, doesn’t justify actually doing so. Factory farming is an abominations imported from the USA which must be abolished again.
Noah Carl wrote,
“Ritual slaughter ‘only’ adds another minute of agony at the end.”
FALSE! It can take as long as TWENTY MINUTES OF AGONY for an animal to slowly choke to death on its own blood after having its throat cut.
Muslims and Jews can EASILY IMPORT FROZEN HALAL/ KOSHER MEAT from countries with no laws against animal cruelty.
Rupert Lowe is absolutely right to stand firm on this.
We should ban halal/kosher slaughter entirely, with severe punishment for transgressors and also ban the importation of such products. That would be a good start to getting our country back again.
There are reports of numerous universities serving only halal meat to everyone, regardless of their religious beliefs or their attitude towards non-stun slaughter.
I suspect universities are not the only public institutions doing this kind of thing to appease the Muslim population. Even worse, some of them are not open about it.
I would be very unhappy to know that I was being served meat from an animal that had not been slaughtered humanely and, in addition, had been part of an Islamic ritual in the process.
See my post above about Haringey schools. I am sure Haringey is not the only place to do this.
. and (allegedly) only halal compliant foods in hospitals, canteens, military, schools, etc
Factory farming provides cheap food. Ritual slaughter has no positives.
Factory farming maximizes ROI by reducing the cost of “producing” animal-based food. This may result in significantly cheaper food than alternative methods but it may as well not. Under a subsidy scheme like the one operated by the EU (the so-called Common Agricultural Policy), it also maximizes state subsidies as these are paid in proportion to the “size” of an enterpries, ie, rear more pigs => get more subsidies.
As with most topics, most people don’t know about an issue until they start asking questions about it, and they only start asking questions when something draws their attention to it.
Halal slaughter became a major issue because so many Muslims were pushing for everybody to only eat halal meat. This made people start asking the question of what exactly is it? Then it became a hot political topic as people were rightly outraged.
Rupert Lowe was criticised for focusing on halal whilst ignoring kosher, but that was only because Jewish people were not screaming about wanting more.
This article seems to be arguing that you should either solve all problems at exactly the same time or none at all, ridiculous, a problem has been identified and it is right to push for a solution.
If there are other problems, then they should be looked at in due course
“just like Sweden, Denmark”
Have they also banned factory farming? I doubt it. Also, what is your definition of factory farming so that we know what you are referring to? There are regulations in place for animal welfare on British farms.
While looking up information about Frozen Halal/ Kosher Meat imported from abroad to feed UK Muslims & Jews while protecting British livestock with British laws against animal cruelty, I found some shocking information about the COD in our favourite Fish & Chips.
While we in the UK are forced to eat inferior Cod imported all the way from China, our own British fishermen are landing the Cod they’ve caught in the North Sea and Icelandic waters, then EXPORTING HALF OF IT TO IRELAND, and the rest to France & Spain! This is just madness!
Cod-astrophe: Unsustainable UK Cod Exports Face Demand-side Squeeze – Planet Tracker
“The UK exports most of its seafood catch to EU neighbours, and then imports fish for domestic consumption. Cod, a significant fish in UK diets, is primarily sourced from Icelandic and Chinese markets, while UK-derived cod is exported to the EU 27.”
If you commit a crime, a sin, a wrong, it will rot your soul, your self-worth, your inner-self, regardless of whether or not you are consciously aware and considerate of the negative you have perpetrated. This is called karma in ancient wisdom. I believe it is not some woo woo magical force, it is an effect of the subconscious mind that was once well understood. Does the eating of animals construe such an error? I think not but only if and when special conditions are always met: treating the beasts, from birth to death, with absolute kindness and respect, being fully mindful of the process that results in flesh on your plate. If we do not take this care, which we do not, then our world, ourselves and our societies, are plagued with this wrong. And the effect of that is ultimately disruptive to us all, degrades us from being the best we could otherwise be. Every step away from this horror is a good step to take on the path to a better world, and we should take every such step as best we can. Nothing is impossible if we break it down into small enough steps, said Henry… Read more »
“Cutting the throat” – if done correctly severs both carotid arteries and veins on both sides which causes immediate massive exsanguination and drop of blood pressure and supply to the brain.
Unconsciousness is in a split second.
No.
https://www.quora.com/Why-does-Kelloggs-cereal-have-a-halal-symbol-on-the-package
Halal certification extends far and wide, into vegetarian and vegan foods, it is a vast network giving out certifications in return for a fee. So when you buy a packet of Kelloggs cereal you are paying a scintilla of a kind of temple tax to Islamic organisations.
And of course many of our institutions are going for halal despite the majority of eaters being infidels, the institution saying that it doesn’t matter, most people don’t object anyway, so just do a spot of ‘submission’ and don’t make a fuss. We hear that all schools do this, the army, universities etc etc.
In short it’s a huge quiet matrix of Dawa, quietly bedding down Islamic food custom law into western nations, it’s Sharia food law, you are going along with it and paying for it with each pack of cereal etc.
I wonder if the slaughter of animals in Arab lands goes in for western stunning making it a bit less agonising, probably not. Western law and culture does not try to do a counter Dawa into Muslim lands, ever?
Thank you Noah Carl for speaking out against factory-farming. It is indeed unspeakably cruel, and individuals and society as a whole should on no account participate in it by buying and consuming such produce.
‘Regrettably, banning factory farming would make meat significantly more expensive for consumers.’ Yes. It would not be a moral issue if one could merely do the right thing without cost to oneself. It is when doing the right thing costs that choosing it becomes a moral choice.
Well said!
Oh dear, Noah, I thought you knew what you were writing about in your articles until I read this.
What nonsense about factory farming – has he ever been on a farm?? I raised indoor pigs for many years, we were never cruel to them and they always put on weight which is hardly a sign of being unhappy
It is unspeakably cruel to force a captive animal to never see the light of day, never feel the sun or wind, never be outside.
It’s like keeping a bird in a darkened box for the whole of its life.
This writer shouldn’t be allowed to write like that – the biggest flaw in his ‘argument’?
he assumes that halal / kosher animals are better looked after than ‘farm’ animals! Wrong!
all animals (except very small farm reared ones) are bred large scale. Whether they live a humane live depends on the farmers. But the same animals will be stunned before slaughtering.
The unfortunate ones get their throats slit instead.
Broke my usual rule of skipping over N Carl articles.
Regretted it.
Two different arguments. Some factory farming may lead to a few animals suffering, but to ban it would put the price of meat and dairy out of reach for many.
Non stun killing is illegal, there is no reason for it, save to placate a Muslims and Jews and all the animals exposed to it suffer.
If other countries can ban it, and presumably their Muslim and Jew populations still eat meat, so should Britain.
Define “factory farming”, please.
I think he is right, but there are bigger issues to be dealt with, for example the ‘Islamophobia’ definition which Labour will without doubt, shoehorn into British law before they are eventually thrown out of government, never to return (hopefully).
That nasty little legislative landmine, once established will prevent any discussion of extreme actions, by extreme Islamists.
The last time they tried to install that unpleasant piece of malware in our legal system, they were prized enough to openly quote the abhorrent abuse by the many ‘grooming gangs’ as a discussion that would be made illegal, should they implement the same legal definition they are trying to have written into the statute book now.
It is a terrible thing to torture an animal to death, and it’s shocking that Animal Rights groups ignore it, similar to feminists who ignore the subjugation of women under sharia law, but allowing them to make any discussion of extremist Islamic practices illegal could have a profoundly damaging effect upon our whole society. Particularly vulnerable young girls living in northern towns.
My two pennorth – meat is becoming more expensive because the supply of animals is decreasing. Beef has gone up a lot. Various factors at work including no doubt the government’s disregard for farmers. Chickens coming home to roost in many ways.
The biggest buyer of cull ewes is the Muslim market I believe. When, that is, they are not slaughtered in the fields by Toma as they were in the recent past in the Birmingham green belt.
Join The Humane Slaughter Association.
I’m assuming my chateaubriand from Waitrose at £65/lb is neither Halal nor factory farmed?
My ex is a muslim vet with slaughter house experience in Egypt. The explanation for not stunning is that the animal suffers twice – the stun and the cut – in halal slaughter it only suffers once. I never quite got my head around that line of reasoning.
Ritual slaughter is one issue within animal welfare and in my opinion it is wrong to criticise Rupert Lowe for taking up this issue whilst not trying to reform the whole animal welfare.
Animal welfare regulations in the U.K. are at a band B, which is the level achieved by some countries in Europe (none achieve A). So in law not too bad, enforcement could be better. And there are differences between sectors and farms.
Regarding slaughter, I actually visited an abattoir in Antwerp as a student and saw the ritual slaughter of cows (kosher) and sheep (halal). The process of dying is much longer using these ritual methods and therefore less animal friendly.
Another aspect of abattoirs is that because of EU rules a lot of local abattoirs were shut, so animals have to be transported over much longer distances, which does cause additional stress.
And regarding food prices, we know that the farmer generally does not get a fair price for their food as it is. Profitability of farming is not great.