Three Things about Islam
What with
- Starmer’s Labour party, Sadiq Khan and, until recently, Humza Yousaf,
- Hamit Coskun and Hatun Tash,
- ‘The Boats’ and ‘Grooming Gangs’, and
- Gaza, ‘From the River to the Sea’, Death-to-the-IDF and Tehran,
Islam is only becoming more significant. It is probably not a bad idea to look over what its significance is.
Islam was a great concern for Europeans during the Crusades. It was the equal and opposite entity, the enemy. Islam might have come to Europe in the eighth century but for Charles Martel at the Battle of Tours in 732, or in the 16th or 17th centuries but for the Habsburgs at the sieges of Vienna in 1529 or 1683. Europe mostly ignored Islam, or dealt with it, and, during the 19th and 20th centuries the European powers propped up Islamic powers or let them fall and, between the 1870s and the 1920s, engaged in great acts of dismemberment which created states where none had ever existed, states with obscure names like Jordan and Iraq. They also eventually inserted a Zionist Israel, the cause of much trouble, as this granted the entire Islamic world an enemy of its own, an enemy within. In England we barely thought about Islam until the fatwa against Salman Rushie in 1989, and a concern with Islam became general after 2001 when the events of 9/11 were allowed to dominate all aspects of security and military policy. Books poured out of the press. Bernard Lewis became almost a household name for numerous books on the subject. Even Roger Scruton contributed a book, The West and the Rest, published in 2003. The literatures have expanded, and much of it has gone the other way around: opposing Lewis and Scruton positions by urging new variants of the Edward Said hypothesis that the Islamic world has been shackled by being imagined as if from the West and not allowed to imagine itself – in the West, at least. Michael Cook’s very good Past Master on Muhammad, published in 1983, was not considered by Oxford University Press to be polite enough about the Prophet, so, whereas it transferred many of the old volumes into a new series of ‘very short introductions’, it commissioned Jonathan A.C. Brown to write a replacement, Muhammad: A Very Short Introduction in 2011. Brown, unlike Cook, was a convert to Islam: supporting the view that only views-from-within should now be permitted. His book was endorsed by Tariq Ramadan, and involved criticisms of the sceptical historical writings of Patricia Crone – and Michael Cook.
The literature is interminable and confusing. So I would like to bring to your attention three old, and very good, insights about Islam. I shall associate each with one of three great writers: Hegel, Belloc and Girard.
1. Hegel
G.W.F. Hegel has five or so pages on Islam in The Philosophy of History, which were lectures given in the 1820s. Hegel sees Islam as a religion of submission because it is a religion of the worship of the one.
The worship of the One is the only final aim of Mahometanism. … The worship of the One remains the only bond by which the whole is capable of uniting. … No particular race, political claim of birth or possession is regarded — only man as believer. … The highest merit is to die for the Faith.
I remember that when I first read this I had just seen Cairo. Hegel barely travelled outside a triangle with corners in Berlin, Paris and Nuremberg. Yet he had an astonishing vision of Islam. “In their deserts nothing can be brought into firm consistent shape.” This, too, was my sense of Egypt: as if everything, all subtlety, was simply burnt off the surface of the sand by the intense sun. Consequently, for Hegel, what was left was fanaticism, and, its earthly analogue, conquest. And: “The Mahometan is indifferent to the social fabric.” Yet there was admiration:
Where… a noble soul makes itself prominent — like a billow on the surging of the sea — it manifests itself in a majesty of freedom, such that nothing more noble, more generous, more valiant, more devoted was ever witnessed. The particular determinate object which the individual embraces is grasped by him entirely — with the whole soul. While Europeans are involved in a multitude of relations, and form, so to speak, ‘a bundle’ of them — in Mahometanism the individual is one passion and that alone; he is superlatively cruel, cunning, bold or generous. Where the sentiment of love exists, there is an equal abandon — love the most fervid. … Never has enthusiasm, as such, performed greater deeds.
But Hegel also had an explanation for our modern vision of the Orient. He argued that once fanaticism cooled (and while the Europeans during the Crusades dubiously idealised themselves as chivalrous), the East lapsed into “the grossest vice”, “sensual enjoyment” and “Oriental ease and repose”.
Almost all of this could be argued with, and probably would be nowadays. Yet it has something in it. And the root idea is that Islam is the religion of the One, the absolute One.
2. Belloc
Hilaire Belloc has a chapter on Islam in his astounding book The Great Heresies, which was published in 1938. Belloc called Islam “not a new religion”, but a “heresy”, a “perversion of Christian doctrine”. Mohammed had taught the unity of God, but denied the Trinity and the Incarnation. Belloc noticed that his contemporaries in England and Europe were complacent about Islam, thinking it would fade away in the face of empire, industry and enlightenment. “It is, as a fact,” he argued, “the most formidable and persistent enemy which our civilisation has had, and may at any moment become as large a menace in the future as it has been in the past.” Why? One reason was that, “Islam is apparently unconvertible.” No one ever converts out of it. The “simplicity and justice of the faith has made it indestructible”. In addition, it “continually recruited” into itself “fighting material of the strongest kind… from the pagan outer darkness”. In a way that we might now find surprising, Belloc took the Crusades to have been “the major tragedy” in the struggle against Islam. If the Crusaders had taken Damascus, the Islamic world would have been broken in two. But Islam had survived, and now in the 20th century there was nothing in it that was “hostile to the development of scientific knowledge or of mechanical aptitude”, “nothing inherent to Mohammedanism to make it incapable of modern science or of modern war”. In other words, enlightened ideas, of a certain sort, were already embedded well enough in the Arab world.
Belloc was alone in predicting that the rivalry between Islam and Christianity would return. He argued that while the West was strong in material terms, it had suffered a spiritual decline that Islam had not suffered. Whereas Muslims continued to worship the One, Belloc observed that the West worshipped itself, the nation, technology, capitalism, social justice. Right. But his leading idea, and the one that we need to recall, is that he found no evidence in all of history for Muslims ever being converted out of Islam. If Hegel suggested that Islam was about the worship of the One, Belloc claimed that as such it was Unconvertible. One or two exceptions only prove the rule. And, we should add, Christians have often converted to Islam. Christianity is such a complicated and fragile entity that without the support of an establishment and a clerisy it soon collapses into pleasant unitarianism and can be assimilated into a less pleasant unitarianism: communism, for instance, or cameralism, or Covidism.
3. Girard
Rene Girard, who died 10 years ago, was one of the great thinkers of the late 20th century. Famous for his books on sacrifice and scapegoating, he made a few comments about Islam after 9/11 that are of great penetration. Girard’s considered view of religion was that monotheism was a great discovery, and that it had shattered the old violent pagan religions that were based on violence. All violence, for Girard, is mimetic, meaning it comes out of a conflict of wills over the same thing, where each will is focused on that thing because the other will is focused on that thing. Monotheism is the conviction, or discovery, that such violence is wrong, and that order depends on recognising a shared condition. All scapegoating and blame is a mistake. And so true religion comes, in the Psalms and Isaiah, out of the consciousness of the victim, the suffering servant. What was sketched in the Old Testament was asserted in the New. Jesus proposed an end to all violence, but no one agrees, as only he as the Son of God could follow such an exacting rule, and so he was killed, setting an example and asking for belief in the significance of his death for the sake of a rule that no one could follow, the rule to abandon violence, and a yet a rule we were commanded to follow.
In Rene Girard, ‘The Bloody Skin of the Victim’, in The New Visibility of Religion (eds. Graham Ward and Michael Hoelzl; London: Continuum, 2008, pp. 59-67), Girard told an interviewer that Islam is not a successor to Christianity but antithetical to it. Christianity is about the suffering of God. However, “Islam excludes the possibility that God could accept to suffer.” In another interview, Girard added the following:
For Islam, God is essentially power. There is a great distance between the people and the omnipotent God. … I would argue that Christianity shows us a God of non-power, something very different even from nonviolence. God chooses not to use the power he has but instead to leave humanity free. The question is whether people will be capable of exercising this freedom. I think the great mistake of Christianity today is to try to reassure people, to make things more palatable. They think that people want to be reassured. No. They want the truth!
So, if Hegel told us that Islam is worship of the One, and Belloc told us that Islam is Unconvertible, Girard told us that Islam is about Power. It seeks not to integrate. Certainly not to sacrifice itself. It seeks to conquer.
Coda
These are three truths about Islam that seem to illuminate it in such a way, perhaps, that we can begin to see the fundamental nature of what separates us from it. (Three? “Never say three!” I seem to recall reading in the Quran.) Now, there is something magnificent about unconvertible believers in the one power. But there is something about this that does seem to be orthogonal, at best, or antagonistic, at worst, to the lapsed Christian mind of the West. We are torn in our response, not sure whether to be Liberal or Christian. If we are Liberal, we have to tolerate, and hope that toleration will encourage Muslims to secularise or privatise their religion, as Christians have done, and accept a Liberal order. But, as Belloc saw, a Liberal order is a demoralised order, and it is obvious that some Muslims see an opportunity in the disarray of the West. An opportunity to establish the power of the unconvertible worshippers of the one. Now, I live in an Islamic country, or a mostly Islamic country, and there is much to be said for its lack of demoralisation: it has a robust, sound, civilisation: corrupt, no doubt, in its higher recesses, excessively strong in some regards, a bit chaotic, but by and large avoiding the insane neuroticism of Western administrative classes. Very respectable: so far, the youth that I teach are unaffected by the psychoses torturing the minds of Western youth — though with technology and modern parents and enlightened education there is the possibility of something bad happening here too. I remember that years ago when I visited Cairo, my friend told me two things about Christianity in Egypt. The first was that Christian taxi drivers used to paint fish on the back of their taxis; whereupon Muslims painted sharks on the back of theirs, chasing and eating the fish. The other was that, if we wanted to find a church, we should look for a vast minaret, locate the mosque, and then look under its shadows for the original small church that the mosque had been erected next to in order to overshadow it. I have no doubt that it is part of the mind of Islam that it rests in absolute succession to and has a right to absolute domination over the world which Christianity has formerly ruled.
By ‘Islam’ I do not mean actual lived lives of good Muslims, and I do not mean the politics of various Arabic and other regimes, and I do not mean Terrorism. These are relative aspects of Islam. I mean Islam as an absolute thing: as a historical singularity. This singularity is an idealisation of a sought-for establishment, a vision of perfection, and a justification for action: also, something which is, at root, a lot less enamoured of variety than we have come to be in the West in the last thousand years.
We may try to incorporate Islam into our many-coloured states, but Islam, at root, wants to incorporate us into its black-and-white high-sunned singular structure of power overlorded by the great god Allah.
One. Unconvertible. Power.
James Alexander is a Professor in the Department of Political Science at Bilkent University in Turkey.
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I remember seeing an interview with an educated Muslim politcal activist on mainstream media in the late 90s. He said that his ultimate aim was to get a Muslim flag flying high above 10 Downing Street. That interview really opened my eyes about their obsession for power in the name of Allah. They aren’t far off achieving that now, with so many Muslim Mayors in office and with the encouragement they get from the King, the former Archbishop of Canterbury and the liberal elites.
The end of this country.
Good essay.
And I think it is that raw, unapologetic worship of power that connects the political left with Islam. That’s why the left makes endless apologies for Islam’s violence. “Oh, if only we could be as ruthless as they are!” – I can almost hear the lefties cry. But most of them are actually cowards, so they prefer to admire Islam’s propensity to violence from a safe distance. But secretly they dream of chopping heads off with the same unscrupulous, guilt-free enthusiasm.
That’s why I think the west might follow the path of the Iranian revolution where the political lefties supported radical Islam and then found themselves lined up against a wall in front of the execution squads after Islam took over. Do these numpties like Angela Rayner really think an Islamic government would not dump them? Do the rainbow people really think they won’t be thrown off from the top of multi-story car parks?
The older I am the more I realize there are only two options: Christ or not-Christ. And the not-Christ option an extremely unpleasant way to destruction via an intolerant, hostile, violent totalitarian terror state.
SPOT ON !
Brilliant comment.
Didn’t the Tories first start to invite the Islamic migrants to take advantage of cheap Labour for their rich party donors business interests? That’s how it was around my town anyway. The industrialists knew they would not be living next to them in shires. Meanwhile Labour was dead against the cheap Labour migration back in the 50s and 60s but they did see the potential of votes for their party a couple of decades later. The Tories are no better than Labour on this issue and have never seriously sought to halt mass Islamic migration or any immigration for that matter.
At this moment in time it would seem, (as happens whilst watching a well matched Boxing contest, you get a sense that your preferred contestant is not going to win) that the “I” has the upper hand over the “C” with all our so called leaders ushering it into the very fabric of our lives !
From what I have learned about Islam over the past couple of decades (enforced learning, since I wasn’t in the least bit interested) it is solely about CONTROL.
Control of the individual; control of the family; control of the population; control of the country.
Do not think for yourself. Do not question. Do as you are told. Conform. Submit.
It seems to me that that is exactly what the Globalists/Governing Elite in Europe want as well for their populations.
And that, in turn, is probably why they are so keen to Islamise Europe. They presumably think they will be safe ….. which is exactly what the frog thought when he carried the scorpion across the river.
Correct.
And the aim of communism was the same: control.
Force, coerce, dictate, mandate, regulate, subjugate, by whatever means necessary. Ultimately reduce man into a cross between an obedient animal and a robot (but even the animal is a compromise as it can resist.)
Compare this with Christ: there is not a single example of Christ even healing someone against their will. None.
The aim of communism was an anarchist, communal paradise were oppression had been eliminated together with the state which just existed to implement it. Marx envisioned that this would happen in industrialized countries through an uprising of the masses of impoverished factory workers. But the country the communist really managed to take control of was a vast, rural backwater mostly populated by uneducated peasants — Russia. This begat the so-called real-world socialism where the communist intelligentsia had to transform real-world society into Marxist utopia by intentional, planned actions, first and foremost, modernization and industrialization and – more theory than practice – equal rights for all instead of different privileges based on birthright.
The way I see it, from my enforced studies of Marxism, back when I grew up in Eastern Europe: Marx was a reasonably good analyst of the economic conditions of capitalism. As a political thinker, he was awful. In all honesty, his political views are extremely obscure and border on esoteric mysticism. Try to read one of his political writings. I tried. I listened to university lecturers trying to explain them. It really is a mess. Lenin and the Bolshevik movement grew out of the chaos of World War I. They weren’t by any stretch of imagination as popular as they later claimed, but they had one distinguishing feature over all the other parties and movements: they were absolutely, unapologetically ruthless. They didn’t hesitate to use terror. They acquired power through a political coup and then they terrorized and exterminated everyone who opposed them. Ultimately what was their aim? Well, the advertised aim, the communist utopia, was of course, just a smokescreen, a bait for the masses. But there were a few people, even then but certainly later who realized: the aim was totalitarian control. Nothing else. The rest was just bullshit to cover up their aim. “You recognize the… Read more »
People’s true motivations can be conjectured, although I don’t really understand why this is such a popular sport, but never known. Communism is the name of the Marxist end-state, after the revolution had happened and oppression had been eliminated. Nobody ever claimed to have reached that.
So-called real-world socialism (term I made up from the German real existierender Sozialimus) was just supposed to be a method to achieve that. As the idea was that trained intellectuals would transform the existing society into the utopian end state by following carefully laid-out plans against the opposition of large parts of the people who first had to be schooled appropriately to “see the light”, it necessitated totalitarian control.
Part of the deception was that totalitarian control was just a method to achieve the aim (the utopia).
A few people realized that it wasn’t the method, it was the aim.
With regard to people’s true motivations, as Jung put it: if you want to understand the real – as opposed to advertised – aim of people, look at the results of their actions. Not what they say but what the end result is.
Submission.
The American missionary Samuel Zwemer only ever made a handful of converts while working for years in Egypt in the early 20th century.
But now… apparently there is a lot of conversions happening to muslims. They’re having dreams and visions of Jesus. Isn’t that a miracle?
Zaitun, 1970-72, millions saw the apparition of Mary, on top of the cupola of a church which stands where the holy family lived after fleeing Egypt. Thousands of photos and videos, extensive investigations, no explanations.
Not surprising, since the Islamic penalty for apostasy is death.
Also, the Coptic Christians of Egypt, who were there long before Islam, have been forced to be the lowest Slave Caste: rubbish collectors and sewage disposal workers for the Muslims, as are Christians in the Indian Subcontinent.
“Every brick in Pakistan is made by a Christian Slave.”
1) ALLAH IS NOT GOD. “Allah” is not an Arabic word. It is a Sanskrit word for “KALI-ALLAH”, the Giant Moon Spider Goddess of Death, and the Black Cube of Mecca was built directly upon the foundations of a Hindu Temple to Kali-Allah (also called Durga), the apsidal foundations of which can still be seen today, projecting from one side of the Kaaba. 2) All the so-called Islamic rituals of dressing up in white robes, running in a counter-clockwise direction around the Black Cube, stopping each time to kiss the Black Meteorite “goddess” embedded in a disgusting vulva-shaped silver setting, cleansing rituals, etc. are all derived from Hinduism. The “pillar” representing Satan the Muslims throw stones at represents a Hindu Lingam. 3) The Koran was written by the Yemeni Jewish First Wife of Mohammed, based entirely upon the Jewish Talmud, though Mohammed never knew it, because he was illiterate. Islam was created by Hebrews as a Proxy Army to destroy Christianity, while deflecting attention away from Hebrews. The Jews need to wake up, and stop their disgusting “ritual copulation with the goddess Shekhina”, called “davening”, at the Wailing Wall, as they stick magical bits of paper into the cracks of… Read more »
I don’t think I agree with that but I do like the story.
You don’t have to agree. But I hope you will think about it.
History is not my strong suit. For instance, I didn’t even know that many Nazis evaded justice after their defeat in 1945 by fleeing to Muslim countries and subsequently converting to Islam. If you’re not like me, and are partial to a bit of in-depth reading of history, here’s part 3 of the series I’ve been sharing which looks at the alliance of Nazis and Muslims, among other things. This part focuses on the war on Christianity; ”In my first two articles, I covered how the Nazis allied themselves with Islam to destroy Israel and the Jews as well as the West, and separately how the Soviet communists also allied themselves with Islam to destroy Israel and the Jews as well as the West. But there is a critical part of the story very few historians have covered enough, and certainly not at all over the past 22 months, and that is the Nazi-Islamic war against Christianity, Judeo-Christianity and G-D. This article will focus on one man’s mission to lead the destruction of the Judeo-Christian world, and the alliances he and like-minded ideologues like him formed in order to realize it. The war and the pro Palestine movement isn’t just… Read more »
There is no such thing as “Judeo-Christianity”, as any honest Jewish Rabbi will tell you.
There is “Judeo-Islam”, Islam being a branch of Judaism, created in secret as such.
And dragging in the jaded old Nazis, again & again & again, is a typical deflection.
And the Nazis didn’t flee to Muslim countries.
They fled to their planned new homeland called “Andinia” in South America, as did Illuminati Agent Hitler, after faking his own death. A very old trick of the desert tribe, even as far back as Masada.
Wrong ( again )! There’s evidence using multiple sources all over the place, even films about this on YouTube, so go knock yourself out; ”CHILLING details of a secret army of Nazis emigrating to the Middle East after the Second World War to become the nucleus of an Arab-led force to crush Israel have been revealed in Germany. Intelligence officers, SS generals, propaganda specialists and even Holocaust functionaries went to Egypt after the collapse of the Third Reich to continue to persecute Jews. Geraldine Schwarz, who has made a film on the subject called Exile Nazi: The Promise of the Orient, said the covert recruitment drive was the brainchild of Egypt’s King Farouk I.” https://www.scotsman.com/news/world/revealed-the-middle-easts-secret-army-of-nazis-1512181 ”Alois Brunner, Franz Stangl, Gustav Wagner, Aribert Heim – all of them Nazi monsters who deserved the worst of punishments. But these men were just four of the many war criminals of the Holocaust who found refuge in Syria and Egypt after escaping justice following the Second World War. Whether it was aiding the missile programme of Egypt’s leader Gamal Abdel Nasser, or advising the Syria’s Assad regime on torture, many proved to be useful. But there were many other, less talented, apparatchiks who simply benefited from the Middle East’s dictatorial… Read more »
”CHILLING details of a secret army of Nazis emigrating to the Middle East” — (scary! Cue the “Jaws” theme tune)
…later turns out to be “Dozens of Nazis”.
A rather small “army”, don’t you think?
“And the Nazis didn’t flee to Muslim countries.” Et voilà!
Consider yourself refuted, X2. 🤷♀️
Suck it up, Buttercup.😏
Gosh, yes, I neglected The Dozen Nazis.
However, the vast majority went to Andinia, along with Hitler & Eva Braun.
This is happening because of dear friends in Israel still try to recruit all of the world to settle their territorial petty disputes in this area. They know that hatred for Germans has been drilled into Western populations since 1914 (including the German population since 1945) and try to exploit this fact for their own benefit.
This overlaps with the fact that Hitler is very popular in muslim countries because he’s considered to be “the guy who stood up to the Jews” (albeit for completely different reasons and coming from a completely different angle, namely, the German anti-semitism of the 19th century).
Here is a historical research article by the Heroic Jewish Canadian researcher Henry Makow, PhD, that you may find of interest. There are many others on his website, which you can access by typing in “Hitler was an Illuminati Agent” in his search box. There is also an article by an Argentinian researcher about Andinia, entitled “Zionists Set Their Sights on Patagonia”.
How Hitler Sabotaged Nazi War Effort – henrymakow.com
Well, “mildly entertaining.” To single out one point, the German offensive in Russia 1943 didn’t fail, it was called off by Hitler to counter the Allied invasion of Sicily.
If Austrian Hitler had been a true patriot, he would have worked hard to build Germany into a great nation, instead of invading 20 other countries to start WW2, sabotaging the German military in the wars he started, then faking his own death and sneaking off to Andinia with Eva Braun, and watching from his safe bolthole while the German People were utterly destroyed.
His mission accomplished.
‘German researcher Roman Töppel can be considered as the first one who cleared up this mess and misunderstandings. He studied Manstein’s private war diary and Hitler‘s conferences with his generals. All this info is summarized in his book Kursk 1943: The Greatest Battle of the Second World War’ ‘The major Soviet offensive, launched on 12 July 1943 (Operation Kutuzov), had made deep penetrations into the boundary of the 9th Army and 2nd Panzer Army. This meant that the divisions of the 9th Army, panzer divisions foremost, had to be redeployed to counter this new Soviet threat and therefore the Operation Citadel in the northern sector had to be abandoned altogether.’ ‘In reality, not a single unit was actually deployed from the Eastern Front to Italy during the following two weeks. Only when the Italian dictator Benito Mussolini was ousted on 25 July 1943, did Hitler see the need for action and had the Leibstandarte SS Adolf Hitler transferred to Italy (without its heavy weapons). The division, however, was not to be employed against the Anglo-American forces on Sicily or in southern Italy. Instead it was tasked with securing the key transport route through the Brenner Pass….. So, why did Hitler, in the presence… Read more »
If you trust a German post-1945 “researcher” on anything about the second world war, you might as well ask Josef Stalin to summarize the advantages of private enterprises competing in an open market. The statement I made is consistent with the Wikpedia article on the topic which is usually already bad enough but at least aims presents the Anglo-Saxon standpoint objectively.
One should also note that Töppel’s text is – classic “post-modern” pseudohistory – a bunch of speculations about Hitler’s hidden motives behind his documented actions and that he claims to have used the diary of someone who was supposedly completely unaware of these hidden motivations as source for his own speculations.
This is also irrelevant in the given context, namely, the claim (from the text linked-to by Heretic) that Operation Citadel was set up to fail by Hitler because he was secretly acting on behalf of the enemies of Germany.
Wrong! But don’t take my word for it, go do your own search. Denialist!
”What is all of this about being Judeo-Christian? How can someone be a Jew and a Christian at the same time? And why would a Christian be a Jew? These are all good questions, and they each have a good answer.
What’s in a Name?
If you are a Christian, your faith is based upon the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and the Scriptures surrounding them. Your Savior is the King of the Jews, Yeshua (Jesus) HaMashiach (the Messiah, Christ in the Greek). This is our foundation. This is what we are built upon.
The body of Messiah began with all Jewish believers. The disciples were all Jewish, and the first congregation of believers was Jewish, three thousand alone coming to belief in Yeshua on the day of Pentecost. The first believers did not follow a pope, but James the brother of Yeshua; and they were not located in Rome, but in Jerusalem. Believers in Yeshua were a sect of Judaism and they went to the synagogue and they remained practicing Jews, believing in their Messiah Yeshua, and this was all after the Resurrection. ”
https://judeochristianclarion.com/teaching-moments/judeo-christian-belief/
Nevertheless, the Christian churches in the west were pretty vigorously anti-Jewish during most of their existence and Jews routinely got expelled from this or that territory by the local rulers.
Eg, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edict_of_Expulsion
What has that got to do with anything? The denialist wrote; ”There is no such thing as ”Judeo-Christianity…”, I have refuted that statement. End of. There are multiple sources if you’re not satisfied with mine. Just because somebody doesn’t want to accept facts doesn’t make them any less factual, I’m afraid. It just makes one come across as a small-minded and sanctimonious denialist; ”Many of the basic beliefs and practices of Christianity have their roots in Judaism. For example, the concept of monotheism, the belief in one God, is central to both religions. Both religions also believe in the idea of a messiah, a savior who will come to redeem the world. In addition, the Christian belief in the afterlife is influenced by Jewish ideas of heaven and hell. Christianity emerged out of Judaism in the first century CE. Jesus, the founder of Christianity, was a Jew who lived in Roman-occupied Palestine. He was born into a Jewish family and was raised according to Jewish customs and traditions. Many of his teachings were based on the Hebrew Scriptures, which were the sacred texts of Judaism at the time. Christianity began as a movement within Judaism but eventually became a separate… Read more »
What has that got to do with anything? The denialist wrote; ”There is no such thing as ”Judeo-Christianity…”, I have refuted that statement. End of.
You haven’t. Nobody doubted that the first followers of Christ were all Jews etc. But the Christian culture of western Europe was nevertheless anti-jewish during most of its time. For the example I gave (I just picked that because I already knew it existed), all Jews were expulsed from England in 1290, were informally allowed to return in 1655 but didn’t gain legal equality with Christians until 1858. This means for 858 of the last 1000 years, Jews were either prohibited from living in England (for 365 years) or legal discrimination of Jews was in place (another 493 years). That’s not much of a judeo-christian culture.
Except I have, blatantly. But if all you have is straw men, because you can’t get your head around the simple fact that ”Judeo-Christianity” is simply a term to describe two religions which are different but have undeniable commonalities, then I can’t help you. Facts are facts, but keep on deliberately misconstruing my posts all you like, reality isn’t going anywhere, no matter how unwilling you are to accept it.
Even Margaret Thatcher acknowledged Judeo-Christianity;
”The truths of the Judaic-Christian tradition are infinitely precious, not only…because they are true, but also because they provide the moral impulse which alone can lead to that peace…for which we all long.”
Read the four articles I posted, and see that you have refuted nothing. Maggie Thatcher was just using that recent term for political ends, as pointed out for politicians in those articles.
“Read the four articles I posted, and see that you have refuted nothing.”
Stated like the true denialist you are. How apt!😁 Oh how it must stick in your craw, somebody getting one up ( 2 up, actually, but who’s counting? ) on a person as self-righteous and holier-than-thou as you!😇
Are you sure you know what a straw-man is? Because you are the one employing a straw-man argument here, and a badly constructed one¹, by pointing at the Jewish background of Christian faith nobody except you ever wrote about and nobody ever disputed.
Until very recently, legally until the 19th century and informally, well into the 20th century, Jews were not considered an integral part of the European population but usually distrusted and often, also legally oppressed aliens. Hence, Judeo-Christian culture is a misnomer as Christian culture was decidedly anti-Jewish for most of its existence.
¹ It’s possible to make the same argument for Islam as that also grew out of the Jewish faith, also considers the Bible, especially the old testament but also, parts of the new testament a holy book and shares a lot of Jewish mythology. If a judeo-christian culture exists regardless of 2000 years of Christian history because of this, a judeo-islamic culture must exist for the exact same reason. That’s just not particularly useful for the present government of Israel.
Are you sure you even know what point you’re trying to make? Because all I see is somebody misinterpreting my original post and creating an argument out of thin air. Go look again at the article I shared. At no point does the author refer to a “Judeo-Christian culture”, as if it were some sort of hybrid religion, or something. She’s using the term to refer to the two religions, and lumping them together, probably for convenience, because she’s acknowledging the commonalities between the two. It’s only terminogy. But YOU, and your rabid friend, have taken this completely out of context, despite my sharing two sources which clarify the meaning behind this term now.
You are a denialist obsessed with minutiae, and yes, you do indeed need to go check your understanding of the term “straw man fallacy”. You’re trying to argue against a point that was never ever made in the first place, all because you choose to misinterpret a piece of text.
Well said.
Thanks for giving me a new name to add to mine, which now seems to be:
“Heretic the Racist Neanderthal Denialist Bigot”
🙂
Well the cap definitely fits…😉
It does indeed, and I don’t mind a bit! 🙂
In addition to the three articles I linked in my post above, here is another, this one from Australia:
Is there really such a thing as the “Judeo-Christian tradition”? – ABC Religion & Ethics
“It may come as a surprise to many that it has a very short history. In its current dominant meaning, it is virtually unknown before the Second World War, only really coming into vogue in the mid-1940s. If we look at the peaks and troughs of the usage of “Judeo-Christian” on Google Ngram ― which is useful here simply as a heuristic device ― we can see that from 1800 to 1935 the term is virtually non-existent. Then, we note two surges in its usage, from 1935 to 1951 and then again from 1962 to 2000, with peaks in 1942 and 1992. From 2000, its usage begins to climb again.”
There is no ‘Judeo-Christian’ tradition | The Jerusalem Post
Should We Abandon the Term “Judeo-Christian”? | Reformation Church
The ‘Judeo-Christian Tradition’ Is Over – The Atlantic
“The “Judeo-Christian tradition” was one of 20th-century America’s greatest political inventions. An ecumenical marketing meme for combatting godless communism, the catchphrase long did the work of animating American conservatives in the Cold War battle. For a brief time, canny liberals also embraced the phrase as a rhetorical pathway of inclusion into postwar American democracy for Jews, Catholics, and Black Americans.”
The really dangerous group is the Muslim Brotherhood rather than the terrorists of Al Qaeda or ISIS.
They take a very long view and work insidiously for the same aims.
They are all allies.
Regarding the photo above of the Hagia Sophia, “The Christian Church of Holy Wisdom”, here’s what it looked like before the Muslims turned it into a mosque:
Look at all the strange faces the artist has drawn into the clouds!
Just like that painting of John the Baptist by El Greco— look at the faces in the clouds!
I was surprised to learn from a well-informed video that Mohammed may not even have existed (Jay Smith). He is first attested in the 9th century. There’s no evidence of him, the Koran or of Mecca (M’s supposed birthplace but mentioned in the Koran only once) in the 7th. A lof the material underpinning Islam, Smith argues, was edited, published and made available by Europeans in the 19th century! Koran, Hadith, Sira have the same status as the Gospel of Judas/Barnabas etc. The Koran’s Arabic comes from Jordan. … In contrast to neighbouring towns, there’s not one reference to Mecca in any of the surrounding civilisations. Mecca was and is in a waterless desert, a most unlikely place for a major settlement.
When I first read your post, I was extremely sceptical, but after looking at the link you provided, and some of the comments on his video, I’ve bookmarked it to watch later, because you never know— he may be onto something.
As for Mecca & Medina, the Muslims already had laid claim to those two “Holy Cities”, but then decided to lay bogus claim to a third, Jerusalem, as an excuse to drive the Christians out of their ONLY “holy city”. Behind Mohammed was his first Yemeni Jewish wife & boss Khadija, pulling his strings to manipulate him, and after her death, it was Yemeni Jewish Abu Bakr and his Yemeni Jewish daughter Aisha pulling Mohammed’s strings to manipulate him. Abu Bakr founded Sunni Islam. Muslims need to open their eyes.
Thanks for pointing out that interesting new historical research. We all learn from each other, every day!
Labour or should I say the Marxist party is working hand in glove with the Islamists, what the fools in the Marxist Party do not realise is that once Islam has the upper hand in the Country the Marxists will be the first to be removed.
“Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities. Thousands become the brave and loyal soldiers of the Queen: all know how to die: but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it had vainly struggled, the civilisation of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilisation of ancient Rome.”
W.S. Churchill
” How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries!
” Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries.
” Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live.
” A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity.
” The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property—either as a child, a wife, or a concubine—must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men.”
Sir Winston Churchill (The River War I: 248-49)
I’ve thought that the two things which maintain Islam are the fact that it is a political religion and that it fosters the restrictive practices of clannism.
Firstly, Shariah Law stipulates a lifestyle of specifics and that it should become the law of the land superseding all other laws. It has the threat of capital punishment to intimidate questioning. Secondly, family intermarriage ensures a paternalistic view of society and inhibits the kind of social change that Christianity has facilitated. Community Elders keep the old ways going and inhibit innovation or discovery by fostering nepotism. .
The West ditched clannism and so developed relationships of trust and competence. The genetic intermixing spawned invention and innovation. Christianity allowed free thinking and the science and technology revolution was born.
If the West doesn’t want to be overwhelmed by Islam it must strictly enforce the rejection of all facets of Shariah Law and preferably outlaw cousin marriage. Both would break the power of its momentum. It could be law that all immigrants must accept those two conditions. Of course, many muslim Brits have embraced these two reasonable conditions and have integrated well into Western society.
Islam is a stone age religion and will remain there.
It doesn’t surprise me that Dr Alexander relies on three Western intellectuals for his understanding of Islam.
I found that Mohammed’s great admirer and inadvertant accuser ibn Ishaq told me all I need to know about Islam.
Er no thanks.
If power is what you want, then Islam is a good model. It works on the same basis as emtrepreneurialism, in the sense the the goal is maximum subscribers. You can get there by efficiency or by coercion, but getting there is the goal.