More Cash for Wind Farms Near Towns As Net Zero Shift Stretches Grid
The Government is encouraging the development of wind turbines and solar farms closer to towns and cities by implementing incentives based on proximity to consumers. The Telegraphhas the story.
Renewable energy companies will be allowed to charge customers more for their power if they generate it close to where it is needed, rather than in sparsely populated parts of the country.
The scheme, to be formally announced on Tuesday by Claire Coutinho, the Energy Secretary, is designed to trigger a rush to build wind and solar infrastructure on farmland around cities.
The Government will introduce zonal pricing, with generators paid different rates according to the distance between their assets and consumers.
The U.K. will be divided into about half a dozen generating zones so that onshore wind and solar farms in the Home Counties could be paid more for their power than those in Scotland, for example.
Research by Ofgem suggests that making electricity prices higher in the South East, where demand is strongest and supply weakest, would incentivise solar developers.
They would be encouraged to buy up swathes of farmland in a region stretching from London to Bristol and up to Norwich and Cambridge for solar parks and wind farms.
A key aim is to halt an increase in ‘constraint payments’ – where wind and solar farms are paid to turn off their generators to stop them overloading the grid at peak times. …
Operators can claim compensation payments for switching off in order to prevent power surges. Last year this added more than £300 million to consumers’ bills.
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7941MHKB
2 years ago
Another genius wheeze promoted by His Majesty’s Secretary of State for Zero Energy Security.
And scum like Dale Vince and all the other profiteers fill their boots, of course.
It will be interesting to see how the old “Conservative” supporters in the leafy outer suburbs and villages like the noise and maddening endless shadow circuits of enormous bird choppers whilst they are working, together with the environmental destruction and sheer ugliness of Ruinable Energy sites will be there even when no energy is produced.
The Midlands and North have in the past had almost all the impacts of producing reliable and affordable energy for the nation. At least they had a bit of benefit from the jobs.
Yet again, Xi Jinping will laugh, as he opens yet another couple of hundred enormous and efficient coal and nuclear plants.
DrDan
2 years ago
Its insane to put these things and the transmission lines over productive farmland.
What a marvellous future that we all can look forward to, no food, no electricity, no cars, no money, are the immediate things people think of. But when the reality of the remainder strikes home, a quiet acceptance will not be the reaction.
wokeman
2 years ago
When a black out comes during a big freeze thousands will die. At that point I truly hope the likes of Dale Vince are strung up. However I fear more likely a Bolshevik type revolution may occur.
Revolution? We will be urged to ‘save our National Grid’ by switching off appliances we do not need – freezer, heating, etc…Then the PM of the day will be photographed taking a pint of milk out of a mini-fridge underneath his desk and will be forced to resign. A £100,000,000 inquiry into ‘milkgate’ finally reports 30 years later, by which time most of the populace has reverted to subsistence agriculture.
Solentviews
2 years ago
If the turbines are closer to towns then it won’t be long before people will see evidence of the many bird deaths these monstrosities cause. It might even cause a few greenies to wrestle with their cognitive dissonance.
I haven’t delved into the detail, not being a subscriber to the T, but it looks a dog’s breakfast, if it’s just piled on top of the current policies in which we can choose loads of different utility companies, all delivering their output via a common distribution cable owned by the District Network Operator (DNO). As it is, under the Renewables Obligation scheme, your provided might tot up the totals over several months and claim that you’re using renewable power – although in real time its down to the National Grid to sort it out.
Where I live, the DNO does not do utility supply at all (they sold their business off to OVO), and there are many customers of different firms on the same cable.
Is the proposed idea compatible with the Renewables Obligation, or are modifying it?
Jackthegripper
2 years ago
FFS, stop the insanity. Even a half wit knows renewables deliver low quality, expensive electricity. Repeal the net zero 2050 Bill and Climate Change Act. Make Britain Great Again.
“implementing incentives based on proximity to consumers” —–A Bribe. —If the cost and output of Renewable Energy (wind and sun) could compete with fossil fuels then energy companies would happily switch to renewables. They do not have a preference to go into the middle of freezing cold oceans and drill or to develop new drilling techniques like fracking to get to previously inaccessible fuels. They do so because economically there is no contest between renewables and fossil fuels. Therefore the only way governments can force decarbonisation upon us is to massively subsidise renewables with astronomical sums of our money. The simple physics of wind and sun severely limit their usefulness. They are part time niche technologies. They like other part time energy sources like tidal eg are only any good if the energy can be stored to be used later, but that technology does not exist and would increase the cost 10-fold if it did. It is true that the cost of wind and sun has fallen but that is mainly due to the massive environmental costs and carbon taxes etc added to coal and gas. This is simply governments interfering in free markets for political purposes. Without the continuous… Read more »
The Real Engineer
2 years ago
The problem is that wind and solar are inherently not reliable in any way, considering that electricity must be 24/7. Constraint payments should and must have the opposite too, failure to supply payments back to the consumer. Clearly wind and solar need to have gas backup, the easiest way would be to have contragcts which lump these together as “supply units” or some similar term. A supply unit then gaurantees so much power 24/7, and where it comes from is up to the owner. This present constraint system must have been invented by a financially illiterate idiot, but that is not unusual with the public finances these days!
And here’s me thinking you have to site these things where you get the best wind!
Down in the valley, close to the town,might not be the best place for them.
Secondly, you site them closer to the customer and then charge them more? Wow ,the green future is looking rosier than ever!
Indeed. Wind Turbine Installation Utilization Factor 400m up on moorland in a TAN 8 area N Wales is 28.7%. Meaning that the ratio of electrical energy output by a set of Turbines to the maximum they are rated to produce over a year is less than a third of what they are designed for. This is the deceit widely practiced when boasts of number of homes supplied are made. Yes, They might be for a small fraction of the year….the rest of the time …?
Utilization Factor is normally a commercial secret but I’d assume factors of 15-18% between London and Bristol. The turbines themselves cost the same wherever you put them; but the grid connection might be cheaper in a populous area, compared to having to install a 132kV line 20 miles or so to the nearest grid substation. So unless the public purse is opened even wider, there may not be so many erager investors,
RTSC
2 years ago
I very much doubt the Eco virtue-signallers in the south and home counties actually meant to have these environmental blights on THEIR doorsteps.
My sister is one of them: lives in a lovely part of Hampshire and wears her LibDem/Eco badge with virtue-signalling pride. But she campaigns vociferously against them in HER special neighbourhood ….. and was at great pains to explain to me why she couldn’t possibly be expected to have a heat pump in her house, instead of her oh-so-efficient gas central heating.
In other words, like many in Surrey, Berkshire, Hampshire etc …. a prize hypocrite.
You will find that most people don’t understand how energy works. They do not realise that fossil fuels are concentrated energy that provide energy all day everyday and are the cheapest way to produce energy. Wind and Sun are what is called “diffuse” energy, where you need vast areas of land to capture small amounts of energy. People seem to think that all we need to do to “save the planet” is get rid of coal and gas and replace it with wind and sun and lo and behold the planet is saved. ——Nope. You cannot run industrial society on part time weather dependent sources of energy. Plus you will often hear politicians and advocates in the media that renewables are now cheaper than fossil fuels. ——-Not true. Huge environmental costs and carbon taxes have been added to fossil fuels giving the impression that wind and sun is cheaper, but that is all it is—-an impression.
12 comments??????? C’mon guys. ———Energy and Climate policies are the single most important issue for the prosperity and well being of every single person in this country. Our standard of living is being wiped out by the eco socialists and even on a website like the Daily Sceptic only 12 people see fit to pass comment. ——-We are going to deserve all the impoverishment coming our way ladies and gents.
It seems that fewer people are reading and commenting on this site than before. It is a shame, but I have found it to be less sceptical on several matters than I would like it to be.
clivelittle
2 years ago
Welcome to the wonderful world of ‘smart meters’. Just another way of extorting money from Joe Public. Don’t meet customer demand, just demand (extract) more from the customer.
To join in with the discussion please make a donation to The Daily Sceptic.
Profanity and abuse will be removed and may lead to a permanent ban.
Another genius wheeze promoted by His Majesty’s Secretary of State for Zero Energy Security.
And scum like Dale Vince and all the other profiteers fill their boots, of course.
It will be interesting to see how the old “Conservative” supporters in the leafy outer suburbs and villages like the noise and maddening endless shadow circuits of enormous bird choppers whilst they are working, together with the environmental destruction and sheer ugliness of Ruinable Energy sites will be there even when no energy is produced.
The Midlands and North have in the past had almost all the impacts of producing reliable and affordable energy for the nation. At least they had a bit of benefit from the jobs.
Yet again, Xi Jinping will laugh, as he opens yet another couple of hundred enormous and efficient coal and nuclear plants.
Its insane to put these things and the transmission lines over productive farmland.
What a marvellous future that we all can look forward to, no food, no electricity, no cars, no money, are the immediate things people think of. But when the reality of the remainder strikes home, a quiet acceptance will not be the reaction.
When a black out comes during a big freeze thousands will die. At that point I truly hope the likes of Dale Vince are strung up. However I fear more likely a Bolshevik type revolution may occur.
Revolution? We will be urged to ‘save our National Grid’ by switching off appliances we do not need – freezer, heating, etc…Then the PM of the day will be photographed taking a pint of milk out of a mini-fridge underneath his desk and will be forced to resign. A £100,000,000 inquiry into ‘milkgate’ finally reports 30 years later, by which time most of the populace has reverted to subsistence agriculture.
If the turbines are closer to towns then it won’t be long before people will see evidence of the many bird deaths these monstrosities cause. It might even cause a few greenies to wrestle with their cognitive dissonance.
I haven’t delved into the detail, not being a subscriber to the T, but it looks a dog’s breakfast, if it’s just piled on top of the current policies in which we can choose loads of different utility companies, all delivering their output via a common distribution cable owned by the District Network Operator (DNO). As it is, under the Renewables Obligation scheme, your provided might tot up the totals over several months and claim that you’re using renewable power – although in real time its down to the National Grid to sort it out.
Where I live, the DNO does not do utility supply at all (they sold their business off to OVO), and there are many customers of different firms on the same cable.
Is the proposed idea compatible with the Renewables Obligation, or are modifying it?
FFS, stop the insanity. Even a half wit knows renewables deliver low quality, expensive electricity. Repeal the net zero 2050 Bill and Climate Change Act. Make Britain Great Again.
“implementing incentives based on proximity to consumers” —–A Bribe. —If the cost and output of Renewable Energy (wind and sun) could compete with fossil fuels then energy companies would happily switch to renewables. They do not have a preference to go into the middle of freezing cold oceans and drill or to develop new drilling techniques like fracking to get to previously inaccessible fuels. They do so because economically there is no contest between renewables and fossil fuels. Therefore the only way governments can force decarbonisation upon us is to massively subsidise renewables with astronomical sums of our money. The simple physics of wind and sun severely limit their usefulness. They are part time niche technologies. They like other part time energy sources like tidal eg are only any good if the energy can be stored to be used later, but that technology does not exist and would increase the cost 10-fold if it did. It is true that the cost of wind and sun has fallen but that is mainly due to the massive environmental costs and carbon taxes etc added to coal and gas. This is simply governments interfering in free markets for political purposes. Without the continuous… Read more »
The problem is that wind and solar are inherently not reliable in any way, considering that electricity must be 24/7. Constraint payments should and must have the opposite too, failure to supply payments back to the consumer. Clearly wind and solar need to have gas backup, the easiest way would be to have contragcts which lump these together as “supply units” or some similar term. A supply unit then gaurantees so much power 24/7, and where it comes from is up to the owner. This present constraint system must have been invented by a financially illiterate idiot, but that is not unusual with the public finances these days!
And here’s me thinking you have to site these things where you get the best wind!
Down in the valley, close to the town,might not be the best place for them.
Secondly, you site them closer to the customer and then charge them more? Wow ,the green future is looking rosier than ever!
Indeed. Wind Turbine Installation Utilization Factor 400m up on moorland in a TAN 8 area N Wales is 28.7%. Meaning that the ratio of electrical energy output by a set of Turbines to the maximum they are rated to produce over a year is less than a third of what they are designed for. This is the deceit widely practiced when boasts of number of homes supplied are made. Yes, They might be for a small fraction of the year….the rest of the time …?
Utilization Factor is normally a commercial secret but I’d assume factors of 15-18% between London and Bristol. The turbines themselves cost the same wherever you put them; but the grid connection might be cheaper in a populous area, compared to having to install a 132kV line 20 miles or so to the nearest grid substation. So unless the public purse is opened even wider, there may not be so many erager investors,
I very much doubt the Eco virtue-signallers in the south and home counties actually meant to have these environmental blights on THEIR doorsteps.
My sister is one of them: lives in a lovely part of Hampshire and wears her LibDem/Eco badge with virtue-signalling pride. But she campaigns vociferously against them in HER special neighbourhood ….. and was at great pains to explain to me why she couldn’t possibly be expected to have a heat pump in her house, instead of her oh-so-efficient gas central heating.
In other words, like many in Surrey, Berkshire, Hampshire etc …. a prize hypocrite.
You will find that most people don’t understand how energy works. They do not realise that fossil fuels are concentrated energy that provide energy all day everyday and are the cheapest way to produce energy. Wind and Sun are what is called “diffuse” energy, where you need vast areas of land to capture small amounts of energy. People seem to think that all we need to do to “save the planet” is get rid of coal and gas and replace it with wind and sun and lo and behold the planet is saved. ——Nope. You cannot run industrial society on part time weather dependent sources of energy. Plus you will often hear politicians and advocates in the media that renewables are now cheaper than fossil fuels. ——-Not true. Huge environmental costs and carbon taxes have been added to fossil fuels giving the impression that wind and sun is cheaper, but that is all it is—-an impression.
12 comments??????? C’mon guys. ———Energy and Climate policies are the single most important issue for the prosperity and well being of every single person in this country. Our standard of living is being wiped out by the eco socialists and even on a website like the Daily Sceptic only 12 people see fit to pass comment. ——-We are going to deserve all the impoverishment coming our way ladies and gents.
It seems that fewer people are reading and commenting on this site than before. It is a shame, but I have found it to be less sceptical on several matters than I would like it to be.
Welcome to the wonderful world of ‘smart meters’. Just another way of extorting money from Joe Public. Don’t meet customer demand, just demand (extract) more from the customer.