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DHJ
DHJ
2 years ago

The point Douglas Murray was trying to make was diminished by the childish insults. Is that the best debate on offer?

When Madeleine Albright was asked about half a million dead Iraqi children being worth it, she could just have blamed Saddam Hussein. She missed a trick there.

What does Mr Murray think of Netanyahu strenghtening Hamas as a means to prevent a two-state solution?

NeilParkin
2 years ago
Reply to  DHJ

The point being that the only thing on offer for several weeks now, in response to the eloquent, and learned Mr Murray is childish insults. Maybe talking to people in their terms will have a far greater impact than trying to talk on a level above them..

DHJ
DHJ
2 years ago
Reply to  NeilParkin

It sounds like you need to find a better source of information rather than sticking with those who feel the need to debase themselves. Try Haaretz, they have more balance than most.

NeilParkin
2 years ago
Reply to  DHJ

Thanks for the advice…

Monro
2 years ago
Reply to  DHJ

Ms Albright should indeed have blamed Saddam Hussein.

https://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/ukgwa/20171123123237/http://www.iraqinquiry.org.uk//media/231473/2003-02-14-fax-owen-to-rycroft-pms-speech-question.pdf

‘It is now known, however, that the ICMMS (child mortality) results for the centre/south of Iraq were a deception.’

‘The objective of Saddam Hussein’s government was to heighten international concern and so get the economic sanctions ended.’

Changing views on child mortality and economic sanctions in Iraq: a history of lies, damned lies and statistics, Dyson, Cetorelli 2017

DHJ
DHJ
2 years ago
Reply to  Monro

Thanks although that was just an example of where the excuse for killing civilians can be applied.

Dinger64
2 years ago
Reply to  DHJ

Since when has it ever needed an excuse? War is war!

Monro
2 years ago
Reply to  DHJ

There can be no excuse for the killing of ‘non participants’ in a conflict.

Common Article 3 of the 1949 Geneva Conventions prohibits “violence to life and person, in particular murder of all kinds, mutilation, cruel treatment, and torture” when perpetrated against persons “taking no active part in the hostilities.” 

As we have seen, in practice, this is extremely difficult in densely populated urban areas during operations against non uniformed irregulars.

It is, of course, less difficult during irregular operations against open air festivals attended by non combatants.

EppingBlogger
2 years ago
Reply to  Monro

Tell that to Hamas.

to be fair to all military actions, innocent lives cannot always be protected.

Brett_McS
2 years ago
Reply to  DHJ

It was very much an on-point and justified insult, speaking directly to those in the leftist bubble who arrogantly assume they know everything they need to know without having to go out into the real world.

DHJ
DHJ
2 years ago
Reply to  DHJ

Having watched the interview prior to the clip, I can see why it was edited down. He doesn’t do himself any favours. I didn’t know he’s an FSU director. Perhaps that also explains some of the selective reporting on here?

transmissionofflame
2 years ago
Reply to  DHJ

 Perhaps that also explains some of the selective reporting on here?”

I think the reporting here is reflective of the views of the site owners/funders/managers. I don’t know what Will Jones and Noah Carl think about the Israel business (can’t remember what they written, sorry) but Toby Young’s views are pretty clear so I don’t think it requires influence from Murray. Luke Johnson is also a director of both FSU and DS and his views on this are pretty clear too. They are all of the political right which provided a lot of the opposition to lockdowns but is also traditionally more pro-Israel than the left.

DHJ
DHJ
2 years ago

I was thinking less of influence and more of shared mindset which you’ve answered to some extent.

Steve-Devon
2 years ago

No net-zero, climate news links? oh well, maybe try this one;

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2023/12/22/old-king-coal-at-cop28-uninvited-guest-or-star-of-the-show/

While TPTB in the western world are taxing oil/gas boilers and mandating the end of petrol/diesel (ICE) cars, over in the real World annual world wide use of coal is at record levels.

China is being feted as ahead in the eco net-zero stakes because it has so many Battery electric cars (BEV) and fast charging points. But China also has over 3000 coal fired power stations to supply the electric for all those BEVs. It does seem less about going green and more about destroying the ICE car industry in the west and setting China up as the dominant automotive super power.

It is difficult not to feel that we are being played for a bunch of fools.

NeilParkin
2 years ago
Reply to  Steve-Devon

Sadly there are way too many people who don’t question what is right in front of them.

stewart
2 years ago
Reply to  Steve-Devon

That is exactly the play.

China makes itself rich and prosperous following the well trodden reliable route using cheapest, most available most reiable energy while supplying the west with all the rope it needs to hang itself with its NetZero fanaticism.

Triple pay off. They get rich, the west gets poorer and they get even richer helping the west get poorer.

Mogwai
2 years ago

So because a school quite rightly maintains it is apolitical it gets targeted by the fanatical Hamasshole Hate Mob and forced to close, whose noses have been put out of joint. Permanent victimhood for the win then;

”A primary school, which is the UK equivalent to an elementary school, in London has been forced to shut down over threats made by pro-Palestinian protesters. The threats came after parents had sent their children with Palestinian flags and political messages during a Children in Need day last month.
In response, the school sent home letters to eight families, where they wrote that “inappropriate comments made at school, including extremist or divisive comments,” would lead to the UK Government’s counter-terrorism program, according to the Evening Standard.

“In the light of escalating threats against staff and the school, based on malicious fabrications being broadcast by various media outlets, the Lion Academy Trust will be closing the school from 20th December 2023 to all parents and pupils for the Christmas break,” the Lion Academy Trust said about Barclay Primary School in a press release on December 20.

On Thursday, Barclay Primary School in Leyton was surrounded by protesters who claimed that the school’s request discriminated against Muslims, the Standard reported.”

https://www.jpost.com/international/article-779053

DHJ
DHJ
2 years ago
Reply to  Mogwai

The school term ends on 21st December but the school closes on the 20th “in light of escalating threats”, those threats being reported on 5th December. Forced to close?

Jon Garvey
2 years ago
Reply to  Mogwai

I agree wholeheartedly, but I gather the school was quick to fly Ukrainian flags when the war broke out last year. Perhaps lessons about keeping politics out of primary education altogether should be learned.

Mogwai
2 years ago
Reply to  Jon Garvey

Yes I agree that politics should play no part in the education system, especially primary schools. So all of those school kids who went off to protest in school time recently was just bang out of order and smacks of indoctrination. Many examples of similar brainwashing in relation to other topics, of course. The gender ideology tripe being an obvious one.
But in the story above the parents could’ve just accepted the school’s stance and left it at that, but no, the victim card was once again played and this is how a non-issue snowballs into something more significant.

Dinger64
2 years ago
Reply to  Mogwai

Islam is winning Mogs, and the west in letting, no, encouraging it!

Mogwai
2 years ago
Reply to  Dinger64

Seems that way, Dinger. I’m at a waterpark, on our lunchbreak, and it’s the first time in forever I’ve not seen a woman in a bhurkini, though the day is yet young.🤫🤭

Dinger64
2 years ago
Reply to  Mogwai

👙 🧕😂

huxleypiggles
2 years ago
Reply to  Mogwai

Crikey Mogs. Isn’t it a bit cold for a waterpark?

Mogwai
2 years ago

I’m sure British teachers can’t fail to be aware of the rising Islamist attacks on teaching staff over in France, so no wonder they want to de-escalate a situation when tensions rise and they’re threatened by a certain community. Don’t think there’s been any UK teachers killed by Islamist psychos yet but give it time;

”The increase in Islamist attacks in France in recent months has particularly affected the teaching profession. State schools have long been a symbol of the French nation and the Republic, which explains this focus by terrorists. 

Since the beheading of history teacher Samuel Paty in October 2020, who was murdered for commenting on cartoons depicting the Islamic Prophet Mohammed in a lesson on freedom of expression, terrorist acts targeting teachers have increased in France.

Schools have become the battleground of choice for Islamists, whose influence is growing among teenagers who ingest the rhetoric of jihad via a number of influential social media accounts. The aim is for these budding fighters to bring the battle to school. From there, everything becomes a pretext for stirring up controversy and demanding respect for Sharia law or Mohammed in the classroom.”

https://europeanconservative.com/articles/analysis/frances-battlefront-islamist-attacks-escalate-in-schools/

transmissionofflame
2 years ago
Reply to  Mogwai

Do the 6 downvoters think this stuff isn’t happening?

Mogwai
2 years ago

The usual motley crew of terrorist supporting, Jew-hating, rape apologists love all this stuff. They welcome it because they hate the West. Never seem to be able to scrabble a pair of bollocks together and comment though, do they?🔍🧐 And when they do it’s just vitriol and abuse. They’re nothing if not predictable.😴

transmissionofflame
2 years ago
Reply to  Mogwai

Well the thing is that you can take a completely opposite view to yours regarding the Israel business but still be concerned about the subject of your post above – the two things are sort of related but I see no reason why disapproval of Israel means you’d be OK with attacks on teaching staff in Europe. So maybe you’re being downticked for your other views and not specifically for this post – which is a bit disappointing.

Mogwai
2 years ago

It’s always personal though, have you not noticed? You’ve been commenting at least as long as me on this site. That’s why I have to laugh because if it’s a psy op it’s a pretty piss poor one.😆 Is it supposed to be having some sort of effect on us by now??😏 I will always post what I want when I want so the pettiness is water off a duck’s back for me after this long. I guess the idiots don’t realise that the more regularly they dislike posts the more desensitised we old-timers and regulars become.
Sucks to be them i guess. Imagine having that as a hobby??🤭🤡

transmissionofflame
2 years ago
Reply to  Mogwai

I’ve been posting since July 2020 and was probably lurking before then.

For an internet forum dealing with contentious topics with what seems like light-touch moderation, the standard of debate is pretty good compared to other places I’ve seen, but the Israel business has certainly divided opinion and led some to lose sight of arguments at times and descend into slanging matches, which is a shame.

A Y M
2 years ago

That’s part of the plan. Gaza has flipped the script and now it’s partisan rightists that are behaving like ignorant lovers of totalitarianism.

https://off-guardian.org/2023/12/22/the-year-of-the-mindfuck/

huxleypiggles
2 years ago
Reply to  Mogwai

😀😀😀

Dinger64
2 years ago
Reply to  Mogwai

“scrabble a pair of bollocks together”
🤣🤣🤣

A Y M
2 years ago
Reply to  Dinger64

Right here.

huxleypiggles
2 years ago
Reply to  Mogwai

Seconded.

D J
D J
2 years ago
Reply to  Mogwai

Batley teachers still in hiding. Huddersfield teachers sacked or paid off over Syrian boy being ‘bullied’. No murders yet.

Dinger64
2 years ago
Reply to  D J

There was a time I would have not believed possible some of the comments and headlines I’m reading recently… But, hey ho, times they are a changing !

Mogwai
2 years ago
Reply to  Dinger64

The sad reality is, Dings, our kids and grandkids won’t experience life in a society remotely like we did growing up. I grew up in the 80s/90s, and I know it’s easy to look back with nostalgia, our rose-tinted glasses firmly in situ, and I know change is inevitable but not necessarily for the better. Change doesn’t always equate to progress, IYKWIM…Are kids really better off nowadays?🤔
Anyhoo, enough of me being philosophical, I’m off to hit the slides once more. You can’t have too many wedgies on any given day, in my humble opinion..😳🧀🩱

Dinger64
2 years ago
Reply to  Mogwai

🤣 bless you! And have a very merry Christmas and wonderful New year 👍

Mogwai
2 years ago
Reply to  Dinger64

Right back at you , Ding-a-ling-a-ling-a-ding-dong-ding! 🎅🌲🍾☃️

WyrdWoman
2 years ago

Thoughtful piece comparing the situation in Palestine with that of Chechnya by Alice LoCicero on Substack, cross-posted by Diane Perlman.

https://alicelocicero.substack.com/p/is-israel-following-stalins-playbook

WyrdWoman
2 years ago

What did Richard Kemp call the IOF the other day, the most ‘moral’ army? Riiiiight. This article might disabuse that idea (‘power targets’ anyone?), as does the second by Jonathan Cook regarding 7th October.

https://www.972mag.com/mass-assassination-factory-israel-calculated-bombing-gaza/

https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/israel-palestine-war-media-ignoring-evidence-actions-7-october

soundofreason
soundofreason
2 years ago

Kemi Badenoch’s civil servants celebrate diverse role models without mentioning her” – A recruitment advert showcasing diversity in the Business department only used civil servants who run its race network and not its commander-in-chief, reports the Telegraph.

Not including Kemi Badenoch or Suela Braverman in the advertising is sensible. As Ministers it is expected that they will have brief tenure and will likely be replaced at the next reshuffle or change of government. They are each, as Robin Day once eloquently put it examples of a ‘here today… gone tomorrow politician‘. What is more concerning is that the advertising seems to assume that the civil servants have got their feet under the table for life.

transmissionofflame
2 years ago
Reply to  soundofreason

Not including Kemi Badenoch or Suela Braverman in the advertising is sensible. As Ministers it is expected that they will have brief tenure and will likely be replaced at the next reshuffle or change of government”

Maybe, but do you really think that’s the reason? Or is it because those two are not proper black/brown people because they are conservatives?

soundofreason
soundofreason
2 years ago

Direct answer: I would hope Ministers would not be the advertising ‘face’ for their departments or the advertising will need to be redone every time there’s a shuffle.

However, I’m also absolutely convinced that far too many in that part of the ‘blob’ think that, as you suggest, “those two are not proper black/brown people because they are conservatives”

To get back to the point – what the hell are they crowing about diversity for? Can they get the job that the government requires them to do, done? If not, they’re failures.

transmissionofflame
2 years ago
Reply to  soundofreason

what the hell are they crowing about diversity for?”

Bang on!

Dinger64
2 years ago

I’ve got no problem with euthanasia, on a case by case basis, Not one size fits all!

Dinger64
2 years ago

Why are birth rates falling?” – Countries globally, including the U.K., are experiencing falling birth rates. But what’s the real reason people are having fewer children,”

Aside from mother nature, who’d want to bring kids into this western nutbox?

Free Lemming
2 years ago
Reply to  Dinger64

Let me have a stab at this hugely complex question… Trick women into believing motherhood is unimportant and another tool of patriarchal oppression. Anything else? Nope, that’s pretty much it. Next.

Dinger64
2 years ago

“Guardian staff fear for their pets in work from home crackdown”

Ahrrrr, didums do it! You’ve know suffering haven’t you?

Dinger64
2 years ago
Reply to  Dinger64

If there was another war could the army fight from home?

NeilParkin
2 years ago
Reply to  Dinger64

What did Tiddles and Fido do before lockdown..? My cats, tend to sleep until I get home, then they appear from wherever they have been, and demand food. They are a bit shaky on the whole ‘what time is it?’ thing.

Dinger64
2 years ago

“Muslim migrants are destroying European culture, says Poland’s ex-PM”

Correct sir!

EppingBlogger
2 years ago

Welby knighted. Reward for failure. Just like Cameron.

Dinger64
2 years ago
Reply to  EppingBlogger

Wow, there’s no limits to hypocrisy these days is there?

NeilParkin
2 years ago
Reply to  EppingBlogger

I understand its an ancient honour bestowed on the bishop officiating at the Monarch’s Coronation.

Having said that, he is still a dreadful stain on the so called Church of England.

True Spirit of America Party
True Spirit of America Party
2 years ago

Why are birth rates falling?” – Countries globally, including the U.K., are experiencing falling birth rates. But what’s the real reason people are having fewer children, asks Fraser Nelson in the Spectator”

It’s almost like Gaia is trying to tell us something.

NeilParkin
2 years ago

Stick to trying to interpret the messages from Santa and the Easter Bunny…

A Y M
2 years ago

Signs of the move towards the globalist multipolar order emerge as US coordinated operation in the Red Sea collapses as nations only want NATO or EU coordination:

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/pentagons-operation-prosperity-guardian-falls-apart-spain-italy-france-reject-request

Spain’s Defence Ministry said it would only participate in NATO-led missions or European-coordinated operations – not ones commanded by the Pentagon: 

“We will not participate unilaterally in the Red Sea operation.” 

Italy’s Defence Ministry voiced similar concerns, indicating it would send naval frigate Virginio Fasan to the Red Sea but only respond to requests by Italian shipowners. 
“Operation Prosperity Guardian in the Red Sea has practically Collapsed as France, Spain, and Italy have all announced their Withdrawal from the US Command Structure for the Operation, with the Three Nations stating they will only conduct further Maritime Operations under the Command of NATO and/or the European Union and not the United States,” X account OSINTdefender wrote.