An Attack on Andrew Bridgen That Needs to Check its Facts
On many issues – lockdowns, Net Zero, free speech, wokery, to name a few – the Daily Sceptic and Spiked are usually on the same page. Links to its articles frequently appear in our bulletins. However, one area where, since early 2021, we have diverged sharply is on Covid vaccines. At TDS we have maintained a sceptical guard against the often overhyped claims of safety and efficacy put out by Government and other sources. Articles questioning them – often by experts in the field – have become part of our standard fare. Spiked, on the other hand, has stuck firmly to its pro-vaccine position. Not a single article questioning the Government line on vaccine safety and efficacy has ever, to my knowledge, graced its pages – though despite this, to its credit, it has (mostly) maintained a firm line against vaccine coercion.
Rarely has this difference been so apparent as in a piece this week by Deputy Editor Fraser Myers that can only be described as a brutal polemic against Andrew Bridgen, the U.K. Member of Parliament who has been vocal in his criticism of the Covid vaccines and was last month kicked out of the Conservative Party.
The article, titled ‘The delusions of Andrew Bridgen‘ and setting the dismissive tone with its opening line, “It can be tempting to ignore the antivax conspiracy theorists”, contains many errors of fact, as well as misrepresentations. Many readers, I imagine, will be left wondering why a website that they read for viewpoints not found in the mainstream seems unwilling to countenance the possibility that the Government’s line on the vaccines might – just might – be skewed by the vested interest it has in claiming the vaccine rollout as a big success, or that all the independent experts who have stuck their heads above the parapet to urge caution might – just might – be saying something worth listening to.
Well, be that as it may, what we have instead is Myers’ attack on one of the few MPs raising these issues that are clearly of some concern to a number of his constituents and the medical experts he’s in contact with. Perhaps it would have been better if Myers had ignored him. But seeing as he didn’t, and in the spirit of rational debate rather than name-calling, I will endeavour to respond to Myers’s characterisation of him as an “antivax conspiracy theorist”.
One of the difficulties in responding, though, is that not all of Myers’s claims are backed up with sources or evidence. This makes it hard to know what he’s basing his statements on, or even at times what he’s referring to. For instance, he mentions a “now-infamous Westminster Hall debate last December” in which Bridgen “reeled off a list of academic papers, citations and statistics, all purporting to show that the vaccines are doing more harm than good (much of it based on misinterpretations or perhaps misrepresentations of the data)”.
But there was no Westminster Hall debate on vaccines in December 2022 (though there had been several in previous months). Rather, on December 13th there was a House of Commons debate on vaccine harms, led by Andrew Bridgen, and presumably it is this that Myers is referring to. Exactly why he deems this debate to be “now-infamous” is unclear, as is why he describes Bridgen’s citations as being “based on misinterpretations or perhaps misrepresentations of the data”.
Myers clearly regards Bridgen’s claim that the mRNA vaccines may be doing more harm than good to be nonsense, but in fact it is well-supported by evidence. For instance, British Medical Journal Editor Dr. Peter Doshi along with Dr. Joseph Fraiman and colleagues examined the data from the vaccine clinical trials and found that, compared to controls, the Pfizer and Moderna mRNA COVID-19 vaccines were associated with an increased risk of serious adverse events of 10.1 events per 10,000 vaccinated for Pfizer and 15.1 events per 10,000 vaccinated for Moderna. When combined, the mRNA vaccines were associated with an increased risk of serious adverse events of 12.5 per 10,000 vaccinated, or 1 in 800. The authors note that these adverse event rates were considerably higher than the observed reductions in COVID-19-related hospitalisation rates, meaning the findings imply that among trial participants the vaccines were doing more harm than good.
Similarly, Dr. Kevin Bardosh and colleagues – hailing from the Universities of Harvard, Oxford, Johns Hopkins, Edinburgh and Washington, among others – found that for every COVID-19 hospitalisation prevented by boosters in previously uninfected young adults, 18 to 98 serious adverse events occurred, including 1.5 to 4.6 cases of booster-associated myocarditis in males. That’s more harm than good, at least for healthy young adults.
Does Myers deem Bridgen to be misinterpreting or misrepresenting these studies, or does he think these studies are themselves misinterpreting or misrepresenting the data? He doesn’t tell us.
Myers’s next objection is to Bridgen calling the vaccines “experimental gene therapy”. He writes:
Bridgen refers to the Pfizer-BioNTech mRNA jab as “experimental gene therapy”. This technology is certainly novel. Rather than using a neutralised version of an infection or a close cousin, the mRNA vaccines deliver instructions to human cells which induce an immune response. The successful deployment of mRNA in the Pfizer and Moderna Covid vaccines marked a major scientific breakthrough. But these vaccines are not ‘experimental’, as they have gone through clinical trials. Nor are they ‘gene therapy’, as they make no changes whatsoever to a patient’s DNA.
What Myers is overlooking here is that while the vaccines were approved for use under an emergency provision, the Phase 3 trials were still some years from completion. An open letter from more than 60 doctors and scientists to the MHRA in May 2021 spelled this out. They wrote:
All Phase 3 COVID-19 vaccine trials are ongoing and not due to conclude until late 2022/early 2023. The vaccines are, therefore, currently experimental with only limited short-term and no long-term adult safety data available. (emphasis added)
It is also of significance that the products were tested only under the less-stringent safety protocols for vaccines, not under the more-stringent requirements for novel genetic products, as the HART group explained in October 2022:
The U.K. drug regulator, the MHRA, did not carry out the toxicity, biodistribution and pharmacokinetics studies that are required of new drugs because of the political pressure to approve. However, nearly two years have passed since then and the MHRA has not set a deadline for the pharmaceutical companies to provide these data. The MHRA allowed the treatments to be presented as vaccines like any other when they are a novel class of agents, never before approved for human use despite the technology being around for decades (mostly because they have been dangerous and ineffective in previous human trials).
Myers’s claim that the vaccines are not ‘gene therapy’ because “they make no changes whatsoever to a patient’s DNA” misses the fact that from a regulatory point of view gene therapy products include not only those which alter DNA but also those which “alter the biological properties of living cells“.
This is why Moderna’s November 2018 Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) registration statement says that its “mRNA [technology] is considered a gene therapy product by the FDA”.
Likewise, the September 2019 BioNTech SEC Registration notes that “[In] the United States, and in the European Union, mRNA therapies have been classified as gene therapy medicinal products”.
Myers is wrong: mRNA vaccines are classed as gene therapy products.
A particularly odd point in Myers’s article is when he says that Bridgen is “inconsistent” because he claims not to be opposed to vaccines in general, “only the ‘experimental gene therapy’ mRNA variety”. Myers notes that Bridgen regrets taking two doses of the AstraZeneca jab, which he points out “is not an mRNA vaccine (it uses a chimpanzee adenovirus to induce immunity to Covid)”. He adds: “When a BBC employee reportedly died following complications from the AstraZeneca vaccine, Bridgen blamed it on ‘experimental treatments‘.”
Leaving aside the reference to the BBC employee (presumably Lisa Shaw) “reportedly” dying from the AstraZeneca vaccine (Shaw’s death wasn’t merely “reported” as such, it was found by the coroner to be so), Myers here appears to be oblivious to the fact that the adenovirus vector vaccines also involve using genetic material (in their case DNA) to ‘reprogramme’ cells to make SARS-CoV-2 spike protein. His description implies that the chimpanzee adenovirus induces immunity to Covid directly. But in fact the adenovirus is just a vector or carrier, like a box, into which has been inserted the DNA encoding for the spike protein. The adenovirus vector is the vaccine’s way of getting the genetic code into the cells. This is no less “altering the biological properties of living cells” and thus a gene therapy product than the mRNA vaccines, and Bridgen is right to place them under the same umbrella.
Lastly, Myers gets onto the frequency of vaccine injuries. “Potential” vaccine harms like myocarditis and blood-clotting are “incredibly rare”, he says, quoting ONS data showing that by December 2022 “just 47 deaths in England and Wales where the underlying cause was a Covid vaccine” were recorded. Gotcha! Except, of course, in the censorious climate that prevailed during the pandemic doctors registering deaths would be very reluctant to identify a vaccine as the underlying cause of death without some strong grounds for certainty such as an autopsy. Much safer just to write the condition that was responsible for the death, rather than speculating on the role of the vaccine in inducing it. A more realistic estimate of reported vaccine deaths comes from the MHRA’s Yellow Card adverse event reporting scheme, which has logged around 2,500 U.K. deaths. These are all deaths which those who filed the report (mostly medics and healthcare practitioners) suspect were due to the vaccine that the deceased had recently received.
Myers has a few words to say about the Yellow Card scheme. He accepts that by November 2022 “the MHRA had received and analysed nearly 178,000 such cards for the Pfizer vaccines, 247,000 for the AstraZeneca jab and 47,000 linked to Moderna”. But while these “may sound like large numbers”, he says, “we shouldn’t forget the size of the vaccinated cohort – the U.K. has handed out more than 151 million doses of vaccine and has double-vaccinated almost nine in 10 residents”. Let’s leave aside whether 90% of the population has really been vaccinated (more realistic estimates from polls and the NIMS database suggest it’s more like 75% of adults who’ve had at least one dose). The key point is that Myers doesn’t offer any comparison data to tell us whether 472,000 Yellow Cards for 151 million doses is high or low, worrying or normal. Similar figures for the U.S. indicate that the reported vaccine fatality rate is still over 20 times higher for Covid vaccines than it is for flu vaccines, even taking into account the total number of doses distributed. The same data also indicate there has not been any great degree of over-reporting during the pandemic as there was no increase in death reports linked to other (non-Covid) vaccines. In the U.K., the reporting rate for non-COVID-19 Yellow Cards actually fell by 16% from 2020 to 2021.
Myers states that “the overwhelming majority of these reports relate to reactions at the injection site or include things like sore arms, dizziness, nausea, headaches and fatigues”. This is true, and I don’t believe anyone claims otherwise, although Myers writes that “for Bridgen every Yellow Card is to be taken as evidence of serious vaccine injury”, though, again, no source is provided for this. He then quotes Bridgen saying that Yellow Card reporting represents “only 10% of the true rate of serious adverse events”, which seems to contradict his claim as Bridgen refers here to serious adverse events, suggesting he is distinguishing serious and non-serious events and not, as Myers implies, conflating them.
Myers does not dispute the claim about 90% under-reporting, which may be because it is on the MHRA website. It states: “It is estimated that only 10% of serious reactions and between 2-4% of non-serious reactions are reported.” However, it’s worth noting that MHRA has argued that this 10% estimate doesn’t apply to the Covid vaccines owing to the increased awareness of the scheme, though we have seen that that is not borne out in the reporting rate for other vaccines.
But we don’t really need to guess about this stuff as many governments carry out active monitoring via surveys of vaccinated people. The Israeli Government’s survey, for instance, found that 0.3% of vaccinated people (1 in 333) reported being hospitalised as a result of their first Covid booster, while a U.S. CDC survey found 0.9% of vaccinated people (1 in 111) reported seeking medical care as a result of their vaccination. A vaccine monitoring app in Germany found that 0.3% of vaccine recipients reported at least one serious adverse reaction to the first dose of the vaccine. The MHRA has never published the U.K. version of these data. A comparison of the Israeli active monitoring rate (from the survey) to the passive monitoring rate (from VAERS) showed that the true number of people hospitalised following their vaccination was 126 times higher than the number who reported it to VAERS, i.e., less than 1% of those who according to the survey were hospitalised following their vaccine reported it to VAERS. Other under-reporting rates in the Israeli survey (see examples in table below) were even higher, making Bridgen’s (and the MHRA’s) 10% estimate look very conservative. Note that these figures don’t have a control group for comparison to allow for incidental events.

If 0.3% of people who receive each dose of a Covid vaccine are hospitalised with a serious adverse reaction, as per the Government surveys, then after 151 million doses there would be around 450,000 hospitalisations following vaccination. It really is that many, because 0.3% of 151 million is still a big number.
Myers concludes: “[Anti-vax] conspiracy theories corrode reason, democracy and humanism. We cannot allow them to fester unchallenged.”
I think it’s fair to say, if Myers is worried about the corrosion of reason, he needs to start somewhere closer to home.
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What an arseling. Myers. Get lost. Excess deaths – 150 K have likely died in the UK from the stabs, 20 K may have died from Rona, not with fake tests. Honestly f8*ing sick of the morons. Pace idiot boy Myers:
Reason: There is precious little reason anywhere – trannyism, endless wars, climate fascism, the uniparty, the WEF, Bird Choppers, massive taxes to pay for LDs etc etc.
What reason is Myers invoking? The $cience? The unEnlightenment?
Democracy: Like the Rona Fascism, or WHO Treaties, or an election where the Rona stabbed dead/injured and ‘what is a woman’, are not discussed? Voting today and spoiling my ballot.
Not a single politician locally knocked on my door, no one distributed info on who and what they are, no one knows anything about them, no websites, no debates, we got 2 fliers – LibDems and the Convicts. That is it. What democracy Myers?
Humanism: A code word for Communism, communalism, progressivism, nominalism and anti-reality theologies of non-science.
I hate these people. Time for some physical violence. F-you Myers.
Also spoiling my ballot
Nobody knocked on my door either
Emailed the local Tory party for a comment on Bridgen, didn’t get the courtesy of a reply
I wonder if said publication has some conflicts in its PR/Advertising requiring this hit piece.
I would hate to be the first to suggest that Myers’ bank account and share holdings could be interesting.
Not to mention his thoughts on why obvious bogus attack pieces on very well established antivirals (that had been shown to be effective and had long safety records and were very cheap) were printed (but then had to be redacted).
Myers, O’Neil & Slater have all acted as government cheerleaders on vaccines.
Thank you for this excellent article, I read the Myers article, it wasn’t good by Spiked standards, more guardian with added hysteria. The comments were a far better read, but revisiting the article to keep up with the comments only gives Myers and Spiked the illusion they are on the right track, not the object of derision.
Fraser Myers and the rest are perfect examples of controlled opposition. They don’t know they are (I presume), they simply want to keep within the bounds of comformity that they can handle. They are Conservative party screed writers that ultimately play within the bounds of the party.
I stopped reading Spiked about 1 month into this BS pandemic. They make me sick now. All that pompous self regard lacking any true ability to self check. Total rag full off twats.
All they are good for is pumping up the plebs on the distraction psyop of the culture wars.
UK column had Normin Fenton on yesterday and he slams the whole notion of jab damage and deaths by repeating the simple fact that you were not considered “vaccinated “ until 2 weeks after your second jab. That’s when most people were affected but they are classes as “unvaccinated.”
AND
When is DS going to address the fact that these aren’t vaccines at all and to use the word sets the trap of painting anyone against them as potential “antivaxers.”
Then you have to wade through all the bollocks around that psyop too.
Excellent post.. straight talking.. I love it!
Good comment.
Strange that Spiked seemed to go down the tubes many months ago. The first sign for me was that Joanna Williams appeared to go ‘off message’ to such an extent that I stopped reading it. I was never a fan of Myers.
I blocked Spiked too. They’re just a shill for the establishment
The league of cowards and naysayers is still large enough for them all to feel safe, so long as they all stick to the same line! They can stand a few Martyrs paying with their careers to speak out but they do not want to go the same way!.
This is traitorship on a large scale, it’s eventual dam break will be equally as large!
They live under the sword of Damacles preying it will never fall! Sooner them than me, I prefer the peace of a clear truthful conscience!
This really was the most pernicious part of the MHRA boss’s recent speech (as reviewed by Prof Fenton). She turned the evidence of the worst damage ever produced by a new drug into crowing about the success of their campaign to increase Yellow Card reporting.
Apart from the lack of any research to distinguish increased problems from increased reporting, do you remember any such MHRA campaign during the COVID era to boost the Yellow Card system? I don’t – far from it. Everything was done to hide the reporting of any side effects. I don’t recall anyone apart from dissidents discussing Yellow Cards.
I simply assumed that Spiked is running short of a few bob and this was an obvious attempt to drive up subscriptions, it being necessary to subscribe to comment. Print enough lies and distortions on an emotive subject and you’re pretty much guaranteed that some people will take the bait.
OK Myers given that your towering intellect is exceeded only by your desire to traduce and challenge the likes of Andrew Bridgen and “antivaxxers”, please let us have a critique of papers such as these :-
http://vaccinepapers.org
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S027869152200206X
I’d love them to be challenged in the MSM.
Incidentally re the arguments over whether the jabs are gene therapy or vaccines, please remember that bigpharma/The RPTB were desperate to have mRNA jabs classed as “Vaccines” for two main reasons –
1.Joe Public would have baulked at the idea of being injected with a gene therapy (but are conditioned to happily being vaccinated),
2.Being a “vaccine”, they escape the more stringent regulatory requirements of being genetic therapies.
The upside of the cheat definition though is that more and more of us are questioning the so called benefits of ALL vaccines.
Or perhaps the downside, given that some of us (like me) are more wary of the other, more conventional products than we were before . Time will tell, but it could be that the pharma trade has shot itself in the foot.
Yes, pre-COVID I was curious about vaccine safety and I found it difficult to find high-quality arguments; instead I mostly found rants short on detail (Dr Coleman’s book), strange claims such as sodium chloride being a dangerous vaccine ingredient because elemental sodium and chlorine are noxious, and apparent p-hacking (the William Thompson case). Somehow since COVID this has changed. “Turtles All the Way Down” makes a good case, particularly in chapter 1.
Chapter 1 is a tough read for the non science people like me but once you’ve read it, there’s no going back. The authors make it freely available but I couldn’t make a link using the details in the book but this site (which I have no idea what the site is, disclaimer) looks to have an article on it with a working link for those who want to know about it.
https://nexusnewsfeed.com/article/health-healing/a-peek-under-the-shell-of-turtles-all-the-way-down-vaccine-science-and-myth/
Great article Will…to the point, and simply and reasonably argued…
I still wonder why people are so angry in relation to ‘anti-vaxxers’..
Why do they care so much, (unless of course they are being paid by BigPharma?) Why are they so invested in a fricken flu vaccine? One, that just looking around, they can see has been pretty useless…?
it’s not as if unvaxxed affect the vaxxinated? So more interesting would be if Myers could tell us why it bothers him so very much?
I can only assume that in the main it’s the regret thing..which they can’t admit….so they have to double-down to this sort of disparagement?
There is a petition I believe ‘Justice for Andrew Brigden’, if anyone wants to sign it…..
at Change.Org
Many ‘friendly’ blog sites out there (Guido Fawkes, Spiked) as well as tv and radio (such as GB News) show cowardice on this and other (2020 US Election steal, carbon zero) issues.
It’s a combination of prejudice, poor journalism, the wish to cowtow to retain access to ministers etc, but mostly the protection of their advertising revenue.
Fox News just showed how foolish that approach is, with its capitulation to Dominion and sacking of Tucker Carlson, as viewers depart in their millions.
They don’t understand truth always prevails, that vaccines/lockdown were deadly, that people are waking up to it and – most importantly- there are many, many more of us than them.
Keep attacking.
Spiked used to be Living Marxism. I suppose they just want to loved.
I sent them the occasional fiver for articles criticising net zero. They are off the list now.
Same here. Ellie Lee’s article claiming the jabs are safe for pregnant women – still up there, despite official statistics and any number of papers making it clear they are anything but, is a disgrace. Indeed, it is quite possible they have blood on their hands.
“…it is quite possible they have blood on their hands.”
Raging bloody certainty.
“It can be tempting to ignore the antivax conspiracy theorists”
I’ve never read Spiked and now I never will. It may contain some interesting material but any publication that uses language like this cannot be taken seriously. “Antivax” is a pathetic playground level word, and for any journal that aspires to scepticism to use the phrase “conspiracy theorist” just marks them out as idiots. Of course governments and big business in bed together with hundreds of billions $$$$ in play would never do anything dishonest.
Any enemy of Bridgen is an enemy of mine.
It’s generally a really good, old-left leaning publication with well researched long form articles and a spread of views. They probably deserve support considering 80% of what they publish would never be discussed in the corporate media. Myers is also a good writer, but this was – even for an establishment view of the Covid vaccine situation – an astonishingly bad piece of writing. However, Myers’ viewpoint is worth trying to understand and take really seriously. We – meaning regular readers of the DS and commenters on the boards – are a group of people only united by a scepticism of this establishment viewpoint, but differing in degree of this scepticism and not necessarily bound by any other point of commonality. The inverse – this establishment viewpoint – as with any belief system underpinned by the primacy of belief over rationality can much more easily present a united front, and is far more powerful, as is usually the case when the central belief is in belief itself. Whether we like it or not, this is a largely uncritical view shared unilaterally by politicians, civil servants, mainstream journalists, and at least nominally, the majority of the public. Even if the latter… Read more »
Well, while I’m happy we try to argue rationally with “ordinary people” I am not sure Myers or Spiked count as “ordinary”. Will Jones has done the hard work here, and good for him, but I won’t bother having anything to do with Myers or Spiked – “antivaxer conspiracy theorist” is just idiot speak or evil speak from a supposedly intelligent, sceptical publication.
I hope you’re right and that I’ve just become jaded in thinking Myer’s point of view represents the mainstream.
I completely agree – for me and most people who’d bother to read this, ‘antivaxer conspiracy theorist’ is nothing more than a smear.
On the other hand, I see some some commenters here responding to this no doubt deliberate polarisation by becoming increasingly (though understandably) angry over time, with no restraint in how this anger is expressed, and wonder if in some sense it just serves to smooth over the establishment narrative in the public’s mind.
We’re mainly chatting amongst ourselves here and letting off steam.
I’m sure Myers does represent the “mainstream view” on this topic but I don’t think he’s the person we need to convince (and doubt he can be convinced).
I’ve become lazy in my old age – I spent the “covid years” losing friends and family arguing with them, got called a conspiracy theorist and compared to Hitler by my work colleagues, am now waiting for the apologies to flood in – none so far. Meantime those people can FOAD as far as I am concerned.
That’s completely understandable and reasonable. I’m lucky in that the majority of my family are sceptical of the official dogma, though my sister (a former nurse) suffered a stroke after having the AZ vaccine, and my elderly parents had three boosters before they decided enough was enough.
Anger is completely understandable, and I definitely don’t have a monopoly on what people should and shouldn’t say. I just wanted to express a general point of view, and as a reply to your comment seemed like an innocuous place to do it – it honestly wasn’t aimed at you. Your response does open my eyes to how isolated and defamed people in the sceptical group are feeling though, and I worry about the effect my own anger about this might have.
Totally agree
I never take comments personally
It’s better to continue patiently fighting the good fight than withdrawing if you can stand it
I will express my views if asked but we tend not to socialise much with normies any more
It’s part of dealing with the utter madness of it all..I am also currently at the ‘angry’ stage…mainly because I can’t stand to see one more ‘rare’ death in a teenager, or one more study telling us that the vaxxines are or were ever safe for pregnant women….or the utter barstewards who perpetrated this getting away with it..and being helped by people who should know better, or at least be able to reason in the way you describe…
Myers’s sloppy opinion piece doesn’t tell us anything..gives us no facts, as Will points out….it’s really enough to make anyone mad…and quite frankly I’m sick of being the ‘good one’…they need to know we aren’t taking this shyte any more…..
“quite frankly I’m sick of being the ‘good one’…they need to know we aren’t taking this shyte any more…..”
I had a conversation with a good friend this evening, now red-pilled although I don’t claim the credit, and he told me in no uncertain terms that he is sick of wokery, political correctness, stupidity, minding p’s and q’s and saying things others might not like. I could only wholeheartedly agree with him. I will remain polite but my bluntness has gone up a fair number of degrees.
If people don’t want to listen they can F O.
That’s heartening to hear. It would be interesting (and valuable) to know what the motivating factors are when someone like this decides to leave the comfort of a herd mentality, open their eyes and start thinking for themselves. Are they unique to each person? Are there commonalities? Were things said by another person or group influential in their decision? I knew an ex Jehovah’s Witness, who after leaving started working as a psychotherapist with people who had left cults (physically leaving is always just the beginning). She explained to me that the main purpose of door-knocking isn’t to recruit (though that’s seen as a bonus). It is to repeatedly force the faithful into a situation where they’re faced with irritated people who are hostile to them. This has the effect of strengthening the view amongst adherents, already seeded in doctrine, that the world outside the group is rejecting and ungodly. I can see a more extreme situation happening in the US, where the cultural left are acting as foot soldiers for a deeply corrupt, nebulous regime (let’s call it the Blob) currently spreading its tendrils around the world, deliberately trolling and provoking the traditionally majority conservative population into rage and… Read more »
Myer’s article was a covaxx establishment hack job with absolutely no substance, just loads of pompous and sanctimonious handwaiving. I compliment Will Jones for this rebuttal, but in the end, it’s a waste of time. Making a reasoned argument may work with a reasonable opponent. A reasonable opponent, however, would have refuted Bridgen’s attempt at making a reasoned argument – that should have been easy if it was that ill-conceived – instead of sticking every conceivable Bad! Bad Bad! label onto it.
Yes, exactly. You’ve made the point I was trying to make earlier, but you’ve made it more succinctly.
What really needs rebutting in Myer’s article is the concepts of “anti-vax” and “conspiracy theorist”. If Myer’s sincerely believes that such things exist, he is a deluded idiot but he should be called upon to explain what he means by them. If he doesn’t and he’s just using them as a smear in pursuit of some sort of agenda then he’s evil, but again he should first explain what he means by those terms. Once he’s done that, we can look at his arguments and decide how to proceed.
I was debating the vaxxes a couple of years ago with a relative of mine, who I always viewed as intelligent and politically aware. She started some message with “I’m not anti-vax…”. I asked her what she meant by “anti-vax”. That was the last thing I ever heard from her, on that or any other subject.
I wouldn’t disagree with any of that. But then consider who the rebuttal might be aimed at. Will Jones won’t change Myer’s mind. Like you indicate, even if he doubted his own views (and the gritted teeth, forced tone of his article indicates that he might), Myers won’t publicly reason himself out of a position he hasn’t reasoned himself into, to borrow an expression.
For most of us, deviation from the consensus might lose us friends and family members, but not necessarily our livelihood. Myers lives in a world of narratives and opinions, where differing on a conviction so centrally held could mean the loss of everything that keeps him afloat. The same with most other journalists, and even politicians and civil servants.
But there are potentially thousands of other people who would read Myers’ article, read the rebuttal here and make up their own minds. If on the basis of reasonably presented evidence, a few come away with the feeling that there’s something up with the story they’ve been fed, I’d argue that Jones’ efforts have been far from a waste of time.
As Huxleypiggles has thankfully used the term I vaguely remembered but couldn’t really think of: Myer’s article is an obvious hatchet job with absolutely no substance. There’s no reason giving him any benefit of doubt on this. So, in order to rebut it, pick some particular glaring part of it and show why that qualifies as hatched job. Rationale: Bullshit is always much faster to produce than to refute. Further, due to it not being constrained by reality, it can be formed in a way which makes it easily digestible to the majority of people. A factual rebuttal of a piece of BS needs research which takes time and needs to get all the technicalities correct the BS manufacturer doesn’t need to worry about. This will usually make the text less enjoyable to read and more, possibly much more, difficult to understand. In the worst case, the only effect will be that the author comes accross as bean-counting nerd spending a lot of time on arcane and obscure detail information nobody really understands. Even in the best case, factually refuting BS is a neverending uphill struggle. Clear away a pound. Witness the BS peddler throw up three more tons of… Read more »
Excellent tof. Seconded.
‘All Phase 3 COVID-19 vaccine trials are ongoing and not due to conclude until late 2022/early 2023. The vaccines are, therefore, currently experimental with only limited short-term and no long-term adult safety data available. (emphasis added)’
The ‘more than 60 doctors and scientists’ wrote this in their joint letter to the MHRA in May-21. It is now 2 years later,
So, where are the Phase 3 trials results?
Does anyone know?
Will they ever exist in a form that is actually valid at all? Looking up the protocol, it appears that phase 3 is built on the results of earlier phases. It could be a bit like turning up on a jury in some kind of trial, after reading all sorts of junk about the case. The judge might tell you to ignore everything else you’ve heard before the trial, but who believes in that? Our brains are not immune to prejudice, after all.
Ask the American Department of Defence.. they’re running the show behind the scenes. The likes of Pfizer et al are just the front..
There will be no Phase 3 trial results because all the participants were unblinded after six weeks. Well there might be some results published but they will be worthless.
Nice article. Exactly why he deems this debate to be “now-infamous” is unclear, as is why he describes Bridgen’s citations as being “based on misinterpretations or perhaps misrepresentations of the data”. That’s not really unclear, it’s a standard tactic: Myers is sticking these labels onto Bridgen and his speech with the intent to suggest that He and all really knowledgable people know exactly why they’re appropriate and this is so self-evident that everybody else really ought to know it as well. People who read that are supposed to react to it in one of the two following ways 1) Accept it blindly to avoid admitting their own ignorance. 2) Go looking for something he could be referring to, based on the presumption that it must exist, ie, do his job of trying to refute Bridgen for him. Assuming it’s 2 and the outcome happens to be something substantial, the reader in question will have formed is own opinon on the topic based on Myer’s direction how it’s supposed to look like and thus, consider himself in agreement with Myers despite he’s only agreeing with his own opinion, which is hardly noteworthy. This Point finger at something, mutter some important sounding… Read more »
Clicked onto the article and thought I must have accidentally clicked onto the Guardian.
As Will states, Spiked is generally good on cultural and climate issues but seems to have a blind spot with the jabs.
Not sure why.
The article is remarkably ill-informed and lacking in basic knowledge.
I stopped reading Spiked when it was obvious their scepticism on most things modern hit a brick wall with Covid.
Most definitely more Guardian than what would be expected of Spiked Perhaps the article was prompted by Myers over hearing what he perceived to be; being put forward for a peerage, rather than what was actually said was; being pushed toward a pier edge.
Judging from this one and another recent article (the one on Diane Abbot’s racism letter), people @ Spiked are seriously rabid holocausters and go into rethorical overdrive whenever someone uses or even just alludes to The Sacred Topic in a way they consider inappropriate. Bridgen brought this load of feverish waffle down onto himself because He said Holocaust! (absolutely intentional allusion to He said Jehova! from Life of Brian).
Youtube have either deplatformed John Campbell for broadcasting an interview with Andrew Bridgen or at least removed the video. Have not watched the link below, but UK doctor Suneel Dhand explains:
https://youtu.be/ggdWTTzgOhI
Thank you for posting that. Interesting indeed..
https://rumble.com/v2l3cfk-mr-andrew-bridgen-mp.html
Worth a watch on Rumble….before it disappears!!
Thanks for the article. I’ve been sending Spiked a fiver a month and seldom reading it, so I hadn’t noted their views on the treatment. The payment is now cancelled.
Myers just cannot face the facts about all this, it seems.
This LobbyWatch.Org entry on Spiked Online’s biotech links is interesting, (though out of date and difficult to corroborate):
https://www.lobbywatch.org/profile1.asp?PrId=124
When the BBC broadcast a Radio 4 programme a few weeks ago about Andrew Bridgen’s speech in parliament being taken down from YouTube, the person they chose to defend Andrew Bridgen was Brendan O’Neill from pro-vaccine Spiked, despite Andrew Bridgen offering to appear on the programme himself to defend himself! That’s the ‘impartial’ BBC for you.
It figures!
Spiked and the WSWS (World Socialist Web Site) in complete lockstep on Con-vid and the jabs. An unlikely pairing.. or is it really? Who’s really behind these people, I’d really like to know..
I’d cancelled my subscription to Spiked a while back, following an article supporting mandatory vaccination for either care workers or NHS workers (or both – can’t remember). But I’d kept them on my podcast list and listened occasionally. This latest is just incredible. What an attack on a brave man who may or may not have got every single one of his facts right but is, to use that cliche, definitely ‘on the right side of history’ and has got a hell of a lot more right than Fraser Myers. I will never read or listen to Spike again. Somone else I know reads it occasionally – I’ll be letting him know about this.
Here you go Deborah. Will Jones linked this at the top of his article under (mostly).
https://www.spiked-online.com/2021/07/14/yes-care-home-workers-must-be-vaccinated/
Cancelled my subscription with them.
👍👍👍
I realised some time ago that Spiked’s editors were not prepared to “question everything” but continued to read some of their articles because they do have many interesting contributors. I hoped they would become more aware and discerning regarding the Covid “vaccine” issues. However, this article suggests retrenchment and has crossed a line for me so I will no longer visit their site.
Myers, like all the wilfully blind, are probably secretly bricking it and all this big talk about anti- vaxx nutters is mere whistling to keep their spirits up.
Unlikely people like the Olympic female sprinter, and Foxx (with quite a prosaic real name which I’ve already forgotten) are still dropping like flies. It must be seriously scary to have this stuff ticking away in one’s system.
There is always the distinct possibility that Myers, like Piers Moron, is another fat coward who was freaked out by Covid, and is still desperately coping about his weak-minded, fearful desperation to be “saved” by the glorious miracle of mRNA jabs. He’d rather attack anyone who questions the narrative than face up to his own credulity and character flaws.
A German professor has looked deeper into the basis of the WHO’s ‘1 million lives saved in Europe’ claim.
It’s totally bogus modelling.
https://www.achgut.com/artikel/warum_die_impfstoffe_keine_million_leben_gerettet_haben
I pay them a monthly subscription, and I commented that the article was disgraceful. Shame on spiked for never questioning the covid vaccines.
Cancel your subscription. I did over the Brendan O’Neill article – see reply to Deborah T.