Sargon vs Hitchens: This Year’s First Epic Twitter Debate 

Carl Benjamin has written a piece for Lotus Eaters on his recent Twitter exchange with Peter Hitchens, which we covered on the most recent Weekly Sceptic podcast.

 The article seems to have almost impressed even Hitchens himself, who acknowledged it in a Tweet that was more conciliatory in tone than previous exchanges.

The piece makes a Scrutonian argument, contrasting the organic historical development of Britain with the top-down imposition of liberal, or perhaps Leftist, utopianism.

We still inhabit towns and cities founded thousands of years ago, and this ‘magic’ is present in every winding alleyway and organic arrangement of its buildings. 

It is the product of a long history which was inherited and evolved to suit the needs of the people in it for the times in which they lived. This turned England, and then Britain, into a country underpinned by what Mr. Hitchens himself called a “deep magic”. He is again correct; there is a magic that runs this country and causes it to organise and order itself in a particular way in line with historic tradition. It connects the very bottom with the very top, and infuses every station in every part of this land; it informs how we understand the world around us and what we should expect moving into the future. We all live within the deep magic, and its presence is what makes us feel at home in our own country and gives sense to the reliability of daily life. 

Compare the average British city to the average American city, with its grid-line planning and equally-sized blocks, or the straight borders of an American state to the natural borders of an English shire. These are the product of the universalist liberal view that society itself should be rationally planned, including our duties and obligations to one another. No longer is British society an organic one that relies on how we feel about each other; instead, we are increasingly subject to a rationally constructed social contract in which we are told a priori what our rights and duties are and how they must be enforced. 

Benjamin also highlights, via his reading of Hitchens, why our politicians do not even understand the ideology they’re pushing.

The issue Mr. Hitchens raises is that our political class is simply not clever enough to understand what they themselves are and what it is they have been programmed to do. Every policy proposed by a Labour and Conservative politician is entirely foreseeable because it is extrapolated directly from their rationalistic programming — understand the code, and you understand the politician and all the outputs they are capable of producing.

There’s not much cheer in Benjamin’s piece, though there is a defiant optimism from the artist formerly known as Sargon.

Worth reading in full.

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Monro
3 years ago

“Nothing matters very much and most things don’t matter at all.” Arthur Balfour.

The only problem that this country has is democracy: the least worst system of government.

Double M.P.s pay but put in place much stricter constituency recall rules.

You never know, it might work.

stewart
3 years ago
Reply to  Monro

I used to be of a similar opinion, but I now believe the opposite.

Lawmakers should have 20 or 30 days a year to carry out their work. It should be voluntary and limited to a term. They should carry in otherwise normal lives so that they understand the implications and consequences of the laws they pass in the way everyone else does.

We have enough laws, we really don’t need many more.

Monro
3 years ago
Reply to  stewart

Defence of the realm is the first duty of government.

In the world in which we live, that, at least, requires a full time government.

But, yes, a great deal less government is undoubtedly the way forward.

Unfortunately, as we have seen over the last three years, the majority of voters are socialist fascists who believe in a large and authoritarian state.

Shimpling Chadacre
3 years ago

Having long considered the present and future state of this country, I have concluded that things will only start looking up when we begin using lampposts and overpasses more creatively.

Shimpling Chadacre
3 years ago

For the nervous pearl-clutchers, I was of course referring to Guerrilla Crochet.

BurlingtonBertie
3 years ago

Postboxes offer a less angst inducing alternative 🙂

Lockdown Sceptic
3 years ago

Whatever governments plan it’s bound to go wrong for you and me

Stand in the Park 
Sundays 10.30am to 11.30am 
Make friends & keep sane 

Elms Field 
Wokingham RG40 2FE
(near Everyman Cinema and play area) 

Zack Stiling
Zack Stiling
3 years ago

This interests me a good deal as Hitchens is someone who accords very much with my personal ideals, more so than any other living writer. Benjamin, on the other hand, is someone I’ve only ever been peripherally aware of, partly because I always thought that, based on his being an adult gamer, the nom de plume Sargon of Akkad and his decidedly immature comments from his U.K.I.P. days, he sounded like a complete idiot. I can see from the above piece that he’s not an idiot and appeals greatly to a certain demographic of young right-wingers. It’s nice to see him pen a piece which is Scrutonian at least in its language, but I don’t know what to make of it. The cynical part of me wonders if Benjamin is trying to manoeuvre himself to become a sort of ‘new Peter Hitchens’, though that’s probably unfair of me. Whatever it is, I think he has a way to go. I don’t see that the article offers anything particularly new. The first part seems to be a regurgitation of some Scrutonian and Hitchensian ideas, and the second part, looking to the future, is decidedly vague. The ‘conceptual separation of England from… Read more »

Nearhorburian
Nearhorburian
3 years ago
Reply to  Zack Stiling

Hitchens let himself be injected with gunk that was never about dealing with a virus only trivially dangerous to the vast majority of the population.

He is not an intelligent man, but he’s practiced at impersonating one.

Zack Stiling
Zack Stiling
3 years ago
Reply to  Nearhorburian

“A very important part of my family lives abroad… so I have been forced to have an immunisation I would not normally have bothered with.” I do not think it is stupid to desire to see one’s family.

PETER HITCHENS: I’ve had the Covid jab – and all it cost me was my freedom | Daily Mail Online

Nearhorburian
Nearhorburian
3 years ago
Reply to  Zack Stiling

It’s stupid to be injected with an obvious poison in order to see your relatives.

Taking the jabs also involved hin siding with tyranny against freedom.

A contemptible little man.

transmissionofflame
3 years ago
Reply to  Nearhorburian

A contemptible little man.”

Yes, contemptible to have been virtually the only mainstream voice to have called the covid nonsense for what it was, from the start, and continued to do so. Contemptible for having stood up for conservative values, for having predicted and written about the disastrous direction of travel in this country.

TJN
TJN
3 years ago
Reply to  Zack Stiling

Thoughtful post thanks.

It’s not fair to criticise Hitchens for getting stabbed – it’s a personal decision which in its essentials is nothing to do with anyone else.

I like the concept of their being a magic running through our society. Or it did. It disappeared with the covid response.

transmissionofflame
3 years ago
Reply to  TJN

t’s not fair to criticise Hitchens for getting stabbed – it’s a personal decision which in its essentials is nothing to do with anyone else.”

I think it’s eminently fair. Hitchens wrote about it. He seemed resigned to defeat at that point. I cannot blame him for that – he has been banging on about stuff for years that has all come true and he’s probably fed up with people taking no notice. But ideally he would have kept faith with the fight.

TJN
TJN
3 years ago

But surely it’s his choice what medical treatment he receives? I think he made he wrong choice, and maybe he does now too. But if we require that people have the right to refuse any medical intervention then surely we must allow that people also have the right to choose to have a medical intervention.

As far as I know, he wasn’t telling everyone else not to go near the jab. And he just made his own call. Surely that’s up to him?

Other than his making what I think was the wrong technical call, I can’t see any reason to criticise him.

transmissionofflame
3 years ago
Reply to  TJN

Of course it’s up to him but he wrote about it in a public column so it’s up for debate. I didn’t approve of his reasons. Someone getting jabbed because they genuinely think it’s going to save them from covid or save granny is a bit dim, but someone doing it because they want to travel and have given up the fight is a different matter. 100,000 NHS workers faced the government down and won. Restrictions were lifted in part because of resistance – even in China. That said, people have circumstances that I am not aware of – putting food on the table, seeing kids or parents or whatever in another country and I am not judging. But judging by his publicly stated reasons, I was disappointed.
I still have a lot of time for him. We all make mistakes.

RTSC
RTSC
3 years ago

No-one knows the entirety of the personal circumstances which might lead to someone making one decision, or an alternative one. You cannot see into people’s souls.

transmissionofflame
3 years ago
Reply to  RTSC

Indeed. All one can do is go by the publicly stated reasons, if someone chooses to share that information. I still see Hitchens as very much an ally not an enemy.

RTSC
RTSC
3 years ago

I am sad to say that overall I subscribe to the Hitchen’s view ….. the Britain (England) I was born into in the late ’50s has gone for good and the decline is now irreversible. The best policy for inspirational young people, who have no real understanding of what has been wilfully destroyed by the Establishment, is to leave and seek another land where they may live more freely and have a far better standard of living than they will ever have here.

I can’t do that. I am beyond the age where it is feasible and as a divorced female I simply don’t have the confidence to up sticks and start again somewhere else on my own. Instead I have relocated to a small west country town which still closely resembles the England of my youth and I will live out my remaining days here and do what little I can to fight back against the evil forces who have destroyed my heritage and are seeking to control every aspect of our lives.

I hate the British Establishment with a passion.

transmissionofflame
3 years ago
Reply to  RTSC

Decline may not be reversed in our lifetime, but I tend to think these things go in cycles. Where would you suggest people go, that has not similarly declined? Everywhere has its drawbacks, though I guess how people feel about those drawbacks will vary. I struggle to think of many countries that are less bad overall than England. Some solidly Republican US States maybe. Perhaps some countries in central and eastern Europe.

Sepulchrave
Sepulchrave
3 years ago

No going back.

Within, say, 4 generations Europe will effectively have become Far West Asia.

transmissionofflame
3 years ago
Reply to  Sepulchrave

I was thinking of the political direction the ethnodemographic one. That indeed will be hard/impossible to reverse. DS tends to shy away from talking about this – one taboo subject too far?

RTSC
RTSC
3 years ago

Look at our cities where the native British people are now the minority and you see the future.

Violent, effectively lawless and ghettoised.

That will eventually become the whole of England. It’s irreversible and unstoppable.

transmissionofflame
3 years ago
Reply to  RTSC

Yes I think you’re sadly probably right about that – certainly the irreversible part.

Violent, effectively lawless and ghettoised.” I think that’s only partly true and depends on exactly which groups end up being in larger numbers – though of course that’s hinting at the unsayable.

robnicholson
robnicholson
3 years ago

Fascinating article and makes me wonder why I pay for the old mainstream newspapers as I rarely get such insight from there.