Reuters “Fact Check” Claims Daily Sceptic Arctic Sea Ice Story was “Misleading”, But Can’t Find Any Wrong Facts

The international news agency Reuters has ‘fact-checked‘ a recent Daily Sceptic article on the progress of Arctic sea ice and found it “misleading”, despite not being able to point to a single incorrect fact. Its nonsensical final “verdict” noted that I quoted sea ice levels and stated that it was “not proof that climate change is not happening”. I did not say that it was, and the original article stated clearly in the second paragraph that “in historical and geological terms these changes are insignificant”. Over the last 200 years, I wrote, sometimes there is a lot of ice, sometimes much less.

Amongst those called to give evidence to the Reuters inquiry was Climate Science Professor James Screen of Exeter University. He noted the data from the EU’s Copernicus weather service, on which some of the article was based, “appeared to be authentic”, but claimed the article misread short-term variability and longer-term climate change response. One might wonder why Professor Screen couldn’t find out if the figures come from Copernicus. ‘Appears’ is a weasel word designed to cast doubt where none exists.

Below is the Copernicus graph which I included in my article on April 29th, and here is the link to the full report on the official site.

My story noted that coverage of Arctic sea ice was now very close to the 1991-2020 average, well above the 2012 low point and higher than 2020. According to the latest report from Copernicus, the 2021 March sea ice extent was just 3% below the 30-year average (March is the annual maximum extent of sea ice in the Arctic). In fact, since publication, the 2022 March level has been detailed. It is slightly higher than the year before and the seventh highest amount in the last 17 years.

I continued the article by putting the waxing and waning of Arctic sea ice in some historical context, noting that very low levels had been observed by sailors in the early 19th century. I noted that there were observations suggesting the ice returned in later years, only to retreat again. In addition, I supplied a graph produced by a group of Canadian scientists and compiled from over 25,000 records dating back to the early 1800s for east Newfoundland and the Gulf of St Lawrence. These also confirmed low amounts of ice in the near Arctic in the early 1800s, subsequent increases and lighter amounts from the 1930s onwards.

My original article circulated widely on social media. Professor Screen complains that the article mixed weather with human-caused climate change and then “cherry picks” the lowest year on record. The article does nothing of the sort of course, as we can see, but rather attempts to put recent trends in context with longer term records. As we often note at the Daily Sceptic, we know the climate will always change. Denial of this obvious fact seems more prevalent in those who seek to stop it doing so.

Reuters then goes on to quote from a 2018 NASA study that found sea ice extent is growing faster in the winter months, but that growth is offset by warming and melting in the summer months. It is said to make more sense to measure sea ice in September “because this is when it is at its lowest after the summer months”. Examination of the Copernicus graph shows we displayed both March and September figures for all to see.

Of course, Reuters wasn’t just trying to trip the Daily Sceptic up on facts, rather it was attempting to cast doubt on work such as ours that aims to place individual events in a wider context of climate history. Such work is discouraged across almost all mainstream media these days, when it fails the ‘settled’ climate change test that ultimately backs up the command-and-control Net Zero project. It seems every fact or event must be incorporated into a correct green political agenda, but this presents huge problems for any independent writer. Professor Screen shows some of the difficulties involved. Noting that sea ice levels have recovered since 2012, he went on to say it was “not an indication of ‘recovery’ in the sense that climate change isn’t real or has stopped, but just reflects starting from a very low base”.

If reporting a trend over a decade is dodgy, and drawing conclusions from any one event is certainly out, let’s see how Reuters puts this into practice with its own reportage.

In September 2020, the news agency published an article titled “Wild weather this year shows growing impact of climate change, scientists say”. It goes on to note that for decades, scientists have warned of such events, but had been wary of saying that a particular storm or heatwave was a direct result of climate change. “That’s now changing,” said Reuters. Rather than triggering an immediate ‘fact check’, the article continued: “Advances in a relatively new field known as ‘event attribution science’, have enabled researchers to assess how big a role climate change might have played in a specific case.”

On March 26th this year, Reuters quoted scientists who attributed the “disintegration” of an East Antarctica ice shelf to a period of “extreme heat” in the region. The March heatwave was said to be “off scale” by glaciologist Peter Neff. We investigated this ‘heatwave’ story, that made headlines around the world, on March 28th. We found it originated with Associated Press and was published by a number of channels including the Microsoft Network. An MSM distributed diagram was said to show a heatwave over large areas of the continent. Clicking on a caption revealed the following; “Simulation of temperature differences from normal centered over Antarctica from the American (GFS) model.” In other words, the heatwave tale was mostly based on a computer model called the Global Forecast System. Meanwhile, data from the Amundsen-Scott South Pole Station during the same period found no evidence of a heatwave from March 17th-22nd, bar a very small rise to minus-56°F on the morning of March 18th. Four days later, the model-simulated heatwave had also gone.

In fact, the Amundsen-Scott station was conspicuously not in the news last year when most media did not generally report that it had recorded the coldest winter at the South Pole since records began in 1957. Possibly Reuters mentioned this interesting event when it first became public knowledge, although a Google search fails to find any trace. It did however ‘fact check‘ some general commentary about Antarctica’s coldest winter on social media, finding it was ”missing context”. “These temperatures do not discredit climate change,” it said. “A six-month period is not long enough to validate a climate trend.”

Of course – hardly worth bothering about. Move along please, we will give you all the fact-checked climate facts you need.

Chris Morrison is the Daily Sceptic’s Environment Editor.

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Bill Hickling
Bill Hickling
3 years ago

Please keep up the good work against the group think Chris.

John Dee
3 years ago
Reply to  Bill Hickling

It strikes me that terming this sort of thing ‘group think’ rather lets it/them off the hook.
It’s more a cowardly general move by ‘academia’ (funny how that never used to be a pejorative term) to keep the grants flowing by whatever means.
One wonders what level of discernible scientific ability it requires to become a Professor of Climate ‘Science’, when the man’s analytical skills are so obviously lacking (or are actively suppressed in obeisance to the funding conveyor belt).

TheyLiveAndWeLockdown
3 years ago
Reply to  John Dee

Neo-Lysenkoism?

MikeHaseler
3 years ago
Reply to  John Dee

Group thinkers don’t do their own research, instead they just gullibly regurgitate the views of other members of their own group claiming they have some special ability to divine the future. Basically group thinkers are an echo chamber of delusional rubbish.

And to be just as harsh, critical thinkers are a bunch of intelligent people who couldn’t organise a party at a Number 10 press conference during lockup.

me too
me too
3 years ago
Reply to  John Dee

Your last line, in parenthesis, is gold!

czerwonadupa
czerwonadupa
3 years ago
Reply to  John Dee

I’ve always remembered reading many years ago an academic saying no matter what subject you were investigating if you put at the end of the title “In relation to climate change” you received your funding.

me too
me too
3 years ago
Reply to  Bill Hickling

I learned from an old uncle — he never said a bad word — to call these people “Sons of a dear mother” putting the word “dear” to soothe the phrase.
Years later I think that he want to mean a whore esteemed by many men.

Monro
3 years ago

Very well done. Many thanks.

Not just the coffee is now seething.

Londo Mollari
3 years ago

Let me post a somewhat contrarian view – contrarian in the context of Daily Sceptic anyway. The focus is on ice extent. But extent is a measure that takes no account of ice thickness, and hence volume. It is no longer possible to walk to the North Pole because the multi-year ice has disappeared and what remains is too thin. Scientists working on the ice can no longer camp out on it, but have to anchor ships in the ice and use that as a base camp. The US navy began measuring ice thickness in the 1950s – they were convinced that a new ice age was coming. But by the 1970s they had discovered that the ice had thinned from about 3 metres on average to two metres. One British scientist who went to the Arctic regularly (including in Royal Navy submarines). he wrote a rather pessimistic book in 2016 called “A farewell to ice.” One of the charges he made was levelled at the IPCC crowd – he claimed that in the 2000s they substituted figures derived from modelling for actual measurements, because the latter were too alarming. shortly thereafter his tenure at Cambridge came to an end.… Read more »

Free Lemming
3 years ago
Reply to  Londo Mollari

My point about climate change is, and always has been, the lack of historical context. Records go back less than 100 years as far as I’m aware, so on a planet that is 4.5 Billion years old the data we have is the equivalent of a grain of sand on a beach; that single grain of sand may not be representative of the beach – to know for sure we need a lot more sand.

My personal view is that is highly unlikely that humans are not having some impact on the climate, but the size of that impact cannot be proven by the tiny amount of data (in historical terms) that is held. Our contribution may or may not be significant; that is THE only conclusion that can be drawn given the data available.

Btw, I do think we need to be aware of the point you make in the last paragraph. People got here because they didn’t follow group-think, but it’s still an easy trap to fall into and something I have occasionally noticed in a small selection of comments on a few articles.

A Y M
3 years ago
Reply to  Free Lemming

Yep. If you or Londo want to go down that rabbit hole, here is where one starts….

THE DIMMING
https://youtu.be/rf78rEAJvhY

Londo Mollari
3 years ago
Reply to  A Y M

Yes, well, if Arctic sea ice has thinned so much, how hard would it be to artificially create a thin veneer? Not hard at all. It is a matter of public record that Beijing manipulated the weather for the 2008 Olympics, and the Russians did something similar for the (I think millennial) anniversary celebrations of the founding of Moscow. And the US tried to defeat the Viet Cong by deluging the Ho Chi Minh Trail (Operation Popeye).

RedhotScot
3 years ago
Reply to  Londo Mollari

And the US tried to defeat the Viet Cong by deluging the Ho Chi Minh Trail (Operation Popeye).

A report to Congress reported results as inconclusive.

Free Lemming
3 years ago
Reply to  A Y M

What are you taking about? I am saying that the lack of data means that there is NO rabbit hole to go down. It cannot possibly be 100% verified either way.

A Y M
3 years ago
Reply to  Free Lemming

Take it easy, I’m not making the point you think I am.
The point I was making that the thinning of the ice sheet has been attributed in my link to a man-made issue, but not the one the carbon Nazis give.

Hence the rabbit hole link in my post to The Dimming documentary.

Free Lemming
3 years ago
Reply to  A Y M

Apologies, I’ve definitely got out of the wrong side of the bed this morning – just chewed the ear off Mrs Lemming :-\ Easy for intent to be lost using this type of communication unfortunately. I’m aware of the chem. trails argument, but must admit to not spending huge amounts of time investigating it as yet.

My view about climate change is the same view I held about the ‘vaccines’ when they were rolled out – there is nowhere near enough data to draw any definitive conclusions (although the data on the ‘vaccines’ we did have looked pretty negative if people could be bothered to do some research). I’ll find some time to watch the video you’ve posted a link to, it does look interesting. Right, now off to try to make peace with wifey!

A Y M
3 years ago
Reply to  Free Lemming

Good luck mate!

John Dee
3 years ago
Reply to  A Y M

Indeed; let’s hope he’s not created a miniature, localised, but uncomfortable ‘climate change’.

The old bat
3 years ago
Reply to  Free Lemming

Sorry, it would be the frying pan from me just for using the word ‘wifey’ (shudders).

tom171uk
3 years ago
Reply to  The old bat

It reminds me of when my brother-in-law referred to my sister as “the wife”. From then on she never missed a chance to refer to him as “the husband”.

Londo Mollari
3 years ago
Reply to  Free Lemming

My point about climate change is, and always has been, the lack of historical context. Records go back less than 100 years as far as I’m aware, so on a planet that is 4.5 Billion years old the data we have is the equivalent of a grain of sand on a beach.

When geologists began re-creating past climates, this was just interesting stuff. But human civilisation runs on different time priorities than geological history. And if the climate really is changing rapidly that puts in jeopardy all of civilisation because it wrecks the regularity associated with agriculture.

Having said that, while I wondered if this might eventually result in a famine, I didn’t think a famine might become likely due to an insane desire to put Russia in its place.

Free Lemming
3 years ago
Reply to  Londo Mollari

Two points: 1) do not use modelling as any kind of reference – surely you’ve come to understand the fragility of modelling from the last two years? 2) the keyword you use is ‘if’. You say ‘if’ because the data is not there to back up your claims. That’s my point.

John Dee
3 years ago
Reply to  Free Lemming

the fragility of modelling

I thought that was overly kind…

Londo Mollari
3 years ago
Reply to  Free Lemming

I’m not relying on any kind of modelling, and neither was Prof Peter Wadhams when he pointed out the mendacity of the IPCC in using data derived from modelling than actual measurements.

And past records of temperature – deep time going back many millions of years – utilise proxies such as oxygen isotope differentiation. This has enabled the building of a coherent view of past ages – when temperatures varied quite a lot.

The present ice age period began to set in around 40Mya when the Himalayas were pushed up and the increased rock weathering drew down carbon dioxide. One thing stands out for me – in the age of the dinosaurs – before 65 Mya there were no mammals bigger than shrew. The climate was too warm to enable mammals to survive because of the problem of shedding body heat.

RedhotScot
3 years ago
Reply to  Londo Mollari

Prof Peter Wadhams.

Wasn’t that the guy who predicted the Arctic would be ice free by 2012, then 2013, then 2016……….

RW
RW
3 years ago
Reply to  Londo Mollari

One thing stands out for me – in the age of the dinosaurs – before 65 Mya there were no mammals bigger than shrew. The climate was too warm to enable mammals to survive because of the problem of shedding body heat. As I already wrote when you brought this up last time: You’re contradicting yourself. If the climate (what’s that, anyway?) was too warm for mammals to survive, then, mammals cannot even have developed, let alone existed. Yet, in the first sentence, you state that they did exist. You’re also using the terms wrongly. What you should have been writing was that homeothermic animals couldn’t exist because the climate was to warm for them. But homeothermy as means of body temperature regulation is much older than 65 million years. You’re also using the term body heat as if that was something which just existed but it doesn’t. In homeothermic animals, body heat can be generated in order to remain active/ agile during colder periods, something ectothermic animals can’t do. What you really mean is body heating due to external influences. But ectothermic animals, like most dinosaurs are conjectured to be, are even worse at getting rid of that. All… Read more »

Monro
3 years ago
Reply to  Londo Mollari

Measurement is also a problem:

‘The researchers involved in this study used new satellite imaging techniques to measure the thickness of more than 250,000 mountain glaciers around the world, for the first time, allowing them to calculate more accurately the volume of ice in different glaciers.’

‘The authors make it clear the lower ice volume numbers derive solely from a correction in the way ice volumes are calculated, not that ice has melted faster and thereby decreased volumes.’ 07 Feb 22

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41561-021-00885-z

John Dee
3 years ago
Reply to  Monro

My immediate thought on learning about the new, more accurate measurement of ice volume was: how can they then make meaningful comparisons to figures that must have been inaccurate?

peyrole
peyrole
3 years ago
Reply to  Londo Mollari

Simply put the onus should be on those willing to plunge billions of people into energy ( and actual) starvation. They have used the ‘99% of scientists’ and ‘settled science’ statements to force the sceptics to prove the opposite.
Yet actual experience and data does not back up their computer predictions, not once over the last 30 years.
The onus should be put on them. When they try to justify they rely on lies and ‘adjusted’ data. The emperor has no clothes.
Its the same cadre of people plunging the world into lockdowns etc over a computer generated RT-PCR test supported con.
What is the motive; what its always been throughout history, money and power.

Londo Mollari
3 years ago
Reply to  peyrole

I think we’re in a dilemma.

If I convinced you and everyone else on this forum that global warming is a clear and present danger you’d not be able to do anything about it without destroying most of the human species. Maybe this is what’s driving the Davos crowd. Unlike most people, including those who read the DS, the WEF crowd have no morals.

peyrole
peyrole
3 years ago
Reply to  Londo Mollari

No dilemma, there is no actual ‘proof’ with which to convince.

John Dee
3 years ago
Reply to  Londo Mollari

I’m unsure whether to attribute our now being governed by seeming lunatics to changes in the weather or to the sly introduction of GMOs into the food chain.

RedhotScot
3 years ago
Reply to  John Dee

We have lived with GMO’s in the UK for decades now.

The technique has been to randomly bombard specimens with gamma rays, until eventually, and by sheer luck, produce a result the scientists want.

Modern GMO produces the same result, or better, without the random nature and inherent risk that something else was negatively affected.

JohnOh
JohnOh
3 years ago
Reply to  John Dee

flouridation?

RedhotScot
3 years ago
Reply to  Londo Mollari

Famines are the result of cold, not heat.

The Sahara Desert can’t be irrigated with ice.

JXB
JXB
3 years ago
Reply to  Londo Mollari

‘And if the climate really is changing rapidly…’

Rapid climate change is on a scale of about 10 000 years.

No need to stock up the pantry.

Past climates can be recreated because we have data. There is no data for future climate so it is impossible to predict.

Those creating past climate states cannot understand or explain past changes in climate, so there is no formula to predict future climate changes based on current/recent past data.

RedhotScot
3 years ago
Reply to  JXB

Historic ‘records’ are at best, approximate.

Up until the 1960’s sea surface temperatures were still being measured by chucking a canvas bucket over the side of a ship, to no defined depth. The ship itself was invariably sailing along well trodden shipping lanes which don’t include the more hostile regions like the Southern Ocean.

Geological records are similarly ‘approximate’. One cannot possibly define to a fraction of a ºC what the temperature was in a desert, 100,000 years ago, from residue left in a rock.

The concept is the fantasy of ideological scientists.

Monro
3 years ago
Reply to  Londo Mollari

An excellent contrarian view.

Perspective:

‘Sea ice volume is an important climate indicator. It depends on both ice thickness and extent and therefore more directly tied to climate forcing than extent alone. However, Arctic sea ice volume cannot currently be observed continuously. Observations from satellites, Navy submarines, moorings, and field measurements are all limited in space and time. The assimilation of observations into numerical models currently provides one way of estimating sea ice volume changes on a continuous basis over several decades.’

http://psc.apl.uw.edu/research/projects/arctic-sea-ice-volume-anomaly/

So a bit of potential for hands slipping while spreadsheets etc are compiled…….  

Monro
3 years ago
Reply to  Monro

Problems with measurement:

Rather than providing mean sea ice draft, the considered satellite products provide modal sea ice draft in the Laptev Sea. Ice drafts thinner than 0.7 m are overestimated, while drafts thicker than approximately 1.3 m are increasingly underestimated by all satellite products investigated for this study. The tendency of the satellite SIT products to better agree with modal sea ice draft and underestimate thicker ice needs to be considered for all past and future investigations into SIT changes in this important region.’

https://tc.copernicus.org/articles/14/2189/2020/

RedhotScot
3 years ago
Reply to  Monro

Sea ice melts.

Net result on sea level rise.

Zero.

Net harm to humanity.

Zero.

Otherwise known as a Red Herring.

Monro
3 years ago
Reply to  RedhotScot

Arctic sea ice plays an important role in the planet’s climate and environmental system. Sea ice thickness is one of the most important sea ice parameters. Accurately obtaining the sea ice thickness and its changes has great significance to Arctic and global change research. 

But sea ice thickness is, perhaps, the most important climate state variable that is currently poorly observed, poorly documented, and poorly archived. 

So climate change discussions, ‘fact checks’, based on sea ice volumes are a bit pointless until measurement improves.

RedhotScot
3 years ago
Reply to  Monro

And the difference it makes is?

Zero.

No sea level rise, no encroachment on land bound ice as in the Antarctic because the sea cannot rise to reach it.

Sea temperatures could rise 10ºC, all sea ice melts and it would make no difference whatsoever to the land bound ice existing in temperatures of -40ºC.

You could raise atmospheric CO2 by a hundred times, it will never raise the temperature of the earth by +40ºC to melt that land bound ice.

Honestly, you people are complete nutters.

ImpObs
3 years ago
Reply to  Londo Mollari

Historically closed to traffic you say?

John Cabot, a Venetian navigator living in England, became the first European to explore the Northwest Passage in 1497

has thickness increased or decreased since 1497, and who cares.

Fingal
Fingal
3 years ago
Reply to  ImpObs

That’s the other direction, round Canada – and the attempt failed. The northwest passage became open to shipping without an icebreaker for the first time very recently – in 2007.

ImpObs
3 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

Oh really…

Norwegian explorer Roald Amundsen became the first to successfully navigate the Northwest Passage in 1906…

Fingal
Fingal
3 years ago
Reply to  ImpObs

It took him 3 years to get the benefit of the seasons, and it was by boat, not ship. He went through waters with a draft as shallow as 1 metre only. That’s a deep puddle, not a sea.

ImpObs
3 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

St. Roch was constructed in 1928 at the Burrard Dry Dock Shipyards in North Vancouver. Between 1929 and 1939 she supplied and patrolled Canada’s Arctic.

In 1940–1942 she became the first vessel to complete a voyage
through the Northwest Passage in a west to east direction, and in 1944
became the first vessel to make a return trip through the Northwest
Passage

Truth is the arctic ice waxes and wanes naturally, your spurious claims regarding the passage are disingenuous, as are all your posts.

Fingal
Fingal
3 years ago
Reply to  ImpObs

The St Roch was a specially strengthened vessel for the ice, although not technically an icebreaker. The journey was extremely difficult and continuous sailing was not possible.

What is now happening especially with the route across Russia is the possibility of permanent, every-season access using ships viable for trade. This is a completely new situation.

RedhotScot
3 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

Dozens of ships stuck in Arctic as ice freezes early in reverse of recent warming winters

22/11/2021

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/dozens-of-ships-stuck-in-arctic-as-ice-freezes-early-in-reverse-of-recent-warming-winters/ar-AAR0n3c

Usual drivel from Fingers………

AAR0vpR.jpeg
Fingal
Fingal
3 years ago
Reply to  Londo Mollari

Also, a transpolar sea route (round the top of Russia) may soon become possible because of warmer conditions. This is not a small thing.

Shimpling Chadacre
3 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

Excellent news. It does appear to pass many people by that we’re in (admittedly the latter stages of) an interglacial. The ice is supposed to be melting. The clue is in the name. When it comes to an end, the ice will advance again.

Fingal
Fingal
3 years ago

You can argue for the reason (you think an interglacial) but that still contradicts the essence of this article, which is trying to suggest nothing is happening at all.

Completely different argument. You’re accepting the change is real, but arguing the reason.

Shimpling Chadacre
3 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

No, you’re wrong there. Both about my point (which was in response to your end-is-nigh bed-wetting) and the article.

“trying to suggest nothing is happening at all.”

Just totally wrong, the exact opposite of the article:

“I continued the article by putting the waxing and waning of Arctic sea ice in some historical context, noting that very low levels had been observed by sailors in the early 19th century.”

Reading comprehension fail, I’m afraid.

Fingal
Fingal
3 years ago

I observed that a transpolar sea route round Russia is becoming credible for the first time – and that is a fact. It makes it very hard to argue that nothing much has changed about temperatures in the polar regions and it would strongly support another observation, that the sea ice volume/thickness has decreased. (It would be bizarre if it hadn’t.)

Some people here are trying to argue that the decrease in ice volume either hasn’t happened, or doesn’t matter.

RedhotScot
3 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

Why would it matter?

huxleypiggles
3 years ago

Please stop engaging with the troll.

These thoroughly unpleasant people only come here to disrupt and cause unpleasantness.

Londo Mollari
3 years ago
Reply to  huxleypiggles

Unlike down below, there’s a decent conversation going on here.

RedhotScot
3 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

Its nonsensical final “verdict” noted that I quoted sea ice levels and stated that it was “not proof that climate change is not happening”. I did not say that it was…… (my emphasis)

Usual drivel from Fingers…….

Londo Mollari
3 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

I looked for details of traffic through the Northern Route (as it is called). There was a steady increase until 2014 when the West began sanctioning Russia. So, we’re not getting a true picture.

RedhotScot
3 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

Dozens of ships stuck in Arctic as ice freezes early in reverse of recent warming winters

22/11/2021

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/dozens-of-ships-stuck-in-arctic-as-ice-freezes-early-in-reverse-of-recent-warming-winters/ar-AAR0n3c

Usual drivel from Fingers………..

AAR0vpR.jpeg
Fingal
Fingal
3 years ago
Reply to  RedhotScot

Gosh you are an idiot. There isn’t time enough left in the world to sort out your ignorance.

RedhotScot
3 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

LOL.

Nice admission of defeat.

Thanks.

TheyLiveAndWeLockdown
3 years ago
Reply to  Londo Mollari

Is this another “testdemic” whereby we notice a change on something we only just started looking at having no idea of what natural variability is?

John Dee
3 years ago

You must admit that they’re the best sort of thing, since they’re irrefutable.
Probably why they’re so popular.

MrTea
MrTea
3 years ago
Reply to  Londo Mollari

‘One of the charges he made was levelled at the IPCC crowd – he claimed that in the 2000s they substituted figures derived from modelling for actual measurements, because the latter were too alarming.’

Alarming people is what the IPCC is there to do, why would they suddenly decide to do the exact opposite by hiding genuine pro climate catastrophe data?

TheyLiveAndWeLockdown
3 years ago
Reply to  MrTea

“the science” means science-free grants-for-scares

David Beaton
David Beaton
3 years ago
Reply to  Londo Mollari

There is no “debate” possible over “Carbon Zero” – it is simply insane.

chris-ds
chris-ds
3 years ago
Reply to  Londo Mollari

Clarkson and chums reached the position of the 1996 North Pole in pickup trucks In 2007.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_Gear:_Polar_Special

ice was thick enough then to drive and sledge on.

peyrole
peyrole
3 years ago
Reply to  Londo Mollari

Aye, and Greenland used to be green! Of course the thickness and volume changes, always has, always will. The point is it has bugger all to do with a trace gas. That is what distinguishes ‘warmists’ ( computer modellers) from scientists. CO2 increases will have a mild effect on climate, ie colder temperatures are very slightly less cold. But other factors completely outweigh it when looking at the long term temperature movements on earth.

TheyLiveAndWeLockdown
3 years ago
Reply to  peyrole

Those water vapour things also known as clouds are not really modelled.

RedhotScot
3 years ago

Not possible unless one stops the earth, counts them, lets the earth move on for, say, a minute, then counts them again.

chris-ds
chris-ds
3 years ago
Reply to  RedhotScot

there was some interesting studies done in 2001 after world wide groundings of flights.

https://www.nature.com/articles/418601a

RedhotScot
3 years ago
Reply to  chris-ds

Indeed. None of them coinciding with counting every cloud on the planet at the same moment in time.

Complete navel gazing. It’s all the product of Excel spreadsheets which ‘scientists’ should be banned from using until they have worked things out with an abacus and pencil and paper. Then tweaking a single number to achieve their desired objective would be far less worth the effort.

John Dee
3 years ago
Reply to  Londo Mollari

Interesting post, but I would argue your point about groupthink on both sides.
I wouldn’t disagree with the basic statement, but the effect has to be measured by the level of prevalence within either group. I’d have thought that those who err on the side of thinking that the science is ‘settled’ are in a rather worse position.
Just an opinion, of course, and I have no claim whatsoever to expertise in these matters.

RedhotScot
3 years ago
Reply to  John Dee

Not entirely wrong. Some groupthink on the sceptic side as well.

RedhotScot
3 years ago
Reply to  Londo Mollari

More than two dozen cargo vessels are stuck in Russia’s Arctic ice, waiting for ice-breakers to come to their rescue, after an inaccurate forecast from the country’s Met Office. 22/11/2021

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/dozens-of-ships-stuck-in-arctic-as-ice-freezes-early-in-reverse-of-recent-warming-winters/ar-AAR0n3c

AAR0vpR.jpeg
JXB
JXB
3 years ago
Reply to  Londo Mollari

And what has thinned the ice? The Polar Ice being a continuous sheet, ice thickness would be lost from the underside,,, as with glaciers. That can’t be by near surface temperature increase aka global warming. It might be due to undersea activity, say from volcanoes.

Surface ice loss would require run-off or evaporation in Summer, and no recovery in Winter.

me too
me too
3 years ago
Reply to  Londo Mollari

Chacun est autorisé pour être stupide, mais certains maltraitent le privilège.

Jack Daw
Jack Daw
3 years ago
Reply to  Londo Mollari

I am a sceptic of anthropogenic climate change but thanks for adding some context to the story. It would be more accurate to measure the mass, if that’s possible, of ice rather than the extent.

MikeHaseler
3 years ago

Reuters is another organisation that should be disbanded for its bias.

David Beaton
David Beaton
3 years ago
Reply to  MikeHaseler

If this happened to ever biased Globalist occupied organisation there would be very few left.

We now have an Elites and Corporates versus the Rest situation

John Dee
3 years ago
Reply to  MikeHaseler

I always thought they were merely a writers’ group based in Ireland.
Wrong again!

huxleypiggles
3 years ago
Reply to  John Dee

😀 😀 😀

Judy Watson
Judy Watson
3 years ago
Reply to  MikeHaseler

I used to trust Reuters but not any more.

me too
me too
3 years ago
Reply to  MikeHaseler

Daily there I went. Mostly lies praising the West.

A Y M
3 years ago

These people are just as thick headed, fanatical and disingenuous as they were about all the propaganda on COVID-19.

Theres a truly cold place in hell for these people.

me too
me too
3 years ago
Reply to  A Y M

In hell, the darkest places are reserved to those who keep their neutrality in times of moral crises.
Dante Alighieri (1265–1321)

timsk
3 years ago

Brilliant Chris – allow me to doff my virtual cap to you sir! 🙂

ImpObs
3 years ago

Arguing with “fact checkers” is like arguing with a gaslighting Narcissist, which is like playing chess with a pigeon, they knock all the pieces over, shit all over the board, and dance about like they won a legitimate victory. It’s pointless.
Defying climate models, the sea ice surrounding Antarctica steadily increased during the 37 years from 1979-2015.

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2022/05/31/new-study-the-2016-2020-antarctic-sea-ice-decline-may-be-traced-to-natural-processes/

MikeHaseler
3 years ago
Reply to  ImpObs

Many fact checkers are more dishonest than the journalists who pay them.

David Beaton
David Beaton
3 years ago
Reply to  MikeHaseler

“Journalists” don’t pay them, Billionaires do – they pay the journalists as well!

TheyLiveAndWeLockdown
3 years ago
Reply to  ImpObs

And it expanded less only where there’s vast amounts of volcanoes…

huxleypiggles
3 years ago
Reply to  ImpObs

I love your opening para.

me too
me too
3 years ago
Reply to  ImpObs

Sorry… Rather it is arguing with a stupid, rude and ignorant.

For a fist full of roubles

It may help to know that this is the Wiki definition of “extreme event attribution”

Attribution studies generally proceed in four steps: (1) measuring the magnitude and frequency of a given event based on observed data, (2) running computer models to compare with and verify observation data, (3) running the same models on a baseline “Earth” with no climate change, and (4) using statistics to analyze the differences between the second and third steps, thereby measuring the direct effect of climate change on the studied event.

Step 2 will come as no surprise to anyone, but it is a completely new use “to verify observation data”. When I did science at university it was the other way round; observation data were use to verify (or otherwise) theoretical projections.

David Beaton
David Beaton
3 years ago

Who reads Globalist Woke Wiki any longer?

prick
3 years ago
Reply to  David Beaton

Fact checkers. Or,one could say,fat cheque(ers)

For a fist full of roubles
Reply to  David Beaton

When it comes to finding out how the woke define themselves there is no more authoritative source.

chris-ds
chris-ds
3 years ago

Verifying what we calculated was definitely a thing for my chemistry degree.

working out why my experiments didn’t match the calculated outcomes (especially when the lecturers did) showed understanding of the subject.

basically you get out what you put in, if the ratios are not what you expected you can work out what stage of the experiment went wrong.

TheyLiveAndWeLockdown
3 years ago
Reply to  chris-ds

Create scare
Get grant
Run model
Report results.
SCIENCE!

RedhotScot
3 years ago
Reply to  chris-ds

Respect.

Whilst I get Physics, Chemistry is a complete mystery to me. Always was, always will be.

JASA
JASA
3 years ago
Reply to  RedhotScot

At a basic level, not much to it really. Just the movement of electrons and the subsequent effects. My PhD was in Organic Chemistry i.e. carbon chemistry.

RedhotScot
3 years ago
Reply to  JASA

Even more respect.

I know what Chemistry is about, it’s just the operation of it doesn’t somehow connect in my head.

Physics, Biology, Engineering, all fine.

MrTea
MrTea
3 years ago

There is a narrative, that narrative is so utterly true (according to the globalists) that it is just too dangerous to allow dissenters to be heard, especially when those dissenters are pointing out facts that prove the globalists are lying.

Exactly the same principles were at play with the covid fraud.

prick
3 years ago

Reuters “fact checkers” rattled. Nice one Chris.

Cecil B
Cecil B
3 years ago

When did ‘fact checkers’ first appear?

So basically these ****s read an article and tell you what you are allowed or not allowed to believe

Back in the day they would have been referred to as jumped up shits

TheBluePill
3 years ago
Reply to  Cecil B

They seemed to gain prominence during Brexit (as much of the tyranny did). It gained traction when fact checkers subtly distorted the wording on a bus and then set out to disprove their own distortion. I’m not saying that the wording on the bus was accurate, but it did not make the actual claim that nearly everyone thinks it does.

RedhotScot
3 years ago
Reply to  TheBluePill

It didn’t help that punctuation wasn’t used on the bus. Full, stop’s. and; comma’s! etc. make? a-considerable: difference

huxleypiggles
3 years ago
Reply to  Cecil B

Anybody relying on fact checkers is basically saying:

“I’m fik me. I can reed a bit tho.”

Judy Watson
Judy Watson
3 years ago
Reply to  huxleypiggles

sorry you spelt can wrong – it should be kan. ha, ha ,ha

RedhotScot
3 years ago
Reply to  Judy Watson

kunt.

As In, I kunt read at all.

The hamster reads the fact check and relays it to the wheel in the head of the one staring at the passage of text.

That’s why all you hear is ‘squeak, squeak’ when you discuss anything with them.

Give them a beer, it lubricates the wheel, and the squeaking disappears.

huxleypiggles
3 years ago
Reply to  Judy Watson

Thank you Judy for pointing out a rather basic error on my part. 😀

David Beaton
David Beaton
3 years ago
Reply to  Cecil B

Or “Thought Police”?

David Beaton
David Beaton
3 years ago

As we know that “Fact Checkers” appointed by the Globalist Fascist Elites are merely spreading their misinformation we can ignore them and hope others do too. Sadly, the sheep sleep on, as the multi-front assault on humanity gathers pace!

More arson attacks reported last night in the US on a very large egg processing plant and other food processing plants as the Globalists continue their campaign to create food shortages and panics – why don’t the media report this (but we know why).

RedhotScot
3 years ago
Reply to  David Beaton

A reasonable explanation has been proffered by Dan Bongino which must be considered.

Following all the lay offs during covid, many staff didn’t return to these food processing facilities so unskilled staff were hurriedly recruited. They hadn’t a clue what they were doing and accidents happened.

However, it doesn’t explain why the civil service hasn’t been razed to the ground so I have my doubts.

David Beaton
David Beaton
3 years ago
Reply to  RedhotScot

Does that explain light aircraft crashing into storage depots as well? Pilots either asleep or multi-jabbed?

Funny too how only food seems to be involved – no Amazon warehouses gone up in flames yet?

RedhotScot
3 years ago
Reply to  David Beaton

I can only repeat my confusion over the civil service…….

TheTartanEagle
TheTartanEagle
3 years ago
Reply to  David Beaton

If these are indeed attacks, someone is paying operatives to do the deed. That could be “professionals” or random thugs after easy cash. If they are professionals, where are they coming from? It’s quite difficult to destroy factories, normally they have some sort of gate control, long working shifts etc etc.

DanClarke
DanClarke
3 years ago

Its just like Covid, making shed loads of money for the few. Computer Modelling will be our downfall, not a virus or climate

chris-ds
chris-ds
3 years ago

Who fact checks the fact checkers??

I do hope Reuters does the right thing and publishes an apology for misleading people and for being duped.

TheyLiveAndWeLockdown
3 years ago
Reply to  chris-ds

Quis Custodiet?

David Beaton
David Beaton
3 years ago

…ipsos custodes?

dave b
dave b
3 years ago

Polyak et al. (2010) looked at Arctic sea ice changes throughout geologic history and noted that the current rate of loss appears to be more rapid than natural variability can account for in the historical record.

“The current reduction in Arctic ice cover started in the late 19th century, consistent with the rapidly warming climate, and became very pronounced over the last three decades. This ice loss appears to be unmatched over at least the last few thousand years and unexplainable by any of the known natural variabilities.”

https://skepticalscience.com/past-Arctic-sea-ice-extent.htm

RedhotScot
3 years ago
Reply to  dave b

Skepticalscience.

The amateur website founded by a professional cartoonist, who couldn’t find a job after qualifying with a Physics degree, dressed up as something sciency.

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Herr Cook…….

Herr Cook.gif
MTF
MTF
3 years ago
Reply to  RedhotScot

The quote is from Polyak et al – it is just reproduced on Skeptical Science.(John Cook has nothing to do with it – the Skeptical Science article was written by Dana Nuccitelli).
If you are going to pursue the route of argumentum ad hominem you might at least get the right hominem!

RedhotScot
3 years ago
Reply to  MTF

Dana Nuccitelli is as big a fantasist liar as you could get.

John Cook has everything to do with it as he set the site up and managed it for long enough.

One favoured tactic of ‘moderators’ is to delete post’s that contradict the childish narrative of AGW.

It’s the most pathetic attempt to distort science and was one of the principle reasons I wound up a sceptic. One of the others was, of course, desmogblog. A hit site run by a convicted fraudster and PR ‘expert’. What anyone managing that site knows about science could be written on the back of a stamp.

Alex B
3 years ago
Reply to  RedhotScot

😀 Nice one; a blast from the past! I haven’t seen that in a while.
The images were from a viewable image subdirectory of the Skeptical Science website
I think Cook is into psychology now, I know he’s mates with Stefan I am a cognitive scientist with an interest in computational modelling Lewandowsky.
Both of them were lauded by one Neil Ferguson on these very pages when it was Lockdown Sceptics.
Explains a lot.

RedhotScot
3 years ago
Reply to  Alex B

I have all the images on my HD.

I know Cook the fraud abandoned Skepticalscience recently but had no idea he had turned his narcissistic ambitions to psychology.

I think I also missed the Lockdown Sceptics report of Ferguson dribbling over him and Lewandowsky.

I do have to thank Cook though for my conversion. I was a fully paid up climate alarmist and went to Skepticalscience to clarify in my own mind what was happening.

When I asked questions, not even difficult ones as I was a complete novice at the time, I was basically threatened with my life. It was horrifying.

I went to WUWT expecting the same, but was met with folks who tolerated my really dumb questions and, after about 10 years, I had an article accepted and published by them.

MTF
MTF
3 years ago

Chris Morrison has an interesting technique of showing a chart which illustrates X and implying it shows not-X. He does it regularly with the global temperature records and now he is doing with the sea ice extent. The charts in his figure clearly show a long term downward trend in sea ice extent – particularly in September. Like all trends with a stochastic element there are exceptions. September 2012 was lower than the trend, 2021 was higher than the trend. Comparing the two and drawing any implications about overall trend is blatant cherry-picking, likewise pointing out that 2021 is close to the 91-20 average or higher than 2020. It is just one year! This chart which I showed in response to his first article gives a clearer idea of the trend. However, most of his article and the headline was devoted to evidence the current variations are small in the historical context. As the Reuters article points out this evidence comprises a couple of anecdotal stories and the research from some Canadian scientists on a very limited area (the Scotian Shelf and in the Gulf of St. Lawrence). As Dan Jones points out in the Reuter article, there is no… Read more »

John001
John001
3 years ago
Reply to  MTF

As I understand it, world climate has varied hugely over say 100,000 years, without human intervention (see analysis of Greenland ice cores). However, humans are rightly worried about shifts of only a degree or so.

We’re a fragile race, especially with 8 bn of us on the planet. I agree with some of the elite that 8 bn is a disaster, but now we have that many we have to feed them; other suggestions are disgusting. Japan has been depopulating (but ‘peacefully’) since 2010.

The BBC and Reuters are leading members of the ‘Trusted News Initiative’ (aka Ministry of Truth). Once they return to allowing free discourse, I might take them seriously again.

huxleypiggles
3 years ago
Reply to  John001

“The BBC and Reuters are leading members of the ‘Trusted News Initiative’ (aka Ministry of Truth). Once they return to allowing free discourse, I might take them seriously again.”

There is no going back to the MSM as far as I am concerned – far too corrupt and way beyond redemption.

RedhotScot
3 years ago
Reply to  MTF

This chart which I showed in response to his first article gives a clearer idea of the trend.

No attribution.

You made that up on your own, didn’t you……..

MTF
MTF
3 years ago
Reply to  RedhotScot

Sorry I forgot to include the attribution – it was in my original response – it is  here (you have to scroll down a bit).

RedhotScot
3 years ago
Reply to  MTF

Which still makes absolutely no difference to the effect of melting sea ice to mankind.

“Gee, the ice in my G&T melted and overflowed onto my trousers”

No mate, you pissed yourself and that’s why everyone at the party is laughing at the drunk in the corner blaming the physical impossible.

FFS, grow up man. You people exist in the nanometre universe when the world operates on the metre scale.

You make shit up about impossibly tiny variables that will kill us all in the next 5 years, and for the last 40 years none of them have.

How much more bilge will you continue to produce before you recognise the futility of your impossible claims?

Star
3 years ago

When the scribbler functionary academic whores “fact check” you like that, Chris, it only makes it even clearer that you’re right.

Just don’t let them suck you in. That’s a trap.

Exeter University has a Centre for the Study of Esotericism that is believed to be under the influence of the Rudolf Steiner cult and to be highly thought of by the loony crown prince.

Its vice chancellor Li$a Robert$ used to work for Leeds University, where she “led a major step change in how the University worked with business, from start-ups to large corporates; launching a new innovation hub and leading a city-wide team of senior city stakeholders”. Oh for independent thought, eh?

As for “Climate Change Professor” James Screen, he was spotted at a recent conference:

comment image

TheTartanEagle
TheTartanEagle
3 years ago
Reply to  Star

“How universities work with business” is the fundamental important point. They should not be working with business. University research should be independent.

The end point after a couple of decades is of course that there will be no new knowledge that is actually true, and shortly after that it will be found that anything based on fabrication doesn’t work or delivers unexpected outcomes. End result – chaos.

TheyLiveAndWeLockdown
3 years ago
Reply to  TheTartanEagle

Subsidising (patent) title owners is one of the core pillars of the establishment welfare state.

RedhotScot
3 years ago
Reply to  Star

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

👍

J4mes
3 years ago

Can the ‘fact checkers’ tell us what happened to the hole in the ozone layer?

Fingal
Fingal
3 years ago
Reply to  J4mes

It’s been a big success for emissions control under the Montreal Protocol. Probably the best-supported piece of international climate legislation.

J4mes
3 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

If emissions are under control, then what’s the problem?

Fingal
Fingal
3 years ago
Reply to  J4mes

Emissions of CFCs, not carbon dioxide. CFCs are reckoned to be about 2,000x more destructive for the same volume.

Cooperation to remove CFCs has been easier to get essentially because it was very much cheaper and easier than CO2 to eliminate from industry and lifestyles.

DanClarke
DanClarke
3 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

Tree cover loss is responsible for eight per cent of all annual carbon emissions, maybe chopping down rain forest needs to be answered first

RedhotScot
3 years ago
Reply to  DanClarke

Virgin greening has grown by 14% over 35 years of satellite observations. 70% of that is directly attributable to increased atmospheric CO2, including in the Amazon rain forest.

Two continents the size of mainland USA of extra vegetation according to one of the NASA scientists.

David Beaton
David Beaton
3 years ago
Reply to  DanClarke

After 50 years of trying, how do we even begin to go about it when we are dealing with the activities of the very faux Green Global Corporates and Banks who are pushing Carbon Zero!

Exploitation , Hypocrisy and Greed win every time

J4mes
3 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

Carbon dioxide feeds plants and trees. If there really is a problem with excess CO2, why do western governments persistently destroy natural land under the claim there is a “housing crisis” – while the same governments import millions of fighting age men from African nations?

Our infrastructure is buckling under the weight of these people moving in since the days of Tyrant Tony.

Surely this is the crisis which needs to be addressed?

Fingal
Fingal
3 years ago
Reply to  J4mes

Controlling CFC emissions is easy and (AFAIK) not widely disputed. It does show what can be achieved.

I know members here dispute the CO2 issue but that’s another (much longer) story.

RedhotScot
3 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

What CO2 issue do others on here dispute?

JASA
JASA
3 years ago
Reply to  J4mes

Indeed, or destroy peat bogs in Scotland (and elsewhere) to build wind turbines. Peat bogs are very good carbon sinks, so it is a bit perverse to destroy them (by drying them up and filling them with cement for the foundations), thus raising CO2 levels, in order to build something that is suppose to reduce CO2. They are also doing this to build rocket sites.

David Beaton
David Beaton
3 years ago
Reply to  JASA

Wind turbines are big ‘do nothing and get paid’ earners for rich land owners, valuable natural carbon sinks like peat bogs aren’t.

Whatever makes people think that any of this is seriously about viable green energy supply and managing carbon levels naturally ?

Where I live they even try to build their epidemic of tick-tack houses on ancient peat bogs!

RedhotScot
3 years ago
Reply to  J4mes

Here’s a little conundrum for you.

The maintenance birth rate of a community is 2.1 children per couple.

The UK is around 1.8, Italy is around 1.4.

Even with immigration, legal or otherwise, why is there a ‘housing crisis’.

David Beaton
David Beaton
3 years ago
Reply to  RedhotScot

There isn’t.

There is a Developer Greed Crisis fed by the arrival in power of a totally unscrupulous and immoral fake Conservative Government, in the hands of the Building Lobby and associate industries and services, all of which profit from the free-for-all house building on Green Belt, currently underway across the whole country – whatever claims are made to the contrary.

TheTartanEagle
TheTartanEagle
3 years ago
Reply to  RedhotScot

Families fall apart and adult children get their own place. Previously multiple generations lived in one household, children only left home when they got married in many cases. Modern houses are too small for comfortable multi generation living. All those young men who fathered children but never married likely end up living alone, all those single parents scraping by are unlikely to end up in a house large enough to share with adult children.

If the population once required 20 million houses, you could increase that by a huge factor if half the marriages end in divorce.

David Beaton
David Beaton
3 years ago
Reply to  TheTartanEagle

“Modern houses are too small” yes cram them in to make more money rather than meet real needs of modern life!

As for outdoor space and practical outhouses -forget it!

RedhotScot
3 years ago
Reply to  TheTartanEagle

So all the tales of houses being unaffordable for first time buyers are fake then?

David Beaton
David Beaton
3 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

You means it was actually possible!

Fingal
Fingal
3 years ago
Reply to  David Beaton

To control CFC emissions? Yes.

RedhotScot
3 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

No one ever “controlled” CFC emissions. We reduced human emissions of them!

Fkn moron.

Fingal
Fingal
3 years ago
Reply to  RedhotScot

Imagine if we could reduce your emissions of stupidity. It might not save the world, but it would certainly make it more fun while it lasted.

RedhotScot
3 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

Yet another victory scored for RHS, Fingers reduced to gibberish again.

Back of the Net!

huxleypiggles
3 years ago
Reply to  J4mes

They knitted it back together because too much Co2 was escaping through the hole.

Fortyman
Fortyman
3 years ago

Par for many fact checkers over the last two years. Precious few facts and much opinion. Wonder why? ..Not

huxleypiggles
3 years ago

‘Reuters Fact Checkers’

That’s quite enough there.

twinkytwonk
3 years ago

You can’t argue with an idiot (MSM)!

Jo Starlin
3 years ago

That would be the Reuters that’s “partnered” with the WEF to provide exclusive content distribution, yes?

David Beaton
David Beaton
3 years ago
Reply to  Jo Starlin

Yes, ‘conspiracy’ in action!

Richard789
Richard789
3 years ago

There is a pretty graph in the Times today (I think it was in the sponsored supplement, but have left the newspaper in a cafe) showing the vanishing of the Arctic ice cap. It looked like its area had fallen to about a third of what it used to be. But if you looked at the vertical axis, you saw that the base line was 13 million square km, not zero, and that the actual fall was from 15.5 to 14. So even if the numbers were right, they had been deliberately presented in a way that would create maximum (and unjustified) alarm. Even at school, aged 12 or so, I was taught that if your axis misses out a chunk of values you put a zig-zag in it to draw attention to this fact. Of course they did not.

JXB
JXB
3 years ago
Reply to  Richard789

Yes but you went to school, they went to a propaganda factory.

David Beaton
David Beaton
3 years ago
Reply to  JXB

Yes the success of which is evidenced by the total inability of the ‘Covidioits’ to read and expose the deliberate distortion, selection and misrepresentation of Covid stats in fraudulent and misleading graphs, pumped out daily by the MS Media, to both generate and maintain the Covid Fear and drive the mass vax campaign over the last two years.

The average person can no longer read graphs and ask the appropriate questions on their validity

Ivor Cummins spent months trying to point out the constant fraud in the presentation of graphs and stats involving Covid – without obvious success.

The simple truth that graphs and tables can use selected information presented in such a way as to say what what you want them to say seems lost on so many.

JXB
JXB
3 years ago

‘Misleading’ = refute our official lies. Arctic Sea Ice extent is a measure of area not mass. Anything which floats can be spread out or compressed together, oil for example, so the same mass can cover a larger or smaller area. Surface ice can be influenced by surface or underwater currents, wind speed and direction, water temperature – as well as near surface temperature. It can only be a proxy for global warming but as such because of multiple influences and notorious historic variability, it is a very unreliable one, like tree-ring proxies, to the point of uselessness. It tells us all we need to know about ‘climate change’ when those peddling it refer exclusively to proxies: sea ice, Polar bears, ski slopes, tree-rings, animal migration, wildfires, etc. Climate is the study of meteorological factors measured, recorded and averaged over the long term – preferably thousands/tens of thousands of years to smooth out extremes at the margins variation around from the mean. Yet never do climate ‘scientists’ show us these records to support their claims that there is a trend so far away from natural variation that it will wipe out all life on Earth, together with evidence Mankind is… Read more »

RedhotScot
3 years ago
Reply to  JXB

…..

Carbon_Dioxide_Geological_4600mya_.jpeg
Alex B
3 years ago
Reply to  RedhotScot

Why was that down ticked? FFS!

RedhotScot
3 years ago
Reply to  Alex B

Fingal probably. He suffers badly from Cognitive dissonance.

Superunknown
Superunknown
3 years ago

Fact checkers? Formerly known as spin doctors.
Funny how they only “fact” check certain things, and very rarely actually present any actual facts to disprove the articles, instead they spin the original out of context, then usually disprove themselves using double negatives.
Also notice they never check the facts on certain politicians, or narratives that are demonstrably false, but get involved when people have pointed out that they are false, weird.
Just another division of the propaganda wing.

RedhotScot
3 years ago

Assuming atmospheric CO2 is the only climate change influence, IPCC data itself informs us that mankind’s emissions, being ~3% – 4% of total CO2 emissions, would take 25,000 years to raise the planet’s temperature by 2ºC.

Straightforward arithmetic.

Fingal
Fingal
3 years ago
Reply to  RedhotScot

You’ve claimed this before. Please show your maths.

RedhotScot
3 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

I’ve shown the Arithmetic dummy, on numerous occasions. Even you can do it yourself, I hope.

Fingal
Fingal
3 years ago
Reply to  RedhotScot

I knew there was no point in treating you seriously even for a second.

I haven’t read all your previous posts and I’m certainly not going to trawl back through them, as that would involve reading a potentially fatal amount of utter crap.

RedhotScot
3 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

Why can’t you work it out?

Why do I have to do all the work for you?

It’s straightforward arithmetic using officially recognised number the IPCC have announced many times.

Figure it out like I did.

Fingal
Fingal
3 years ago
Reply to  RedhotScot

Stop wasting time and copy and paste your workings.

You lied to me before on Ukraine and statistics for ceasefire violations in the Donbass. And for sure, you’re either lying or ignorant this time too.

RedhotScot
3 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

I gave you factual, reported information on the Ukrainian attack on Donbas.

You didn’t like it so now resort to denying official reports. Cognitive dissonance doesn’t begin to describe your level of denial.

Fingal
Fingal
3 years ago
Reply to  RedhotScot

You failed to distinguish between Ukrainian attacks and rebel attacks, and attributed them all to Ukraine. It was a lie, you persisted in it, and you still persist in it.

RedhotScot
3 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

It makes no odds. western Ukraine artillery was positioned on the border of Donbas. It was an act of aggression. Eastern Ukrainians were defending their position.

Guess why no UN country in the world has come to the aid of western Ukraine?

Because they know that Putin’s delivery of UN Article 51 to the Security Council was legal and no one now dare intervene or they break international law by assisting an aggressor.

Why does the obvious just pass you by every, singe, time?

Fingal
Fingal
3 years ago
Reply to  RedhotScot

You’re not even able to deny it’s a lie any more.

You begin in ignorance. You attempt to extract figures from a complicated chart. You fail. You come up with a completely incorrect statistic. You broadcast it here. Eventually, someone takes the time to wade through your source, at which point they discover you’re talking complete crap.

They ask you to show workings. You refuse. You say look back at my posts. But there are thousands of them, this is how you spend your life.

You persist in your lie.

That’s the LukeWarmScotty strategy, in a nutshell.

RedhotScot
3 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

Where have I extracted information from a complicated chart?
(Answer, I haven’t)

What incorrect statistic did I come up with?
(Answer, all internationally accepted data recognised by the IPCC)

What source did someone wade through?
(Answer, the only source I have cited is the IPCC)

What crap am I talking?
(Answer, none. Arithmetic using IPCC data can’t be crap, can it?)

My question: How could you know any of this unless you had seen my workings?
(Answer, you couldn’t)

I did the work to reach the numbers. The only thing you have to do is figure out a key term and search a few climate articles on DS and the solution is there for you.

But this is far too difficult for you, despite me giving you at least one key term to search for.

You want everything presented to you on a plate.

Do some work. Lazy cretin. How could anyone expect you to understand, far less undertake Arithmetic?

Fingal
Fingal
3 years ago
Reply to  RedhotScot

I’m talking about the Ukrainian statistics, numbskull.

Now you’re doing the same again. You come up with a number. You claim it’s sourced from a reputable site. But anyone would look for it in vain. Because actually, it’s a piece of crap you came up with in your own head.

RedhotScot
3 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

The graph I found (which you didn’t) wasn’t a graph but columns of text and numbers. Try to learn the difference. The “graph” merely illustrated western Ukraine was the aggressor but you pretended you knew what you were talking about by asking how many shots were fired by who. I found the data, you do your part and figure out what you want from it yourself. The number of shots fired by who is utterly irrelevant, but your usual tactic is to reduce anything you don’t like to irrelevance. The declaration that Russia had intervened in western Ukrainian aggression was delivered precisely, and legally, in terms of UN Article 51. It’s there in black and white. Do some work, look it up, it’s only a paragraph long (although I have posted it) and try to read it. The fact that no UN member nation has intervened to support western Ukraine, short of them supplying hand held weapons, is irrefutable. They are not just entitled to, but morally obliged to, assuming their support is not considered supportive of an aggressor. At its most basic, western Ukraine called for a no fly zone to be enforced by UN members. They were refused.… Read more »

Fingal
Fingal
3 years ago
Reply to  RedhotScot

The number of shots fired by who is utterly irrelevant

And here we have it. LukeWarm’s brilliant dissection of the Ukrainian conflict.

He actually seriously think it doesn’t matter who fires the shots!

I wonder how many people you fitted up as a cop?

RedhotScot
3 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

He actually seriously think it doesn’t matter who fires the shots!

That wasn’t your argument. You were demanding to know how many shots were fired by whom. Now whose the liar?

The fact that western Ukraine were on the border of east Ukraine shooting into Donbas indicates they are, ad have been for the last 8 years, the aggressor.

Has eastern Ukraine attacked Kiev? Not in 8 years they haven’t, the persistent insurgency has been from west to east.

Western Ukraine are the aggressors. This is indisputable.

You can try to change the dynamics of the discussion all you want, but the fact remains, a UN member nation (Russia) intervened in an act of aggression by western Ukraine, against another UN member nation (eastern Ukraine) which they are entitled to do, and every other UN nation is now hands off because Putin conducted his intervention entirely in accordance with Article 51.

The facts here are indisputable. You just can’t face up to them, so consumed are you with irrational hatred.

Fingal
Fingal
3 years ago
Reply to  RedhotScot

You were demanding to know how many shots were fired by whom

Yes, and it turned out you hadn’t a clue.

I introduce you to a new concept for you in war: yes, it matters which side is firing the shots.

RedhotScot
3 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

Yes, and it turned out you hadn’t a clue.

Factually wrong. I don’t care. I’m only interested in who the aggressor is.

By your logic, if a defender fired 1,000 rounds of artillery and the aggressor only dropped one nuclear weapon, the defender would be in the wrong.

Grow up Fingers. You are completely out your depth.

Fingal
Fingal
3 years ago
Reply to  RedhotScot

By your logic, if a defender fired 1,000 rounds of artillery and the aggressor only dropped one nuclear weapon, the defender would be in the wrong.

Clueless.

RedhotScot
3 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

It’s your logic freak, not mine.

RedhotScot
3 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

I wonder how many people you fitted up as a cop?

At least I was a cop. What have you ever done of value?

Fingal
Fingal
3 years ago
Reply to  RedhotScot

A bad cop is not an asset to anyone

RedhotScot
3 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

Prove I was a bad cop. Simpleton.

You were going to enlighten us all as to your benefit to society, weren’t you?

RedhotScot
3 years ago
Reply to  RedhotScot

No answer came the loud reply. After 5 hours, Fingal admits by omission that he has contributed precisely nothing to public life, yet sneeringly suggests I was a bad cop.

Fucking ingrate. What a complete slime ball.

RedhotScot
3 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

I don’t “claim it’s sourced from a valid site”, the numbers used in the calculation are sourced from the IPCC. Isn’t that valid?

Just by invoking a simple search on no more than two, perhaps three previous DS climate articles, I could find my post detailing the calculation in, perhaps, 5 minutes. Probably much less, but certainly no more.

I told you, I have posted at least one key term but not only can’t you figure out how to operate a simple search function in your browser, you are too lazy to do it if you could.

Your problem, as usual Fingers, is that you just make shit up and regurgitate it in a post. When someone refutes it all you can muster is ‘Liar, liar, pant’s on fire’.

I would say it’s puerile, but you probably have no idea what that means, and as you can’t operate a simple search function, you are incapable of finding out what it means.

RedhotScot
3 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

Your usual tactic is to leave a discussion when faced with evidence you’re wrong, then claim you didn’t see it.

You saw it alright. How could you? You don’t miss a chance to chant ‘Liar, liar, pants on fire’, do you Fingers?

RedhotScot
3 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

Is atmospheric CO2 the only thing affecting global temperatures?

RedhotScot
3 years ago
Reply to  RedhotScot

~Fingal now confused~

Jabby Mcstiff
Jabby Mcstiff
3 years ago

There is something ultimately promising about this agenda. That when people are starving and freezing to death they might begin to ken that this agenda isn’t as benign as it seems. But you never know, with their dying breath they still might insist that it’s worth it. This is all a consequence of us losing, or rather being too timid to face the higher teaching. P.D. Ouspensky asked Gurdjieff why the secret teaching was kept hidden from the masses. And Gurdjieff said that it isn’t kept hidden at all. It is that there is little willingness to receive it. Many more people are capble of receiving it than want to receive it.

David Beaton
David Beaton
3 years ago

Ice Age coming! ( But we will not see it!)

RedhotScot
3 years ago
Reply to  David Beaton

I’m sure I would be bored with life by the time northern latitudes were covered in a mile of ice.

Jabby Mcstiff
Jabby Mcstiff
3 years ago

We are already in the early stages of a minor cold period. I say minor but it happens to coincide with the agenda of our overlords who are well aware of these matters. One of them was even caught wearing a necklace with an upside down cross surrounded by small red rubies. In symbology this is the death of the sun and the invasion of other forces which were kept in check bevorehand by the sun’s plenipotentiary power. As an Englishman you should know it and it should resonate with similar periods before. You made it from the ice age to the present so it shouldn’t be too big a challenge dealing with the prats in charge of the corpotocracy.