How Accurate is Jacques Baud’s Analysis of the War in Ukraine?
A recent London Calling episode featured one of those signature exchanges between Toby Young and James Delingpole which on this occasion centred on my recent piece about whether or not NATO ‘provoked’ Russia into invading Ukraine. James said he didn’t need to read that piece, insisting that his interview with the retired Swiss military intelligence officer Col. Jacques Baud in a recent Delingpod episode provided all the support he needed for the ‘NATO provocation’ theory of the war.
I decided to delve into that interview.
First off, being curious by nature, I looked up Jacques Baud online and discovered that in 2020 he went on Russian state TV to say there is “no history of poisoning by the Russian secret services”, that the Skripals simply had a bad case of “food poisoning” and that Alexei Navalny was poisoned not by the state but by some “mafia” people around him. He wasn’t challenged on any of these controversial claims and, regrettably, the Delingpod interview is in a similar vein.
A key claim made by Baud, both to Delingpole and elsewhere, is that Ukraine’s armed forces have been thoroughly infiltrated by ‘far-right’ ultra-nationalists, and consequently that Russian ‘denazification’ was and is a legitimate Russian goal. Baud cites Reuters as having said there are 102,000 ‘far-right extremists’ in the Ukrainian armed forces, a figure that he appears to have considered ‘too good to check’. The Reuters article in fact says there were 102,000 ‘paramilitary’ soldiers in 2022, which isn’t quite the same as ‘far-right extremists’. The ultimate source for this number, of which Baud is seemingly unaware, is the 2022 edition of IISS’s Military Balance, which makes an estimate of 102,000 troops in the Ukrainian ‘Gendarmerie and Paramilitary’ forces, which consist of the National Guard (60,000) and the Border Guard (42,000).
The National Guard was formed from a core of 33,000 Internal Troops personnel in 2014 and was later expanded to include some volunteer battalions, including the Azov Battalion (with pre-war numbers perhaps approaching 2,500 troops) and the Donbas Battalion (~900), although not the ‘Right Sector’ (~5,000 strong). Of course we know that some members of Azov (at least) are far-right or neo-Nazi, but Baud is essentially making the ludicrous claim that everyone in every unit of the National and Border Guard has ultra-nationalistic, far-right political beliefs.
To smear everyone in the Ukrainian National Guard in this way is like the BBC’s smearing of UKIP as a ‘far-right’ organisation. Even if we just consider the so-called volunteer battalions (perhaps a few thousand in total), the notion that anyone volunteering to defend their country must be ‘far-right’ or ‘ultra-nationalist’ (rather than just patriotic or nationalist) isn’t credible, and it’s notable that James in particular has railed against ginned-up fears of the so-called ‘far-right’ plenty of times in the past – even making reference to this in the same London Calling podcast.
However, let’s try to establish the true extent of far-right ‘infiltration’ of the armed forces of Ukraine. We can do no better than by digging up the only other source that Baud makes reference to, which is a Jerusalem Post article that itself references a George Washington University report focusing on a far-right group called ‘Centuria’ that has supposedly infiltrated the Ukrainian armed forces. Baud calls this ‘disturbing’, but I have to admit I didn’t read the full 93 pages because I was disturbed by a spontaneous fit of giggles halfway down the first page. Perhaps I can illustrate my misgivings with some quotes:
[Centuria …] has attracted multiple members, including [some] now serving in the Armed Forces of Ukraine
That’s multiple members – more than one. And some are in the military.
One apparent member of the group […] attended an 11-month Officer Training Course at […] Sandhurst […]. Another apparent member […] attended the 30th International Week held by the German Army Officers’ Academy […] in Dresden
That’s exactly two with a military background.
Despite this, Baud goes on to make claims about the power of these supposedly ‘far-right’ Ukrainian paramilitary forces in influencing and coercing Zelenskyy’s Government against seeking peace with Russia through threats of a coup or assassination. I’m intending to address these claims (as well as those surrounding Maidan 2014) on another occasion, but suffice it to say they also border on fantasy.
It’s worth noting here that the coalition of ‘far-right’ political parties garnered only 315,568 votes in the 2019 parliamentary elections in Ukraine (2.2% of votes cast, 0.9% of registered voters), gaining a total of one seat for the leader of Svoboda, whose paramilitary Sich Battalion has a total of 50 members. The threat from the Ukrainian far-right is not zero, but even if one doesn’t consider Putin himself to be the arch ultra-nationalist, we should bear in mind that Russia has its own far-right problems, and ironically the founder (and still apparently the leader) of the Wagner Group, which was sent to assassinate the notably-Jewish Zelenskyy, looks to have Nazi sympathies himself.
Baud implausibly asserts that all this supposed far-right infiltration explains why Zelenskyy’s ‘Holocaust comparison’ speech to the Knesset went down like a cup of cold sick, and why Israel isn’t providing much in the way of support to Ukraine. In fact, it was not that Knesset members believe Ukrainian armed forces are full of ‘far-right extremists’ (although plainly Azov is quite far-right, and some MKs will have been aware of a recent neo-Nazi march in Kyiv); rather, the reaction to the speech focused on the false comparison between the current war and the Holocaust, and the fact that Zelenskyy failed to make reference to the elephant in the room – that the Holocaust partly took place on Ukrainian soil. However, Israel has other considerations, such as their large Russian-speaking population and the situation in Syria – although the latter, at least, seems to be highly fluid.
Considering all of this, I find Baud’s assessment to be misinformed and misleading. The fundamental problem is that he’s clearly an intelligent and articulate man who can string together factoids into a coherent and persuasive-sounding whole – which is pernicious, when those facts are wrong. But I would still urge readers to listen to the interview: it’s informative for its clever-sounding, insidious mendacity.
Another key point Baud tries to establish is that “Ukraine started this” and he builds a narrative that: (1) Ukraine began shelling the Donbas on February 16th 2022 in an attempt to provoke a Russian invasion; (2) Joe Biden knew this was the plan, and due to intolerable provocation (3) the Russian parliament and then (4) Putin was forced unwillingly into action. He begins this thread at sixteen minutes into the podcast by saying:
In March 2021, President Zelensky issued a law to reconquer, by military means, Crimea and the south of Ukraine, meaning that they were preparing an offensive to attack Crimea and the Donbas.
What he’s referring to is a Presidential decree, the text of which is here. Quoting a journalistic summary:
[T]he basis of the strategy is the implementation of a complex of measures of a diplomatic, military, economic, informational, humanitarian and other nature with a parallel strengthening of defense capability and the development of European and Euro-Atlantic integration. Ukraine considers the political and diplomatic path to be a priority in resolving the conflict.
To suggest that this represented a prelude to a military re-conquest of Ukraine’s internationally-recognised territories is not terribly serious – it seems perfectly reasonable for Ukraine to have a strategy for what they’d need to do (e.g. build civil institutions, hold elections, etc.) in the event that Ukraine could – diplomatically or otherwise – ‘deoccupy’ Crimea. Baud goes on to say:
And [on] February 11th you may remember that Joe Biden said he knew that Russia would attack on the 16th of February. Now how could he know that? In fact, he knew that because he knew that the Ukrainians had planned to start their offensive on the 16th of February, and if you look at what the observers of the OSCE have reported from the 16th of February onwards, you see a dramatic increase of shelling from [the] Ukrainian side into the Donbas that forced the Donbas authorities to evacuate the Donbas population because they were under heavy artillery fire.
It seems obvious to a layman such as me that the U.S. could well have been aware of Russia’s intentions using well-established intelligence collection methods, such as signals intelligence gathered from the ~150,000 Russian soldiers on the Ukrainian border whom we now know to have been using insecure mobile phones – making Baud’s statement a telling solecism from a former intelligence officer. However, more to the point, it’s simply not true that Biden predicted February 16th to be the invasion date. In fact, U.S. National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan was reported to have said on February 11th:
Now, we can’t pinpoint the day at this point, and we can’t pinpoint the hour but what we can say is that there is a credible prospect that a Russian military action would take place, even before the end of the Olympics [on Feb 20th].
Reading the OSCE Special Monitoring Mission reports from the period, it’s clear there was a marked uptick in ceasefire violations (with ‘explosions’ – everything from RPGs to artillery – recorded at about 20 times the previous 30-day average), although it’s not possible to determine from these reports alone precisely who was responsible for the majority of the fire, or who started it – with both sides making accusations, and explosions reported on both sides of the line of contact. However, the OSCE maps suggest it was roughly an even exchange from both sides. You’d expect one side to respond to shelling from the other, and that seems to be what happened.
But Baud strongly implies that the OSCE reports blame Ukraine for the shelling, which is patently false, and which is again very telling because I’m confident he’s actually read the reports. The reason I can be confident is because he makes an interesting mistake, saying that on one particular day (February 18th) the rate of shelling was 40 times previous levels. But it’s clear he’s referring to one of the daily reports that actually covers two days of reporting, which is why his number is double the correct figure. Consequently, he has no excuse for suggesting the OSCE blamed the shelling on Ukraine.
As to the Russian evacuation of Donbas civilians which Baud claims was the direct result of Ukrainian shelling, there’s compelling evidence that Russia pre-planned the evacuation on or before the 16th as a pretext for the full-scale invasion, and indeed it seems that Donbas residents were confused as to the reasons – or the need – for an evacuation.
Baud’s narrative breaks down still further when he asserts that it was only after the supposed Ukrainian shelling that the Russian Duma voted to implore Putin to recognise the Donbas territories. In fact, this happened on February 15th. Then – remarkably quickly – on February 16th Russia put its claim to the UN Security Council. This was part of a planned strategy to establish the legal fiction, under Article 51 of the UN Charter, that Russia was merely defending the supposedly-independent states of Donetsk and Luhansk from outside aggression.
But if Baud is correct that the full-scale Russian invasion on the 24th was an unplanned and necessary response, it was rather convenient that those hordes of Russian troops just happened to be on Ukraine’s borders at the right time, and doubly convenient that – despite claiming on the 15th that they were withdrawing forces – Russia secretly moved another 7,000 troops to the area just before the 16th, in time for the start of these completely unexpected hostilities.
Baud may be cynically hoping that critics of Western foreign policy won’t be bothered to do their own research and will simply nod their heads sagely, feeling themselves privy to secret knowledge and safe in their titanium-lined bunker of naïveté. Sadly, it’s not clear that’s a bad strategy. But with events like the massacres in Bucha (which Baud has also denied), the rapes, forced deportations and the deliberate bombardment of non-military targets, it’s reached the point where those too cocksure to examine the facts look a lot like a modern-day Walter Duranty, albeit without the Pulitzer and with only the stench of death surrounding them.
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Time to cross a bat with a monkey
We need to do it so we will be prepared if someone else crosses a bat with a monkey
Tony
Funny …I was just looking at pictures of Gates!
https://www.theweek.co.uk/92041/britons-join-neo-nazi-militia-in-ukraine
Britons join neo-Nazi militia in UkraineUK facing ‘surging and constantly evolving’ threat from far-right terrorism, watchdog warns
2 MAR 2018
https://www.thedailybeast.com/ukraines-anti-russia-azov-battalion-minutemen-or-neo-nazi-terrorists
Ukraine’s Anti-Russia Azov Battalion: ‘Minutemen’ or Neo-Nazi Terrorists?
WOLFSANGELS
In 2014, almost anyone who wanted to fight the Russians in Ukraine was more than welcome. But today one volunteer battalion is accused of white-supremacist terrorism.
Updated Nov. 15, 2019 10:41AM ET / Published Nov. 15, 2019 7:03AM ET
https://www.thedailybeast.com/how-many-neo-nazis-is-the-us-backing-in-ukraine?via=newsletter
How Many Neo-Nazis Is the U.S. Backing in Ukraine?
SWASTIKA-ISH
Not all the members of the Ukrainian ultranationalist militias the U.S. is training have SS tattoos, and not all espouse fascism. But enough do to be worrisome.
Updated Apr. 14, 2017 10:36AM ET / Published Jun. 09, 2015 5:15AM ET
It’s not far right “far-right terrorism” FFS.
Stop using the language of the left to condemn everyone on the right. The right has nothing to do with Naziism, it is antithetical to our beliefs in free market capitalism and human dignity.
I understand your indignation and frustration, but the term “far right” is the usual one for Hitler and the Nazis, who hated those generally referred to as the “far left”: communists.
My problem with terms like “left” and “right” is that they mean too many different things to too many different people.
Most people I’ve met who call themselves “left” genuinely insist that they believe in human dignity. There are fewer who would insist that they support free market capitalism, though I have encountered them.
I find it’s much more helpful to ask what people actually believe; what they support; and what they oppose.
Sorry, but bollox. “In the course of history periods of capitalism and socialism alternate with one another; capitalism is unnatural, socialism the natural economic system… The National Socialists and the Red Front have the same aspirations.” –Heinrich Himmler “The hammer will once more become the symbol of the German worker and the sickle the sign of the German peasant.” – May 1, 1934, Hitler May Day speech in Berlin “What Marxism, Leninism, and Stalinism failed to accomplish, we shall be in a position to achieve.” Otto Wagener in Hitler: Memoirs of a Confidant “But we National Socialists wish precisely to attract all socialists, even the Communists; we wish to win them over from their international camp to the national one.” Otto Wagener in Hitler: Memoirs of a Confidant Hitler attacked Russia not because it was communist, but for its mineral wealth, not least, Oil for his military endeavours. Most people I’ve met who call themselves “left” genuinely insist that they believe in human dignity. Ask them if they believe in the human dignity of Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Hitler, etc. who murdered hundreds of millions of their own people. This is the politics they support. I find it’s much more… Read more »
It seems odd to justify a point by quoting maniacs. It does seem that tyrants often call themselves socialists and democrats or republicans when they are not. There is no communism, socialism or capitalism, never has been. The first 2 require some redistribution of wealth which never happens and the last requires a free, uncorrupted market which there has never been. Everybody knows the stock market is rigged, everybody knows that politicians take bribes, everybody know that corporations are corrupt. everybody knows the bankers are corrupt etc etc. The problem is corruption on all sides. Until the rule of law aplies to rich corrupt people we will never know what is possible and at least let people live in peace. We need to start throwing corrupt people in prison.
Which is the justification for calling them liars.
Even a corrupt free market is better than the alternative.
I couldn’t agree more.
Say it again – Hitler’s 25 point National Socialist political programme was dictated by the Left of his party, led by Ernst Röhm -a right wing Party does not propose nationalisation of the Banks!
Hitler was a National Socialist!
There is an enormous literature on the propaganda purposes of Hitler’s use of the term “socialist”. It was intended to attract the support of a section of the German working class.
Hitler imprisoned socialists and adopted policies which supported the capitalists opposed by German socialists and communists.
Capitalists who were not Jewish saw their profits rise: check Auto Union (later Audi), Bosch, Deutsche Bank, Mercedes-Daimler, Siemens, IG Farben (later Bayer) etc. That was in no small part because many were supplied with slave labour.
Don’t forge the Quandt family.
A memorable lot.
You don’t say.
Nazism is socialist. The clue is in the name. Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei. It therefore is on the far-left end of the political spectrum and any communist v nazi fight is therefore a family quarrel. Just keep repeating it.
Azoz was founded by neo-Nazis. But they leadership left when the government wove it into the national guard specifically to break such groups of power.
if you want to know rise of fascism, watch voting and watch extra-judicial killings. Far right got less vote in Ukraine than Austria, Germany, Italy or France. As for extra-judicial killings, only Russia has done any, both in their own nation and Ukraine.
I really wish people would qualify “far right” when they casually use it to vilify people like me, who are right of current Conservatives (which wouldn’t be difficult), and not casually smear us as being bovver booted, skinhead Nazi’s.
The ‘far right’ as the left would have us believe is ‘the left’. They are the political persuasion that has murdered countless millions of their own people under the likes of Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Hitler and many others.
I object to being casually, and thoughtlessly associated with those vicious murderers simply because, even right wing commentators, are too lazy to think about the subject.
To me, the “far-right” are national socialists, i.e. left wing. I’ll address this in another article, to do with Aaron Mate’s claims. It’s not possible to address every falsehood all the time.
I think it gets muddied depending what you’re talking about. the far right is often what people label those who cant stand immigration and bending over backwards to let black people have all the jobs and preference.
Far right also seems to be aimed at people who aren’t deeply socialist and understand that basic economics means you can’t make everyone in the world rich and famous for zero effort.
Far right also seems to be regarded as an insult, even by those who admit they are on the right. For me it is considered a compliment.
In accusing me of being far right, people are telling me I am not woke, can’t stand immigrants and want hard work and success to be rewarded rather than punished.
I’ll take that all day long.
There are plenty of people who identify as “Left” who would argue that they want hard work to be rewarded. They would be more likely to say that “success” is the reward, and that many receive this at the expense of others.
Those identifying as “Left” are divided on the subject of “being woke” and on immigration. Those who feel more or less as you do argue that “wokism” is a distraction from class politics; those who feel as you do about immigration see it as intended to lower the wages of workers.
Racist immigrant haters is a good place to start the definition of far-right
We certainly don’t need any further racist immigrants. Far too many people have arrived in this country and turned sections of our towns into mini versions of whatever country they’d left.
On a couple of levels, I’m an immigrant, and right wing. Care to discuss your bigoted statement?
But not racist, I trust, and maybe not a hater.
You’re imagining stuff. Unemployment in Britain is much higher among black people (8.6%) than among white people (3.5%).
Diversity and inclusion not working then.
There is a hard core of unemployed in every community, irrespective of turnover of the employed/unemployed.
Nothing you could ever do will make these people employable. You could hand them £500 quid a day and by the second day they would be too wasted to turn up to earn their second £500.
Whats your theory..? Racism..?
Culture.
That was easy.
Surely you know why the NSDAP included the S in its title; and about the assurances it gave on this subject to its very wealthy supporters.
Ian – aside from that why do we need to be involved in this? This is what complete mystifies me. Why does the US Congress vote it immense sums of money which will have to borrowed from China? These are not sentimental people by and large. What hinges on it that people in the UK after what they’ve been through in last two years are supposed to give it financial and emotional commitment, when what really need to do is rebuild our lives. Just as the Covid narrative collapsed suddenly we had Ukraine – it was like going from one TV documentary to another. And suddenly there was terrible reticence about the complex origins of the conflict.
My point is the casual use of the term. Your article is littered with it and ‘Far right’ is, by any definition of political positions, Libertarianism, which is nothing like what ‘far right’ is perceived to be. It’s the complete opposite.
The left have simply distorted the perception of German National Socialism to somehow represent right wing values. I don’t understand how they how they managed it, but I object to it’s casual use every time I come across it.
These are far left values, please refer to them as they are.
I see the political spectrum as a circle, a clock face, not a straight line. Those who desire minimal government and very low taxes lie at 6 o’clock. Nazism and communism lie at midnight, both being collective and murderously authoritarian.
Did you read the article? The author makes exactly this point, the vast majority of the militia/border force aren’t far right.
What are they then? Far left?
My point is, the term ‘far right’ is not what people like you believe it is.
You think it represents Hitler and the third reich. It doesn’t. Far right represents free market capitalism, the right for people to make decisions for themselves, the right to a small government, the right not to be coerced into joining an army to fight overseas wars that are nothing to do with us.
The ‘far right’ don’t believe money is the route of all evil, people are the route of all evil. Money is simply a means by which evil people express their evil.
Free trade and money exchange is as old as humanity itself. There is nothing wrong with it other than the jealousy of those who are not good at it.
I agree with the beat bobby on this point
Traffic cop, please. I enjoyed persecuting drivers like you.
Also firearms, CID, Narcotics and others (yawn) too late to describe other roles, and others I can’t tell you or I would have to kill you (joking, not kill you, but I know lot’s of stuff you will never know) 🤣
BTW, the first time you meet an angry man, wave your Maths certificate at him, I’m sure he’ll be impressed. 🤣
You allow yourself to be trolled so easily.
It’s bait. Easy meat.
Your definition refers to centre-right. If you call yourself far right, then you have some other values you are not confessing to.
Define ‘Far right’ please. I keep asking but nobody does it.
As far as I can tell, far right is anybody who won’t agree with far left
Excellent, now we’re getting somewhere.
Define far left please.
“Free trade and money exchange is [sic] as old as humanity itself.”
Rubbish. Nowhere in the world has money existed for more than a few thousand years.
As for the vast majority of production occurring because those who have lots of money “invest” it in pursuit of profit, that’s only a few hundred years old at most.
Money is a token, like shells which mankind traded as far back in human history as we can establish.
Anyone employing someone to do anything is investing in a resource. It too goes back almost to the dawn of mankind.
Having lot’s of money is not a feature of free trade. It’s a measure of success of free trade but is most certainly not required.
Profit never was the accumulation of wealth now associated with it. Profit was what one employed to sustain and grow a business whilst earning a living oneself.
Excessive profit might be expressed as the likes of Bill Gates and Geoff Bezos who earn vast amounts from their businesses. But the reality is, they invested money in shares at a very early stage and risked what they could.
In very crude terms, they earn an income from the success of their shares, which pay dividends, as others buy shares and increase the value of the business.
I despise Bill Gates because of his narcissistic desire for control. I don’t despise him because of his wealth.
The real point is not about despising people for their wealth, but the effect the existence of mega wealthy players has upon everyone else in the game.
Almost a real life example: Our friend, Bill, has been busy buying vast swathes of American farmland. Set aside all the conspiracy theories about what he is doing, and just imagine he was able to corner the market in food production. Then, if you wanted to eat, it would be on his terms. In effect, he would own you; your choice would be to starve or become his slave. As he is trying out his latest experimental gene therapy upon you (to which you agreed in exchange for the neeps and tatties), you may feel perfectly content, since Mr Gates took risks, and expended effort, to accumulate his nation state-grade fortune. I, by contrast, find that prospect completely appalling, but of course, in your mind, “I’m just a jealous guy” (to quote John Lennon).
Which is what buying up vast tracts of land is.
“Money is a token, like shells which mankind traded as far back in human history as we can establish.”
It isn’t a token. Money is a promise. The shell is the embodiment of the promise, not the shell itself.
Profit is the wages of capital.
And the problem is continuing to get paid for what you did yesterday, not today.
But you are far right, and you sympathise with far right leaders.
LukeWarmScotty = FarRightNutcase
In other words, you have no clue, as usual.
Some things never change.
The issue I took with the author using this comparison of double standards is that he is not seeing the obvious. While the BBC may easily call UKIP a far right organisation based on a few members, which is a blatant smear campaign, in the case of Ukraine, they are actively avoiding even mentioning the actual Nazi elements in the armed forces there.
Why is that? They turn off the smear machine as and when they what to. And so, when we as regular people seek to understand these matters, what are we left with?
We are left with the British Bullshit Corporation.
Agreed. Far right and far left tend to be silly terms when actually used. Essentially the author of whatever article uses these terms to mean “too far” i.e. in their eyes this simply means “extreme” and “impossible to justify”.
I get really frustrated with this, because it means potentially legitimate opinions that sit outside of the overton window (e.g. “money should be free”) get put in the same box as “I believe I’m part of a super-race that deserve world domination”. This obviously makes no sense and the people that use these terms lazily contribute to the problem. (I am not accusing the author of this article of this at all – it’s just a general gripe I have).
To smear everyone in the Ukrainian National Guard in this way is like the BBC’s smearing of UKIP as a ‘far-right’ organisation.
Not really. DS appears not to have heard of the concept of stiffening units which are not nazi-inclined with individuals who are so inclined. This is like having political commissars in the old Red Army. Thus the whole body becomes infected.
FFS. You’re as bad.
See my earlier comment.
I get your point about right v left and its meaninglessness. However, the Azov/racist philosophy is spread widely around the UFA, just as it was in the Wehrmacht (even though there was a difference between the general body and the SS).
The main problem in the world we live in is the propaganda from both sides. Ultimately, common sense has to take be the guide. Did NATO provoke Russia? Well, it certainly looks like it. Does Ukraine have a neo Nazi problem? Well, pre 2022 the answer to that was a clear ‘yes’. Has Ukrainian forces been shelling the Donbas region for years? Again, yes, this was widely accepted pre-2022. Is Putin using the NATO situation and the Donbas as an excuse to gain more territory? Now that’s a more interesting question for me. My bigger concern is that the entire crisis is manufactured, with Putin being complicit and playing a key role. The West have made it crystal clear they do not want to negotiate – the rhetoric coming from Biden (or Biden’s puppeteer) and from Johnson (or Princess Nut Nuts) is very aggressive. What could possibly be gained from actually wanting war which will cause economic chaos? Hmmm, I do wonder…
Did Nato provoke Russia? Pray do tell what were the events that led Russia to amass tens if not hundreds of thousands of troops on the Ukrainian border?
Eh? I never said Russia didn’t plan to invade Ukraine, I implied that amassing NATO forces onto Russia’s border is provocation.
The amassed NATO forces (assuming this refers to the so-called NATO Enhanced Forward Presence) on Russia borders (in the Baltic statelets) amounts to about 3260 people, not all of which are actually combat troups. That’s supposed to be a deterrent, although it’s entirely unclear how it could function as such. If these troops were under orders to put up any actual resistance, the Russians could roll over them even if their soldiers were only armed with pitchforks.
The same Russians that have been mullered by people who’ve never used a gun before?! Yeah ok
The SBU have an interrogation facility in Kramatorsk where for the past eight years they’ve been doing stuff like pulling out fingernails and teeth.
The NHS then……
Good luck getting teeth pulled out by the NHS in less than eight years.
LOL. True. I did think I should have qualified that.
I get it, it’s a typo, I make them all the time, but it didn’t half make me giggle. All those dancing soldiers, Python’esq….🤣
I don’t think Putin objected to 3,260 Nato troops on the Russian border in non NATO regions, although what were they doing in non NATO member states?
Putins objectives were numerous, the creeping nature of NATO and their discussions with Ukraine about membership, the Nazi influence in the country (although That’s an overblown bit of propaganda hype as far as I’m concerned) and the potential for the cleansing of eastern Ukraine ethnic Russians.
He probably (almost certainly) objected to a western puppet government being installed in 2104, rather than a puppet government of his own. The point about that being, the UN didn’t object to the installation of a western puppet government, whilst it would probably have provoked war (in the cause of a harmonious world) over a Russian one.
Except NATO didn’t.
You are getting mixed up
It’s the deranged company that you keep.
Perhaps, the same sort of thinking that persuaded the British government to position 21,000 troops in Ireland for 40 years?
Actually not
The massing of half the armed forces of Ukraine on the border of the Donbass along the Line of contact. That and the ethnic persecution of Russian speakers which could have been reminded by the Minsk Accords, but was not.
The only thing for which Russia can be blamed is not sorting this out in 2014.
Actually Russia started that conflict in 2014.
Interesting to see your evidence for your statement.
Are you referring to Russians who were alleged to be under cover in Ukraine, That sounds rather like the NATO people who were working under cover in Ukraine. Woops!
Pray do tell what were the events that led Russia to amass tens if not hundreds of thousands of troops on the Ukrainian border? The potential ethnic cleansing of Donbas. Putin had stated he had intelligence that indicated this was likely. Seven days prior to his intervention, Western Ukrainian’s mounted an artillery strike of Donbas, for those seven days. Artillery is always a prelude to invasion other than being defensive. Western Ukrainian’s had transported artillery and men to the border, they didn’t do that to defend the west. It was the prelude to an assault. The only other logical reason to bombard Donbas whilst Russia was amassed on the border was to provoke a response. UN article 51 authorises individual or collective defence of an assault on a UN member by that UN member, collectively with another UN member. Which is precisely what the Donbas region and Russia engaged in. Read it on the NATO website (https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/official_texts_16937.htm). It’s a paragraph long and, whilst undoubtedly ambiguous verging on downright confusing, it’s pretty clear that it’s a case of act first and tell the Security Council later. Which makes sense as the risk of information leaking from the UN isn’t just extremely… Read more »
It’s probably sort-of useless to address this excerpt from Russian state news (ie, Putin-controlled MSM) but since it keeps reappearing and tends to obscure real debate: Even when taking all of this at face value, it amounts to Russia invading Ukrainian territory because Putin claimed to be believe that the Ukrainian government was about to make a serious attempt to regain control of the parts of two of its eastern provinces which have been controlled by insurrectionists since 2014. What the Ukrainian government might have done, had it actually made such an attempt and had it succeeded, is just idle speculation. The two eastern provinces were not UN members and nobody attacked them. There’s also no reason to assume that the Ukrainian government would suddenly succeed with something it had failed to achieve for the last 8 years. However, a more likely course of events would seem to be that Putin, apparently more anxious about bad PR than would behove him, was trying to manufacture a pretext for his planned invasion of Ukraine. The sequence of events would than have been as follows: Russian troops are being amassed the eastern and northern borders of Ukraine. Putin’s lapdogs in Donetsk and… Read more »
They were in imminent danger of not being able to attack a neighbouring country, so they were forced to build up the troops.
Had they not done this, nothing would have happened to Russia..
Wait this makes no sense.
By the middle of February 2022, the Ukrainian armed forces were lobbing 2000 shells a day into the breakaway provinces. The real question is what took Russia so long to do what it clearly had to do.
You mean on the Russian border, don’t you.
I see you have chosen the russian propaganda.
The breakaway republics have been shelling Ukraine for years with Russian support. Russia needs to butt out of someone else’s country.
The negotiation process is mainly for Ukraine, not the West. At the moment Putin is not willing to negotiate, he wants surrender.
For this reason useful negotiations are not likely until Putin understands the war can’t be won on the battlefield.
Where have the breakaway republics been shelling Ukraine from, and where is your evidence?
Russia, Ukraine and the UK/UN etc. have been negotiating for the last 8 years and still are. Pillock.
Do you imagine negotiation ends when war begins?
Indeed, the breakaway republics were Ukraine at the time of the alleged shelling and wanted a degree of autonomy whilst staying in Ukraine. I am afraid that is no longer an option.
I don’t think you understand the full consequences of Minsk 2. The tail would have wagged the dog – the rebel republics would have had total independence while also having effective control of Ukraine’s overall foreign policy and defence. It would actually have been much better for Ukraine to lose the breakaways altogether than accept terms like this.
Thank you for that incisive comment.
You’re welcome
What utter rubbish Fingal (as usual). Zelensky today has reject negotiation and is committing his soldiers to die in large numbers in Donbass. This is rumoured to be against the advice of his own general staff who wanted to withdraw their troops (whilst they still could) and reform in more defensible positions. Given that the Ukrainian troops are now divided up into smaller separate groups, and their supply lines are all within easy (and reducing) range of Russian artillery the prospects of victory in Donbass or even withdrawing are vanishingly small. The basis of an agreement already existed weeks ago as a result of the Istanbul talks. The West “persuaded” Zelensky to walk away from this, and the consequence has been the death of thousands of men on both sides, the loss of substantial territory, the destruction of the Ukrainian economy and serious consequences for the rest of the world. In contrast, Russia has seen its currency soar, its reserves increase, new markets opened up away from the West and the West weakened. Europe’s support for Ukraine is starting to fragment. At the moment Putin has everything to gain as the West is increasingly marginalised and the massive economies which… Read more »
Thanks Ian. Delingpole’s podcast has become a freak show. I used to be a fan and patron but he refuses to challenge or even discuss whatever is blurted out by the likes of Clif High, Charlie Ward, Catherine Austin-Fitts or Dr Sam Bailey, presumably because he is clueless on tech, science, philosophy and medicine. I did challenge. I did ask for civil, informed debate but he told me to f-off, so I did, taking my patronage with me.
Delingpole is driven by a massive need to be the cleverest person in the country, which is a massive pity for him. He is obsessed with the fact that he went to Oxford, but because other people also went to Oxford he has to say that it is “finished” and interview a series of hate-filled nobodies to show how discerning he is. What a sad case.
Well, I’m not sure about the rest of that, but Oxford (as well as my alma mater, Cambridge [rather a lot of decades ago]) is certainly teetering on the brink. Not that surprising, I suppose, given the tragic state of ‘education’ in this country after decades of dumbing down!
Oxford is my alma mater. Most of the eco-loon stuff from my college is not my cup of tea, but you only have to spend a few minutes with the undergrads to see that they are brilliant, hard working young people who are wonderful to be around. It’s far from the brink, let alone where Delingpole thinks it is.
Perhaps, Ian Rons, this fellow below who was found cowering in the Mariupol steel work is in the Gendarme? yeah, right!
You are Russian
I don’t agree with him, but you’re pathetic, which is as far as I know is a nationality unique to you.
Present an argument other than Nanananana.
Answer the question Ejit.
There are dozens of images of Nazi-theme tagged Aziv members crawling out of Mariupol.
Burying your head up your arse along with the usual suspects here on DS is standard Empire of Lies MO.
No there are images of tattoos. You have no clue as to where these images came from or if they are real.
Yet, you believe anything that backs up your twisted belief system.
“Empire of lies” indeed
Here’s one Kermit, note the insignia on his shoulder.
Or don’t. Hard to see with your head up your jacksie
And if you do manage to peek out of your alimentary canal, peruse this from surrendering (note, not gloriously withdrawing) Ukie troops at Mariupol
https://youtu.be/zw2fB9RCHVs
Interesting video, although only half a dozen guys, out of what seemed to be a hundred or so, with tattoos.
Multiply by 25 for the 2500 who surrendered
Wow, dozens. Maybe even as many as 36.
Nobody denies that the Azov brigade are a neo-Nazi organisation, read the article to see we are all in agreement over that. But so what? Something can be hideous and small at the same time. The idea that the invasion is justified by a few unsavoury tattoos is just preposterous.
Looking forward to you and your friends welcoming the warm and loving na z is when they eventually integrate into your Battalion.
I won’t weep too much when you try and desert and they shoot you in the back.
Obviously.. and Russian and keen on murder of innocent Ukrainians.
You’re as bad.
And you have got your fingers in your ears, metaphorically.
And how is that any different to the Tweet that forms part of your article?
I believe the Russians are making a point of photographing each and every Nazi tattoo that crawls out of Azovstal – could get very, very embarrassing.
Off topic – sorry.
There has been a statistical rise in long term sickness. Adverse reactions to the vax?
https://twitter.com/ClareCraigPath/status/1526913234917380096
There are more than 300k people off sick long term over 2015-2019 baseline (not counting the ones who got better).
There are 185k people since end of 2021 compared to a year before.
The number of women on long term sick is more than 6 standard deviations from the mean. This is astronomical.
A rise began in 2019, plateaued from March 2020, fell in winter 2021 but rocketed since March 2021.
If this were mental health issues from lockdown or long covid why…wasn’t it seen earlier?
Men have a big rise to – 4 standard deviations from mean.
Again the trajectory does not fit with lockdown related or long covid related timings.
Check the link for the graphs.
“Since end of 2019- we’ve seen a fall of 450,000 (1.3% of labour force- a very large decrease in labour force … The persistence & scale in this drop has been a surprise to us. We’ve seen an increase in long-term sickness in that number – around 320,000 people”
https://twitter.com/dgurdasani1/status/1526536627845320704
The discussion in the video makes it clear that he is referring to economically inactive people out of the workforce…that is, you are not looking for a job.
That means a rise last year in long term disability in the British population. I do not think these people are on their employers sick pay.
These are very worrying signs.
The video on this twitter link looks like it is to a govt committee. The speaker is wholly nonplussed by the drop in the labour force and the rise in long term sickness. As are some of the tweets underneath, who are upset because the committee members are unmasked.!!!
Off topic…. Vaccines are great.
Get on topic.
What strikes me is how utterly this war is not in the interests of ordinary citizens in the West – why are people who were ostensibly terrified of Covid not bothered about WW3. Ukraine is the most failed of failed states while tens of billions are being poured in by politicians whose motives we can barely comprehend. We have no more reason for emotional commitment than Syria or Yemen. We recently abandoned Afghanistan to its fate with extreme ruthlessness and incompetence. What, I think, Ian Rons can’t explain is why.
Spot on.
There is a reason for US and EU meddling in Ukraine over the last 2/3 decades, and its precious little to do with ‘democracy’.
Its bait the bear time. I am very suspicious about the timing.
It’s called 10% sales commission.
He just debunked a pro-russia story. Your stuff is generalised mixed-up drivel.
Weak
So daily Skeptics has truly been compromised.
What a sad state of affairs.
we have this complete tool of mind fuck land trying to use typically lame argumentation methodology trained from debate class to try and convince us that our support for little miss Nazi pawn Zelenski is really good and the sceptical position. After all this is the daily Skeptic.
So I guess it’s time to dump my support for this POS rag.
Bye. Don’t let the door hit your………….
So original. Actually you really strike me as one of the lamest posters I’ve seen on these boards.
I’d be surprised if you broke 105 on IQ tests.
Have you had one?
When you’re capable of posting more than a four line comment, let me know.
Good of Toby’s mate Delingpole to put up a straw man for us to find mendacious enough so to buy back into the UK Legacy Media narrative.
I, for one, don’t pay too much heed to Baud but nor do I pay much heed to the “poor innocent Ukraine” bullshit.
And at the end of the day, I don’t feel safer because of the west’s treatment of this war.
You go for the innocent Russia bullshit then?
Do you buy into the innocent west bullshit then?
It does look like Russia invaded Ukraine.
Of course they did, but the numpties on here seek to justify it. One trick ponies the lot of them, they saw the covid lie now they think everything western is a lie
Maybe the Chinks knew this?
Talking of one-trick ponies ………
Intervened before an ethnic cleansing as far as I can assess.
Unlike the west, which lets ethnic cleansing occur in places like Rwanda and Bosnia before stepping in.
Why don’t you piss off to Rwanda, Bosnia or China then instead of constantly complaining about the West that gave you a comfortable life and career for your zero talent?
Might be an option whilst you zombies freeze and starve to death in your Net Zero utopia.
Who complained about the west. I pointed out an acknowledged fact.
Need to take your angry head off mate.
PS I lived in China. Nice place.
Remember when ethnic cleansing was regarded as just cause for military intervention ? Ditto: preemptive actions ?
That’s what I thought.
Not very sceptical of Irons not to have considered the false flag possibility. (Even our prime minister has recognised the false flag as a genuine phenomenon, rather than an invention of crazy conspiracy theorists,)
Excellent forensic article. Every time I have investigated Russian excuses for the invasion I have also found the facts to be either incorrect or wildly exaggerated. Just on the increased shelling in Donbas in the week prior to the invasion, as far as I can see there are three possibilities: A) The separatist side (with extensive hidden Russian military support) launched a much increased bombardment on 16 February and subsequent days to provoke the Ukrainian military into answering in kind. The latter did so, naturally thinking this was either a part of or a softening up prelude to the now much flagged imminent invasion; in other words they acted in self-defence. B) US intelligence, which got just about everything else right about the Russian movements and intentions, predicted a false flag event being used as an excuse to invade. Under this theory the separatist / Russian side could have been responsible for the large majority of the observed explosions within their own territory, either ensuring that shells dropped short into unmanned sectors, or even more safely carried out ground explosions of pre-planted ordinance. An OSCE observer at any distance away would not have been able to tell the difference between that… Read more »
Shush! The Mutton heads on here believe the US is evil and Putin is smart.
Answering your own Battalion comments is a sure sign of retardation.
You don’t like the site, bog off and flog your dolphin at Politico, Grauniad, New Statesman* etc…
*other tone deaf, left wing lying, gaslighting bile-factories are available….
An ugly rant!
Run out of arguments?
You have a nerve accusing others of ugly rants.
You might have misread me, I am as right wing and “anti covid” as they come – I just don’t blame the west for an evil tyrant’s atrocities like most of the idiots on here do
Evil and tyrant.
Like every WEF Young Leader who now heads nearly every western “democracy” ?
Do you not see where COVID came from, where NATO inevitably leads, where Net Zero terminates ( i. e. the populace who it’s applied to)?
Trump was the first POTUS in living memory not to begin a new conflict in his first term.
His predecessor was Obama, a Democrat. His successor, Biden, a Democrat.
Putin and Trump seemed to have a reasonable relationship, the foundation of the discredited claims of Russian collusion (which are now subject to the Durham Investigation).
But somehow Trump and Putin are cast as the evil entities over the last five and a half years, by complicit governments and collusive left wing media.
And you don’t think that all stinks?
If there were ever a need for a sanity check, that would be it.
Agree re Trump, but we cannot escape the fact that Putin is deliberately murdering thousands of people to steal land
Covid didn’t happen spontaneously or in a vacuum, it followed decades of corruption, the hollowing out / corporatisation and corruption of governments and agencies; the tools used to surveil ordinary citizens wasn’t dreamt up in 2020. We in the west have been living under corrupt tyranny and creeping totalitarianism for years and years. How can you see that covid was bulllshit, and then on this issue believe every word of the same media that lied to you incessantly for the last two years? Did you follow what happened in Syria? You can’t have done, or you would be a lot more ambivalent about the ‘evils’ of Putin’s Russia.
Scepticism is a part time activity for most covid objectors. It was nice when they were scared, but when it’s safe to enter the sheep pen again, they compliantly do.
It’s infuriating!
LOL, you credit Biden with ‘smarts’?
Biden is a lily livered senile old idiot, Putin and Xi have been waiting (or perhaps planning) for such a weak Western leader.
Where did I say Biden was smart you silly old fool?
But I thought Trump was the warmonger colluding with Putin.
Why didn’t Putin take his chance when Trump was POTUS?
Meanwhile, Russia has smashed all Ukraine’s heavy weaponry, and withdrawn to the east. had he wanted to take Ukraine he has 2,000,000 troops who could have accomplished that in a week. Why did he only turn up with a fraction of that, then do precisely what he said he would do and defend ethnic Russians in Eastern Ukraine.
Your Putin Derangement Syndrome is as bad as Trump Derangement Syndrome.
Because he’d never have got away with it with a strong president like Trump. Xi and Putin probably couldn’t believe their luck that they managed to fiddle the election and get this old dope in
There is nothing wrong, with the US, that regime change and a Putin appointee, add ten million Chinese wouldn’t solve.
Unlikely that the geographic area of Russia has anything to do with anything. There are quite a few more populous countries.
Your analysis appears to depend on there only being two countries involved, this is somewhat naive.
Whilst Russia’s ‘largest geographical country’ status isn’t reflected in its conventional military might (though it still far outnumbers and outguns Ukraine) it is in its possession of the largest nuclear arsenal in the world (over 6000).
Quite intimidating.
In any case that expression was really just used to add a bit of dramatic colour to the piece, its absence would not have changed any of the substantive elements.
The main one being that the claim that Ukraine decided to launch a new military onslaught on the separatists in Donbas at precisely the same moment when intelligence suggested their country was about to be invaded by a massive Russian force seems a little, well… unconvincing…
The Russian nuclear arsenal is matched by the US nuclear arsenal. That was the point of the nuclear proliferation treaty.
Much of Russia’s former nuclear arsenal went to help power American nuclear power stations.
It’s not in question, it’s a documented fact by the OSCE Special Monitoring Mission to Ukraine.
5,000 artillery rounds were used on the border of Donbas.
How many by the rebels, how many by Ukraine?
It doesn’t matter dummy. The fact that western Ukraine had transported their artillery to the Donbas border is sufficient to identify them as the aggressor.
Eastern Ukraine has not been invading western Ukraine for the last 8 years, it’s precisely the opposite.
If what Putin has done was deemed illegal then troops from other UN Nations could have been legitimately rolled in to support western Ukraine. But they weren’t.
That should tell you all you need to know.
One of your more remarkably silly arguments. They’ve been at war since 2014.
The rebel republics are and always have been a Russian invasion of Ukrainian territory
The UN doesn’t have any troops, you buffoon. Individual countries loan them. The West doesn’t want war so it has limited its response to arms supplies.
Read what I actually posted bollock brains.🙄
“….then troops from other UN Nations….”
Prove your made up statements doughnut. Give us all some evidence. But you won’t, you never do.
Just make shit up as usual.
You are slow so I will repeat: the UN can’t ‘roll in’ troops because it hasn’t got any. No UN approval is required for anyone to support Ukraine, either in arms supply or on the ground troops.
You have been asked to differentiate between the parties’ rounds many times and failed to do so.
Sorry, I don’t understand what you’re asking.
Are you asking me to identify between opposing artillery fire?
Satellite observations can identify those by muzzle flashes and impact sites.
But that’s not the point. The fact western Ukraine’s artillery has been transported to the Donbas border, when over the last 8 years western Ukraine has been the aggressor in the east, is sufficient to identify them as the aggressor.
Why haven’t UN countries rolled in armour to help? Because Russia legally invoked article 51 and the west knows it’s right.
You constructed a wholly false argument based on your failure to understand the OSCE reports and UN law. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that was out of ignorance. But seeing as you persist with this, you are an outright liar.
Article 51
of the Charter of the United Nations
24 Oct. 1945 -|Last updated: 01 Oct. 2009 15:42
“Nothing in the present Charter shall impair the inherent right of individual or collective self-defence if an armed attack occurs against a Member of the United Nations, until the Security Council has taken measures necessary to maintain international peace and security. Measures taken by Members in the exercise of this right of self-defence shall be immediately reported to the Security Council and shall not in any way affect the authority and responsibility of the Security Council under the present Charter to take at any time such action as it deems necessary in order to maintain or restore international peace and security.”
Where does it demand permission is sought dummy?
If Article 51 had existed in 1939, Hitler could have ‘invoked’ it in the same way, with about as much justification as Putin.
Absolutely anyone can claim Article 51 applies. What matters is whether the UN agrees – and they don’t.
You are consistently the least interesting contributor to this website.
Russia wasn’t threatening to invade the US but rather Ukraine, which has zero nuclear weapons.
On your other point I can only assume you haven’t seen my first post above. In any case I am well aware of the OSCE reporting, and wasn’t challenging the extent of observed explosions (not necessarily identified as artillery rounds) at the time in the region.
What wasn’t known in the overwhelming majority of cases was the direction of any rounds (incoming or outgoing) or indeed whether they might have been purely ground explosions, which is relevant to the ‘false flag’ theory.
In any case please see my first post for my overall analysis, and resultant near certain rejection of the Russian position on this which you quoted me on.
Just goes to show how limited your vision is.
Thankfully, someone has had a stab at an analysis of the situation rather than screaming “fascist nazi Ukrainian hater” at anyone who dares to examine why Russia would attack Ukraine. I like your comments in A). Very rational and factual as far as I can gather. The only issue I have is that the artillery activity on the border of Donbas, was on the border of Donbas and the shooting was at least two way according to OSCE observers. Which is almost beside the point because, after eight years of assaults on Donbas by western Ukraine, their artillery is stationed on the western side of the Donbas border. I stand to be corrected here but, as far as I can gather, there has been no insurgency from east to west. Therefore, artillery fire from west to east must be considered the aggressor. The artillery has been transported from the west to the Donbas border. On that basis, artillery ramped up over the seven days prior to Russia’s intervention, whilst Russian troops were on the Russia/Ukraine border could only have been for one of two reasons: As a prelude to invasion of Donbas, which is the principle purpose of artillery. To… Read more »
Once again, literally anybody can quote Article 51. What matters is whether the UN itself accepts that it applies. And they don’t.
Obviously you haven’t read Article 51. It does not require permission.
It’s only a paragraph long Fingers, even you can manage it.
Just to clarify
I don’t think the UN has taken any measures yet.
Same drivel as before.
Ukraine could invoke Article 51 too, which means that both sides would be claiming UN justification to fight each other.
Stupid? Yes it is.
Or rather, yes you are.
“Putin was, according to our media, defiant, and threatened nuclear retaliation if a NATO member intervened. There has been barely a murmur of objection to this from the west. All we have heard is of the heroic effort to arm the Ukrainian’s against the oppressive Russians. No effort has been made to say, “eff you Vlad, you’re in the wrong here and we’re rolling our troops in and if you don’t like it, we have a nuclear arsenal better than yours”. To use an alleged lack of condemnation of the Putin regime and its captive media’s near daily repugnant nuclear threats (not just if if Russia was directly attacked but if anyone intervened with conventional military force in Ukraine) as a tacit acknowledgement that Russia was in the right over this is stretching things to way past breaking point. First of all there was in fact a massive amount of horrified condemnation amongst politicians and media in the West (including UK). The reason that this did no translate into ‘lets roll the troops in and if that leads to a mass nuclear exchange (as it almost inevitably would) then so what’, is because of this very humanitarian horror (not a… Read more »
I am shocked, I tell you, shocked that a guest on James Dellingpole’s podcast is a crackpot who is full of crap.
About as shocked as I am that you’re not pushing up the daisies being XXX jabbed. Here’s hoping eh?
Please, get off your mother’s computer and find a girlfriend, the world could do with a little less of your frustration.
Married with kids simpleton.
Didn’t spill my seed on my mom’s basement floor.
That statement is not very woke of you and makes all sorts of deprecated assumptions.
And you think that you are a good person?
At least I’m not a
Just when you think this forum is lost to conspiracy theorists and crackpots, you get a genuinely high class article like this.
Excellent journalism, the best I have read here.
I now understand the source of some of the daft claims that have been circulating here.
Like anything else Fingers, if it doesn’t suit you, you attack it. If it does suit you, you applaud it.
You have zero ability to critically analyse anything. Everything is face value to you.
Your extreme right wing views don’t suit me
I love the way you’re trying to persuade everyone that Hitler was not actually right wing, so it’s ok for you to be to the right of him
Hey sucker, get a load of this.
https://research.calvin.edu/german-propaganda-archive/haken32.htm
Chapter and verse son. If you don’t concede the point, you are most certainly a Nazi.
Show an example of your critical thinking.
Read the room doughnut.
At a loss as to why you waste your time with ‘crackpots and conspiracy theorists’ – doesn’t add up; what are you hoping to achieve?
He has no achievements. But he keeps trying. He was a cunt during covid. So no reason to think he would improve during bull shit crisis mark 2.
Ian Rons hasn’t a clue.
But I do have a beer. Cheers!
I think you had too many beers when you wrote this article. Baud is just one of many geopolitical analysts who has seen through the Western lies and propaganda. The facts are …… Ukraine, with help from the West, have been waging war against ethnic Russians since the US led coup of 2014. In that year 97% of Ukrainians in Crimea democratically voted to reject their neo-Nazi supporting national government for closer ties with Russia. The republics of Donetsk and Luhansk voted by a similar margin. Ethnic Russians in the east left the Ukrainian military and took their hardware to the Donbass to set up autonomous regions to protect their citizens fleeing from the Ukrainian army and neo-Nazi militias. Zelensky was elected because he said he would end the conflict in the Donbass. He did exactly the opposite. He vowed to take back Crimea by force and join Nato and have nuclear weapons. Ukraine ignored the Minsk peace agreements. Zelensky banned the use of the Russian language which the vast majority in the east and south of Ukraine use. In February 2022 Ukraine were massing their military for a “final solution” against the… Read more »
Be good if Ian crafted a post to answer your post GHF, mite be a bit more difficult than knocking down Dellingpoles strawmen tho.
Cheers.
My post is all verifiable with links if needed.
Let me compare Rons’ well reasoned, evidence based article with your 5 word reply.
On balance, Rons comes out if that comparison quite well.
Do you have something specific to say about the content?
If you do, it could make you look bright.. otherwise.,……not bright.
So Ian Rons, guys like these just members of the Gendarme?
just like this nice fella?
But do please tell us more about your non-affiliation with Russia.
No point engaging with them.
We’ve got a nasty bout of thread crabs on this one, including the author itself.
Back off. Ian has submitted a thoughtful piece. You may not agree with it, in which case, submit your own piece instead of sniping.
No.
Thoughtful, not in the least. If you read it carefully, he sneakily mines the whole post with untruths, projections and standard Empire of Lies talking points.
No time to be giving any quarter to apologists of the fascist Western pols.
I am utterly embarrassed and ashamed to be a resident of HM’s Zone A.
The sooner the multi polar world overtakes this western zombie society the better.
Submit your rebuttal then.
Try a statement that makes sense.
I can’t vouch for the other poster, but I STAND WITH RUSSIA.
I don’t stand with any side here. I would just like to understand the truth.
You’ll have to incorporate sources not shot through with prior hatred for Putin. All others are singing from the same hymn book.
So now we’ve worked out that the post author is a Commissioned Officer in the 77th.
Very poor.
Are you a simpleton..lord snoopy is a raging Russian war enthusiast, just like you.
Ad homs.
Debate 101 fail.
Is that a sperm attached to a Nazi key? I’m struggling to think of a more embarrassing tattoo.
So you have found some nazi tattoos, online.
Call that evidence?
You need verified information on all the army, to make your case.
And your “evidence” is sourced from where? Oh, of course, no evidence, just opinion.
So the Ukrainians were openly Nazi and those that tolerate Nazis … and I guess the rest are “only following orders”.
Putin’s private army is the Nazi affiliated Wagner Group. Which he sent into Ukraine to hunt out Zelensky who is…Jewish.
History repeats itself, I guess
I don’t think you’ve got any evidence to back up that assertion, sorry, don’t believe you.
His Nazis are better than your Nazis.
I’ve given him a kicking over that stupid statement before. It makes no difference, he just regurgitates his bile on every post no matter what evidence is presented.
Whatever the pretense, I relish watching Putin breaking the Unipolar World.
The unipolar world is laughing at Putin and his long table and crap army.
US and its poodle UK isolating themselves from the larger world. Meantime, Russia, what with its washing machine parts army, is grinding Europe’s second-largest army to dust.
Are you triplejabbed?
You obviously don’t understand symbolic gestures in diplomacy.
Well done to the author for challenging the fake facts that this publication seems happy to publish.
Fake facts?! An unusual term. Can you give us some examples of fake facts?
I think the troll means “heretic” facts. There is no way facts can turn around such fanatical psuedo-religious befiefs.
Yeah. If anybody calls the Azov regiment “neo-Nazi”, the authorised pro-NATO trollface response is “Well, some of them have indeed been photographed carrying swastika flags, but you can’t prove they’re all neo-Nazis, can you? Ner ner ni ner ner!”
Personally I am so fast that no sealion will ever catch me.
I can’t believe this guy can get his articles printed by an otherwise respectable publication like The Daily Sceptic when he’s done far less reading on the subjects he’s writing on than everyone commenting on his work.
For a well researched breakdown of Nazi influence in Ukrainian military and politics see Ian Davis’ article in UK Column:
https://www.ukcolumn.org/index.php/article/does-ukraine-need-to-be-denazified
My thoughts entirely. I suppose it’s an attempt to appear balanced; but to take the author’s position, you really do need to have your fingers in your ears and try your best not to look at any context.
It is done simply to stimulate response. Look at the comment count and compare it to other articles.
He seems to maintain the website for Toby. I guess that explains his visibility,
More third rate tripe from Rons.
For a proper sceptical analysis, even from someone describing Putin’s actions as “idiotic and brutal”, try Peter Hitchens:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-10840777/PETER-HITCHENS-explain-called-evacuation-not-surrender.html
Seems like the MSM can be more sceptical than a so-called sceptical website when Rons is around.
Thank you Mr Ron, for looking into this. I, too, went and listened to this after London Calling. I found myself slightly suspicious at the start of the discussion when he said: “Our government…. Eh, I mean the Russian government.” The thing that stood out for me was that, supposing everything he said was true (and I’ve no doubt ordinary Russian speakers have been treated appallingly in Ukraine), and if Putin was stricken with worry about these human rights abuses taking place in that country, would all this justify a war? Angry about the Minsk agreement not being adhered to? Does this justify war and all the bloodshed? Of course is doesn’t and Baud leaves me cold if he was hoping to inspire any sympathy for Russian military actions. This doesn’t mean I’m now going to absorb all the coverage in DM or elsewhere. I will just carry on with my search for accurate details of what’s going on in Ukraine.
Putin executed a special military operation.
The West wanted the war.
Putin has never told us but perhaps you can – what’s the difference between a special military operation and a war?
Go look for yourself.
War for Russia is deploying more than 10% of its useable forces.
One is conducted to gain long term political control over conquered territory, the other is to solve a problem which polite negotiations failed to do.
I travel to Poland frequently and have observed the refugees- women, children with cats and dogs. Millions of people. This “special military operation” description is ordure. Yes, West want a long war to drain Russian resources and to make them think twice about doing any such thing again. Nelson wrote about all this in the Telegraph weeks ago.
It’s easy enough to ascertain what’s going on in Ukraine. According to sources not shot-through with prior hatred for Putin, Russia is methodically grinding the US, er, Ukrainian war machine to dust.
‘Angry about the Minsk agreement not being adhered to? Does this justify war and all the bloodshed?’
Russia, like other countries, is allowed to have its own foreign policy. In Ukraine it clearly sees an existential threat. Large faction of Russia hating nazi extremists with NATO backing and arms, biological weapons labs, a government happy to cut the water supply to Crimea off, open, government-backed discrimination against Russian speakers and a leader who has expressed a desire to regain nuclear weapons. That’s more than enough reason to take action in my opinion. The war is a tragedy of course. Wars are. But the United States and the UK have literally flattened countries on far, far more spurious grounds.
“the Skripals simply had a bad case of ‘food poisoning’”
Ian,
I suspect you are a little too ready to take the majority belief as the truth.
Have you ever “debunked” this chap’s analysis?
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/07/the-holes-in-the-official-skripal-story/
The defining characteristic of a conspiracy theorist is that he is immune to data which contradicts the theory.
By contrast, the sort of thinking pioneered by the Ancient Greeks and which forms the basis of western advances in science and technology is to remain open to contrary data. Conspiracy thinking is the default mode of the non-western world.
These days a conspiracy theorist is a bloke who’s tired of being right all the time.
Not just these days. They are never wrong. In their own minds.
A safe and effective analysis I guess.
“But with events like the massacres in Bucha (which Baud has also denied), the rapes, forced deportations and the deliberate bombardment of civilians.”
How did Ian leave out the Ghost of Kyiv, the Snake Island “Spartans”, the attempted melting down of Chernobyl, firing a Soviet era rocket on an ethnic-Russian enclave, Russian generals killed twenty times over, etc. ?
Truth is always the first casualty of war. Are we to believe ‘Ukraine, angels. Russia, devils’, told to us by politicians who have lied to us throughout Covid and driven by media who are neither impartial nor questioning.? I choose to believe neither.
‘that the Holocaust partly took place on Ukrainian soil.’
The actual physical evidence indicates that the Holocaust didn’t take place at all.
The documentary made by the Jew David Cole called Cole goes to Auschwitz was an early documentary exposing the lies and deception that was used to create the Holocaust propaganda lie.
Absolute rubbish.
Delete your account.
I fear that Delingpole has “jumped the shark” with his anti-Nato narrative.
I think that it’s time for a divorce and for London Calling to continue, Toby needs to find a new sidekick.
This article is weak and ignores the herd of elephants in the room. Was the US involved in regime change in Kiev in 2014 by co-opting neo nazis? Most likely, yes. Was the Ukrainian army bombing Donbas for 8 years, killing many thousands, while many ethnic Russians did not recognize the new government as legitimate? Undeniable. Did the Zelensky regime refuse to sign up to the Minsk accord? Yes. Is NATO at war with Russia using Ukrainians as cannon fodder and pouring arms and funds into a lost cause? Very probably, yes. Does the US have a motive to destabilise Russia via military action in ukraine, and does the US have a record of regime change? I’d say so…. Conclusion: neither side is blameless, but the collective west’s involvement in prolonging a war which is lost — especially after goading the Zelensky regime with false promises — is morally bankrupt.