Russian State News Agency Paints Alarming Picture of the “Denazification” of Ukraine

One of the key justifications offered by Vladimir Putin for his invasion of Ukraine was that the country had come under the spell of Nazis and had to be “denazified”. We know of course neo-Nazi groups have been active in Ukraine and extreme right-wing parties have had some support in elections. But just a few percentage points. This is why at the start those claims sounded like typical hollow propaganda, a weak and flimsy justification for the invasion.

An article this week by Timofei Sergeitsev, translated from RIA Novosti, a Russian state-owned news agency, sheds new light on the proposed denazification and what it really means. Reading this, one is simply at loss for words.

The article is titled “What Russia Should Do with Ukraine” and the author starts by claiming the denazification of Ukraine is inevitable and has now moved to “the practical level”. He says a significant part of the population, and probably the majority, have become Nazis. He then goes on to lay out the plan. First, Nazis must be destroyed on the battlefield, and the author makes no distinction between the Ukrainian army and independent armed groups – all are Nazis. Next comes the punishment of “active Nazis”, and remember this includes the whole Ukrainian military, and the punishment should be “exemplary” and “demonstrable”; thinking about what that might mean sends a chill down one‘s spine.

But this is not all. Sergeitsev claims a large portion of the population are “passive Nazis”. What should be done with them then? The methods proposed are “re-education, which is achieved by ideological repression (suppression) of Nazi attitudes and severe censorship: not only in the political sphere, but necessarily also in the sphere of culture and education”. Even the country‘s name must be eradicated. This is expected to take a generation.

The article claims Ukraine is “impossible as a nation-state” for it will always descend into Nazism. Furthermore, denazification essentially means de-Europeanisation. In other words, Europeans in general are Nazis.

There is something about the kind of claims made in this article that reminds one of the propaganda against European Jews in the 19th and early 20th century – the smearing of an entire people via vague and crass generalisations. One can only wonder what would happen to those who would not yield to the “re-education” and “ideological repression”. We all know what happened to the Jews and other undesirable groups in Europe in the 1940s, to the Bosnian Muslims and the Tutsi of Rwanda in the early 1990s, just to name a few examples of where our ever-present inclination towards branding and exclusion, based on nationality, race, culture or beliefs, can lead.

Since the start of the war, I have been very sceptical of the more radical claims regarding Putin‘s intentions in Ukraine. But in the context of his speeches, the way the war has played out, and the fact this article has been published by a state-owned news agency, it is difficult not to conclude the views expressed are at least not contrary to the views of the authorities. And if so, events such as the destruction of Mariupol and the massacre in Bucha are easier to understand.

It can be seen from the comments on the original article that about two thirds of the commenters disapprove of Sergeitsev‘s article while a third approve. This might be an indication of the acceptance of the author‘s views. If a third of Russians approve of not only invading a neighbouring country, but eradicating it; ruining its culture, heritage and even its name, this tells us things are much worse than one would have suspected. I have sought reactions from friends in Russia and with ties to Russia in order to better understand how popular this view is. I will finish by quoting of one of them: “Russia is not a monolith. But yes, there are enough Russians who believe Ukraine doesn’t deserve to exist as a state.”

Thorsteinn Siglaugsson is an economist who lives in Iceland. Find him on his blog.

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Mumbo Jumbo
4 years ago

But we have been told incessantly that everything every Russian says is a lie. So why would it suddenly change with this article and why would you choose to publicize this one piece when ignoring all other Russian news?

BeBopRockSteady
4 years ago
Reply to  Mumbo Jumbo

Indeed.

And if we are to accept it now as true, what is to be done with all these Nazis?

David Beaton
David Beaton
4 years ago

The Russians have an answer and I suspect it is not “Politically Correct”!

crisisgarden
4 years ago
Reply to  Mumbo Jumbo

Very much like the typical schizophrenic Western accounts of Russia in which they’re always simultaneously about to collapse and also conquer Europe!

Ron Smith
Ron Smith
4 years ago
Reply to  crisisgarden

Or than one moment Putin is evil and responsible for War crimes, next his commanders are too scared to tell him what’s going on. Make your bloody mind up. But the Wagner Group has Nazis too including the leader I hear. Nazis killing Nazis, Smoke & Mirrors.

MTF
MTF
4 years ago
Reply to  Ron Smith

Or than one moment Putin is evil and responsible for War crimes, next his commanders are too scared to tell him what’s going on.

No contradiction. He gives orders that include how to treat civilians in captured territory. The invasion goes badly but his commanders daren’t tell him what a cockup it all is. However, they do occupy some territory for some time and while there carry out his instructions re civilians.

Actually I don’t think that is the most plausible account, but it is consistent.

My guess is Putin created a culture of treating Ukrainian citizens as Nazis whose lives are unimportant. (He has a track record of using extreme violence to get his way). I doubt he ordered the specific atrocities in Bucha and the like but when the occupying forces found themselves in a mess and surrounded by hostile citizens they lost control. It is hardly a new phenomenon in war.

Fingal
Fingal
4 years ago
Reply to  Mumbo Jumbo

The lie is that Ukrainians are Nazis.

Mumbo Jumbo
4 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

There is no doubt that some Ukrainians are Nazis. The lie is to imply that all Ukrainians are. The fact is that some Ukrainians have very few reasons to love their government, which has managed to kill thoudands over the last few years by very violent means.

Fingal
Fingal
4 years ago
Reply to  Mumbo Jumbo

Yes, and some Russians are Nazis. There are people who copy the imagery and maybe worse than that in many countries. Which personally I find hard to understand.

Under Russian controlled governments, Ukraine was a corrupt and largely impoverished state. Since their expulsion, it has been on the road to success, despite having to contend with Putin’s proxy war in the Donbass.

It’s abundantly clear that Putin totally miscalculated on Russian sympathy in Ukraine. His invasion has turned the population as a whole against Russia forever.

Ukrainian patriotism has surged. They support their government in a way that Afghans did not (even if they didn’t like the Taliban much either). The difference is extraordinary and it has led to Russian defeat around Kyiv.

Nevertheless Putin retains an overwhelming material advantage in air power, artillery and heavy armour – if he could only get his army to fight properly.

crisisgarden
4 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

Congratulations, with an interpretation like that you could land a top job at The BBC. Are you Lyse Doucet?

Fingal
Fingal
4 years ago
Reply to  crisisgarden

 Are you Lyse Doucet?

I hope not.

crisisgarden
4 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

Victoria Nuland?

Londo Mollari
4 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

Do you self identify as Lyse Doucet?

Fingal
Fingal
4 years ago
Reply to  Londo Mollari

Personally I find her style irritating, there are better reporters.

Rowan
Rowan
4 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

Name your favourite.

Londo Mollari
4 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

When kruschev was Soviet leader, was that a Russian-controlled government? Kruschev was Ukrainian.

Fingal
Fingal
4 years ago
Reply to  Londo Mollari

Kruschev was Ukrainian.

So what?

In any case, I’m talking about post independence presidents such as Yanukovych.

Ron Smith
Ron Smith
4 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

The one removed by a US backed coup

Rowan
Rowan
4 years ago
Reply to  Londo Mollari

Anf Stalin was a Georgian.

Fingal
Fingal
4 years ago
Reply to  Rowan

And Hitler was Austrian, Napoleon was Corsican. What’s the point of this?

Bungle
4 years ago
Reply to  Rowan

And George was a Stalinist .

Dan777
Dan777
4 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

There is alot to disagree with here. Some Russians are Nazis. Putin agreed with this assessment but added that they are not within government and the government does not make deals with them. Under the US infiltration, Ukraine is corrupt and remained largely impoverished. Take a look how many US Senators have their own children on the board of Ukrainian energy companies. As more details of Hunter Bidens latptop emerge, we should also learn more about US ties to biolabs in Ukraine. ‘Putins proxy war in Donbass’, as you call it, has been to support the wantaway separatists who have been targeted and shelled by the Ukrainian army since 2014 (killing thousands) The 2014 US-lead coup, lead to Crimea, then Lugansk and Donetsk holding regional elections and voting to be part of Russia again. Putin accepted Crimea but did not allow Lugansk and Donetsk. Since this time, the Ukrainian army has targeted the people living in these regions. The West has ignored and allowed this. The Ukrainian army was stockpiling arms since December 2021 (courtesy of the US) and was preparing to attack Donbass on March 8th. Putin could see the signs and warned of what would happen. Last ditch… Read more »

Fingal
Fingal
4 years ago
Reply to  Dan777

There is alot to disagree with here.

You’re absolutely right!

  • Zelenksy is not a Nazi and neither is his government. On the whole, Nazism is a bad strategy if you’re Jewish
  • Russia used their stranglehold on hydrocarbons to dominate Ukraine and other ex Soviet republics. The leadership of Ukraine was hopelessly corrupted up until the revolutions, and this was the reason they gravitated to the EU in the first place
  • The US did not engineer Euromaidan and neither did Putin. It took both of them by surprise.
  • The boundaries of Ukraine, for better or worse, were agreed by Russia and endorsed at the UN. The rebellion in Donetsk and Lugansk would never have started without Putin’s encouragement, and would have ended long ago without continued Russian military intervention.
  • Russia’s intervention was not lawful and most certainly has not been declared so.
  • Russia could not join NATO because under Putin it’s not a democracy and doesn’t follow the rule of law, which is a NATO requirement.
  • Why people who call themselves sceptics swallow anything Putin saysI don’t understand. He hasn’t even admitted there’s a war on yet. What do you think? Is it war?
Dan777
Dan777
4 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

Zelensky is not a Nazi. He is also the only Jewish head of state in the world in any country except Israel. He is also not a democratically elected leader.

The US, specifically the CIA engineered the Euromaidan. The CIA has been established in Ukraine since the end of WW2. Lots of good videos on Youtube about this. Watch them before they are censored.

It could be argued that Putin encouraged the Donetsk and Lugansk by accepting Crimea to Russia (historically a Russian port) but not them. You could also argue that both regions did not show any agitation to leave rejoin Russia until the US lead coup in 2014.

Russia’s intervention is lawful under international law. Everything else is just noise and conjecture.

Russia can’t join NATO because there would be no reason for NATO to exist if they did.

Yesterday, Russia requested an urgent meeting at the UN Security Council to investigate what has taken place in Bucha, and this meeting and investigation was blocked by a vote from…… the UK.

Fingal
Fingal
4 years ago
Reply to  Dan777

The US did not engineer Euromaidan and yes, I’ve seen all the conspiracy evidence. The infamous Nuland call in fact reveals that the US did not plan the revolution, although they certainly tried to influence the choice of successor (so did Russia).

Influence, not control.

Russia’s interventions are not legal, show me where they are declared legal.

NATO would have ceased to exist if Putin hadn’t been stupid enough to invade Ukraine.

Dan777
Dan777
4 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

https://christopher-black.com/the-legality-of-war/

According to Article 2(4) of the Charter all member states are obliged to refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial or political integrity of any state. There are two important exceptions to this obligation, the first being the right of individual or collective self-defence under Article 51 and the collective enforcement by the Security Council on the basis of Chapter VII of the Charter which deals with threats to the peace, breaches of the peace and acts of aggression. The inherent right of self-defence, individually or collectively, with the support of other states, exists so long as the Security Council has not taken measures to “maintain international peace and security.” That right, therefore is meant to be a measure of last resort.

Fingal
Fingal
4 years ago
Reply to  Dan777

Obscure blogs on the internet don’t determine international law. Show us where the UN authorised Putin’s invasion.

Instead, there are UN resolutions calling for the withdrawal of Russian forces, even from Crimea.

RedhotScot
4 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

Obscure blogs on the internet don’t determine international law. 

Iraq war was illegal and breached UN charter, says Annan

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/sep/16/iraq.iraq

Nor does the UN, by all accounts.

Fingal
Fingal
4 years ago
Reply to  RedhotScot

Please stay on topic. We’re looking for UN approval of Putin’s invasion of Ukraine. Can’t find it though.

RedhotScot
4 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

Why would Putin need UN approval when the west doesn’t.

Entirely on topic Bozo 🤡

Dan777
Dan777
4 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

Leaked phone calls reveal that Nuland and co had a direct hand in choosing the leader of Ukraine.

So, to be clear, NATO, a cold war organisation, that has continued to expand and build alliances, would not have to exist for 30 years beyond the collapse of the Soviet Union, because Putin invaded Ukraine in 2022…… seems legit.

Fingal
Fingal
4 years ago
Reply to  Dan777

No, the call shows the US trying to influence the choice (same as Russia) but not control it.

The call also indirectly reveals that the revolution was not engineered by the US,

Dan777
Dan777
4 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

So the US tried to influence the selection of leader in a foreign country and in the process hoisted Dmitro Yarosh back into the halls of power?

The Color Revolution and Maidan are absolutely the work of the CIA. The Azov are also trained by them.

Fingal
Fingal
4 years ago
Reply to  Dan777

Yes they tried to influence it. This was better than Russia who (up until this moment) had tried to completely control it.

Now the CIA didn’t engineer the revolutions. The notion that they could do this in Moscow’s backyard, riddled with Russian intelligence assets, is insulting to Russia.

Dan777
Dan777
4 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

The CIA didn’t engineer the revolutions. That will make my quote of the day.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-vN_B1vVYM

RedhotScot
4 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

The notion that they could do this in Moscow’s backyard, riddled with Russian intelligence assets

Where is the evidence Ukraine was riddled with Russian intelligence assets?

Making nonsense up again Fingal.

Mumbo Jumbo
4 years ago
Reply to  RedhotScot

He probably means all the pro-Russia Ukrainians.

RedhotScot
4 years ago
Reply to  Mumbo Jumbo

He very well may mean them, but he can’t produce any evidence, so they didn’t exist.

Fingal
Fingal
4 years ago
Reply to  RedhotScot

Raise the standard of question, please.

RedhotScot
4 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

Riiigghhhht…..so no evidence available from you then.

In other words, making stuff up again.

Fingal
Fingal
4 years ago
Reply to  RedhotScot

I expect that Nuland call was just a crossed line. Lucky break for the Russians.

RedhotScot
4 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

And still no evidence from Bozo 🤡

Rowan
Rowan
4 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

Why would it being a crossed line make a difference, it was what it was.

Fingal
Fingal
4 years ago
Reply to  Rowan

The point is, this was gathered by Russian intelligence which LukewarmScotty doesn’t think exists.

Rowan
Rowan
4 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

You need to raise the standard of your trolling.

Rowan
Rowan
4 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

“Now the CIA didn’t engineer the revolutions” 

Plain stupidity.

Fingal
Fingal
4 years ago
Reply to  Dan777

NATO was a highly successful alliance. One of its highest achievements – albeit uncelebrated – was to prevent war between its own members.

It was on a slow journey to obsolesce until Putin revived it. Now, it will receive massive new investment and soon expand to Russia’s border with Finland.

Putin is a dumbass.

Dan777
Dan777
4 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

Which wars between NATO members have been averted?

So NATO was on a slow journey to obsolesce during most of Putins tenure? But the NATO budget increases after the US lead coup in 2014, causing instability in Ukraine – and this is Russia’s fault, presumably for just being too close to the action?

Fingal
Fingal
4 years ago
Reply to  Dan777

For example, there was a very high risk of a Greece-Turkey war.

Many NATO members have been underspending for years, which was of course Trump’s big complaint. Both Trump and Macron were undermining NATO in their different ways.

People were openly speculating about its future.

I don’t think anyone can doubt that Putin’s invasion has led to the exact opposite of what he intended.

Rowan
Rowan
4 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

Putin’s invasion of Ukraine will lead to the break up of Ukraine. That seems to be what NATO wants.

RedhotScot
4 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

LMAOROTF. 🤣

Rowan
Rowan
4 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

Finland will never be in NATO unless it has a death wish.

Fingal
Fingal
4 years ago
Reply to  Rowan

Putin never attacks NATO members. Everyone can see this.

Dan777
Dan777
4 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

Shall we discuss the US funded biolabs next?

Or would you prefer for the Hunter Biden laptop (that doesn’t exist) to play out?

Fingal
Fingal
4 years ago
Reply to  Dan777

US funding of post Soviet nuclear and bio facilities has been the public domain for decades, along with the (positive) reasons. I’m not aware of Russia objecting until recently, as part of Putin’s invasion preparations.

Dan777
Dan777
4 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

Russia has objected in the past and spoken of mysterious virus outbreaks along its border with Ukraine, affecting both people and livestock .

I find it curious, maybe you do too, that the US is not doing this bio-research work within it’s own borders. In fact, upto 130 US funded bio research labs, including Wuhan, are not based in the US.

At present, it seems that Russia is trying to secure the scientists and evidence of what is happening in these labs so they can show the world. Not that the mainstream media will actually tell us, obviously.

Fingal
Fingal
4 years ago
Reply to  Dan777

Russia has objected in the past

To my knowledge, that’s relatively recent (in the last 10 years when Putin has been laying the ground domestically for invasion).

At the fall of the SU there were fears about the fate of nuclear and bio weapon facilities in what were now a rag-tag group of republics. The US offered funding to help maintain safety standards and steer them away from military purposes. AFAIK Russia agreed with it at the time.

RedhotScot
4 years ago
Reply to  Dan777

Bio labs for gain of function research in the US are illegal.

Funny there are entirely innocent bio labs located overseas…….

RedhotScot
4 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

Here we go again. Fingal reduced to his usual dismissive tactic of suggesting everyone but him is a conspiracy theorist.

Why people who call themselves sceptics swallow anything Putin saysI don’t understand. He hasn’t even admitted there’s a war on yet. What do you think? Is it war?

Hunter Biden’s laptop was declared a conspiracy theory. No doubt you bought that one.

Trumps Russia conspiracy also doubtless appealed to you. Of course it did, it was a conspiracy, until it was entirely disproven and it turns out the conspiracy that the Biden crime family were doing the dirty with Ukraine and China is bearing fruit.

artfelix
4 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

Yet again this ludicrous idea that ZEleNsKy CaNT Be NazI COs jEwishH.

Firstly, it assumes that Naziism is intrinsically based an antisemitism. It’s not. The Nazis in Germany, and many Nazis elsewhere, are antisemitic but it’s not a requirement. Exclusivist nationalism is, which is why they tend to dislike jews (and outsiders in general). But it ain’t a defining characteristic.

Secondly, I very much doubt Zelensky is a Nazi. He’s a corrupt puppet, a gangster and a CIA stooge, but not a Nazi. However it is inarguable that he allows, supports and enables Nazis – both in the military and in government- in their programme of ethnic cleansing of Russians, Bulgarians and other non-“Ukrainian” ethnic groups. He’s in it for the money, Jew or not is irrelevant. He cares as much about not supporting Nazis as he cares about not murdering Ukrainians. And if course as well as being a Jew he’s Ukrainian- so killing his own doesn’t seem to be a problem for him.

RedhotScot
4 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

George Soros is a Jew who worked with the Nazi’s.

Rowan
Rowan
4 years ago
Reply to  RedhotScot

And is still doing so.

RedhotScot
4 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

Fingal, making up his usual old left wing shit again.

Considering the Nazi’s killed around 25 million Russians during WW2 I don’t believe there’s much love lost over, nor tolerance for Nazi’s in the country.

There is an annual celebration across Russia, reminiscent of our poppy day, when Russians citizens parade, holding pictures of relatives killed fighting the Nazi’s.

Ukraine was never governed by Russia, it became an independent state following the fall of the USSR.

Since their expulsion…..

Expulsion from what?

The rest of your drivel is simply your imagination expanding on BBC propaganda.

Fingal
Fingal
4 years ago
Reply to  RedhotScot

Imperial Russia has held Ukraine in the past and the SU was another version of imperial control. Many countries have reason to hate Russia.

The irony is that it was Stalin who actually made a Pact with Hitler, which precipitated WW2 and nearly gave Hitler victory. Presumably you will buy the Russian propaganda on that deal too, as history doesn’t seem to be your strong point.

RedhotScot
4 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

“The Ukrainian Bolsheviks, who had defeated the national government in Kyiv, established the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic, which on 30 December 1922 became one of the founding republics of the Soviet Union.” (Wikipedia)

Imperial control my ass……

The irony is that it was Stalin who actually made a Pact with Hitler

Factually incorrect as usual, it was the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact.

Did that pact include the butchering of 24 million Russians?

The “Non aggression” pact (between each other) lasted from September 1938 until June 1941 when Germany invaded Russia in Operation Barbarossa. A year and nine months later.

So much for non aggression.

All this stuff is incredibly easy to establish. Why don’t you check your made up claims before posting them?

Fingal
Fingal
4 years ago
Reply to  RedhotScot

Factually incorrect as usual, it was the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact.

Has to rank up there with the dumbest remarks I ever heard.

What do you think – he didn’t mention it to Stalin?

Stay off the history, it’s not your strong point.

RedhotScot
4 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

Aw shucks, I understand. You’re sore at being corrected once again Bozo 🤡

So far your historical recollection is zilch.

Rowan
Rowan
4 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

Keep it up Bozo.

eastender53
4 years ago
Reply to  RedhotScot

Sadly you lessen yourself here. Very few international agreements bear the names of the principles of the countries involved. (Sykes/Picot etc). However they are still seen as bearing the imprimatur of the leaders.

RedhotScot
4 years ago
Reply to  eastender53

I neither suggested nor stated that the principles, Stalin and Hitler, put their names to the pact, that was Bozo Fingal.

I corrected him by informing him it was the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact, which doesn’t bear the names of the principles.

Irrespective of who the leaders are of the moment, because they might be gone the next day, pacts or agreements usually don’t carry their names.

You might want to read the whole lot again.

Fingal
Fingal
4 years ago
Reply to  RedhotScot

Nope, I didn’t say Stalin or Hitler put their names to the pact.

You might want to read the whole lot again

I did, and I enjoyed it just as much as the first time.

David Beaton
David Beaton
4 years ago
Reply to  Mumbo Jumbo

Closing down Russian versions of events in a fratricidal conflict is a blatant attempt to fix the narrative with western propaganda – so obvious …but the same old sheep still can’t see it!

“Stupid is as stupid does”.

Fingal
Fingal
4 years ago
Reply to  David Beaton

What do you feel about Putin closing down all versions of events except his own?

JMR747
JMR747
4 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

Actually, I find that RT gives at least some time to the Ukrainian perspective, not just that of their Russian paymasters. I don’t see any of the mainstream Western media giving the same balance.

RedhotScot
4 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

Where’s your evidence he has?

rtj1211
rtj1211
4 years ago

It really is astonishing that the never-ending lies coming out of the Ukrainian puppets are ignored, painting them as Little Red Riding Hood, but there is a compulsive need to paint Russians as nazis.

It’s clear to any sane person that the Bucha propaganda is a blatant false flag, for which Zelensky should lose all support whatsoever. If Johnson supports such lying, he should be hung from a lamp post. Every American living in the UK should be required to sign a document condemning the engineered war in Ukraine, organised primarily by the Anglo-Zionist axis, if they wish to remain living here. They can go home otherwise.

There is a very strong need for the DS to be very, very skeptical about any propaganda coming out of Downing Street, the EU, the USA, NATO and Ukraine these days.

Mumbo Jumbo
4 years ago
Reply to  rtj1211

Sadly, Covid induced madness appears to have affected most of the Western world.

Londo Mollari
4 years ago
Reply to  rtj1211

UK blocking an independent inquiry at UNSC should tell us all we need to know about what happened at Bucha.

Ron Smith
Ron Smith
4 years ago
Reply to  Londo Mollari

Even GB News, home of free speech apparently, are very one sided on this issue.
Tom Harwod thinks that Green MP who questioned why we are funding lethal aid shouldn’t be in a job. No fan of greens but defend their free speech.

Mumbo Jumbo
4 years ago
Reply to  Ron Smith

Harwood is notable for blind acceptance of the official goverment line on almost everything. He was totally unhinged in his vehemence against anyone threatening any deviation from the most extreme manifestation of Covid policy. His piece to camera this lunch-time showed him totally incapable of distinguishing between fact and fantasy and mindless rejection of anything casting doubt on the Ukrainian version of the war.

Ron Smith
Ron Smith
4 years ago
Reply to  Mumbo Jumbo

Speaking of unhinged, he was going to bludgeon to death an innocent animal, the Alpaca that just had a false positive bit like the PCR test.

Dan777
Dan777
4 years ago
Reply to  rtj1211

Yesterday, Russia requested an urgent meeting at the UN Security Council to investigate what has taken place in Bucha, and this meeting and investigation was blocked by a vote from…… the UK.

Fingal
Fingal
4 years ago
Reply to  Dan777

Surely this can’t be the same Russia which continually vetoes UN resolutions?

RedhotScot
4 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

I wonder why?

timsk
4 years ago
Reply to  Dan777

Have you got any U.K. links that confirm this please Dan? I’ve done a Google search and precious little comes up other than to Tass. I’m not saying it’s not true (forgive the double negative), but it would be good to have it confirmed by western MSM. Ta.

Mark
4 years ago
Reply to  timsk

Will an Indian source do? “Russian ambassador to the United Nation, Vasily Nebenzya on Tuesday asked why Moscow’s request for a meeting on Monday to discuss Ukraine’s situation was rejected. He claimed that the United Kingdom, which presently holds the rotating stewardship on the council, cleared the offer to allow a meeting on the Bucha massacre. “We requested emergency meetings on April 3 and 4 but you refused them… this is an outrageous situation. I’d like to ask on what basis do you feel you can act in such an outrageous way?… We demand an explanation” Nebenzya told UNSC. “Don’t you know that if you don’t agree with our proposal, you should’ve convened a meeting and put forward the issue of the advisability of holding a meeting for a vote? During our presidency, we didn’t refuse a single time to convene any of the 6 meetings on Ukraine,” the Russian envoy further added. In response, UK ambassador Dame Barbara Woodward asserted that Russia’s claim was not true. She said the UN gave Moscow notice stating a meeting could go forward but it made logic to do this alongside the session already scheduled for Tuesday.” https://www.republicworld.com/world-news/russia-ukraine-crisis/at-unsc-russia-asks-why-moscows-request-for-meeting-was-rejected-uk-responds-articleshow.html My suspicion would be that… Read more »

timsk
4 years ago
Reply to  Mark

Cheers Mark.

RedhotScot
4 years ago
Reply to  timsk

Don’t use Google. They have announced they are censoring contrary opinions to the western narrative on Ukraine.

timsk
4 years ago
Reply to  RedhotScot

I’m a technophobe and a Luddite RhS – so I could well be mistaken about this . . .
I don’t think I have an option about browsers as I use a Chromebook. It works brilliantly for me, but the price one pays is having to sell one’s soul to Google!

jmc
jmc
4 years ago
Reply to  rtj1211

I remember people just like you in the 1970’s and 1980’s. They were called Useful Idiots. Lapping up whatever propaganda the SU/RU put out. Like hungry pigs in a trough. Dont know about you but I have spent the last 4 months doing what I did 1988 to 1993. Watching a large amount of Russian TV. Channel 1 RU. Watching Vermya every day. Watching the rolling coverage. Watching how they twist and fabricate what is going on. Just like they did during the Cold War. Watching how they lie, lie, lie. Like to discuss the standard propaganda techniques they have used to try to undermine the many documented atrocities the Russian have committed. Nothing original. Straight out of the Goebbels / Julius Streicher playbook. Like the UA battle field video of supposed UA atrocities that was shown over and over again yesterday on Channel 1 RU. All but one sequence genuine. The fake one a 2 sec video inset of a dead body with tied hands. You should see the vile lies they tell about the Bucha videos. Over and over again. One side is lying, the other side is not telling the complete truth. Can you tell the difference… Read more »

1tvrut_2022-04-06_1325.jpg
Mark
4 years ago
Reply to  jmc

“One side is lying, the other side is not telling the complete truth. Can you tell the difference between the two? The RU is lying. Its second nature to the culture.” Odds are the side that lied about Kuwaiti babies in incubators, about WMD in Iraq and about covid (to name just the ones nobody honest and minimally informed denies any more) is also lying about Russia today. To what degree the other side might also be lying shouldn’t really be imoprtant to us, next to the overwhelmingly important fact that OUR OWN SIDE REPEATEDLY LIES TO MANIPULATE US INTO POLICIES WE WOULD NOT OTHERWISE SUPPORT! For some reason you seem to want to ignore that existentially crucial FOR US reality, in order to focus on particular supposed lies told by a participant in an irrelevant fight that we are officially neutral in, thousands of miles away. Your priorities seem deeply warped. Perhaps your seeming inability to move on from the Cold War explains this strange warping of priorities. Your smear that “lying is second nature to RU (Russian) culture” suggests ulterior motives, but only you can answer to that. Your approach seems to be to assume that whatever the… Read more »

MTF
MTF
4 years ago
Reply to  Mark

You appear to have made your choice. Others are free to disagree.

That’s true here. It is not true in Russia where it’s illegal to even call it a war. I am gobsmacked that so many people here think the detailed videos , interviews, satellite pictures etc of the most appalling scenes presented by free press round the world are some kind of fraud. Yes you are free to have your opinion and I support your right to express it, but , my God, it is deeply mistaken.

Mark
4 years ago
Reply to  MTF

In fairness to the Russians, unlike us they are actually at war, and speech and protest controls in wartime are pretty commonplace. Though their laws are the same kind of laws against “misinformation” that our government is bringing in, and other countries already have. They just have a different idea from you of what constitutes misinformation. Since I’m British and not Russian, I don’t care what their laws are but I do care very much about our laws. “I am gobsmacked that so many people here think the detailed videos , interviews, satellite pictures etc of the most appalling scenes presented by free press round the world are some kind of fraud. “ In fairness, you were taken in by a lot of the covid/”vaccine” nonsense, so you clearly aren’t the sharpest tool in the box. The fact is that it’s been pretty clear for many years now that the US and UK security services have essentially infinite funding and resources for concocting such atrocity stories and direct cooperation at the highest levels of our media and tech corporations. I don’t think they would struggle to fool you again. As I noted, you clearly believe that all the US sphere elite’s… Read more »

RedhotScot
4 years ago
Reply to  Mark

In fairness, you were taken in by a lot of the covid/”vaccine” nonsense, so you clearly aren’t the sharpest tool in the box.

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

MTF
MTF
4 years ago
Reply to  Mark

The fact is that it’s been pretty clear for many years now that the US and UK security services have essentially infinite funding and resources for concocting such atrocity stories and direct cooperation at the highest levels of our media and tech corporations.

So the interviews with eye witnesses, the corpses tied up and shot through the head, the satellite photos of corpses were all some kind of elaborate hoax? Were all the world’s free press in on this or were they fooled as well – maybe actors pretending to be devastated mothers etc?

you clearly believe that all the US sphere elite’s enemies just keep shooting themselves in the foot with pantomime villain crimes that serve them no purpose whatsoever but have disastrous PR consequences.

No I believe that there was a loss of control in a culture of violence. I very much doubt Putin wanted these atrocities to take place but the Russian military found themselves horribly exposed and took their cue from Putin’s contempt for human life elsewhere.

Mark
4 years ago
Reply to  MTF

“So the interviews with eye witnesses, the corpses tied up and shot through the head, the satellite photos of corpses were all some kind of elaborate hoax? Were all the world’s free press in on this or were they fooled as well – maybe actors pretending to be devastated mothers etc?” Some faked, some out of context, etc. All concocted to give you the precise impression intended. Just as with all the other ever so convenient “atrocities” that have been ensuring you believe in the pure evil of the designated enemies for decades now. Remember this heart-rending testimony from this tearful young girl? https://youtu.be/LmfVs3WaE9Y Fake. Bought and paid for. To manipulate people like you into supporting a war. It worked brilliantly, and the lesson was not lost on the security deep state, you can be sure. That was thirty years ago. And people like you back then, accused people like me who questioned this horrific crime, of being hateful,uncaring conspiracy theorists and Saddam apologists. Plus ca change… “No I believe that there was a loss of control in a culture of violence. I very much doubt Putin wanted these atrocities to take place but the Russian military found themselves horribly… Read more »

Fingal
Fingal
4 years ago
Reply to  Mark

Remember this heart-rending testimony from this tearful young girl?

This is 30 years old. Time to find something new.

You think Putin doesn’t fake news?

RedhotScot
4 years ago
Reply to  MTF

It is not true in Russia where it’s illegal to even call it a war.

Where’s your evidence of this?

RedhotScot
4 years ago
Reply to  jmc

What Russian TV were you watching between 1988 to 1993? Channel 1 RU wasn’t established until 1995, then called “ORT (ОРТ—Общественное Российское Телевидение, Obshchestvennoye Rossiyskoye Televideniye; Public Russian Television)” (Wikipedia).

It presumably wasn’t over the internet as Netscape browser wasn’t released until 1994 and Youtube wasn’t formed until 2005.

Judging by your rant you didn’t watch it in Russia and I don’t recall it ever being broadcast publicly in the UK.

Alter Ego
Alter Ego
4 years ago
Reply to  jmc

One side is lying, the other side is not telling the complete truth. Can you tell the difference between the two? The RU is lying. Its second nature to the culture.

Are you referring to the culture of a particular TV channel? If so, I would have thought you would have said, “It’s second nature to its culture.”

You appear to be damning Russian culture, as the Nazis did before you. Perhaps you might like to read what you cite as “the Goebbels/Julius Streicher playbook”.

Or perhaps you already have, and have learnt how to smear. Your attack on rtj1211 is outrageous abuse. I’m not reporting you, because I believe in free speech – even when it a hate-filled rant.

crisisgarden
4 years ago
Reply to  jmc

A panel of guests on a TV current affairs programme discussing the war. What’s your point exactly? Are we supposed to infer from this image that they are all lying? Is that because they’re Russian and this is therefore ‘second nature’. Or are you providing this image to prove that at least some of what you’re saying is true? Your comment is extremely odd with shades of xenophobia.

TripleJabbed
TripleJabbed
4 years ago
Reply to  crisisgarden

I very much doubt that they are discussing the war, what with it being illegal to call it a war in Russia.

RedhotScot
4 years ago
Reply to  TripleJabbed

Straight from the BBC I assume………

Mumbo Jumbo
4 years ago
Reply to  jmc

I take it you mean Vremya. I am glad you were watching it so carefully that you got the name wrong.

Londo Mollari
4 years ago

We know of course neo-Nazi groups have been active in Ukraine and extreme right-wing parties have had some support in elections. But just a few percentage points.

Yes, but all other parties are currently banned. And it was Azov which told Zelensky that if he implemented the Minsk Accords, they would kill him.

 [T]he author makes no distinction between the Ukrainian army and independent armed groups

This is because of the concept of “stiffening.” The regular armed forces have been filled with right wing racist zealots to ensure ideological conformity. I suppose the Ukrainians (and their NATO masters) got the idea from their Soviet predecessors.

crisisgarden
4 years ago

I find it particularly offensive and ill-informed to compare an anti-Nazi operation to Nazism. Utter nonsense. The author, an economist, would do well to look more closely at the history; Ukraine is made up of many ethnic groups, languages and cultures and the unifying national identity unfortunately, contains not insignificant elements of extreme nationalism. The author should also wait for the Bucha incident to be properly investigated; all may not be as it has been reported by a hysterical and extremely partisan press. Any comparison to Nazism must take account of the fact that no one suffered more losses at the hands of the Germans in WW2 than Russia, and Russians, unlike Mr Siglaugsson, have a keen sense of history.

Fingal
Fingal
4 years ago
Reply to  crisisgarden

Ukraine was itself part of the SU in WW2. It’s estimated than more than 10 mill Ukrainians died in the Nazi occupation.

The whole exercise of pretending Ukraine is the same as Nazi Germany, tells us everything about Putin’s intentions and nothing about Ukraine.

Mumbo Jumbo
4 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

Is it estimated how many of those 10million were killed by their own countrymen?

Fingal
Fingal
4 years ago
Reply to  Mumbo Jumbo

No, that’s the Nazi total only.

Obviously Stalin killed a huge number of Ukrainians too, but the majority of that was after the war.

Mark
4 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

No, that’s the Nazi total only.

Who the heck do you think the Nazi trigger pullers were in the Ukraine – largely Ukrainians.

Fingal
Fingal
4 years ago
Reply to  Mark

The number of Ukrainians who fought against Hitler dwarfs those who fought for him.

Many countries saw the SU as illegal occupiers so for a time they backed the Germans on the grounds that ‘my enemy’s enemy is my friend’.

This was especially true of Finland, who ended up being unfairly tarred with the brush of Hitler sympathisers.

Mark
4 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

None of which, of course, addresses the point under discussion, which is that the Ukraine has and had a huge nazi problem.

Fingal
Fingal
4 years ago
Reply to  Mark

Except that this is Putin Fake News.

The most serious alliance with Hitler was by Stalin. That’s the one that actually changed history.

But Putin supports that one…

RedhotScot
4 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

The most serious alliance with Hitler was by Stalin. 

That’ll be why Hitler murdered 24 million Russians.

Alter Ego
Alter Ego
4 years ago
Reply to  RedhotScot

I’m afraid you’re trying to communicate with someone who knows nothing whatsoever about the system of non-aggression pacts and the entire, complex history of European politics and diplomacy in the 1930s.

RedhotScot
4 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

Where’s your evidence for all this? Bozo 🤡

Fingal
Fingal
4 years ago
Reply to  RedhotScot

Check back, you must have missed it

Alter Ego
Alter Ego
4 years ago
Reply to  Mark

Yes. Zelensky did not get the reception he wanted in Israel, precisely because a fair few Israelis remember the role played by certain Ukrainians in the Holocaust. They were notorious.

Ron Smith
Ron Smith
4 years ago
Reply to  Alter Ego

Some Poles are not that keen on Ukrainians after 1942.

Alter Ego
Alter Ego
4 years ago
Reply to  Ron Smith

Indeed. None of this would need to be pointed out, if it were not for those absurdly and obscenely turning Ukrainians into saintly heroes and Russians into villainous scum.

Free Lemming
4 years ago

We live in such a world of lies and propaganda it’s impossible to know what is truth. 1984 on steroids. Personally, I keep coming back to the likelihood of this war being manufactured in order to further the global agenda, and I believe that to be the case. It seems highly probable. But then I just can’t shake the elephant in the room, which is why Putin has not publicly exposed the Great Reset in crystal clarity? What has he got to lose if he’s not part of it? There seems to me to only be two explanations for this oddity. 1. Putin is complicit and a key component of it 2. It doesn’t exist in the form that is generally understood.

This has been nagging me from the start of the war.

kaddy89
4 years ago
Reply to  Free Lemming

Check out “Russia House” at Davos. Perhaps Putin does take his orders from Klaus (in a round about way).
https://houserussia.com/en/news/prezident-rossii-vladimir-putin-vstretilsya-s-prezidentom-vsemirnogo-ekonomicheskogo-foruma-klausom-/

GlassHalfFull
4 years ago
Reply to  Free Lemming

Putin has nothing to do with the “Great Reset”.

Russia and China want to “reset” the world away from US imperialism.

Putin has recently said “Today, the entire planet has to pay the price for the ambitions of the West, for its attempts by any means to maintain its crumbling dominance”.

That does not sound as if Russia is being controlled by the same people who are controlling the US.

The current fringe view that the young WEF leader Putin is part of the “Great Reset” is also not very convincing.

Fingal
Fingal
4 years ago
Reply to  GlassHalfFull

Russia and China want to “reset” the world away from US imperialism.

Towards Russian and Chinese imperialism.

crisisgarden
4 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

If I lived in Central America, South America, Africa or the Middle East, I might prefer their form of imperialism. Less likely to involve regime change and carpet bombing.

Dan777
Dan777
4 years ago
Reply to  crisisgarden

Spot on.

Fingal
Fingal
4 years ago
Reply to  crisisgarden

Have you seen any pics of Mariupol or Aleppo?

Dan777
Dan777
4 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

Would that be the same Mariupol that the Azov battalion said – if they had to leave they would make it uninhabitable?

Fingal
Fingal
4 years ago
Reply to  Dan777

We need to move on from the ridiculous notion that the defenders are bombing their own side, while still fighting off the Russian army.

It’s a stupid idea, and it should have been thrown away long ago in Syria.

RedhotScot
4 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

Would that be like the stupid idea that Tony Blair would announce WMD’s in Iraq when there never were any?

Fingal
Fingal
4 years ago
Reply to  RedhotScot

Would it be like that stupid idea that Putin says there’s no war in Ukraine?

Would it be like that stupid idea of endlessly referring to something else besides the topic under discussion?

RedhotScot
4 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

It’s a stupid idea

You brought the point up mate, not me so don’t attempt your usual left wing diversion tactics with me.

Much of the civilised world fell for the stupid idea that Iraq had WMD. They might be falling for the stupid idea that Ukraine wouldn’t bomb their own people.

The same thing has been perpetrated in numerous theatres of war.

I’m prepared to consider both options, being the left wing dogmatist you are, your not willing to consider alternatives, a lesson you should have learned long ago, but didn’t.

What’s that expression about not learning from history?

Fingal
Fingal
4 years ago
Reply to  RedhotScot

Saddam did have WMD. Only, not at the time that Bush/Blair said he did.

Whereas, most of what Putin says has no connection to fact at any point.

RedhotScot
4 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

Saddam did have WMD. Only, not at the time that Bush/Blair said he did.

Of course he did, he just lost millions upon millions of dollars worth of perfectly good nuclear ordnance.

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Best one I have heard all year Bozo 🤡

Fingal
Fingal
4 years ago
Reply to  RedhotScot

Sorry Lukewarm, I’ve no idea what you’re trying to say here.

RedhotScot
4 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

Yes. I have sought out independent journalists who are there. The scenes are nothing like the images projected by the BBC.

Interviews with numerous Ukrainian’s on the streets condemning their militaries violence against their own people in order to generate photo ops of bombed buildings. Pointing out the schools and kindergartens where they deliberately mount positions for both protection and PR mileage when Russians attack them.

Unlike the BBC and Reuters these independents don’t get paid by big media so are free to report as they see rather than to an agenda.

Fingal
Fingal
4 years ago
Reply to  RedhotScot

Please provide evidence that the BBC has paid Ukrainian witnesses.

RedhotScot
4 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

Once again, you screwed up Fingal. I didn’t say witnesses were paid.

Please read and correctly comprehend my first, and last sentence.

Bozo 🤡

Fingal
Fingal
4 years ago
Reply to  RedhotScot

Why are so many witnesses talking to the BBC etc, describing Russian atrocities?

Why do you believe alleged independent reporters like Lancaster aren’t being paid?

Because he says so?

huxleypiggles
4 years ago
Reply to  crisisgarden

CG it needs a few people to stop responding to trolls such as fingal and tree. Relevant threads are being deliberately ruined by these muppets.

crisisgarden
4 years ago
Reply to  huxleypiggles

You’re right I’ll stop.

RedhotScot
4 years ago
Reply to  crisisgarden

Don’t let them get away with their rubbish.

Alter Ego
Alter Ego
4 years ago
Reply to  crisisgarden

I enjoyed your comments.

huxleypiggles
4 years ago
Reply to  crisisgarden

Thank you.

Dan777
Dan777
4 years ago
Reply to  huxleypiggles

Point taken, but the discussion all looks ‘on topic’ to me.

Fingal has offered relevant points and I and others have tried to demonstrate other relevant points and information.

No one is upset, angry, off topic or using insults.

Fingal
Fingal
4 years ago
Reply to  Dan777

Well said Dan. I try to answer everyone who responds me if I can. Clearly, I know I’m going to be in an extreme minority on this website.

RedhotScot
4 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

Why would that be? You’re usually wrong or making things up?

RedhotScot
4 years ago
Reply to  huxleypiggles

I think that’s the point of an open forum, discussion.

Personally, I won’t any of them get away with posting their fantasies and lies. All too often the conservative minded amongst us enjoy a quiet life while these left wing fanatics make crap up and spread misinformation they gaslight people with.

Alter Ego
Alter Ego
4 years ago
Reply to  RedhotScot

Agree – but there are left-wingers who think you’re right and Fingal’s wrong. Probably not fanatics, though.

Fingal
Fingal
4 years ago
Reply to  Alter Ego

Also, I’m not actually left wing. Although I am a very long way to the left of RedhotScot (but then, so is most of humanity).

RedhotScot
4 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

Also, I’m not actually left wing.

So you said before ~Yawn~

Although I am a very long way to the left of RedhotScot

Correct Fingal! For once.

I am far right, so far right I’m a Libertarian. In other words I would like everyone to be responsible for their own behaviour; I would like a small government which is dedicated to protecting our borders but not sticking their noses into other country’s business, and maintaining law and order domestically; low taxes; and freedom of expression, amongst other benefits you simply wouldn’t understand because by word and deed you are a socialist.

Fingal
Fingal
4 years ago
Reply to  RedhotScot

More interesting to see would be the list of conspiracy theories you believe in.

9/11? Worldwide elite (any flavour you like)? Contrails?

RedhotScot
4 years ago
Reply to  Alter Ego

I did deliberately include the word fanatics, some of my best friends are on the left, but they’re not nutty fanatics like Fingal.

Alter Ego
Alter Ego
4 years ago
Reply to  RedhotScot

Nuts and fanatics are the problem, whatever we call ourselves, but I suspect Fingal is neither. There’s method to his madness.

Alter Ego
Alter Ego
4 years ago
Reply to  huxleypiggles

I agree, but I also sympathise with the view of RedhotScot – that he doesn’t want people getting away with “rubbish”.

So I’ve conversed with our own and ignored Fingal. I can’t afford to be prim about the fact that they’re responding, since I have sinned myself (as you know, hp – but I am improving).

huxleypiggles
4 years ago
Reply to  Alter Ego

I have always supported frank discussions. 350 or so comments and I thought that must be interesting.

But no, fingal and another idiot triplejabbed (hopefully) have mired the discussion in a pointless bloody tennis match where tit for tat point scoring becomes the name of the game and those on here who should know better get drawn in. It’s bloody boring!

Alter Ego
Alter Ego
4 years ago
Reply to  huxleypiggles

It’s bloody boring!

And the proof of that for me is that when I revisited the site this morning (Oz time of course), I found myself scrolling through it without re-reading.

I did a lot of scrolling …

Fingal
Fingal
4 years ago
Reply to  Alter Ego

I actually agree with you. It is boring.

Ron Smith
Ron Smith
4 years ago
Reply to  crisisgarden

Good point but that Belt & Road may or probably will turn out to be a Trojan Horse. I. love Madagascar (at least before the globalists had other plans for us serfs) and on the Plane there would always come across Chinese businessmen. They put some nice Roads in the south near Toliara.

GlassHalfFull
4 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

Russia and China are committed to creating a peaceful world for which they have influence.

The US wants to bomb the world into “democracy”.

Fingal
Fingal
4 years ago
Reply to  GlassHalfFull

Russia and China are committed to creating a peaceful world for which they have influence.

LOL

RedhotScot
4 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

Have the Chinese declared war on anyone recently?

Errrrr…..No. Funny that.

Dan777
Dan777
4 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

I’ll take that over US imperialism.

Since the end of WW2 – the US has been involved in 80 election coups in foreign countries.

Russia and China are making deals and alliances all over the world based on trade, not coercion or under-condition.

RedhotScot
4 years ago
Reply to  Dan777

Ah, well, the coercion bit isn’t quite right. They have been extending their belt and road scheme, building things like power stations, ports etc. leased at exorbitant rates to country’s, then seizing them when payments aren’t made.

crisisgarden
4 years ago
Reply to  GlassHalfFull

To me neither. It feels more like the moment Western hubris ran into some realpolitik.

Dan777
Dan777
4 years ago
Reply to  GlassHalfFull

In 2006, Putin paid-off the debt to the Rothschild Central Bank and kicked them out. This would also suggest he in not part of the globalist cabal.

Free Lemming
4 years ago
Reply to  GlassHalfFull

So please explain why he wouldn’t make a public announcement about it? With his intelligence agencies he would 100% know. This question has never been answered satisfactorily as far as I concerned. Just saying he isn’t just doesn’t do the job – like just saying Covid jabs work doesn’t either.

GlassHalfFull
4 years ago
Reply to  Free Lemming

I’ve no idea what you are referring to.

Free Lemming
4 years ago
Reply to  GlassHalfFull

It’s quite simple, I’m asking you why you think Putin would not expose the Great Reset?

GlassHalfFull
4 years ago
Reply to  Free Lemming

He has.

He wants nothing to do with the US led Great Reset.

He wants to reorder the world without the current Western domination.

In English translation what China and Russia want may sound similar but it is totally different to what the US wants.

An example which people jump on showing that China, Russia and the West want the same thing is “vaccines”.

The US wants to sell expensive vaccines to those that can afford it so that Big Pharma can make a fortune.

Bill Gates has said if they make a good job with vaccines they can reduce the world population.

When China and Russia mention vaccines they want to provide cheap medication to the whole world where they improve peoples health.
(I personally have no faith in vaccines but the vast majority do).

Russia and China have lifted millions out of poverty.

The US has forced millions into poverty.

Like I said the statements made by Russia, China and the US may sound similar but it is much more nuanced than that.

That is why I believe people like James Corbett and Iain Davis are wrong to suggest that China and Russia support the Great Reset.

Free Lemming
4 years ago
Reply to  GlassHalfFull

Oh, ok. Can you provide the link to where he announced this to the world then please? I must have missed it.

GlassHalfFull
4 years ago
Reply to  Free Lemming

“Ultimately, the West’s desire to maintain its global dominance is the root of the ongoing Ukrainian turmoil, as well as crises in the other parts of the globe”, Putin believes.

“Today, the entire planet has to pay the price for the ambitions of the West, for its attempts by any means to maintain its crumbling dominance,” he said.

Concerned only with their “vested interests and super profits,” the Western elites led the world into the current situation through “years of mistakes and short-sited decisions.”

https://www.unz.com/aanglin/putin-speech-on-the-ongoing-border-skirmish-with-the-ukraine/

These are not the words of someone who is in cahoots with the US in a Great Reset.

Free Lemming
4 years ago
Reply to  GlassHalfFull

Maybe not, but neither are they the words which clearly expose the Great Reset. My initial point remains perfectly valid – why has he not done this? (that’s a rhetorical question at this point of the exchange btw).

I’ll have to respectfully disagree with you about this, there is something that doesn’t add up. I’ve got the same feeling I had about the ‘vaccines’ – something is amiss.

GlassHalfFull
4 years ago
Reply to  Free Lemming

The tools that will be used for the Western version of the Great Reset are the same tools that Russia and China will use to create their own version of the Great Reset but it will be different to the US version in a number of ways.

Putin and Russia have spent many years buying up physical gold and with the sale of Russian oil and gas in roubles not dollars it will be the end of the petrodollar and the potential collapse of Western economies.

Perhaps Putin has not made public their plans and condemned the Western Great Reset as he didn’t want to overtly show his hand.

However, the Kremlin released the joint statement with China on 4th February 2022 which details their goals.

Reading between the lines shows their condemnation of the US and the West.

This link is directly from the Kremlin and may take a couple of attempts to load.

http://en.kremlin.ru/supplement/5770

Alter Ego
Alter Ego
4 years ago
Reply to  GlassHalfFull

Thanks GlassHalfFull – should have scrolled down!

Luongo points, as you do, to Putin speeches which directly challenge the “Great Reset” narrative (one of them to the Davos crowd themselves).

I find the idea that anyone controls Putin, except himself, a little strange.

kaddy89
4 years ago
Reply to  GlassHalfFull

I saw Xi’s speech to the WEF at Davos and here’s a thing I don’t trust ANY of them any more. Not a single World leader, Monarch or Pope. So I just wont take sides…the lies spewed since this pandrmic began havr convinced me of that

Alter Ego
Alter Ego
4 years ago
Reply to  Free Lemming

You might like to check out Tom Luongo on this. He’s voluble, but well-informed and always interesting.

johnthebridge
johnthebridge
4 years ago

I’m confused. I thought Nazis were National Socialists, ie of the left. Where does the “extreme right” fit in to all of this? Is it because they like the swastika etc?

Dale
Dale
4 years ago
Reply to  johnthebridge

Well kept secret: Hitler was a leftist.

CynicalRealist
4 years ago
Reply to  johnthebridge

Authoritarian ideologies, be they of left or right, have a lot of shared characteristics – notably extreme violence towards anyone who opposes their ideology.

RedhotScot
4 years ago
Reply to  CynicalRealist

I can only think of one right wing dictatorship over my lifetime.

Nor do I recall seeing many pistripe suited, bowler hat wearing right wingers marching in the streets every summer. It’s usually the scruffy left wing oiks of Extinction Rebellion, BLM, antifa and Insulate Britain etc. who are obstructing traffic and glueing their faces to the tarmac.

It seems to me that the most belligerent nations are left wing, with internal authoritarian policing and a distain for human rights.

Alter Ego
Alter Ego
4 years ago
Reply to  johnthebridge

They used the term “Socialists” and a certain amount of Socialist rhetoric in their rise to power, at a time (during the Great Depression) when capitalism looked particularly unappealing to a good many people.

Concerned businessmen were assured that they would not be threatening the wealth of non-Jewish capitalists.

As soon as they took power, they imprisoned communists – who were very seriously of the left and did threaten the wealth of capitalists across the board.

crisisgarden
4 years ago
  • Serious corruption involving the children of senior US politicians.
  • Bioweapons labs.
  • Indiscriminate killing of separatists for eight years.
  • The prohibition of the Russian language.
  • A US sponsored bloody coup in 2014; the massacre at Odesa.
  • Soldiers marching under the Wolfsangel.
  • The stated desire to obtain nuclear weapons

The Russians – even that third you worry about Mr Siglaugsson – have a point, I’m afraid. War is horrific but I don’t imagine any other state doing anything differently when such an obvious and imminent threat is on the doorstep. Let’s try to be objective.

TheBluePill
4 years ago
Reply to  crisisgarden

Add in that our “governments” have been terrorising their own populations for two years, setting up the mechanisms of totalitarianism and outdoing the third Reich at propoganda, psyops and medical experimentation. I am by no means saying that Russia is a bastion of freedom and democracy, but it is time to accept that we (the West) are firmly on the side of evil.

Mumbo Jumbo
4 years ago
Reply to  TheBluePill

It speaks volumes that before this conflict my son preferred Moscow to England because of the lack of woke culture and the high quality of life he was able to live there. He was in the process of gaining residency there before all this happened.

Milo
Milo
4 years ago
Reply to  TheBluePill

At the very least the West cannot be said to be on the side of good.

Fingal
Fingal
4 years ago
Reply to  crisisgarden

Ukraine is of course one of a mere handful of countries which have voluntarily given up their nuclear weapons – in return for a guarantee that Russia would respect its territorial integrity.

That didn’t work out so well…

Nessimmersion
4 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

Prior to that there was another agreement you’ve very conveniently forgotten when the Soviets / Gorbachev were solemnly promised by the west that NATO would not expand eastwards and would not exploit the breakup of the Soviet Union.

The promise to Ukraine was conditional on the prior promise being observed

Fingal
Fingal
4 years ago
Reply to  Nessimmersion

Untrue. Show me the treaties.

Nessimmersion
4 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

Wanna place a bet that its untrue sonny?

Fingal
Fingal
4 years ago
Reply to  Nessimmersion

Show me the text in the treaties

Nessimmersion
4 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

You really are a silly little trill aren’t you?

Declassified documents show security assurances against NATO expansion to Soviet leaders from Baker, Bush, Genscher, Kohl, Gates, Mitterrand, Thatcher, Hurd, Major, and Woerner

Slavic Studies Panel Addresses “Who Promised What to Whom on NATO Expansion?”

https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/russia-programs/2017-12-12/nato-expansion-what-gorbachev-heard-western-leaders-early

Time for you to change the subject again eh?
At least you’re consistently wrong when you shill for thw Sorosite WEF agenda.

Fingal
Fingal
4 years ago
Reply to  Nessimmersion

No treaty, show me the treaty.

Nessimmersion
4 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

You are a mendacious little failure aren’t you
I said agreements, you said that was untrue.
Now that you have been comprehensively disembowelled you try to change my agreeements to treaties.
You should go back and ask your superiors for a better crib sheet as that sideways shuffle is pathetic in its incompetence.

TripleJabbed
TripleJabbed
4 years ago
Reply to  Nessimmersion

No need for personal abuse, Fingal is quite correct. International agreements are written down. Treaties are governed by the Vienna Convention, not by declassified documents. If you claim that Gorbachev was promised something, Fingal is quite right to ask to see it in writing. If it isn’t in writing it doesn’t exist.

This so-called promise is overblown Russian propaganda. Stop spouting it.

RedhotScot
4 years ago
Reply to  TripleJabbed

Well I never…..

You people are crackpots who are so obsessed by “narrative” that you couldn’t step outside your own biases if your lives depended on it.

It’s OK if you insult people, but no one else can.

🤣🤡

Mark
4 years ago
Reply to  TripleJabbed

 “If it isn’t in writing it doesn’t exist.

Except this isn’t true, is it?

Why do you pretend it is?

TripleJabbed
TripleJabbed
4 years ago
Reply to  Mark

Of course it is true. Diplomats make little side-deals to get over the short term all the time, but they have no long term standing. Iran made a nuclear deal with President Obama, but because there was no treaty ratified by the Senate the deal was cancelled as soon as Trump became president. Anything that Gorbachev agreed with H.W. Bush has the same standing. Elevating it to some kind of binding obligation is silly.

Mark
4 years ago
Reply to  TripleJabbed

No agreement is “binding” in international affairs, except to the extent that the parties choose to make it so, because there is no supranational authority to enforce one. You can’t get a court to send a bailiff or a police officer to enforce its rulings in the international sphere. There is a gradation of formality, from verbal agreements such as the reassurances given to the Soviets, through political agreements such as the Budapest memorandum (not a formal treaty – as the US regime itself openly stated in 2013 in relation to these agreements: “Although the Memorandum is not legally binding, we take these political commitments seriously“), to formal “binding” treaties such as the UN Charter. But if a country chooses to defy a formal treaty, there is no ultimate recourse other than acting against them and trying to persuade other countries to act against them. The Russians are perfectly entitled to object to the US breaching the reassurances clearly given to them, just as the Ukrainians are entitled to object to Russia allegedly breaching its undertakings in the Budapest memo. Doesn’t do either of them much good, but helps explain their feelings about the situation. Saying verbal agreements “don’t exist”… Read more »

TripleJabbed
TripleJabbed
4 years ago
Reply to  Mark

The Russians are not entitled at all to object to understandings between leaders who left office thirty years ago. Nobody should have any expectation that this kind of understanding is anything other than time limited. Whichever promises may or may not have existed in the past, they certainly do not exist now.

RedhotScot
4 years ago
Reply to  TripleJabbed

The Russians are not entitled at all to object to understandings between leaders who left office thirty years ago. 

Biden object to the second amendment of the constitution. The ones that wrote it have been dead for hundreds of years.

You just make crap up. It’s hilarious reading it.

Fingal
Fingal
4 years ago
Reply to  TripleJabbed

It has to be in legal form. You think the Russians are going to obey a verbal agreement unless it’s in writing? They don’t even stick to the written treaties.

The alleged Baker-Gorbachev ‘agreement’ means nothing because it wasn’t even the end of the negotiation process. It was the second of half a dozen bi-lateral meetings. The actual formal document wasn’t signed for another 6 months, and that did allow East Germany to be militarised (and therefore effectively become part of NATO).

There is/was no legal treaty or any other word you care to use that prevented NATO expansion.

RedhotScot
4 years ago
Reply to  TripleJabbed

Fingal makes many claims, without exception they are entirely evidence free.

RedhotScot
4 years ago
Reply to  Nessimmersion

There’s a few of them in today.

Wednesday afternoon, of course!

Half day at the asylum, they’re let out into the community so they don’t go stir crazy.

Mumbo Jumbo
4 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

Is it your turn today?

crisisgarden
4 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

No it didn’t, because Zelensky said he wanted to get them back some time before the Russians acted.

Fingal
Fingal
4 years ago
Reply to  crisisgarden

Ukraine was not on a path to developing nuclear weapons, not even a toe on the path.

In any case that’s Ukraine’s business. What matters is that Russia promised not to attack Ukraine, in return for giving up nuclear weapons.

This was an actual commitment, as opposed something someone is alleged to have said in a corridor about NATO.

ebygum
4 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

Why do people spout this rubbish…they didn’t give them up they were never theirs..Russia never gave Kiev the codes either. There is no way that the rest of the world would have let Ukraine ‘keep’ these weapons and become a nuclear power…good grief!

Fingal
Fingal
4 years ago
Reply to  ebygum

Whether or not Ukraine could re-engineer the weapons, the more important fact is the deal that was struck – they surrendered the weapons in return for a Russian pledge to respect their territory.

Not that it should have needed such a promise, but still.

RW
RW
4 years ago
Reply to  crisisgarden

Soldiers marching under the Wolfsangel.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolfsangel

Mindlessly repeating stuff so-called left US NGOs pump out is still not a good idea. Eg, an Indian supermarket I go to frequently to buy certain things also sells pictures of Hindu deities with swastikas on them. That’s one of many traditional heraldic and/or religious symbols which was used by official German bodies between 1933 and 1945. Nothing follows from that about other uses in general, ie, the same or similar symbols appearing in different contexts conveys nothing on its own. In absence of more specific information, that’s just a run-of-the-mill guilty by association smear.

RedhotScot
4 years ago
Reply to  RW

You are aware that Wikipedia has been condemned as a far left mouthpiece by one of its founders aren’t you?

So much for “so-called left US NGOs” if you don’t recognise what Wikipedia is.

Jonny S.
4 years ago

This from the BBC eight years ago.

Neo-Nazi threat in new Ukraine: NEWSNIGHT

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5SBo0akeDMY

And six years ago

The far-right group threatening to overthrow Ukraine’s government – Newsnight

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sEKQsnRGv7s

greggsy01
greggsy01
4 years ago

This American comedian provides more context and detail about Russia Ukraine war than the author – Icelandic economist…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6m9PoKnCNR0
A bit worried about the state of Icelandic economy tbh

porgycorgy
porgycorgy
4 years ago

So much material for sceptics in this whole issue. The alleged massacre at Bucha almost certainly did not happen during the Russian occupation – plenty of evidence for this, including Ukrainian films and … it was not even mentioned by the town’s mayor after the Russians left at the end of March. As we know, the West has vetoed a UN investigation into the facts. It is more likely that Ukrainian militias executed those found in possession of Russian food, or distributing Russian food. Far from what the author of this piece suggests, Nazi militia are both active and powerful in Ukraine, and they are known to rape, torture and murder men, women and children, leaving their trademark swastikas etched on the bodies. Many of them are on methadone – plenty of that lying around too. So many young Russian soldiers being traded back minus their kneecaps or penis.Yes – Russians see Ukraine as a historically corrupt country, steeped in the nationalist ideology of Stepan Bandera. Instead of working to reduce the power of organisations such as ‘Azov’, the West has supported armed militias simply because they are ‘anti-Russian’. The West therefore bears a heavy moral responsibility for this war.… Read more »

BurlingtonBertie
4 years ago
Reply to  porgycorgy

‘Corpses’ can be observed waving as the car goes past & sitting up in the wing mirror of the video used in the MSM as ‘proof’ of the massacre when played at slow speed…
Zombies in Bucha…?? https://t.me/ETAgenda/393

Fingal
Fingal
4 years ago

This has been debunked.

crisisgarden
4 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

Oh OK well that’s that then.

TheBluePill
4 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

It has not been debunked. BBC and so-called “fact-checkers” have made some cursory observations, provided some stills of an irrelevant part of the footage, and ignored any of the numerous questions such as “why did the mayor not mention it when interviewed”, or “why didn’t the Russians (in orderly retreat) not think to cover-up their genocide”?

Fingal
Fingal
4 years ago
Reply to  TheBluePill

There was not much orderly about either the invasion or the retreat.

RedhotScot
4 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

You would know that, how?

Fingal
Fingal
4 years ago
Reply to  RedhotScot

Make an effort, Lukewarm. I can’t do everything for you.

RedhotScot
4 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

Provide the evidence of the debunking.

Pointless asking really…………

Fingal
Fingal
4 years ago
Reply to  RedhotScot
RedhotScot
4 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

The BBC. How did I know it before I even asked for it.

Pathetic Bozo 🤡

Fingal
Fingal
4 years ago
Reply to  RedhotScot

So here we are, back with the question you avoided earlier. What evidence do you have that the BBC and other professional news sources fake their reports?

There are hundreds of reporters in Ukraine from dozens of countries. Are they are faking it?

It’s a question you have to keep avoiding because any answer is going to sound stupid, as even you recognise.

ebygum
4 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

No, be honest it’s the same bits of footage repeated ad nauseam.
Unlike other conflicts most of the reporters are based somewhere outside of the conflict zone, many in Poland, so they only get what the Ukrainians give them.

Fingal
Fingal
4 years ago
Reply to  ebygum

That’s not true, they have reporters going into the newly liberated areas and talking to many locals

RedhotScot
4 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

The Russians killed them, and put them in body bags? How very tidy of them.

Or did the Ukrainians who discovered them put them in body bags and just leave them in the road? Not credible as, were they to be used as evidence, the locus and the bodies are now contaminated so therefore useless. Had they been forensically examined at the locus the bodies would have been taken for a formal autopsy, even at a later date.

You don’t just leave evidence lying around in the middle of the road where a tank could trip over them.

Photo top left……Bozo 🤡

_124055255_bucha_analysis_2x640-nc.png
Dan777
Dan777
4 years ago

Yesterday, Russia requested an urgent meeting at the UN Security Council to investigate what has taken place in Bucha, and this meeting and investigation was blocked by a vote from…… the UK.

Mark
4 years ago

Just another angle to try to demonise Russians.

What’s comical is the way so many people who would literally freak out at the suggestion that even a single open, actual nazi were in any kind of position of influence in their own country, suddenly get so intensely relaxed about the huge influence of actual nazis in the Ukraine (to the extent they have been given heavy artillery and allowed to practice their extermination fantasies on Free Donbass for the past 8 years).

Yes, it’s a problem. Yes, dealing with it is going to be difficult.

But the Russians aren’t to blame for it, the Ukrainians are, and the Americans, and to a lesser extent (ironically) the Germans.

Critique proposed solutions all you like but never forget why we are where we are in the Ukraine. Otherwise you are just finding another excuse to blame the victims.

porgycorgy
porgycorgy
4 years ago
Reply to  Mark

Agreed. Getting through to people is hard: my sister came back with ‘But there are far right people in every country’.
‘Yes dear, but they don’t have guns, form military units and torture and kill men, women and children’.
They just don’t want to ‘get it’, because they are comfortable in the self-righteous western ‘bubble’.

Milo
Milo
4 years ago
Reply to  porgycorgy

Tried to explain that to someone yesterday, but brainwashed by the BBC and fact that one of their friends has almost singlehandedly set up a relief effort for the Ukrainian refugees, they weren’t having any of it. It is simples. Putin bad. Ukraine good. And BBC says it is so. Just like covid.

Alter Ego
Alter Ego
4 years ago
Reply to  Milo

In the last two decades and more, far too many people have become children in a moral sense, without the curiosity of a child.

There are good people and bad people, good nations and bad nations, good ideas and bad ideas; real news and fake news, real experts and people who don’t know what they’re talking about and should shut up.

TheBluePill
4 years ago
Reply to  Mark

Let’s see how comical they find it when Russia defeats the Nazis, but a few escape with British surface-to-air missiles in the boots of their cars.

Marcus Aurelius knew
4 years ago

I think I probably speak for most when I say that I honestly don’t know what to believe.

I mean, this isn’t as simple a question as whether or not SARS-Cov-2 warranted the greatest peacetime theft of freedoms of peaceful people, is it?

But then, shouting about governments in countries thousands of miles away is so much easier than sorting out your own…

But is it all connected? Of course, everything always is. There are no coincidences.

Milo
Milo
4 years ago

I read something not that long ago, and REALLY wish I had kept the link so I could post it here, but the article was able to identify the same shady background people working on the Ukraine situation as were involved in the creation of the covid fraud.

RedhotScot
4 years ago
Reply to  Milo

Saw it repeatedly on social media. (not FB or twit).

Nessimmersion
4 years ago

Interesting that there is a greater plurality of opinion published in Russian newspapers as this article shows than in the monolithic Russian Man Bad west.

Meanwhile

PSYOP STOCKHOLM SYNDROME

The same people who believed that lockdowns, masks, and “vaccines” save lives from a virus, now believe the false flags in Ukraine. Funny that.”

Mark
4 years ago

“And if so, events such as the destruction of Mariupol and the massacre in Bucha are easier to understand.” This is just silly. Mariupol is exactly what you’d expect in a military assault on a city occupied by fanatical defenders who have had time to prepare, except that civilian casualties appear to have been much fewer than one would expect, because the Russians have treated it as occupied friendly territory rather than going in hard.. Look up Fallujah, and other historical precedents, if you need to educate yourself on the topic. Giving it as some kind of evidence of anything beyond the military need to clear out dug in occupying troops from an urban area is just embarrassing for you. As for Bucha, even if true and done by Russians, it’s just a war crime of the kind that happens in war. Again, there are plenty of historical precedents, for every significant army in history. The fact that events like this are paraded and used (effectively, sadly) to change people’s minds about the strategic position – to which it can have no possible relevance – is yet more evidence of propagandist intent and the prevalence of emotional manipulation rather than… Read more »

Jon Garvey
4 years ago
Reply to  Mark

Anyone old enough to remember My Lai, 1968? President Nixon was, of course, summarily arraigned before a war crimes tribunal… oh no, slip of the memory: one psychopathic lieutenant was scapegoated three years later, and paroled three years after that.

huxleypiggles
4 years ago
Reply to  Mark

Good post. I have to be blunt and admit that my position is now well dug in (😀) and I simply invert anything put out by our government and its propoganda units in the MSM. The constant barrage of lies over the last two years means that my position is entrenched. The US and EU have engineered this war and deliberately provoked Putin and Russia. The deaths and casualties are on our government’s heads. The miseries to come are deliberate. And what happens when the war is over? We have deliberately scorched any chances of a rapprochement with Russia, the Ukraine might take years to recover and Europe will be all but blitzed out if this goes on much longer. Some of the devastation will be months behind the cessation of hostilities. Pro Ukraine anti Russian is simply a broken bridge, a pathetic square off. I have no ill feelings towards Russia and certainly not to the Russian people. I feel very sad for the suffering of the Ukrainian people. The fact remains that western governments have inflicted this needless conflict on the world and the fact that few, if any public figures have raised their voices to denounce this… Read more »

ebygum
4 years ago
Reply to  huxleypiggles

But they just can’t help themselves…and it seems they are reverting to type….
Imran Khan believes the USA tried to oust him…
“The US has always used Pakistan to meet its strategic goals and when the purpose was served it abandoned and slapped sanctions on the country, while “friend” China stood the test of time, Prime Minister Imran Khan has said.  
Whenever the US needed us, they established relations, and Pakistan became a frontline state (against Soviet) he said”

The fact that no one is talking peace, that no one is trying to find a peaceful or political solution, including it seems Zelenskyy himself…tends to show this is a Western Agenda against Russia, and the poor ordinary people of the Ukraine are being used as a battering ram…..

John Dee
4 years ago

As ever, I’m unwilling to believe the propaganda emerging from either side. One worrying article like this, even in a state-owned news outlet, does not mean that most Russians think this way.

GlassHalfFull
4 years ago

Oh dear. The writer of this article has lapped up the lies and propaganda against Russia. Although the neo-Nazis don’t bother that much with elections they are hugely influential in all spheres of Ukrainian life. They admitted 90% responsibility for the outcome of the Maidan coup even though they were only 5% of the mob. The CIA and other western spooks have been training Ukraine in the dark arts for many years. What is happening in Ukraine is exactly what happened in Syria with the CIA/UK trained White Helmets fabricating events to blame Russia and the Syrian government. Civilians are killed by the neo-Nazis and deliberately left in the streets to blame it on Russia. Empty hospitals are used by the neo-Nazis to shell the ethnic Russian civilians. Russian diplomats tell the UN they have been told by Ukraine the hospital is empty. Russia returns fire on the Ukrainian artillery to protect the ethnic Russian civilians. In the aftermath it just so happens that a pregnant top Ukrainian media influencer is filmed coming out of the hospital by a top Ukrainian photographer (not by a first responder on their mobile phone). Other crisis actors and corpses from elsewhere are also… Read more »

greggsy01
greggsy01
4 years ago
Reply to  GlassHalfFull

and the most horrible bit of the public believing all the lies and propaganda is that Ukrainian civilians keep dying and they keep fleeing and the public themselves becoming considerably poorer with each and every day thanks to the manufactured consent for US/Nato war against Russia by the hands of Ukrainians till the last Ukrainian.

Fingal
Fingal
4 years ago
Reply to  GlassHalfFull

The writer of this article has lapped up the lies and propaganda against Russia.

The Russian defence ministry has claimed that while Bucha was under Russian control “not a single local resident has suffered from any violent action”.

Do you believe this?

GlassHalfFull
4 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

I would rather believe the Russian Defence Ministry than a bunch of neo-Nazis.

Fingal
Fingal
4 years ago
Reply to  GlassHalfFull

Ok, well at least you’re not pretending to be in any way accurate.

Dan777
Dan777
4 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

Yesterday, Russia requested an urgent meeting at the UN Security Council to investigate what has taken place in Bucha, and this meeting and investigation was blocked by a vote from…… the UK.

Fingal
Fingal
4 years ago
Reply to  Dan777

No, they don’t want to investigate what happened at Bucha. They want to investigate fake news, of which they are the authors.

ebygum
4 years ago
Reply to  Fingal

…and if you are wrong? I mean I would love to know what makes you so sure you are right….?
As far as I can see the only things we know for sure are what the Ukrainians tell us…and that wouldn’t work in a magistrates court as evidence…..

Fingal
Fingal
4 years ago
Reply to  ebygum

Russian media is overtly state controlled. You couldn’t get less free media.

Multiple western reporters from many countries are in Ukraine, talking directly to locals and witnesses. For all of them to be lying is inconceivable.

They have satellite footage showing bodies in position weeks ago, then confirmed as areas are liberated.

Russian fake avatars are allover the place on social media, and have been for years.

I don’t know how much more evidence you can expect to see.

I really don’t get why so many members of this website are determined to disbelieve anything that comes out of democratic countries, while trusting everything that comes from autocrats. I mean, we know they’re lying.

JXB
JXB
4 years ago

When the death-toll in Ukraine at the hands of the Russians reaches the same number as the death-toll from mRNA experimental reagents, lockdown measures and slaughter of the elderly in USA & NATO Countries, let me know.

And speaking of NAZIS – how do they compare with the USA & NATO Governments putting healthy people under house arrest, in concentration camps, coercion to take experimental medical treatment, psychological measures to create panic in the population, on-going child abuse, and ruination of the economy and society.

Let’s put our own house in order and line up our own candidates for the International Court for their brutal crimes.

huxleypiggles
4 years ago
Reply to  JXB

Hear, hear.

Rogerborg
4 years ago

If you truly believe this, you’re free to sign up and fight in defence of Ukraine, chap. If you’re very lucky, you may be given a clapped out AK. If you’re really lucky, 10 rounds.

Let us know how that goes, if you’re able.

Lockdown Sceptic
4 years ago

Bracknell to welcome Ukrainian child refugees this week as council confirms number
https://www.getreading.co.uk/news/reading-berkshire-news/over-77-ukrainian-refugees-soon-23600877#comments-wrapper
Bracknell Forest Council is working to provide healthcare and education to all new arrivals
The only reply in comments.
“Sorry but I don’t share your sentiment about welcoming all these refugees, we have homeless British people on the streets & just reported, an RAF Veteran from WW2 is being kicked out of his care home because he has no more money left after the money they had from selling his home has run out. Disgraceful. We need to get our priorities right. Funny how the Councils always find housing for foreigners?.
Yebutnobut
14 HRS AGO”

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masksniffer22
4 years ago

How quickly mass opinions can change! I’ve read a few similar things from Russian voices in recent days, products of a taking a bath in Russian saviourhood and martyrology. “The West is and always has been the worst of the West, united against Russia. The worst of it is the inevitable outcome. The worst exposes the real, hidden ideology. The Nazis were an inside job, a cut-out to destroy the Slavs. History is to be looked at at bigger and bigger scales until the West v East divide is clear.” Once the target is demonised and the argument moves from evidence to morality, the pressure to keep a sound rational base for the demonisation drops away: any old anti-demon argument is ok, and so suddenly there’s confirming evidence everywhere, out comes the push pins and the red thread, and BLM and CRT are making some interesting points. It doesn’t take long to create such polarisation. Iceland took 30 years from its first Christian visitor to the final illegality of pagan sacrifice. Ukraine took 8 years of nationalist propaganda to render Russia’s expectation of being greeted with flowers totally obsolete. With Covid, a bit of shock and awe and the whole… Read more »

Mark
4 years ago
Reply to  masksniffer22

All true, but there is a danger in such equivalencing. It’s not paranoid if they really are out to get you.

The fact is that the US and its satellite states do view international legal constraints on the use of force as not applying to them, they do engage in active aggressive subversion of states that resist their rule, they have been enacting a clear policy of pushing NATO eastwards in order to “overextend and unbalance” Russia, they do use murderous extremists as tools for their policies (jihadists in the ME, nazis in Ukraine), they do have sophisticated propaganda operations incorporating the global mainstream media, deep state security structures with infinite funding and resources, and regulatory collaboration, to fabricate “false flag” smears, to manufacture consent for their actions, and to demonise their enemies.

The global power realities – a world dominated by a US superpower in the grip of a universalist woke globalist ideology, with many satellite states, a rising near peer rival in China, and some more or less independent powers such as Russia, are ultimately what matter.

masksniffer22
4 years ago
Reply to  Mark

The global power realities is what I’m having trouble with! Where are they, what are they? You’d think it’s oil or blood or soil and it should be easy to reduce matters to these in some simple combination, but even these seem to be just grist in the mill of highly abstract .. principalities and powers, or ‘egregores’ is a new term getting bandied about. Mass formations..
Everything melts into air, people are swept along in great vortexes, and others get shot in the head.

Mark
4 years ago
Reply to  masksniffer22

As far as the Ukraine is concerned, Mearsheimer’s is still the best summary:

Why is Ukraine the West’s Fault? Featuring John Mearsheimer

As for the global reality, well you can go into all kinds of convoluted speculations about where real power lies, but when it comes to wars, states are still where it’s at. The issues about who gets to wield the power of superpowers like the US and China, and second order powers like Russia etc is another level.

acle
acle
4 years ago

I make this the third article the DS has published discussing this issue. It is not much better than the two ‘A-level’ standard entries that came before it. Given the tagline of the DS starts with ‘Question everything’ why does the DS appear to be questioning nothing about the Ukraine situation? This article is analysing a piece of Russian propaganda. Could we not start by questioning our own propaganda, particularly the ‘shock and awe’ tactics of our own MSM? If this is a step too far for the DS, could they not start by analysing the West’s role in this whole awful conflict? Some easy easy starting points: The lockstep of all Western governments in lighting up their major landmarks in the colours of the Ukrainian flag The immediate flying of the Ukrainian flag in solidarity (do we keep every single country flag in stock in the event we need to show our support?) The constant appearance of Zelensky in box fresh khaki t shirts (a personal bugbear of mine). Given he is in a war zone how is he getting all these t shirts perfectly laundered? Next level scepticism: What is the West’s role in all of this? Why… Read more »

MrTea
MrTea
4 years ago
Reply to  acle

He’s probably in a Tel Aviv tv studio with a green screen for footage showing him in a war zone.

ebygum
4 years ago
Reply to  acle

Good post….my own bugbear with Zelenskyy is the constant round of ‘appearances’…(the Grammys for goodness sake!) and his constant berating of other countries..Germany should stop buying gas…NATO are cowards, the UN should disband if it doesn’t do as he asks!? Telling the EU it should push the Green Agenda?
who the hell does he think he is and why is anyone listening to him?
Why isn’t he in constant negotiations with Russia..shouldn’t that be taking up all of his time…?
The fact that this is going on just tells me it’s agenda driven by the West….it’s all about getting rid of Putin and Russia and it’s sphere of influence.

Matt Mounsey
Matt Mounsey
4 years ago

The West truly is the Empire of Lies and we all need to declare ourselves apart from it.

What’s really sad is that they’re not even very good lies. Surely we can do better than that half-assed Bucha production? I mean, doesn’t anyone check the footage before it goes out? Can’t we spare a bit in the budget for some fake blood and guts? Shouldn’t someone at least coach the mayor to act like there’s been a horrific massacre when he’s speaking to the press when the Russians leave?

I know the Western media have been getting a bit lazy since they realised they could tell their people men could have babies and they didn’t laugh in their faces. But using clips from computer games, shoddy footage of construction sites with wrecking balls airbrushed out to claim missile attacks and now this school-play level of a false flag is making it really difficult to keep a straight face. I keep waiting for one of the reporters to crack up and just start laughing hysterically, but they seem to have kept a lid on that, for now.

Dan777
Dan777
4 years ago
Reply to  Matt Mounsey

Yesterday, Russia requested an urgent meeting at the UN Security Council to investigate what has taken place in Bucha, and this meeting and investigation was blocked by a vote from…… the UK.

Matt Mounsey
Matt Mounsey
4 years ago
Reply to  Dan777

Exactly. The epicentre of the Empire of Lies is the UK. The country that calls itself the cradle of freedom and democracy. The world’s financial toilet.

I also think these “bio labs” deserve investigating at the UN. Until they are fully examined I’m inclined to believe Putin when he says they’re Weapons of Mass Destruction. At least he managed to find some when he went to war.

Old Bill
4 years ago

In order to get lds back on track, let me posit this question:
Where else have we seen populations wandering around happily one day and then three or four later lying dead in the street?
Begins with a W if I remember correctly.

MrTea
MrTea
4 years ago
Reply to  Old Bill

Wakanda?
Dead from stab wounds?

Amtrup
4 years ago
Reply to  Old Bill

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Milo
Milo
4 years ago
Reply to  Old Bill

Wuhan?

MrTea
MrTea
4 years ago

I alternate between wearing yellow and blue pants so I’ve done my bit.

Milo
Milo
4 years ago
Reply to  MrTea

Far TMI

Matt Mounsey
Matt Mounsey
4 years ago

Speaking of “re-education camps”, can we send some of our political and media class over as well?

You see, over the last few years they’ve taken mentally ill people that think they’re born into the bodies of the opposite sex and forced the rest of our societies to conform to those delusions. That’s just one example. When that wasn’t enough they systematically terrorised their populations for 2 years and forced them to undergo human genetic modification.

We used to commit people like this to lunatic asylums but that’s just not PC anymore, so maybe re-education is the last and only option.

MrTea
MrTea
4 years ago

Anyone that has spent any time looking into governments and propaganda will understand that false claims regarding war time atrocities are common place.
Some of the most important lies from WW2 are still protected to this day. Indeed in the UK all the hate speech laws and dis/mis information laws are being introduced as a way of preventing too many people discussing (amongst other things) the Holocaust in ways not approved of by those in power.

Francis64
4 years ago

I’ve reached the point where I don’t believe any one single source of information anymore regarding this war in Ukraine – neither one side or the other wins my support because neither seems convincing to me – it all seems to be endless made-up lies and propaganda from just about everyone involved and basically you just choose whose lies are most convincing to you personally. For example on the one hand I was reading about how Russian soldiers were killing innocent civilians before they left the places they’d occupied which is a possibility and I don’t deny it could be true I suppose, but then on the other hand I read that these dead civilians were actually shot by Ukrainian soldiers who entered these places after the Russians had left who then began rounding up anyone who was singled out as collaborating with the occupying Russian forces and shot them as traitors … which also sounds plausible to me too.

If you ask me – both sides and western governments are all as bad as one another and refusing to take sides one way or the other would be the best way forward out of this mess.

Dan777
Dan777
4 years ago
Reply to  Francis64

That is a sensible approach and you have the right idea.

I would like to add that while both sides make different claims, one version is closer to the truth than the other.

Yesterday, Russia requested an urgent meeting at the UN Security Council to investigate what has taken place in Bucha, and this meeting and investigation was blocked by a vote from…… the UK.

Mark
4 years ago
Reply to  Francis64

The aphorism “truth is the first casualty of war” is a familiar cliche for good reason. There are three important points here. First, we shouldn’t need to try to work out which side is telling the truth, because we are (or should be) neutrals here. That our rulers are not neutral explains the heavy propaganda campaign from the same people, by and large, who tried to convince us to panic over covid, worship BLM and succumb to climate alarmism. As you say, refusing to take one side or the other would be the correct approach, but our elites will not allow this. Accordingly, it is necessary to defend ourselves against the ongoing manipulation into taking the side supported by our elites. Second, it should not be important on the strategic level who is responsible for this or that atrocity. Atrocities happen in war on all sides. Those who want to highlight particular atrocities are invariably trying to manipulate you emotionally to get you to adhere the side they favour. This is a universal rule of human conflict and politics. Pay no attention to atrocity stories if you wish to retain the primacy of reason for yourself. And you have to… Read more »

Milo
Milo
4 years ago
Reply to  Francis64

And the massive problem, inherent in what you rightly describe, is that none of us can trust the MSM after the last 2 years of in some cases, downright lying, and mostly just propaganda. So who do you believe? I know I certainly wouldn’t know where to begin, but I am most certainly not going to believe anything that politicians say I should support.

RedhotScot
4 years ago
Reply to  Francis64

I can’t entirely disagree with you however, I will point out that Russia is the second most powerful armed force in the world. Were its objectives to cause civilian casualties it could have killed millions by now. This is war and everything is a possibility, and for others to dismiss out of hand the real possibility that Ukrainian soldiers might murder their own civilian population for the sake of PR mileage is not just naïve, it’s historically ignorant as it’s been perpetrated innumerable times in the past. What can we believe? Well, we are aware that Ukrainian forces have been conducting a war in the Donbas, but not a peep from western politicians or the media. As soon as Russia decides to react to EU and NATO hostility and clean up the Donbas at the same time, the media are now catastrophizing about WW3, a nuclear war with Russia, fuel shortages (despite Russia never shutting off gas supplies to the west during the entire cold war) food shortages, western inflation and petrol prices in the US. Have I missed anything? The fact is it took a war between Germany, the UK and the rest of Europe, Russia, the USA and… Read more »

huxleypiggles
4 years ago

Troll Alert

Fingal is on manoeuvres. Please ignore.

Milo
Milo
4 years ago
Reply to  huxleypiggles

you need to do a second alert for triplejabbed HP

huxleypiggles
4 years ago

Obviously I was too late.

This thread should be aborted.

Come on people, surely you can spot a 77 troll.