A Response to Toby Young’s Babyish Piece About Ukraine
There follows a guest post by Lynne Sash that’s a response to Toby’s FAQs on Putin’s invasion of Ukraine.
I have been a daily follower of this site despite having left the U.K. permanently two and half years ago. Even living in comparatively sane red-state Iowa, it was helpful to know that we weren’t alone in wondering what possessed politicians to damage their societies to no purpose, and I welcomed the site’s transformation into a more broad-based sceptical platform. But I was disappointed in Toby Young’s February 28th article about the war in Ukraine. It struck me as a retreat from scepticism at time when we very much need to press on. I’d like to focus on one section of the post relating to Russia’s view of NATO expansion.
Overall, Young seems inclined to analyse this situation by making moral assessments about who is good and who is bad, but in this context booing the villain is unhelpful. Despite the emotional tenor of our times, geopolitics is not a morality play. These decisions are only about the strategic interests of the country you are defending. To paraphrase Lord Palmerston, there are no perpetual friends or enemies, only perpetual interests. Our interests are not the same as those of our adversaries, so we either need to find a way to reconcile them in a satisfactory manner or prepare for an eventual war.
This is the primary source of our trouble with Russia today. For the last 30 years the U.S., and by extension NATO, have failed to acknowledge that Russia has legitimate interests in its near abroad. The Georgian conflict, which occurred after discussion of Georgia joining NATO, was a good example of this. Faced with a potential NATO member on its southern border, it was always likely that Russia would see the breakaway entities of Abkhazia and South Ossetia as buffer republics with whom it could cooperate. Georgian entry into South Ossetia meant that the Russians did cross the border while pushing them back into their own country. It is reasonable to ask what role foreign advisors played in this conflict, given that it was an opportunity to gauge the nature and strength of any Russian response.
Discussion about Ukraine joining NATO was even more consequential. Not only is Ukraine a large country directly bordering Russia, the Russians were leasing the naval base at Sevastopol in Crimea, which is the home of the Black Sea Fleet and their primary warm-water port. Although the lease was extended by another 25 years in 2010, a NATO-allied Ukraine would eventually make this position untenable for everyone given that, in the event of hostilities, NATO would certainly neutralise the base as a matter of urgency. At this point, detaching Crimea from Ukraine would have become a strategic priority for Russia, hence the 2014 referendum which achieved this without bloodshed but did not resolve the problem of a potential NATO force on Russia’s western border.
NATO forces in Ukraine have always been a red line for Russians. George Kennan knew this, and nothing has changed. The Russians, quite reasonably in my view, regard hostile NATO troops on their longest western border as an existential threat. Why, then, has the West continued to toy with this idea when it is bound to lead to conflict? My thinking is that the West has been hoping that continuing or increased economic sanctions would weaken Russia to the point that it could do nothing to oppose Ukrainian membership of NATO. But that hasn’t worked.
There’s a comparison that’s been made frequently since the war broke out that I think is reasonable and instructive. If Russia engaged in the kind of activity in Mexico as the U.S. has in Ukraine, the U.S. Army would have been on its way to Mexico City long ago. There would be no talk of sovereignty or democracy, only the hard reality that Russians could not be allowed to expand and strengthen their presence on our border. And we would, for once, be right. It is not in the interest of our national security to permit it.
Russia aside, it is not at all clear that continued NATO expansion is beneficial to its member states. The original strength of the alliance lay in the fact that it had a limited membership agreed on the defined objective of containing Soviet expansion. But the world has changed since 1949, which has given rise to two problems that haven’t received enough attention. First of all, if NATO is still a defensive alliance, who or what is it defending itself against? The spontaneous response to this would be to identify Russia as the adversary, but this in turn implies that the existence of NATO itself casts Russia in the role of perpetual enemy. Unsurprisingly, the Russians have worked this out for themselves and concluded that their own national interests are likely to play out against a background of low-level Western hostility.
The other problem is the divergence of interests amongst NATO members themselves. In 1952 it made sense to include Turkey in the alliance: the country controls access to the Black Sea and its sheer size made it a regional power. Seventy years later it’s harder to see how our interests are aligned with those of Turkey. The renewed prominence of Islam in Turkey’s political calculations sets it at odds with its Western neighbours. Similarly, further NATO expansion risks drawing in countries whose own perception of their national interests may involve relying on NATO support for actions that were unanticipated by larger allies.
This issue becomes more acute as we consider membership for the larger countries bordering Russia. How precisely is our own security enhanced by including Georgia and Ukraine in NATO? This would certainly antagonise Russia while committing us to the defence of countries which, to speak frankly, have an axe to grind with their large neighbour. It is entirely possible that a limited regional conflict could be incited in the expectation that it would draw in the rest of NATO, as required by Article 5, and involve them in a direct attack on Russia. The unwieldy nature of an ever-expanding NATO carries significant risks that are not widely appreciated.
Where does this leave us now? The short answer is that we need to stop digging. Western policy decisions have contributed enormously to this crisis, and we need to understand and accept that if we intend to change it. As a matter of urgency Ukraine should be recognised as a buffer state between Russia and NATO allies. There should be an agreement of no NATO membership for Ukraine and preferably no EU membership. The ideal outcome would be international acknowledgement of both Ukraine and Belarus as non-aligned buffer states with no foreign military presence. It is possible to argue that this rewards Russia for its invasion, but given ongoing U.S./NATO provocation that refuses to even acknowledge Russian security concerns, how are the Russians to legitimately respond? The U.S. and its allies seem to arrogate to themselves the right to do a lot of things in the interests of national security that they won’t then let other countries do. This isn’t tenable, and if it isn’t addressed honestly by the West it is going to continue to cause resentment.
I have enormous sympathy for Ukrainians and I hope that, if our homes were under attack, we’d fight with as much determination as them. But while I don’t approve of the invasion, I do think it was inevitable. If we’re going to poke the Russians, they will poke back or else accept that the West has a free hand in their sphere of interest and, eventually, in Russia itself. We also have to ask ourselves whether the West is wasting whatever strength it has to the benefit and encouragement of China. Taiwan aside, if Russia is squeezed to the point of collapse, the Chinese are just across the Amur assessing the resource base of Siberia and the Russian Far East and are likely to be capable of denying the West access to these resources if they choose. I doubt the Hubristic Class has thought this far ahead.
Finally, I was disappointed to see Toby Young suggest that sceptics should take a certain view of this crisis. The sceptical way is the dispassionate way: we should be clear about our own objectives and understand how to manage adversarial relationships to achieve them with a minimum of conflict. It is very difficult to avoid being sucked into the contemporary emotional vortex – I’ve lost track of the number of times I’ve screamed ‘Are you fucking kidding me?’ over the past two years – but it solves nothing, and neither will the simple solution of defining Putin as a bad guy. The adults left the room long ago, so let’s at least try to provide a mature perspective that is not driven by the overriding need to be publicly perceived as Good People by the megaphone-holders of progressivism.
Now you must excuse me while I return to my prepping activities in anticipation of societal collapse.
After a degree in International Relations, Lynne Sash worked in the U.K. for 30 years providing international research and strategy consultancy services for the engineering, defence, and healthcare industries. In 2019 she returned to Iowa, where she is assembling a library of ‘cancelled’ books.
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Hard to disagree with this article. When people look at some of the other conflicts have happened, there is a lot of moral high ground being taken. Bad situation
Yes exactly.
At the weekend I read “The Great Covid Panic” by Paul Frijters, Gigi Foster and Michael Baker. Recognising the madness that has engulfed the planet for the last two years, the authors look for some positives and are, at least in the mid to long term, quite optimistic. You may or may not agree with this analysis but one of the things that I think they have right is that the Covid debacle has awakened a sizeable minority of the population to the propaganda, outright lies and nudges that we are increasingly being subjected to. We will not fall asleep again easily. I think perhaps before Covid I would have been outraged by the invasion of Ukraine but having seen the relentless propaganda against Russia, I was immediately suspicious. Toby is right that we shouldn’t, on principle, mistrust everything, but having read a bit about the history of this situation, I have come to understand that we are definitely not the good guys here. I suppose I have had a ‘Are we the baddies’ moment. I don’t think I was completely naive prior to Covid but I am, to some extent, embarrassed by how much I accepted conventional wisdoms. I… Read more »
Well said.
When the covid mania started I instinctively felt the authoritarianism was wrong but my own lack of firm knowledge meant I was confused. Then the mask mandates started and I then knew my instinct had served me well. Now we had history being consigned to an Orwellian memory hole.
Once you know somebody is a liar, you question everything they tell you. It doesn’t mean that everything they say is a lie but it does mean you cannot trust what comes out of their mouths and everything has to be considered sceptically and corroborated.
Safer to assume it is all lies and be surprised at the occasion glint of truth!
It is truth only when it is officially denied.
Upticked, but very Pythoness.. ‘only the true messiah denies he is the messiah etc etc
let battle begin….
Speaking of words coming out of peoples’ mouths. The “journalist” who cried to Boris at a podium on television the other day is groomed by the World Economic Forum.
https://thenationalpulse.com/2022/03/01/the-crying-journalist-demanding-boris-drags-britain-to-war-is-a-biden-linked-world-economic-forum-global-leader/
Now, strategically speaking, why would the WEF with its desire for a Great Reset want to push a no-fly zone for Ukraine and to drag the UK into war? Just a question for thought.
If I were a propagandist, I’d quickly cotton on to the fact that war triggers more primal emotional responses than plagues, climate change or anything else. Which of us before becoming aware of the cynical games being played, in honesty didn’t experience both the thrill of fear AND a certain gung-ho excitement at seeing US drones taking out “bad guys” on 24-hour TV? How many of us ever thought “poor Iraqis/Libyans/Serbians/Syrians/Vietnamese” the way we’re now constantly reminded to think “poor Ukrainians”?
We knew then, just as much as now, that innocent bystanders were being obliterated, but somehow it was Saddam’s fault for having all those non-existent WMD. We knew – because Rumsfeld had more than hinted at it – that torturing prisoners and lengthy imprisonment without trial (POWs excluded from the Geneva Convention by our diktat) was now our policy, but the news kept on telling us they were the bad guys, so it was OK, and the big bangs were, actually, rather thrilling if you weren’t actually there.
War creates much thicker fog when covered by 24-hour news than when two tribes throw spears at each other. And those in power know it well.
That is why we now have a war the “West” want to escalate. ( See Truss’ ridiculous and dangerous suggesting that we encourage mercenaries to go to Ukraine designed to inflame and extend the conflict ) .
Truss – “Foreign Secretary”( sic) did not even know that Rostov is in Russia.
If she was instead a fictional minister in a film or tv programme you would say that someone showing such naivety and general ignorance would never be in government, but, there you are, and there she is. Frightening. And it’s not just her, is it? What a bunch of numpties (and I’m being polite there).
And far too many of them are women, few of whom have the strength of character of a Mrs Thatcher. As a female myself it gives me no joy to say this, but I think too many women in positions of power weaken a society.
They know all the rules and have done since pre World War 1. The ‘Babies on Bayonets’ was a classic piece of British war time propaganda which people still seem to believe to this day. The whole donating pots and pans campaign was a propaganda campaign in the second world war (the metal wasn’t used, it was mostly useless for the war effort) all psychology. The Soviet Union was also great at this ‘Greater Good’ stuff. Everything is taking us towards collectivism (Great Reset) and away from independent thought.
‘5 Rules of Propaganda’
Simplification – Simplification into black and white, good and bad
Disfiguration – Discrediting the opposition by crude smears and parodies
Transfusion – Manipulating the consensus values of the target audience for one’s own ends
Unanimity – Presenting one’s viewpoint as if it were the unanimous opinion of all right thinking people
Orchestration – Endlessly repeating the same message in different variations and combination
And all other news outlets closed down. RT.
Actually, I gained a basic awareness in 1991, or 1992. Living in another, European, NATO state, for a couple of years, and listening to the Radio 4 LW news, while in that environment, was just enough for me.
>>How many of us ever thought “poor Iraqis/Libyans/Serbians/Syrians/Vietnamese” the way we’re now constantly reminded to think “poor Ukrainians”?
Well I have thought that. Especially about Syria. That war is worse than anything Sadat has done.
But countries that are at constant internal civil war have already crossed the line to violence and it is easier to add to it.
And our interests are different in Ukraine. On one hand Russia can destroy the world. On the other: If we cannot respond competently to Ukraine we are inviting a long Russian march through Europe. Aren’t we? Why would Putin stop if we show ourselves to be so “civilized”-“cowardly” that we will never stand up to him?
He is welcome to Ukraine.
On one hand Russia can destroy the world.
Unfortunately, Russia is a proper subset of the world and hence, Russia can destroy the world (assuming they actually can, weapons tend to perform a lot less well in the real world than in propaganda movies) really means The Russian government can commit suicide and destroy Russia in the process of it. A dead person has no way to be happy about or profit from another person being also dead. Life is no Bond-Movie and wars aren’t being fought by evil villains seeking destruction for the sake of it.
On the other: If we cannot respond competently to Ukraine we are inviting a long Russian march through Europe. Aren’t we?
Not really. If the invasion of Ukraine turns out to be successful, this will encourage Putin and/or subsequent rulers of Russia do settle other disputes with unaligned states with military might as well. This might become an issue for the Caucasus states and could also become one for Finland. It’s a bit unclear what could be gained from occupying that, though.
Thanks for the answer! I’m not really taking a position for war. Rather I want to be sure that a weak response won’t make things worse.
There do exist suicide bombers and crazy people.
And frankly, Ukranians seem awfully brave in a way that contrasts with the covid fear of the west. Would our citizens even have the balls to fight?
And frankly, Ukranians seem awfully brave in a way that contrasts with the covid fear of the west. Would our citizens even have the balls to fight?
Probably. But I don’t think our dominant caste would ever dare to ask for that.
The BBC reported, apparently without any sense of irony, that the US are concerned about Russia closing down social media channels or censoring them, to prevent misinformation and stifle discussion (aka “dissent”).
With such examples of barefaced hypocrisy on the part of Western so-called democracies, whether arising from ignorance or intent, and forgetting the suppression of any views or comments deviating from the ordained Covid “narrative”, with the hounding of “dissidents” to the extent of criminalising them, I don’t think that we have much to say to the Russians.
We definitely do not deserve to ride a high moral horse, and I doubt that many people will perceive the lies and see through the propaganda or pap with which they are copiously fed daily by the UK government and its branches, including the NHS.
It’s a good point. But dont we know this enough already? That theres an overt double standard on both sides. A false battle. Who would like to join me in a discussion about why, when both sides are cog diss, when both sides are following the money, when both sides are crooked, why, we never make progress, and look authentically into why this is happening? Letting it take us wherever it might lead. Is it because we are both self hypnotised, so facts to both of us are meaningless. Ditto for using God as the ally of both sides. Who wants to start looking into, what can only be described as ‘the collective psyche’, to analyse what is going on at a deeper level? I realise to most this will be an analysis of mumbo jumbo. Fair enough. So tell me about an alternative place to look given the material world of facts, logic and reason are failing us so badly. And quid pro quo, I promise to go with you. I’m all ears. Let’s stop banging a drum that’s long been known to be the place where nothing ever proceeds. And step off the well trodden path into the… Read more »
I read a few articles over the weekend from MSM ‘journalists’ outraged at this illegal war? The lack of self-awareness and the stench of hypocrisy was over-powering!
I no longer believe the MSM – about anything.
Well welcome Miles to reality, but not to insult “What took you so long?”
I have felt this way for 10 years.
The safest option!
I no longer read anything in the MSM. The last thing the Daily Sceptic should be doing is joining the anti-Russia wolf pack. Full marks though to DS for being big enough to publish the excellent piece from Lynne Sash.
The BBC is beyond redemption for me. It’s a tragedy, but it’s been destroyed from within.
I agree.
Anyone decent there has long since begun balen out.
(Yes, pun alert. The suppression of the Balen Report should have brought a Select Committee in Parliament. It’s a stain on the history of British national character that it didn’t.)
Agreed. We’ve seen the ‘unmasking’ of agendas and that we’ve misplaced our trust. No way back.
The majority would not know what you are talking about – that is the problem and with a censored media and Social Media “Opinion Leaders” are not allowed to lead!.
Our own “never missed” Nick Clegg’s £££££££££ job with Zuckerberg is now to control and fix the narrative
Whose fault it is is meaningless, which side you take is crucial.
Crucial to what/whom?
To yourself, your survivability and the way of life you are left with.
We’re being offered a shit sandwhich, and you seem to think it’s cruital which end we take a bite from.
In that context, hunger strike is still an option.
Long way to go yet!
Try the “Great Reset” and “The Fourth Industrial Revolution ” by Klaus Schwab and look around you – it’s all in there in plain sight and black and white!
Schwab’s disciples include Trudeau, Macron and Ardern with may others across the world – (including the Mayor of Kiev and many in the US)
Then look up Gates’ stated plans for the use of forced global vaccinations to control “World Health” politics, behaviour, and population.
Johnson will be signing us up to the draconian WHO project any time soon.
The “journalist” who cried to Boris at a podium on television the other day is groomed by Klaus Schwab.
https://thenationalpulse.com/2022/03/01/the-crying-journalist-demanding-boris-drags-britain-to-war-is-a-biden-linked-world-economic-forum-global-leader/
Why would the World Economic Forum with its desire for a Great Reset want to push the UK into war, I wonder?
Nice one.
Exactly how I feel. As the old adage goes, once you’ve seen it you can’t unsee it. That’s why I was so surprised by Toby’s apparent naivety. It was like he’d just had enough of how draining it is to consider another side to the argument.
Everything in the media is propaganda, unfortunately they have moved on from their usual social engineering to real war where millions of people could lose their lives. People need to recognise propaganda and think twice before getting emotional, no normal people will benefit from this war only the elites. Without their media the elite couldn’t start wars.
‘5 Rules of Propaganda’
Simplification – Simplification into black and white, good and bad
Disfiguration – Discrediting the opposition by crude smears and parodies
Transfusion – Manipulating the consensus values of the target audience for one’s own ends
Unanimity – Presenting one’s viewpoint as if it were the unanimous opinion of all right thinking people
Orchestration – Endlessly repeating the same message in different variations and combination
Sadly, I am now of the opinion that no normal people have benefited from ANY war.
Last night, when Mark Dolan was covering on GB News for Dan Wootton, in his opening monologue he questioned whether a “mono-narrative” is ever a good thing and went on to explain that, just like was the case for covid, where dissenting voices were not allowed to be heard, all across MSM we now have the position on Ukraine where it is ‘Ukraine good Putin bad’, and no other arguments are considered. He also went so far as to point out that almost overnight across the world covid “disappeared” and was replaced by “war in Ukraine” on MSM news cycles. His monologue is well worth a watch if you can find it because he comes as close as he can to saying on UK TV what we think and say here – AKA covid was a fraud to establish control and it is almost as if we are being moved down a pathway by MSM towards the great reset. I can’t wait to see what he leads with tonight. Most pertinently, there was a discussion about a government plan to start sending alerts to all smartphones to warn of storms or flooding in your area – like some kind of… Read more »
I think you are right. Just to give another example, which is trivial in itself, but part of the problem you are describing, last summer I was waiting for a train. It was about 22 degrees C – just about warm enough not to need a jacket. The PA announced that we should drink plenty of water and take extra care due to the hot weather. This safetyism, whether intentional or not, does seem to be infantalising the public.
Government ‘advice’ will eventually become government ‘orders’. lt’s just a question of getting us used to being controlled via our phones.
Regarding your comment on “mass fear porn”. This is already common and accepted in the health industry. Join a health scheme and you get a complete scan which is likely to show up problems which should really be ignored. The idea of a mammograph is now universally accepted whereas research suggests it doesn’t increase lifespan at all – the opposite, in fact. Who benefits? Follow the money.
If you mean mammogram I couldn’t agree more – they are notorious for mistakenly identifying an area of dense tissue as a tumour and a lot of women are given false positive results leading to horrendous anxiety and hideous treatment for a cancer that never was.
You are absolutely right – follow the money – the people with the vested interests who stand to benefit from their use as a diagnostic tool don’t want the majority of people to know that.
Plus, for anyone who is interested, both the process used to take the mammogram and the degree of radiation the tissue is exposed to during the process cause more harms and cases of breast cancer over time. When you think of it it is actually quite barbaric and insane that in the third decade of the 21st century a better modality for diagnosis has not been invented.
Mammograms banned in Switzerland. Tells you everything.
See the latest edition of Nexus, where the excellent Dr Mercola has an article entitled ‘The war on women’s breasts’, about just this subject. Amongst the points he makes is that the high dose radiation used is itself a potential contributor to the development of breast cancer.
One point I will make is that women should make far less use of underarm deodorants, many of which contain aluminium. Sweat after all is the body’s way of removing toxins – just washing more makes more sense.
Too right. Just today my wife, who is recovering from having an implantable cardioverter defibrillator (ICD) fitted, received a bowel cancer test kit sent through the post by the NHS. It was never asked for and it’s certainly wasn’t welcome. This constant warning syndrome about this or that serious illness on TV, in GP waiting rooms and elsewhere is just one long continuation of the fear factor. Don’t these stupid people behind all this business not understand that fear itself is a the greatest danger to health. Or perhaps they do?
Soon you will go further, and deeper. Then your whole previous reality collapses and even in a crowded room, you find yourself constantly alone, unable to relate to anyone. Then your personal struggle starts.
Dogman – there are events every generation which awaken subpopulations of humanity. 911 certainly did that for millions. Allied to the Iraq war, it cemented in huge numbers of people that the US/UK axis of propaganda had agendas most found disgusting and horrific. All of us activated during that episode were entirely ready for Covid19’s nonsense. Climate Change is a greater challenge. It’s easy to dupe the uneducated when an extreme weather event occurs, the problem is that the checks and balances of climate often occur over timescales of close to a lifetime or in some aspects, 10 generations. That’s much more subtle and much more difficult to break people free of. I think 40 years ago, ‘the winter of discontent’ opened the eyes of Millions of British people to the excesses of Trades Unions. I’m not against Unions, as I think they are a necessary counter-balance to hyper-fascistic capitalist CEOs and Board members, not to mention parasitic investors and ‘left wing public sector functionaries’. They are less necessary if family businesses treat all employees with the respect they are due. But a lot of people’s views changed decisively in 1978/9. What’s important is that people are on the ball… Read more »
may i suggest you read a bit more?
maybe you can start with the report on the 2014 shooting down of flight mh17 over ukrainian territory by russian armed forces?
of course russia has denied any involvement….
you russian bots have come a long way in a short time…..
It would be just another “conspiracy theory” without a list of world leaders uttering the same phrase, now it can join the list of “Conspiracy theories” that came true during the Covid era.
https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/world-news/corruption/ukrainian-parliament-member-we-fight-for-this-new-world-order/
When are the adults going to step up and start talking with both sides, watching people die whilst one side throws playground names at the other, and taking away their pocket money, is becomming tedious.
https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/international-news/russia/the-real-backdrop-nobody-will-discuss/
Well said!
I read the second of the armstrong links – excellent article
Armstong was interviewed on Del Bigtrees highwire, ~early Feb, before Ukraine kicked off, this is one of the best interviews I’ve watched, so much insight, makes sense of a lot of stuff that seems nonsensical, well worth listening to.
from 1:00:00 in for about an hr +20 mins
https://thehighwire.com/videos/episode-253-canceling-covid/
Thanks – will check it out!
As things stand there will be no winners in this whole tragic debacle, except China.
Have you ever been to China. I see few winners there. Still, at least parents have stopped eating their children I guess.
I mean the rulers.
The “Rulers” and “Would be Rulers” are currently winning around the world – this “Global Coup” against the people of the world has been thirty years in the planning
And the rest, it’s generational.
“It is very difficult to avoid being sucked into the contemporary emotional vortex”.
It is difficult but thankfully I’ve been able to build up my natural immunity over the past two years.
Naturally immunity was only discovered this year…
By some…..
They still managed to inject two thirds of the population and are still working quietly now on the children through their schools!
Brilliant and spot on article.
times like this it’s absolutely necessary to be sceptical, no need for a tin foil hat but certainly a need to understand what’s going on behind the scenes.
the msm and governments have spent 2 years lying to us, the EU have spent the last almost 6 years having a fit because we left and kicking up a stink because we are a large trading block on their border, it’s only rational the Russians think the same when They have a huge military alliance setting up shop in their former territories that are still of strategic importance to them.
the US or UK would do exactly what Russia are doing if the table’s where turned.
we are not getting much of the message of why in the uk, just graphic shots of the how.
the west trying to pull former Russian provinces into its orbit is what is causing this mess.
Exactly. It’s the Cuban Missile Crisis of the 60s all over again, except roles are reversed. Instead of Soviet nukes on USA’s doorstep kicking up a fuss, it’s now US nukes on Russia’s doorstep kicking up a fuss.
As for the players behind the scenes with their own motivations, the “journalist” who cried to Boris at a podium on television the other day is groomed by the World Economic Forum.
https://thenationalpulse.com/2022/03/01/the-crying-journalist-demanding-boris-drags-britain-to-war-is-a-biden-linked-world-economic-forum-global-leader/
Whilst not in any way excusing Putin’s violent invasion of Ukraine, this article is correct. The EU and NATO have poked the Russian bear and the bear has behaved in accordance with its nature.
By continually requesting a NATO-enforced no fly zone and now applying for fast-track EU membership, the Ukrainians are making it clear that they do not want to be a buffer state between the EU/NATO and Russia and therefore more likely that Putin will pursue his invasion by increasingly violent means.
A lone, Ukranian imbecile has asked for a no fly zone.
This whole mess starting with covid is like something from a Tom Clancy novel. 4 complex seemingly unrelated plots that collide in a final page turning crescendo.
it’s a shame Tom is no longer here, I’d love to know what he would think.
as ever a Tom Novell relevant to recent events.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Command_Authority
I wish I could write this well.
There is nothing in this article that I am not in 100% agreement.
This is rare, usually there is aspect I would assess or emphasise differently, but not this time.
Bravo!
I’ve almost stopped reading the Spectator because there is nothing there but UK government propaganda and one-sided war mongering. It is quite clear Russia would not have invaded UK rain without some good reason. All I’ve heard so far is wild speculation about biological labs and UK rain -BuyThem corruption. This article makes a lot more sense than anything else.
Yes Mike I am also in the same boat, I just can’t read any of their shrill hyperbolic articles, and their almost myopic focus on a single issue. Often times I am paying £9.99 to see the comments.
‘Almost’. lol. Person: My uncle thinks he’s a chicken. Doctor: why don’t you put him in a hospital? Person: We would except we need the eggs.
The Speccie, totally suspect, but the odd decent egg.
There are US nuke-ready Aegis Ashore missile systems in Poland and Romania at ~10 minute flight time to Moscow. If Ukraine was included, as planned, the similar system there would be ~5 minute flight time to Moscow. NATO has been training the whole Ukraine military to NATO standards since 2017, and Zelensky recently stated he wanted nukes ie the time was close for Ukraine to join NATO.
Russia was presented with an existential threat by NATO and Ukraine. I had no choice but to act.
How would the US react if Mexico was to host Russian nuke ready missiles with a ~5 minute flight time to Washington DC?
Untrue and babyish.
Care to expand on your exceptionally concise critique?
I am sure we all would appreciate being better informed.
He would, if not “appreciate”, clearly benefit more!
Declares the, uh, man with a pretend space soldier as his avatar.
Stick to painting dolls, adults are speaking.
Pompous justifiers of naked aggression are ranting, more like.
When people are being slaughtered, we should stand up to it.
What’s untrue, precisely?
That the West is just as much to blame as Russia.
more to blame in my view.
Nuances don’t stop nukes.
No – it’s much more to blame. The USA has been a force for evil for decades now.
Is Putin a force for good?
For ordinary Russians? Yes.
If you cannot acknowledge the grubby fingerprints of the CIA all over the manipulation of Ukraine and then the Western MSM, then you won’t agree.
Unfortunately, it means you are as guilty of swallowing this propaganda, as the people were who believed the propaganda that Covid was the new Black Death.
Perhaps you should ponder that? And also think about how many military invasions the USA has been involved with over the last 70 years. Do you really think the USA is a force for good?
IF I have to choose sides, it will be based on the lesser evil in this case. We can all make our own decisions, unless we live in Russia.
Why do you think Russians can’t make decisions?
You think Americans are free to make decisions that disagree with the narrative? Where have you been for the past 2 years?
When I was younger, I used to think than Jon Pilger and his anti-Americanism was a joke. I realise now that we’ve been manipulated by the MSM (including TV shows/movies) to believe that black-is-white, up-is-down.
I’m not claiming that the USSR was virtuous (far from it!), merely that the USA played a neat trick in presenting it as an evil empire, with the implication that the USA was the good empire!
Judge a nation by its actions – consider: Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya, etc. And which is the only nation to drop atomic weapons on a civilian population?
I’m not suggesting Americans are evil people – merely the ones in charge of all the above actions!
It’s time people opened their eyes to the propaganda.
“force for good” is one of those meaningless phrases.
Am I a force for good? Are you? Is Boris Johnson? Is Biden? Macron?
I mean, what a pointless statement.
Did you stand up when the Ukrainian army was bombing and shelling civilians in the Donbass region? Around 14,000 were killed, not to mention the false flag attack on MH17, which contrary to popular belief, was brought down by Ukrainian forces?
People being slaughtered is wrong, that is without question, but simply putting one set of civilians above the other, is also wrong. Life is a life regardless of whether it is a Ukrainian, a Russian, an Iraqi, etc.
Your avatar is sooooo creative, adult man.
Painting dolls? Isn’t that a GRU hobby?
Long term I couldn’t say. But in the short to middle term I fear my government and other leaders of western countries far more than I fear Russia and Putin.
I have an online acquaintance who has lived in Russia since the wall feel. He’s a journalist (oil & gas) so easy to establish his credentials.
He tells me Russia is the model of personal freedom, jealously guarded by the population who fought so hard for it.
Dear Toby,
Please invite Ms. Sash onto the DS team and payroll.
Class, pure class.
Credit to Toby and the Daily Sceptic for being willing to stay sceptical in publishing the dissenting view even when he himself is fully in the grip of the mass hysteria. One day it will be interesting to read Toby’s memoirs of his days at the Sceptic and especially the pressures he comes under, and the disagreements amongst his team.
Now we just wait to see how much self harm “the west” will do while both still in the grip of the tail end (hopefully) of the covid hysteria and descending into the full depths of the Russia hysteria. Every measure taken supposedly against Russia harms us, either in the opportunity costs the expenditure represents, or the general economic damage caused by “sanctions”, or in the consequences such actions will trigger.
But we should understand that everything we do “in response” to Russia’s actions in the Ukraine represents damage inflicted upon ourselves, as a result of our own side’s actions. And by “our”, clearly I mean that in the notional collective sense. None of us here had anything to do with the decisions in question, of course.
Very good Mark, one of the major differences between ‘us’ realists and those on yhe ‘dark side’ is that we can be involved in real open if different discussions.
Contrast that with the WuFlu and Global warming cultists were no dissent is permitted.
For that reason alone I am glad to be on the right side of history with Toby.
I agree wholeheartedly with this article.
Additionally, I am very concerned about the politicians and MSM demonizing ordinary Russian people in this country, who have nothing to do with this reprehensible invasion.
Whenever there is a terrorist attack we’re told not to scapegoat all members of the terrorist’s ethnic or religious group, and to ‘not look back in anger’, but it seems that this goes out of the window when it’s Russians.
Like Covid hysteria before it, politicians and the MSM are whipping up another bout of hysteria, and this is feeding into more and more extreme rhetoric and calls for rediculous measures like deporting Russian nationals.
Putin is no angel, the invasion is wrong and a tragedy, but the hysterical reaction in the West isn’t helping and is making things worse.
People need to be dispassionate, and a solution to this crisis worked out that allows all sides to be satisfied.
Russia entering Ukraine is NOT “reprehensible” or “wrong”.
It is Russian self preservation forced on them by the US.
8 years of diplomacy have got Russia nowhere, thousands of ethnic Russians have been slaughtered by the Ukraine military and fascist Ukraine wants to join NATO and have nuclear weapons aimed at Russia.
If anyone wants to know why Russia is doing this all they have to do is listen to what Putin and Lavrov have said recently.
Innocent civilians are suffering due to US policy.
Well said!
Why do you call it an” invasion” when if the West were doing it, it would be called “a surgical, anti-terrorist operation to protect an ethnic Russian civilian population from genocidal assault “?
Remember Bosnia and Serbia?
A point I have made elsewhere about the demonisation of Russians living in the UK. But of course they are, for the most part, white so do not conform to the concept of racial discrimination as practised in the west.
Spot on.
I doubt the Hubristic Class has thought this far ahead.
There are a few succinct and quotable phrases in the article but this is the standout one for me. It’s so applicable to the covid and energy fiascos as well as foreign policy.
I have to ask what do the recent NATO acqisitions bring to the alliance? Certainly they have little to contribute militarily, however they do allow NATO access right up to the Russian border.
One suggestion is that they help maintain a “cordon sanitaire” between united Germany and Russia – the fear of a German – Russian alliance ( like the Ribbentrop – Molotov pact of 1939) terrfies the Pentagon ( and many Polish Americans for obvious reasons) as these two powers united would form a formidable power block. Hence the American determination to wreck Nordstream 2 ( very sensible and important for power-starved Germany) – now successful because of a weak, Red-Green, totally incompetent German Government, under ex-extreme Leftist Scholz bowing to US pressure ( see photos of him when he had Big Hair and friends in the DDR !)
In the long run ‘taking down’ Russia as the principal oppositional Nuclear Power and stealing her raw material assets is of prime concern to the US Military.
An excellent, well crafted, and objective piece.
Thank you to both the author, and the DS for publishing it.
For a further insight into Russian myths vs Russian reality, this interview is well worth a listen.
https://www.corbettreport.com/waggaman-ukraine/
Everything from WEF influence, promoted ‘failed’ politicians, to Russia’s ‘Amazon’, (that used to be a bank, but is now developing vaccines and biometric IDs.)
Big Russian bear takes dump on European threshold. West sends bear to naughty step,advocates potty training
A sober analysis that backs up what many of us BTL-ers have been saying from the off. For additional background Professor Mearsheimer’s 2015 University of Chicago lecture is required viewing (which should have been for the DS editorial team before some of the knee jerk comments that simply echoed the MSM narrative, something that didn’t ring true with the DS cry to arms to Question Everything & Live Free). But there is another much darker side to this, and events over the last 48 hours have show precisely why Putin couldn’t sit back any longer. The EU has openly pledged to destroy Russia’s industrial capacity, with the unelected German EU president joyfully laying out these pledges to the adulation of MEPs while championing Germany’s new military renaissance. Ironically the 1945 ERP (the Marshall plan) was at pains NOT to do cripple a beaten Germany after its WW2 attrocities. Further the ultimate American aim to strip Russia of all world power and influence was unveiled with Washington “investigating the prospects” of expelling Russia as one of the five permanent Security Council members, Deputy Secretary of State Wendy Sherman told US lawmakers on Wednesday. After 2 years of an effective police state… Read more »
Great piece.
Germany has a long way to go to see a Military renaissance. UVDL was responsible for devastating, demoralising and “Woking” the Bundeswehr even banning its ( non Nazi) military songs, while its soldiers bought their own boots and practised with broom sticks for want of guns.
This dreadful woman – she tells us she is “A citizen of the world” ( ie nowhere) is not well liked in Germany – only her ally Merkel succeeded in shoeing her into her current role – where we can only hope she will make a total mess -as she did with the German Army! Her husband is of course a Pharma Millionaire, ( No conflicts of interest of course.).
Germany has a long way to go to see a Military renaissance. Many things seemed like conspiracy BS only 2 or 3 years ago have all too quickly come to pass. Going back a little further Clegg denied an EU army in 2016 when the plan was already on the table; and this plan has been pushed forward in leaps and bounds since then. Further, Germany has apparently now committed to spending 2% of GDP on NATO, after years of procrastination. As an aside, a regiment of UK’s Royal Engineers have long been under German C&C in Europe. On Empress Ursula, I do hope you are right. However her strident address to the European Parliament, with the US puppet-pres Zelensky up on the big screen making his demands and the rows of happy clapping MEPs, was very worrying. The recent propensity for EU states to suspend what were thought inalienable human rights at the drop of a hat during the ‘pandemic’ – in particular making unvaxxed status a criminal offence (despite the vaxx still being experimental) – doesn’t suggest to me there’s too long a way to go before a de-facto Franco-German federation, with full military autonomy, takes the European… Read more »
This article puts things in perspective. It reminds me of the enduring quotes from General Smedley Butler from his book War is a Racket e.g.
“ “I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism.”
https://www.goodreads.com/work/quotes/191777-war-is-a-racket
Also see Tim Marshall’s books for a country-by-country analysis of global competition for resources: Prisoners of Geography (includes Ukraine) and The Power of Geography.
Tim Mashall’s book – OK, but a bit basic and partly sidelined by recent events- especially in the USA and China – no to even mention the WEF agenda.
With the consequences of the unprecedented ‘take-down’ of an elected US President and the Chinese engineered “scamdemic”,we are now pawns in a very different Great Global Game!
Globalist stake-holder Capitlalism, Banksterism and Gangsterism are, it seems, now synonymous
Good to see that Toby and the DS team are encouraging a plurality of views on their site. Unlike the evil corporate media.
I agree 100% with this article.
The current ratcheting up of tension resonates to me of the histories of 1914. The adults in the west have left the room.
Non western media seems to have a very different take on this whole thing too from the Pentagon inspired western media. None of that gets reported by the BBC, of course.
I don’t agree with much of this article but I was pleased to read it, nonetheless. It looks like the DS is the only source of information and opinion that challenges the narrative, which is to be welcomed even if, on this issue, I don’t agree with the counter narrative.
Why does everything have to have a “narrative.” Why can’t things just be?
Narratives is about the feelze, the emotions, assertions, going with the herd, bring in the moment – requires no knowledge, facts, cogent, intelligent thought or critical analysis.
No, ‘narratives’ are simply constructed by politicians to serve their immediate ‘short term’ purpose based on selection, lies, deliberate misrepresentation and spin to sustain the argument.
Listen to Jen Psaki (Biden’s mouthpiece) for perfect example!
Spin and propaganda need “narratives” to achieve the intended deception .”Narratives” are a form of deception and structured lying.
Before one can form an opinion one needs all the facts.
Facts have been sadly missing.
And still remain so.
I agree that once sceptical it is hard to go back! Whatever the rights and wrongs, and I think the article highlights a lots of food for thought…we are exactly in the same world as the Covid Narrative.
RT has now disappeared from all the platforms and Sky (I think Odysee said they would keep it??) so I’m not allowed to listen to an alternative source of information…I’m being told not only what to think but HOW to think….seems par for the course…..closing down bank accounts, ditto….stopping any dissemination of information on Twitter, Facebook etc…ditto All the MSM touting the same narrative…check!
And the egregious Jeremy Vine even saying Russian Soldiers deserve to die, on mainstream television! (Just like the dirty unvaxxed….)
The focus may have changed but the game hasn’t.
Yes, RT is still on Odysee.
https://odysee.com/@RT:fd
Well, I folllowed the link and looked at some RT stories (yes, I know – I’ll go and put my eyes out, from shame).
They’re quite right to ban it. The people on it looked like human beings, and obviously they’re not.
Should I have added “sarc”?
The French turned off their satellite used by themselves and RT UK.
“Sovereign Brexit Britain” was apparently dependent on it! Of course, Johnson can now deny responsibility in his usual fashion!
Great article. I enjoyed reading it. Thank you Lynne, you’ll do for me.
Good article. Now that our heating bills are hitting the roof because of this crisis we are told, where are the middle east supplies now? In the past they’ve always been blamed.
I remember in ancient times, 2020, when the oil price crashed – those savings were not passed on to consumers. As soon as they go up – increases across the show at the pumps, the direct debit, the fares on public transport etc.
Another one-way ratchet.
Hear, hear!
Toby is, sadly, amongst a great mass of normally sceptical commentators (such as Alison Pearson of the Telegraph) who seem to have lost the ability to apply the thinking process to the Ukrainian issue. It is hard to understand why this is so, but, perhaps, it reflects the sort of dinner parties attended by these rather weak-minded ‘sceptics’?
Well said!
The cabal controlling the West care about one thing only – power and money.
When it comes to Russia, their sole objective is to depose Putin then Balkanise Russia to make it militarily impotent so they can more easily steal its energy and mineral assets.
Its what they do.
Thats two only things they care about and four sole objectives right there. Don’t want to give them too much to work on at once! The might distract us and succeed /s
Power and money are the same thing. Their sole objective is to commandeer all the worlds assets. To do that in Russia they must depose Putin, and then Balkanise the Russian Federation to make it militarily impotent. Happy now?
Spot on !
As we have been lied to for over 2 years now, my BS detector is now hyper sensitive and quit honesty I don’t believe anything the MSM spew out. From just looking at the headlines in papers (I cannot be bothered to read them) the Russian army is being defeated by the rag tag Ukrainian militia whilst the Russians are advancing and taking cities. Or is my BS detector too sensitive.
Of course my views may be clouded by the fact the the EU and NATO have interfered in Russian areas of influence where they shouldn’t of interfered. To the majority of the people it has to be black or white, no grey is allowed to interfere with their simplistic overviews of situations. (Personally I look at what’s gone on before to try and understand what bad blood there is. In WW2 Ukrainians fought for the Germans so they could fight the Russians).
“…no grey is allowed…”
Are there not fifty shades of grey?
Yes but grey isn’t allowed.
Good points. I think that history has a lot to inform us about many aspects of Russian thinking, especially about the fear of “encirclement”, influence and possession of territories. The invasion by Napoleon and the Great Game of the 19th Century have lessons. As for the events of the 20th century, it would be hard for anyone to fail to discern the colossal effects on the Russian psyche.
Whilst the French and Germans “kissed and made up” after the last war, it is not so with the Russians and Germany, and, were I Russian, I would be very dubious about organisations such as the EU and NATO which contain ancient enemies, and which seem determined on a policy of positioning themselves on Russia’s borders. The mirror of this may be detected in the emotions of the Baltic states towards Russia on their borders.