How Should Sceptics Respond to Russia’s Invasion of Ukraine?
In the past 72 hours I’ve experienced the unusual sensation of feeling more in step with the mainstream media than I have with my sceptical friends. I regard Russia’s invasion of Ukraine as something that’s straightforwardly wrong and which all right-thinking people should unequivocally condemn, whereas many of the people I’ve been in the lockdown trenches with over the past two years feel more ambivalent about the conflict. (See Russell Brand’s latest video for an example of what I’m talking about.)
In what follows, I’ll try to summarise the doubts these sceptics have raised about the West’s response to the invasion, and the way that’s been presented in the MSM, and do my best to respond to those doubts.
Over the past two years, the MSM has revealed itself to be fundamentally untrustworthy in its coverage of the pandemic. Why should we trust its coverage of the war in Ukraine?
I’m not relying on the MSM’s coverage for my understanding of the conflict, but, for the most part, ordinary Ukrainians and Ukrainian reporters on the ground, such as those included in the Twitter list compiled by Gavin Sheridan and the list put together by Giles Udy. But even if I was relying on the BBC and CNN, what is it the sceptics think is misleading about the MSM’s reporting? Do they think Russia hasn’t really invaded Ukraine? Or that the MSM isn’t giving enough credence to Putin’s pretext for invading, namely, that Russia was acting as a “peacekeeper” to prevent the newly-independent breakaway republics of Luhansk and Donetsk being attacked by the Ukrainian Army? It strikes me as odd that people who’ve learnt to be sceptical about the claims various governments have made about COVID-19 over the last two years should suddenly be inclined to take Putin’s manufactured casus belli at face value.
Putin has been provoked by NATO’s expansion eastwards since the fall of the collapse of the Soviet Union, pushing Russia further and further into a corner and leaving it with no choice but to invade Ukraine to prevent it joining NATO.
This is essentially the argument of Stop the War Coalition – an astroturf organisation created by the Socialist Workers’ Party – and its useful idiots in the Labour Party and the National Education Union. It’s rooted in the hard left’s long-standing opposition to Western imperialism and its associated blindspot when it comes to the imperial ambitions of China, the Soviet Union and now Russia – hence Stop the War’s noisy opposition to David Cameron’s proposal to join the U.S. in bombing regime targets in Syria but conspicuous silence about Russia’s bombing on behalf of the Syrian regime. Or maybe it’s not a blindspot, more a case of ‘my enemy’s enemy is my friend’. Whatever its roots, it’s not a serious argument. The Western allies didn’t invade Hungary, Poland and the Czech Republic in 1997 and force their leaders to join NATO at gunpoint; rather, those newly independent states asked to join because they were concerned about the imperialist ambitions of the former Soviet Union. Ditto the admission of the former Soviet republics Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia in 2004 (and Croatia and Albania in 2009). And in case you think their fears of a resurgent Russia bent on territorial expansion were completely misplaced, Russia invaded Chechnya in 1994, again in 1999, attacked Georgia in 2008, annexed Crimea in 2014 and invaded Ukraine last week. Casting these military actions as essentially ‘defensive’, designed to prevent Russia’s encirclement by NATO, is to take Putin and Stop the War’s anti-Western propaganda far more seriously than you should. (For a distillation of the NATO argument, see this piece by Tim Black in Spiked.)
It’s naive to think that Putin and Lakushenko are the baddies and the leaders of the liberal democracies who have condemned Putin, imposed sanctions and are now belatedly supplying the Ukrainians with arms are the goodies. The two sides in this conflict are morally equivalent.
This is a variation of the previous argument – and it’s difficult to take seriously since those making it never protest about Russia’s involvement in armed conflicts and always object to NATO’s. It reminds me of my left-wing contemporaries at Oxford in the mid-80s who argued that the USA and the USSR were morally indistinguishable. If you can’t get a cigarette paper between them on moral grounds, why not protest about the military adventures of both? But those left-wing students only ever protested about America’s ‘imperialism’, not the Soviet Union’s. Okay, maybe that’s an example of ‘whataboutery’ (see below). How about this? Even though the countries that make up the creaking Western alliance have failed to live up to their professed values, particularly in the past two years, those values – democratic elections, the rule of law, a free press, religious tolerance, individual rights, protection of minorities, etc. – are infinitely superior to those of Putin and Lakushenko. What do Putin and his one ally stand for? Abusing the democratic process, imprisoning opposition leaders, shutting down independent newspapers and news websites, rewarding their loyal followers with assets stolen from their people, the persecution of gays and other minorities? At least the apologists for the Soviet Union could point to the underlying egalitarian philosophy which, even if it was never realised and simply used as an excuse to murder tens of millions of people, was rooted in a moral vision. Modern Russia is a kleptocracy run by a former KGB officer. Morally equivalent to Britain and America? Only if your moral compass is broken.
What about Iraq? Why was the West’s attempt at regime change acceptable in 2003, while Russia’s isn’t?
Well, not everyone who is outraged by Putin’s invasion of Ukraine supported the Iraq War and even those that did probably now accept that trying to impose a legitimate democratic government by force was a bad idea. I supported that war because I thought the argument for overthrowing Saddam Hussein was compelling: he was a murderous dictator who’d committed genocide against his own people. Okay, he didn’t have weapons of mass destruction, but he was still a baddy. Putin’s argument that Ukraine is run by a “band of drug addicts and neo-Nazis”, by contrast, isn’t very persuasive. Volodymyr Zelenskyy is a democratically elected leader who enjoys the support of a majority of Ukrainians – particularly now he has proved such a capable war leader. He won a five-year term in 2019 and has pledged to serve just one term. Saddam Hussein he isn’t.
Why the concern for the people of Ukraine but not Yemen/Palestine/Afghanistan? Is it because we value white European lives higher than the lives of brown people?
This is an example of ‘whataboutery’ which, in the words of Wikipedia, “is a variant of the tu quoque logical fallacy, which attempts to discredit an opponent’s position by charging hypocrisy without directly refuting or disproving the argument”. Perhaps those of us who care about the plight of the Ukrainian people should care as much about the plight of other victims of military aggression. But even if we don’t, that doesn’t mean we’re wrong to object to Putin’s invasion.
Isn’t it all about energy? The U.S. is concerned about Nord Stream 2 opening, thereby increasing Russia’s strategic influence in the region and, by extension, diminishing America’s. That’s why it has provoked this attack.
I’m the first to point out that Western European countries should never have embarked on a process of decarbonisation. I think Germany’s decision to wind down its nuclear power industry was insane and Boris’s Net Zero policy is completely bonkers – and would like nothing more than for the U.K. to start fracking on an industrial scale tomorrow, not least because it would avoid us becoming dependent on Russian gas exports as our own supplies in the North Sea (and Norway’s) dwindle. But I don’t think the U.S. would conspire to undermine the security of the U.K. if it became energy self-sufficient and I don’t think it’s manufactured this war because it’s worried about Russia’s gas deposits. This is a variation of the ‘It’s all about oil’ critique of the Iraq War. (For a comprehensive rebuttal of that armchair analysis, see this piece by Tal Tyagi in Quillette.) No one provoked this attack – Putin wasn’t provoked. NATO isn’t hell bent on encircling Russia (see above) and Putin’s claim that he wanted to defend Russian separatists in Ukraine who were at the mercy of neo-Nazis is complete balls. If Nord Stream 2 is now at risk of not opening, it’s because Putin started an unprovoked war of aggression in the region. If the Russian economy implodes after this reckless military adventure, Putin only has himself to blame.
Isn’t it all about digital currency? Russia is an obstacle to the roll out of central bank digital currencies (CBDC) and the creation of a biosecurity New World Order.
I’m inventing this one in anticipation of what James Delingpole is likely to say in our next podcast. A variation of it is that Russia is being punished because Putin is a spanner in the works of the Great Reset. But how, exactly? Russia imposed a lockdown, rolled out its own Covid vaccine and Putin attended Davos in 2021. And while the war may accelerate the introduction of a CBDC in Russia, that’s because it will make it harder for American and European central bankers to control him, not easier. Which is one of the flaws in this limb of the Great Reset conspiracy theory. Central bank digital currencies may may it easier for governments to control their populations via social credit systems or whatever, but they will make it harder for those governments to be controlled by Klaus Schwab and his cronies on the WEF. But setting aside the fact that the Great Reset is a paranoid fever dream, the fundamental problem with this argument is that it appeals to the principle of individual freedom – which is the reason for objecting to the Great Reset in the first place – to justify overlooking the military conquest of one country by another. It’s as though the clandestine erosion of liberty via digital wizardry is somehow worse than a direct assault on liberty, the old-fashioned way – at the barrel of a gun. The way I see it, if you’re a believer in individual freedom, you should object to any and all attempts to undermine it, whether digital or analogue.
The conflict has been manufactured to deflect the world’s attention from what’s happening in Canada.
Too brain dead to bother responding to? You’d hope so, but here goes. First of all, the stand-off in Canada between Justin Trudeau and the truckers is basically over and the truckers won. Trudeau has revoked the emergency powers he granted himself to deal with the protest and the Government of Ontario, Canada’s most populous province, has announced it will scrap vaccine passports on March 1st, and end all capacity limits on restaurants, bars, gyms and other indoor venues. Quebec, Saskatchewan and Alberta have announced similar ends to vaccine passports and other provinces, such as New Brunswick and British Columbia, are easing restrictions. Okay, you still need to show proof of vaccination at the U.S.-Canadian border, but for how much longer? The Covidians are in retreat across Canada, thanks in large part to the Freedom Convoy. Second, how is Trudeau’s grandstanding about Putin helping him, exactly? All it does is underline just what a steaming hypocrite he is. And thirdly, no one has manufactured this conflict apart from Putin and, believe me, he hasn’t done it to ease the political pressure on the Canadian Prime Minister.
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No doubt there are many more points I’m overlooking – and if anyone feels like writing an article fleshing out the case for remaining neutral in this conflict, feel free to send it in. If it’s good enough I’ll publish it, but it will have to be pretty persuasive because when a strongman leader uses his country’s superior military force to subjugate an independent sovereign state to his will my natural inclination is to side with the underdog.
I know many people have been red-pilled by the behaviour of our Government over the past 24 months and the abject failure of the MSM to hold our leaders to account. But just because they’ve been wrong about almost everything in the recent past doesn’t mean they’re wrong about Putin. It’s worth remembering that in the fairytale the boy who cried wolf was only mistaken up until the moment he was right – and the townspeople suffered because they were too sceptical. They should have believed him. Sometimes, when the Government and the MSM cry wolf, they’re right.
Vladimir Putin really is a wolf.
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There was I thinking that scepticism was at the heart of good journalism.
Indeed, we should all remain sceptical, especially of western posturing and journalistic hysteria, you only have to read this sobering analysis to understand whats really going on: https://asiatimes.com/2022/02/get-out-of-the-ukraine-mess-and-avoid-nuclear-war/
A fine article. Thanks.
I’ve read too many fear mongering write-ups based on Because we don’t know, it certainly could … to not spot them immediately and I’m not young enough to fall for this one. Cold-war peace relied on the so-called MAD for mutual assured destruction, ie, whoever uses strategical nuclear weapons first dies second. Nothing has changed in this area. Hence, that’s still the You lost by committing very seriously extended suicide option. Nothing to win here.
Looseley paraphrasing Heinlein: War is not out-of-control violence to accomplish maximum possible destruction – that’s a bogeyman story to frighten juvenile climate activists – but controlled violence to achieve an objective. The objective here seems to be to turn Ukraine back into Russian satellite state and possibly, Russian annexion of some provinces. That’s something the Russian government can accomplish by winning a conventional war in Ukraine and cannot accomplish by starting a global nuclear war. The only outcome of that would be that they’d be significantly worse off then when they had never invaded.
And the West can’t stop Russia because its armies are away on diversity training course and learning to come to terms with White Privilege. UK doesn’t have an effective modern tank because the priority was not its fighting capabilities, but reducing its CO2 emissions. These days battles are won by armies with the lowest carbon footprint.
And yet we are being primed for tactical (theatre) nuclear war as if it won’t effect western Europe.. One nuclear bomb and we are all gone, or at least, an excuse for the side effects of the vaccine.
Rubbish article that could have been written by Putin himself and which proves TY correct.
and science as well
Well, first off, they should give Russell Brand a puck in the snot.
Yes I personally sent him plenty of very strong evidence unveiling the Convid scam but he maintained his on the fence position thus encouraging his audience to get jabbed, certainly not warnign them against it. He may have changed course since, but the reality is that him and his ilk could have saved lives by telling peopel to resist and wait as there was zero risk even according to official sources. He is just another shill and should not be trusted.
I’ve only recently watched some of Brand’s YT videos (linked from Dr John Campbell’s channel) so I can’t comment on his previous stance(s) on covid.
It’s always struck me that if you wanted to keep your YT channel open, you’d better be aware of the prevailing sentiment and not get too out of step.
Thus, I find that Campbell’s stuff is interesting, but he’s always careful to stress that he’s analysing and quoting from others’ scientific papers or government data sources (and he seems 100% gung-ho on covid vaxxes).
Similarly, in Brand’s video yesterday, his rant about ‘disinformation’ (as promulgated by governments and MSM) seemed to be an excursion beyond what he had felt able to do previously.
He cannot give an opinion on vaccines because he’s not qualified, and because YouTube would shut down his channel. He may or may not agree in private, but YT deletes anything it considers to be “misinformation,” aka scientific evidence.
He cannot tell people not to get vaccinated, as that would most definitely result in that video being removed, and he’s made it clear that he holds no opinion one way or another. That does not equate to encouraging people to get vaccinated.
From what I’ve seen, he’s presented some good, alternative information on a raft of subjects.like
He’s clearly upset all the right people, as he’s now classified as “far right.”
I’ve been overwhelmed with downvotes!
Fu*k me.
The douche bag Brand is loved on here!
Neither a downvoter nor a noticer of downvotes be.
Solid advice, but not liked by your downvoter. (Not that you’d have noticed.)
I loathe the preening prat. The downvote is for advocating a violence based solution, even tongue in cheek. If we normalise violence against people with whom we disagree, or that we simply dislike, then we’ll have little cause for complaint against “Punch an antivaxxer” sentiments.
I upvoted Fireweasel. I am obviously consumed by war fever.
Me too because FW invariably talks sense.
Yes, I know I’ll be called a creep.
Screaming clinical narcissist. Pay him and his like no heed.
The downvotes are because I jokingly (sarcastically) advocated violence against Brand! David Starkey summed up the West’s problem succinctly on Mark Steyn’s GB news show the other day. To paraphrase Starkey in relation to the West’s ability to counter Putin’s transgressions in Ukraine: “They’ll be lots of them in front of Russian embassies waving posters and whinging ‘Give peace a chance’. Wokeness and stupidity begs the chicken and egg question. Which came first, was it wokeness or was it stupidity? I suspect it was stupidity, and that wokeness simply gave them a podium from which they could put it on shameless public display. I’m beginning to realise that here on the Daily Sceptic there are a lot of progressives that have been driven away from their former ideology by the plandemic and gene therapies. But due to cognitive dissonance, or whatever other psychological ills, they can’t get their heads around the normality that regular people live in – such as a “puck in the snot” which can only be taken as being said in jest, and which can only be found offensive by those eternally looking for something to be offended at. HERE’S 10 WAYS THE TWITS CAN STOP BEING… Read more »
Seems that you were offended by the downvotes, fren. If not, you chose a particularly verbose and salty way to suggest otherwise.
I’ll tell you a story: In 2021 a lady approached a queue of people outside a temporary gene therapy unit. They were lining up to be “vaccinated”. This lady asked people in this queue if they were aware the “vaccines” were causing quite serious adverse effects and deaths. These people had made up their minds to be “vaccinated” and the lady that attempted to interact with them was attempting to see they had received the necessary information in order to actually have given their informed consent. This lady was civil and polite in the way she approached and spoke to these “vaccine” queuers. The “vaccine” queuers got annoyed with this educated and learned lady, they turned away from her, they ignored her and would not respond to her. Without doubt, the reason that at least some of these “vaccine” queuers got annoyed and ignored the lady was because they were scared that members of the crew that was injecting the gene therapies might see them speaking with an antivaxxer. Basically, they were subservient sheep that were ready to kiss authority’s butt and lash out at anyone that evidentially suggested this same authority may be going… Read more »
https://ourdecisiontoo.com//Issue/there-s-nothing-left-to-do-but-go-our-separate-ways/320/
Well said- we are indeed surrounded by sheep. During the clap for NHS Thursdays, there were a couple of local ‘organizers’ who would march up and down the street banging saucepans loudly and looking to see who was and was not clapping. It simply never occurred to them that it wasn’t compulsory. Sadly, these people were missing during the VE Day celebration and again on Remembrance Sunday.
Same near me. The local FB groups had several posts praising XXX street / road etc because many of the residents were out caterwauling but then admonished other roads who were quieter and not seen as protecting the NHS as they should!
Inevitably, there would the infamous post about all non-believers and those not showing support should be made to work on a covid ward without PPE blah blah blah…boring, boring, boring.
Vomit inducing tripe which was eagerly sucked up by the convid army.
Meanwhile, all the local shop workers, posties, bus drivers, etc. were all already working in close contact with people without PPE, (all still strangely alive too), but getting no thanks or applause. I suppose these plebs should have been grateful that their betters were showing them the way…
I’m inclined to think that the message was only ‘clear’ if you had been calibrated to accept the ‘Last Hope’ signal (2.4GHz) from FearPorn Central.
So blinded by the left/right dialectic are you, that you attribute your down votes to the mindset of the left/democrats. Forgetting, that crack squads of Delingpole followers (having menaced these pages since inception) will often strike, from out of nowhere, with a flurry of dv’s (just cos you sound like a wrong un…) before melting back into the non-partisan forests of conspiracy.
There is a parallel in Muslims moving to non-Muslim countries and then supporting, at the extreme, Sharia law in the new country.
…
I’m not one of your downvoters, and I’ve previously considered Brand to be a loud mouthed pillock to whom I would never give oxygen. However, having read reports that he has been an independent thinker regarding Covid and personal freedoms (and I suppose he would support personal freedom, as we generally do here), I watched a recent offering. I found him a rather more grown up individual than previously. Long may it last.
I presume from Toby’s recommendation he’s strayed on the Putin front. I’ll take Toby’s word for it because our Russell is a somewhat exhausting presenter of his ideas. I think your descriptive phrase was somewhat OTT which might account for the downvotes. Feel free to downvote my opinion if you wish.
It’s absolutely wonderful to meet people like you every now and then.
+1
Not by me.
Not by me he isn’t- just another overpaid luvvie.
There, there, Fireweasel, I’ve given you a like. But seriously, first lesson in being a sceptic – grow a thick skin. Like Toby.
‘There is a very interesting 2019 video of an interview in Costa Rica in which Klaus Schwab lists Tony Blair, Angela Merkel, and Vladimir Putin as former World Economic Forum “Young Global Leaders”.’
https://anti-empire.com/why-does-klaus-schwab-think-that-vladimir-putin-was-a-wef-young-global-leader/
And Brendon O Connell has done ALL the hard work for you unveiling how the Kissinger Klan are running the show from behind the scenes, working for the banksters, City of London and East India Trading Company aka Rothschild crime and banking, installing and maintaining puppets all over the world and FUNDING ALL SIDES of the narratives we are fed. Very important to understand this. His work is paramount, if you want to understand the bigger picture. Brendon has been way ahead of the pack for a long time and remains so.
Tucker Carlson and Know Your Russian Oligarch
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSG6_Jkn-k4
Yes, but, ah, but, that doesn’t really mean anything. The Davos crowd only meet once a year, and those Young Leader programmes are probably just a talking shop for people with no influence. Like the political leaders of entire countries. Isn’t that right??? (sarc)
Wars are basically pissing contests between the elite and powerful of countries. The cost and the suffering is borne by the plebs.
So as far as I’m concerned the victims of this war are ordinary Ukrainians, Russians who are instructed to invade Ukraine, ordinary Russians who will suffer the consequences of sanctions.
From a geopolitical perspective I couldn’t really care less. I used to be more attached to western ideals, but they’ve been destroyed over the last couple of decades, with the relentless encroachment of the state in our lives.
Basically, whichever state or group of states wins out in this conflict will use any additional power gained against me and my freedom,
Agreed, I’d rather my own government took it’s hand out of my pocket, stopped telling me what I’m supposed to put in my body, how I’m allowed to heat my home and which genders are allowed. As it is I’m in a constant fight to save enough money to gtfo before they destroy it’s value or tax it all away.
The global reality imo is that freedom is best served by a Russian victory in the current dispute, since this is a case of a weaker power resisting encroachment by the globally dominant superpower and its attendant grouping.
The worst case scenario imo has always been global government – de facto or de jure: the infamous boot stamping on the human face forever, with no escape, no “outside”, nowhere to give a refuge or an example of how things could be done differently.
Russia is a least partially outside the US sphere, and resists it in many key aspects, not least the culture war aspects highlighted for instance by our MI6 chief a couple of days ago.
The only other real rival power centre is that based in the other superpower, China. That at least represents resistance to the world state, but is in most aspects even worse than the US sphere. Nevertheless, that’s better than unified global power.
I wish India would grow a bit vs China.
A federal democracy, operating under English common law … what’s not to like?
Stability often seems to come from a balance of power. One superpower is a problem.
“Stability often seems to come from a balance of power.”
Indeed. Though such stability is necessarily dynamic. The alternative, though, is the stability of stagnation.
“One superpower is a problem.”
See Mearsheimer’s comments about the problems created by the US’s “unipolar moment”, after the fall of the Soviet Union and before China rose to become a peer competitor.
India is very seriously infected by Gates, with Indian support. Currently a war is being waged against their farmers. Extremely nasty. Theft of the commons.
The global reality imo is that freedom is best served by a Russian victory in the current dispute… I think this point is unarguable, especially with reference to key policy of appeasing and encouraging fascism in the West over the last 100 years – and recently the blind eyes that have been turned to post-Maidan era Ukraine. I would go further in stating that if Russia fails to prevail in this dispute, the EU 4th Reich (with the backing of the USA, WEF and the western banking/corporate cartel) will be free to rise to a position of complete dominance. The bought-and-sold UK, as we see from the idiotic comments of Liz Truss, is already well on board with arming fascists and sacrificing Brit lives by encouraging UK nationals to become bloody mercenaries with one of the various fascist militias tear-assing around Ukraine (officially illegally, but encouraged by Zelensky and his henchmen) killing Russian speakers and torching houses. On a larger scale, the ensuing Nazi-EU hegemony on the European continent will mean it is inevitable that the UK is at some point re-integrated. And it is at that point you can kiss the fast vanishing myth of free speech and scepticism… Read more »
Another idiotic comment supporting far left military aggression.
Rubbish. All of it.
All of what?
https://ourdecisiontoo.com//Issue/there-s-nothing-left-to-do-but-go-our-separate-ways/320/
I’d love to know why anyone downvoted this and why- seems perfectly inoffensive to me.
I shouldn’t have thought there are many people, including among the sceptics, who think invasion of a country, bombing, tanks, deaths, people fleeing is something that is just or right. There is a difference between saying how different is this from what the West, the US in particular, has done many times before and saying you agree with it or approve it. I think above all that most people are thinking that we do not want to get involved, it is a conflict we do not need to be engaged in, no matter how much we may sympathise with the normal citizens stuck in the middle of this. More refugees in a Europe filled to the brim with refugees we already cannot place. All Western countries are in poor shape after 2 years of mismanaged ‘pandemic’. There is little by way of military strength, the US military has no doubt been harmed under Democrate mandates on diversity and vaxxing. The propaganda I’ve seen is quite astonishing – social media filled with blue/yellow flags, football matches paying tribute, article after article about the bravery of Ukraine’s president, its brave fighters, how much we care and love them – 2 weeks ago… Read more »
And two weeks ago, if you’d said “How angry are you about Russia’s 2014 invasion and occupation of Crimea?” you’d have received shrugs.
By and large, people are angry about what everybody tells them to be angry about, and clap like seals for… well, we all know how that goes.
You are right.
Also the coordinated lighting up of famous landmarks in the colours of the Ukrainian flag!
A much more balanced articulation of thoughts than the article above. I feel the same. Genuinely concerned that this globalist party game will kill many innocent people, and lead to all manner of secondary pain points for us all. However, we are lied to on a daily basis. Trying to weed through the propaganda is incredibly difficult and so I’m in a wait and see mode. The same way I dealt with Covid.
I’m aware I have that luxury however.
I must be a fool because I don’t even know what you mean when you say a person is a wolf.
In capitalism peace is only preparation for war. War is the health of the state.
I’m not so sure about this narrative any longer.
https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/steyn-and-starkey-on-the-wests-world-of-illusion/
This was a fascinating and insightful discussion. Starkey pretty much lays out how the West has shrunken it’s spending on Defence to the point we can no longer defend ourselves, Western leaders now see themselves more like custodians of the planet and wokery. Doesn’t sound like warmongering capitalism to me.
Absolutely.
The real war is the state and its establishment against ordinary people, the establishment relentlessly telling us what to do and how to live and the people either complying or being bullied, coerced, shamed until they do.
When the Russia- Ukraine conflict is over, I know all I have to look forward to is the establishment refocusing its attention on how to control me and get me to do what it wants.
Yes, here in the West large indignation about a state telling citizens (both its own Russian citizens and other, Ukranian citizens) what to do and curtailing their rights – while the hypocrites are continuing to steamroller over ours as they have been doing for the past 2 years (well, past 10 – 20 years, the last 2 years showed them just how blatant and draconian they can be and get away with it).
Not too surprised about Steyn, who iirc was a dupe for the neocons on previous occasions, such as the Iraq War, but disappointing to see Starkey going for this kind of silliness. Here are the current military spending numbers: The United States ($778 billion) China ($252 billion [estimated]) India ($72.9 billion) Russia ($61.7 billion) United Kingdom ($59.2 billion) Saudi Arabia ($57.5 billion [estimated]) Germany ($52.8 billion) France ($52.7 billion) Japan ($49.1 billion) South Korea ($45.7 billion) There are many quibbles you can make with such numbers, but the basic reality is laid out clearly there. Militarily there are only two significant powers, and Russia is not one of them. It’s a capable great power, but not a superpower. Its main source of relative military strength is its nuclear capabilities, but those are of limited use in practical military applications, and mainly serve as deterrent. In reality, China’s numbers understate its strength, but it is still far, far behind the US in terms of global military force projection capability, because military power is a lag indicator and China’s military strength will be catching up with its economic rise for decades to come. The hard reality is that Russia’s action in the Ukraine reflects its relative weakness as much… Read more »
The real issue for “the west” is its internal culture war problems -the desperate rearguard resistance against the anti-western woke left that has risen to dominance over the past few decades.
In second place is China – the only peer competitor for the US.
Russia is nowhere on the list, and in fact in a competently run US sphere would have been wooed as an ally against China, rather than driven into the latter’s arms.
Thank god for western incompetence then.
I would have once cheered for it. But since the west has abandoned the ideas of freedom it once defended, albeit imperfectly and somewhat cynically, I’m just not on the west’s side anymore. I can’t see a single country on the planet that is standing up properly for personal freedom so I’m not on anyone’s side.
Really interesting stats.
I hope Toby sees this post. It’s an example of what a sceptical response to the Russia – Ukraine conflict might look like, rather than the telling off he’s tried to give us all this morning.
I’m not sure if the figures are correct, whether the sources are reliable, but the approach is exactly what scepticism looks like: questioning underlying assumptions with key facts and ideas.
The source is SIPRI, per this site:
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/military-spending-by-country
In truth, books can be written (and have been) about how to assess military spending and its impact. This is just a grab at the broad numbers for the sake of the discussion, but it makes the point..
Interesting, thank you.
I hope Toby sees this post. It’s an example of what a sceptical response to the Russia – Ukraine conflict might look like, Toby isn’t a sceptic, so it doesn’t matter. He’s an opportunist journalist – like his mate Boris. And just as Boris only espoused the Brexit cause – after thinking about it overnight – so TY saw his chance by being the sensible dissenting (but pro-government) voice during lockdown. Besides, Putin himself laid out the massive disparity in military spending figures long before the operation started – and asked then why would Russia want war, as it stood no chance against the combined spending of NATO? For Russia, this is existential. Ukraine was overthrown in 2014 by a US backed coup, and its institutions (including the army) dominated by neo-Nazi ideology. Every year Russia put forward an anti-Nazi resolution at the UN, every year the USA votes against it and the EU abstains. As Putin admitted, he should have recognised the Donbass republics much earlier than he did (they were declared in 2014 to attempt to protect the Russian speakers from post coup fascist Ukraine state violence). The EU meanwhile morphs into the Nazi 4th Reich with sanctions… Read more »
I don’t know Mr Young, so I can neither agree nor disagree on your description of him.
Like many who think themselves sceptical, I seem to vary in strength from time to time and from issue to issue. Perhaps Toby Young is similarly human (and therefore erring)?
One man’s scepticism is another’s pig-headed refusal to accept “obvious truths” – it’s far easier to be sceptical about issues you aren’t committed to.
Like you accepting your “obvious truth” that Steyn is a neocon and Putin virtuous.
Know him by his words and actions.
I think a 40 km long convoy of Russian tanks could be driven through your litany of excuses for the current Russian despot with the keys to the Kremlin to invade another country to “protect” indigenous Russian speakers. What unadulterated rubbish; he could – if he has genuinely concerned as you delightfully view him through rose tinted spectacles – repatriate all his endangered Russian speaking populations – Russia has the space in case you haven’t clocked that, and then create within his borders a demilitarised zone – let’s say 100 km wide from the Batlic to the Black Sea with UN Security Council approval; any violation of that strip by marauding NATO offensive armed forces could then be justifiably met with similar Russian force. By your twisted logic, it is fine for the Russians to occupy a country on the pretext to prevent them going the EU/NATO and if successful, will then have their “border” extended right up against ……a member of NATO – will Putin then spout that because of the proximity of an evil NATO aggressor country, they have to take steps to preserve their territorial integrity? You are just another useful idiot for the Russian State mafia,… Read more »
Excellent.
Watch for the DVs.
On cue….long embedded useful idiots or just stupid, can’t quite make my mind up. I think it is a “Badge of Honour ” to the hoards of the Public Sector tax payer grazing very left of centre, to demonise the US; some of the criticism is valid for sure, but the unadulterated blame game for current events solely laid at the door of Langley and Washington DC is simply juvenile, lazy, and factually perforated. One thing that always strikes me is that these historically naive fools call out the “Americans”; setting aside, but not ignoring, the legitimate criticisms of the treatment of native populations and African slaves, do they not understand that the US population stems, greatly, from Scandinavia, Ireland, the UK, Germany and dare I mention …Russia. Is it just me that considers this a huge contradictory prejudice – invoking invective against the US and favouring that paragon of humanitarian assistance – have any of these fools stopped to consider the extent to which Russia has welcomed “foreigners” with open arms into Mother Russia…..or should I whisper “Pogroms” …..Red army culls…..Gulags. I reckon they have no idea, eg, who Alexander Solzhenitsyn is – perhaps they should read his polemical… Read more »
Rubbish.
His approach is to support Putin’s aggression.
add another 100 Bn euro to Germanys figure
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/27/germany-set-up-fund-boost-military-strength-ukraine-putin
This always fascinates me, how people have such wildly different takes, opinions on the same thing. Which is why we should all remain sceptical and do our own research. And as I am pretty ignorant on defense spending and military history, I really need to read up on this before I would be willing to come down firmly on either side.
Could you factor in this… https://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2020/01/23/Pentagon-s-35-Trillion-Accounting-Black-Hole?
Russia suffered horrendously from the invasions of the 20th century. Sensitivity about potentially hostile developments on its borders is surely understandable.
Preaching from countries which invaded Iraq because they didn’t like the government (lying about their reasons for doing so) doesn’t impress me.
The US invaded Iraq on the pretext of a horrific false flag against their own people, the neocons were so desperate to get their hands on Iraq’s oil wealth.
9/11 was done by the US deep state.
https://www.ae911truth.org/?s=01
What was that about deranged psychopaths, Toby Young?
Iraq did not impress me either, not one jot; Russians suffered just as horribly as a result of the actions of Lenin and Stalin or have you forgotten that?
USSR/RF are the serial instigators of hostile aggressions on other countries on the continent of Europe/Asia Minor since WWII: To consider them as “threatened” is a sick joke.
As soon as you denigrate Steyn you reveal your far left views and support for Putin.
Steyn’s knowledge of geopolitics is second to none.
The difference between US military spending and Russian military spending is simple. The US system is based on costs-plus development leading to production of over-expensive ineffective weapon systems. There is much more profit to be made if systems don’t work well. More are needed to do the job. For example, the Tomahawk cruise missile has about a 50% target hit rate, which hasn’t improved since its early use. This is seen as no problem in the US as it usually only faces essentially unarmed opponents. It won’t work so well with a peer or better opponent. The F-35 stealth aircraft is a fine example there. It is stealthy head on but not against multistatic radar systems. Guess who has that sort of setup. Russia’s spending is aimed at maximum bang-per-buck, as it doesn’t have the US privilege of having the reserve currency for energy trade. It also doesn’t have a global empire to keep under its thumb, and having been there only to be sucked dry by east European leaches, has no desire for one. This means it has no need for ferociously expensive blue water carrier fleets. Instead it has relatively cheap hypersonic missiles designed spefically to convert carriers… Read more »
I’m confident that is not likely to be wide of the mark.
I enjoyed, many years ago, a book that was given to me, titled ‘The Wit’s Dictionary’. The definition of ‘ignoramus’ was ‘someone who doesn’t know something that you learned yesterday’.
But it’s fine when we do it.
The dismemberment of Yugoslavia and the recognition of the created entity Kosovo; the invasion of Afghanistan; the war of aggression against Iraq leading to excess deaths of at least 500,000; the destruction of Libya, transforming the richest country in North Africa to an ISIS-ridden hellhole with real slave markets; the coup in Ukraine enabling hardcore neo-Nazis; unleashing ISIS on Syria; enabling the Saudi attempts to ethnically cleanse the Houthis in west Yemen; colour-coded regime change operations in Belarus (as Lukashenko wouldn’t take to covid scam bribe), Khazakstan, Armenia, and attempts in Russia.
“How Should Sceptics Respond to Russia’s Invasion of Ukraine?”
With research and facts as usual!
Sceptics are sceptical for a very good reason. We’ve been lied to for decades! It’s interesting to read some of the twitter threads from those that appeared to have been red-pilled over covid and vaccines, only to swallow the ‘Putin Bad’ narrative in its entirety, without any due diligence. Have they learnt nothing?! I had hoped that this covid debacle would be a turning point in the populace’s automatic acceptance of government narrative and spin. It would appear that just as quickly as covid has disappeared, so has healthy scepticism and critical thinking!
A bigger minority have turned that corner, but it is still a minority. The majority still turn to the BBC, ITV and the established papers to find out how and what to think.
While Toby has a direct line to the government press office to make sure he’s on message.
The only things I believe on the “news” are the sports scores. Too many people care and know for them to get it wrong on a regular basis.
They’re presenting morality plays. The medieval ones were more lively, entertaining and credible.
I went to a coffee shop today to get out of the house. There was a young couple sitting at the next table. Very bright from incidental overhead phrases – medical, military background, science, multiple languages. When they started talking about Ukraine I found it difficult not to laugh out loud. The man, concerned about possibly being called, started talking about Russian tactics for the use of artillery and the like, It was clear he envisaged a replay of World War II with massed tank battles over the plains of Europe. This reminds me of the Britsh generals in WWI thinking of cavalry, with an opponent armed with machine guns. He is (and presumbly his miltary contemporaries also) totally unaware of Russian military doctrine, publicly updated in the face of relentless NATO expansion east. i) If NATO enters Russia it will face nuclear response and ii) if attacked by any NATO country, all of NATO will be a target (clause 5 works both ways) – actually just the US and UK as the rest are poodles. For the UK, I imagine there will be massive cruise missile bombardments to take out or render inoperative Fylingdales, Goonhilly, all the USAF air… Read more »
Ukraine’s Deadly Gamble
By tying itself to a reckless and dangerous America, the Ukrainians made a blunder that client states will study for years to come
Excellent article. Please read in full.
https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/ukraines-deadly-gamble
My trouble is that I now believe the MSM and governments blatantly don’t tell the truth and seem to work together, even at a super-national level. The result is that I now doubt everything they say. If you google “Why is Ukraine the West’s Fault? Featuring John Mearsheimer” you will come across a 2015 political analysis of the Ukranian situation on youtube. This provides a prophetic analysis which predates current analysis and, to me, makes more sense. The saying that, “the truth can stand anyamount of analysis” holds true to me. Unfortunately, if the analysis and predictions were true, the West is probably pushing all the wrong buttons.
“My trouble is that I now believe the MSM and governments blatantly don’t tell the truth and seem to work together, even at a super-national level. “
Been happening for years. Do keep up 😉
Sceptical? With justification. Just about every ‘image’ run by the MSM or on social media about this conflict has been proven to be of somewhere other than Ukraine and in the past. There are no verifiable reports from ‘old hand’ journalists on the ground at the front line of engagements.
Loads of pictures/stories about citizens fleeing, loads of diagrams, loads of speculations, loads of simulations.
Its Europe, where was the anguish over Kazakhstan? Somehow it IS different if its MENA; Libya, Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan. Russia in Afghanistan, bad; NATO in Afghanistan, good.
I am no Putin apologist, but the hypocrisy of supporting the US bombing countries back to the stone age is indigestible this early in the morning.
There are evil people in charge of most nations, it goes with seeking power. And there are evil people pulling their strings to make themselves rich beyond belief. The ordinary guy/gal just suffers when this evil openly shows itself.
You sure did hit the nail on the head!
I know. If they need to keep using fake photos and fake videos, it’s because the reality on the ground does not match what we are being told. And, as with covid, they are lying in unison. They ALL have video game dogfights, they ALL have Miss Ukraine with an airsoft rifle…
you can get a wider view of what’s going on on reddit that the MSM e.g. https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/
Most of the Russian equipment is old scrap, most of the men are ill trained young conscripts. Some strategic stuff coing on with modern equipment and special forces, but it’s an exception rather thana rule so far.
A cynicwould be tempted to call it scripted. But it does look designed to be a drawn out affair rather than the definitive fast victory had it been planned to be such.
The last time the Russians took Kiev they deployed 730,000 troops – laying down 26 bridges in order to cross the Dnieper and encircle the city, with the additional assistance of 87 ferries. The fighting extended from the 3 November to 22 December, and cost 118,000 Soviet casualties. It was the Germans but even so, the psyops being used in the MSM that its a disaster for the Russians that its not over by now is clearly ridiculous. And yes I have also noticed what pictures there have been of Russian ‘tanks’ are not tanks but armoured troop carriers with a gun. And they don’t appear to wearing skirts which is very odd. And where are the support helicopters? Something is not adding up here.
Absolutely right. The coverage has been surreal – lots of “reports coming in of fighting…” and “missiles raining down” but very little by way of pictures. No background explosions, no rockets being fired, no exhausted and bloody troops trudging forwards or back – nothing at all like what we saw for the West’s numerous shock & awe missions (or the Russians in Chechnia or Syria for that matter).
When we do get report from Kiev – and it’s usually just from there or the border – we find it’s all “strangely quiet”, that these “brave people” are “bracing themselves”, but not much else. Of course something military is going on, but the extent to which it’s violent, indescriminate, disproportionate or anything simply cannot be judged from the coverage we’re getting.
War is smoke-screen for WEFetal’s take-over of whole World becoming Law within 8 weeks; each and every nation’s sovereignty to WHO i.e. WEFetal.
If a country’s ‘Health’ Minister does not write rejection letter to WHO, it will be Law by default.
For each and every type of ‘crisis’ WEFetal dream up, horrendously murderous ‘measures’ will be legally enforced by WEFetal.
Discussing their smoke-screen does exactly as intended: enable WEFetal to slip legislation to govern all under radar.
What on earth are you on about?
JayBee gave guidance on where to find info in their comment following article here a few days ago about repealing coronavirus act etc
I repeat my question.
Read @Bolloxed Britainnia’s post below, and catch up with the implications of the “INTERNATIONAL TREATY ON PANDEMIC PREVENTION AND Preparedness”.
You appear to have taken a suggestion about a talking-shop which might issue a report in a couple of years, and extrapolated and asserted firm conclusions and consequences which I can’t find mentioned anywhere.
I repeat my question.
I’m responding with a shrug. We have no Sukhoi in this dogfight, and I’m not willing to shed one drop of blood, nor spend one brass farthing of treasure to prevent Putin from securing his Western borders against NATO incursion.
From a sceptical point of view, I believe absolutely nothing that’s associated with Ukraine just now, even and especially from “authoritative sources”.
I’m far, far more interested in securing the borders of the UK than of Ukraine.
That’s it in a nutshell. I’m much more interested In the UK Prime Minister securing the sovereignty of Northern Ireland, which he gave away, securing the borders of the UK which is currently being overrun daily by illegal aliens, and improving UK fuel security which he also seems intent on giving away under the orders of his hysterically net zero wife.
A national food policy wouldn’t go amiss either.
Those downvoting, is it because: you’re already on the way to pick up an AK in Ukraine; you’ve spend significant sums of your own money on War Bonds; you do believe the propaganda from either side; or you don’t care about UK’s borders?
“I’m far, far more interested in securing the borders of the UK than of Ukraine.”
Unfortunately, for the people of these islands, Bozo doesn’t share your / our concerns.
ozo
Yet again, everyone is being played, usual script:
Brits should remind themselves of the Deagel forecast, before going to war with a country that can annihilate them at the press of a button.
DEAGEL Forecasts Massive Depopulation by 2025
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jY4Wahyo5n0
Deagel Makes Mysterious Changes To 2025 Population Forecast For America As Bill Gates Launches ‘Grand Challenge’: The ‘Holy Grail Of Influenza Research’ And ‘Bridging The Valley Of Death’
https://www.algora.com/Algora_blog/2020/04/10/deagel-makes-mysterious-changes-to-2025-population-forecast-for-america-as-bill-gates-launches-gran-d-challenge-the-holy-grail-of-influenza-research-and-b
I’ll read it more fully later but picking up on the last part about the boy, are you suggesting (with a straight face) that we believe someone who lies to us constantly to their own ends because one day they might tell the truth? Those people should be tarred and feathered and thrown out of such positions. Effectively in order to not miss a wolf you’d have to believe them every time, in such a world this website wouldn’t even exist.
I remain in great distrust of the Media and Governments after the past 2 plus years, ongoing for many of our fellow humans in Europe, Austrailia etc. The invasion of Ukraine is genuine, as I am sure the imminent invasion of Taiwan will also be. Whilst the Government with the complicity of Media and the sheeple have cosseted themselves in the belief that a bad cold was the most dangerous thing in the world, despots such as Putin and Xi built their respective war machines. They did not hide this from site, and in the case of China it has made it crystal clear that it believes Taiwan is part of China so none of what has happened should be a surprise. But look at our own sad, fig leaf of a defence force, starved of investment whilst Governments have invested in welfare, and in the past 2 years money wasted multi billions on test and trace, crap vaccines, masks etc. Meanwhile the ability for our country to protect and defend itself has been taken away by stealth. Our economy has been ruined, we have as much capability against an invader as throwing ice creams against a tank, our people… Read more »
I’m looking forward to seeing the MSM/western Leadership’s pretzel logic of explaining away China “partnering” itself (in the Biblical sense) with Taiwan as NOT BAD and at the same time PUTIN BAD….
Assad is NOT a tyrant.
He is the leader of his country fighting US backed terrorism.
The Syrian people invited Russia in to help their fight.
The US invaded East Syria and were NOT invited in.
Syria is another example of the US undermining Russian interests.
My point was meant to focus on the fact that a war in Syria was a main feature of every news bulletin and MSM, there were stories of the terrible things targetting of hospitals, innocents etc, etc, I agree that whenever the west has interfered in the middle east to try to instil its version of democracy (HA), its caused more trouble than if it had been left alone, Iraq, Libya to name two. But where in the past 2 years has this war in Syria gone? has it ended? Is Assad still there? who knows the media and the Government have dropped that particular “hot story” like a pan full of hot fat at the excitement of the great cold, now that looks to be going to Sh–e and someones ar-e is going to be in the bacon slicer they have conveniently switched to a new war and all the focus and fear porn is going into that. I wonder what is planned next? I predict a great economic crash our pensions will be wiped out and many of European banks will collapse bringing an all mighty end to the European project. Of course this will not be the… Read more »
And which tyrant might that be? There are plenty bordering (and non-bordering, including the usual suspects) countries intent on power grabs, territorial annexation and seizure of oil resources via invading armies (and proxy armies) to choose from. Surely you are not suggesting Assad? If so you really need to take another (careful) look.
NATO and Ukraine crossed Russia’s red line, stated way back in 2008 when NATO declared Ukraine and Georgia were to become members in the future. Maybe our ‘leaders’ thought Russia was bluffing? They certainly know they weren’t now!
I don’t approve of the invasion but I fully understand why it has happened. To label Putin a madman is just idiocy.
The US/CIA/NeoCons have been poking the bear since their 2014 coup in Ukraine. They are as equally culpable as the Ruskies.
Unfortunately it’s the Ukranians at the sharp end and trapped in the middle.
I didn’t read the full article btw Toby. I found it a bit too patronising and gave up half way through. Talking down to your readership is not a good look.
Ukraine crossed Russia’s red line?
I don’t like this argument at all.
Surely Ukraine has a right to join whichever organisation is likes, whether Russia likes it or not. That’s national sovereignty, after all.
What ordinary Ukrainians want vs what Ukrainian elites in power want is a whole other issue. But that is more the question than what Russia wants for Ukraine, which should be completely irrelevant.
If Russia regards Ukraine joining NATO as an existential threat then they will react in a way that they see as appropriate, they were NEVER going to just let this happen were they?
It’s a 21st century Cuban missile crisis which has been engineered by the US/NATO/NeoCons.
I don’t think the Russians had much of a choice really. Stay quiet and have NATO on your doorstep or make a move and try to force Ukraine to step back from NATO membership.
Neither option would have positive outcomes for them but one gave them options to try and change the landscape more in their favour.
Framing the issue in terms of “rights” (as though such a thing has real meaning in relation to states rather than people anyway) is inherently misleading. The issues of relevance are: Does it make any sense for NATO to continue to exist at all in the absence of the Soviet threat, and does its continued existence actually make the world better or worse, by how much and for whom? And, should any other countries ever be invited to join NATO, and do such invitations make the world safer or less safe, by how much and for whom? In truth, general scepticism about the benefits of colossal tax-funded state boondoggles inclined me (an unrepentant NATO supporter during the Cold War) to feel strongly that it should have been wound up, with parties and medals all round, in 1992, and that its continuance would merely be as a hostage to fortune. A bureaucracy desperately hunting for a justificatory mission. A corrupt waste of money and a collection of state sinecures. A dangerous, powerful tool lying around waiting for the worst types to pick it up and use it. I believe subsequent events have proven those fears on my part to have been… Read more »
he had a talking point given to him. Controlled opposition. About as subtle as a molotov cocktail.
His readership can see through this like a stained glass window. Which is why we frequent this site and provide such a wealth of analyses.
His handlers note this.
So, to his handlers – fuck off, we know. We can see your marionette strings now and we’ll never un-see them.
Toby Young : “Putin’s claim that he wanted to defend Russian separatists in Ukraine who were at the mercy of neo-Nazis is complete balls.”
Reality denial from Toby Young.
Hmmmm. I could reply to each of the points made in turn, but simply don’t have the time. Toby, thanks for your crucial support recently, but you appear to have misunderstood three key points here: Most sceptics aren’t pro-east or pro-west. They can see that there are two sides to the argument (e.g. 2014 coup, continued bombing of Donetsk for 8 years by Ukraine, NATO advancement etc), and can see only one side is being published by MSM. Again. That’s clear propaganda that you should be able to see without trying too hard. Did you, for instance, read Putin’s address to the people before his forces went into Ukraine? You probably didn’t as it couldn’t be found anywhere on MSM, but is was very insightful and food for thought – the reason why it couldn’t be found on MSM. Continuing from the first point, you seem very blasé about the Wests meddling in other countries and the conflicts which they have initiated in the name of regime change and the crippling damage that meddling has achieved. Your views here appear to be highly hypocritical. The Great Reset, whether you believe the theory or not, is a distinct possibility. One crisis… Read more »
The west’s moral high ground has been reduced to “yes, but they are even worse”.
And the last two years have shown us that if they can get away with it, most western leaders will implement the same totalitarian control and surveillance over the population that a country like China has developed.
So really, it’s “yes, but they’re even worse, at least for now.”
Toby Young pussyfoots around on “vaccines” because he knows he could easily be banned, sees people banned all around him, then complains about Russia abusing the democratic process. Very funny!
How “protected” from Covid are the vaccinated?
https://dailyexpose.uk/2022/03/01/russia-distraction-uk-gov-revealed-triple-vaccinated-account-9-in-10-covid-deaths/
TY should focus on this, and spare us his patronising remarks on Ukraine, an issue on which he is clueless.
Well written, Toby. Scepticism is not/should not be a philosophy but a desire to perceive the truth, recognising that it is not always easily found, not least because scepticism of one position is nearly always inspired by unquestioning faith in another.
I wish you could be less dismissive of anthropogenic climate change. I agree that Germany’s abnegation of nuclear power was insane, and now the chickens are coming home to roost.
I have strongly held views in support of both Russia and Ukraine, going back 50 years, but do not think of it a Sceptic/not Sceptic issue.
Disagreents over this can only lead to pointless arguments and divisions between us.
Talk about a useful idiot.
Almost 76 years ago to the very day (22 February 1946), George Kennan, the US Ambassador to the Soviet Union sent his famous Long Telegram from Moscow, which formed what became the Truman Doctrine, or, the American policy of containment of the Soviet Union, which guided the Americans for decades.
Fast forward to the 1990s, when the Soviet Union was defeated, Russia was on its knees, and NATO had decided it was a great time for expansion. Kennan felt compelled to speak up with an editorial piece in the New York Times (1997), in which he said “expanding Nato would be the most fateful error in American policy in the entire post-cold war era”. He foresaw that this “would inflame nationalistic, anti-western and militaristic tendencies in Russian opinion”, “have an adverse effect on the development of Russian democracy”, “restore the atmosphere of cold war to east-west relations”, and “impel Russian foreign policy in directions decidedly not to our liking”.
He was prophetic it seems and it’s a shame that no one listened to him. For years the US has been clumsily blundering into an entirely avoidable crisis and now, here we are.
It’s not a blunder. For all those reasons stated by Kennan, it is precisely the point. The splitting of the world back into a multipolar system from the US centred unipolar system IS THE GOAL.
Once that happens the “need” for global coordination accelerates. Then a Globalist Order is one step closer.
That’s a very valid point. And multi-polar order is also good for the war industry!
The US wants its rules-based order to continue, where it makes the rules and everyone else follows their orders.
Is this all just a big distraction? Another critical step being taken in the Great Reset?
Cyber attacks on banking/energy infrastructure, blamed on Russia. Great for anti-Putin sentiment among the sheep who won’t be able to access their own money to pay for over-priced fuel, groceries and power. Great justification for a consolidated, digital banking system run by the government etc. etc.
It certainly seems to be a useful tool in pushing the Green Bullshite further
That’s all very fine and large, but after the last two years I’m at the point where I just want to see the world burn.
Putin is exposing the moral and physical weakness of the west’s decadent descent into navel-gazing self-obsession and anything that puts a rocket (quite literally) up the arses of the febrile shits who make up the majority of “mood shapers” and decision makers in the west is good with me.
We all adore UK column, don’t we? Here’s their program from Friday that refutes most of Toby’s article with evidence and analysis…
https://www.ukcolumn.org/ukcolumn-news/uk-column-news-25th-february-2022
Also, evidence from a Russian supporting Ukrainian.
https://youtu.be/OisJkpGYpAo
A useful analogy to the current situation is as follows…
Imagine living in Italy, under the control of the local mafia when suddenly the Chinese triad gang invade your patch. Do you feel allegiance to the mafia because they are from your “side”, or do you take a balanced view?
Fridays UK Column should be required listening for Toby. But will he bother?
Doubt it very much.
Any discussion of Ukraine in 2022 that doesn’t include Ukraine in 2014 is pointless by default. The US and Eu instituted a coup against the legit government in 2014 and after that attacked – relentlessly – ethnic Russians.
Led by EU High Priestess Baroness Ashton, a sub par pen pusher who nobody ever voted for.
Indeed, where was Putin in 2014
I logged in to say it was disappointing not to have seen a sceptic take on this, but now I have read this puff piece you really shouldn’t have bothered. We know the MSM lie to us, they have lied to us over the past four days (cases in point – ghost of Kiev, snake island, Zelensky on the streets of Kiev in combat gear etc)
I don’t think anyone looking for more balanced reporting is saying Putin was right to invade. We are simply looking for something more nuanced than Russian bad/Ukrainian good.
What happened to ‘stay sceptical’?
The Global Cabal, extinguishing sceptics one fomented crisis at a time.
https://off-guardian.org/2022/02/25/whats-really-going-on-in-ukraine/
…and using a fairytale to argue that we should all start trusting the MSM again, after demonstrably losing all credibility over the last few years, is laughable.
It’s not just Ukrainian and Russian citizens that are/will be directly effected; further disruption to gas and oil supplies will continue to inflate Western domestic fuel bills, disrupt financial markets and pension funds, and increase food prices.
Yes, Putin is a wolf, and a very dangerous one. But so are Macron, Johnson, Trudeau, Ardhern, and von der Leyen.
I trust none of them.
And the timing of this conflict stinks to high Heaven.
.
Sums it up perfectly, this ‘invasion’ is nothing but a distraction.
Live cams from Kiev show a very normal looking city and some of the media footage has already been proved as fake.
Putin is another anal Schwab.
And now the cherry on top is Elon Husk activating Starlink over Ukraine because the Russians allegedly took out the internet……which they didn’t.
“anal Schwab”
Very good!
I’m stealing that.
Russians turn on Putin: Massive anti-war protests break out in Moscow and St Petersburg for fourth day in a row…
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10557215/Ukraine-war-Russians-turn-Putin-Kremlin-threatens-jail-traitors-try-help-Ukraine.html
Look who protested against the government…
Priceless
…
When the BBC show old footage of an air display over Kiev and says that they are Russian bombers …
And Miss Ukraine “defending Kiev” with an airsoft rifle, and the president “on the front line” but oops, from 2019, and airstrike video of a chemical explosion in china….
If they have to lie, it’s because the truth won’t work.
Again, a complete and utter fiction based on nothing but word of mouth on social media. Remember, stay sceptical, but don’t just swallow wholesale what sceptics say. The chemical explosion was not claimed by the BBC to be from Ukraine.
Social media algorithms are pushing the recycled images/videos into people’s feeds anyway to stoke anti-Russia sentiment, so the agenda is served both ways.
I understand that the air display was actually filmed in Moscow, several years ago…
https://off-guardian.org/2022/02/27/7-fake-news-stories-coming-out-of-ukraine/
The BBC was actually was one of the first outlets to debunk the bomber footage: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/60513452
And another of those mentioned by Off-Guardian: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/60528276
Just remember guys – be sceptical of your scepticism too.
“How should sceptics respond” etc…Well, be hugely sceptical i should think! I smell another giant Rattus Rattus. Johnson points his podgy digit at the newly ENDEMIC “Convid” and the end of restrictions, and suddenly Vlad (a WEF “global leader”) recognises the independence of the Donbas and invades Ukraine 🤔
We should ask “What else is occuring whilst our gaze is averted”?
March 1st 2022, an inter governmental negotiating body has been formed and they’re holding their first meeting today 🤔 Why? i hear you ask, the body has been assembled to discuss an “INTERNATIONAL TREATY ON PANDEMIC PREVENTION AND PREPAREDNESS”….According to Off Guardian, the aim is to deliver a progress report to the 76th World Health Assembly in 2023 and have the proposed instrument ready for legal implementation by 2024!
The NWO technocracy takes another “giant leap for mankind”. Will Putins Russia be party to this nascent global instrument of control or will they be excluded? Should give those of a sceptical bent a head’s up to whether this war in Ukraine is real or yet another FEKIN BIG FALSE FLAG OP…
I am not sure. Its just sickeneing the way the news coverage is invariably one or two items 24 x 7. I for one have deep suspicion of the MSM. While there i no doubt that what is going on in Ukraine is appalling – I still do not trust the MSM at all. It is very hard to get actual facts about what is going on – the media as usual take a very small number of pictures and recycles thm endlessly. I am thinking of the apartment blokk that was damaged in Kiev, and if they find a burnt out truck well that will do. Just think how the MSM covered the truckers – one person once carrying a flag for an hour is the news still. If you remember the coverage in Bhagdad (god forbid) there was no doubt that there was serious war going on. I am not seeing (nor do I want to) anything like that now. So while as I said it is terrible on a human level, I am sure this is being used as a big distraction – and as many commentators have pointed out – is probably inevitable, given the wokeness… Read more »
For anyone who thinks logically and does not let their psychological barriers/biases kick in, the actions that Putin has taken are entirely in the best interests of Russia. Putin was backed into a corner. In my opinion Russia’s action is our best hope of avoiding world war, which the West has been working towards since they installed a puppet Ukrainian government and supported neo-nazi brigades shelling civilians.
We all know Putin is a crook, but fortunately it is in his interests to avoid world war, and he is smart enough not to make the stupid decisions that the West has been making.
If the West was at all interested in diplomacy, this situation would have never arisen. But they are not interested in diplomacy because they need a new never ending threat of war to use against their own populations.
Trouble is there is a puppet nutter in the Whitehouse so GOK what will happen