Will Lockdown Advocates Ever Accept They Were Wrong?

We’re publishing our first ever review of a play today – Dr. Semmelweiss, which was devised by, and stars, Mark Rylance. It’s about a 19th century doctor who made a life-saving medical discovery but was disbelieved by the medical establishment because they were too attached to their wrongheaded theories. Quite relevant to where we find ourselves today, in other words. The review is by Edward Chancellor, a financial journalist and the author of Devil Take the Hindmost: A History of Financial Speculation. Here are the first four paragraphs:

The actor Mark Rylance is currently performing in the title role of an interesting new play at the Bristol Old Vic. Based on an original idea of Rylance’s and scripted by Stephen Brown, Dr. Semmelweiss relates the true story of a physician who, while working at the Vienna General Hospital in the mid-19th century, discovered a simple procedure that dramatically reduced the death rate for patients in his care.

Semmelweiss observed that maternity wards overseen by doctors experienced many more deaths than those attended only by midwives. He attributed the difference to the fact that medics went straight from performing autopsies on dead women to delivering babies, whereas midwives were kept out of the dissecting chamber. Semmelweiss concluded that the doctors must be infecting their patients with what he called “cadaveric particles”, and recommended that they wash their hands in chlorinated water before entering the wards. After this recommendation was put into practice, the death rate from childbed fever (puerperal sepsis) collapsed.

Despite Semmelweiss’ brilliant discovery, the Viennese medical establishment refused to accept his ideas and the wretched doctor, driven mad by his failure to prevent unnecessary deaths, ends up in a lunatic asylum. His failure owes something to his personality: in the play he is portrayed as excitable, self-absorbed, intolerant, sanctimonious and, at times, cruel in his obsessive desire to get his ideas accepted. As a result, he alienates both sympathetic colleagues and a lady grandee from Court who wanted to help. Visionaries are often difficult characters.

But the greatest obstacle turned out to be Semmelweiss’ superior, Dr. Johann Klein. Klein had his own pet theory as to the cause of childbirth deaths: he believed that the sickness was airbone and advocated more fresh air in the wards. Besides, Klein feared that Semmelweiss’ notions contradicted the findings of a recent Imperial Commission and he didn’t want to offend the hospital’s benefactors. Even though Semmelweiss’ experiments proved he was wrong, Klein refused to heed the evidence.

Worth reading in full.

You can buy tickets to Dr. Semmelweiss here.

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BS665
BS665
4 years ago

Semmelweiss was disbelieved because he was disliked. Sociology of science.

Are we disliked?

Ergo, when someone else who is on their side adopts our ideas, they will get the credit.

Let’s not end up in an asylum over it, like Semmelweiss/Zarathustra.

amanuensis
4 years ago
Reply to  BS665

Semmelweiss was disbelieved because he was disliked. Sociology of science

Is this perhaps a success-bias. Ie, normal mild mannered folk might think there might be something in it, but they’ll be less inclined to challenge authority; those just want an easy life might think there’s something in it, but will be more likely to roll over and think that the ‘established experts’ must be better informed than they are; yet others might just give up because ‘there’s no point in fighting it’.

It needs a certain combination of obsession, tenacity and disregard of ‘authority’ to keep on pushing against the weight of the establishment.

So perhaps he was more likely to be disliked, because more likeable people wouldn’t have pushed it as much as he did.

BS665
BS665
4 years ago
Reply to  amanuensis

Most people are conformists, and rely on reciprocity in game-playing. Those who suck up tend to get ahead, not the best who appear to lack respect for the system. Both underlings and chiefs may stand to lose from a boat rocker.

Reality just does not favour true open minded debate between equals, when position, prestige, money, power are at stake.

People truly are small minded, petty, biased, bigotted, and unfair in real life, much of the time.

Especially in a ‘non-confrontational’ culture like the British: where self-censorship and hypocrisy may thrive.

rayc
rayc
4 years ago
Reply to  BS665

The way I put is that most people cannot afford to be disliked. Just like they cannot afford to be free.

annicx
4 years ago
Reply to  rayc

Of course they can- it’s up to you what you do for a living. There are ample opportunities to do something other than what you do now. Just refuse to play and go your own way. to say most people don’t want to be disliked is more accurate, which is completely different. Sadly, most people are also terrified of freedom because it brings responsibility. Birds in search of a cage springs to mind.

Annie
4 years ago
Reply to  BS665

The secret of professional advancement, in any field, is knowing which arses to lick, and when.

BS665
BS665
4 years ago
Reply to  Annie

True, but the culture officially says talent is the key. What a delusion to peddle to school kids.

PC wokery helps too, but politics remains the key. Unless you don’t want to be Emperor of the Universe.

CynicalRealist
4 years ago
Reply to  Annie

And being a member of whichever minority groups the company is positively discriminating in favour of at that particular time.

annicx
4 years ago
Reply to  BS665

I think this is why the public sector is so poorly run- true talent and individualism just cannot thrive there.

Moist Von Lipwig
4 years ago
Reply to  BS665

He was disbelieved because people refused to think and because those disbelieving him stood to lose hugely by believing him.

BS665
BS665
4 years ago

He was also disliked as a nasty person.

ImpObs
4 years ago

Will Lockdown Advocates Ever Accept They Were Wrong?

It’s about as likely as admitting the jabs are dangerous and useless, i.e. not safe or effective.

Cecil B
Cecil B
4 years ago
Reply to  ImpObs

I suspect it will be like post war Germany where no one had been a member of the Nazi Party and they hadn’t seen or heard anything between 1933 and 1945

Star
4 years ago
Reply to  Cecil B

The sending back of respiratory-virus infected elderly people to “care homes” in 2020, followed by the denial of ambulance services to inmates of those institutions who then fell ill with respiratory symptoms (ambulances only called to pick up the corpses) – a crystal clear case of mass slaughter – has already been “forgotten about”.

We all know how the German Nazis were defeated.
How do you see their analogues today being defeated?

annicx
4 years ago
Reply to  Star

Back in July 2020 I was leaving a cafe when a woman in front of me just collapsed. Me and a shop assistant helped her sit up but it was clear she’d suffered a head injury and was losing blood. Another quite elderly shopper called an ambulance but was bewildered by the questions being fired at him- he passed me the phone and all the operator wanted to know was whether or not the woman had Covid. How the hell were we supposed to know? Did she have a temperature? Could we ask her? On it went until I said I was going to put her in my car and take her to a hospital at which point she grudgingly agreed to send an ambulance. Meanwhile this poor woman was sat on the floor bleeding from a head wound. Interesting that myself and two other people didn’t for one instant worry about whether the woman had Covid- we just went to her aid. This is the brilliant, wonderful NHS that everyone was applauding…

TheTartanEagle
TheTartanEagle
4 years ago

Semmelweis was born in 1818 and died in 1865 (of sepsis). Even at the end of his life, the importance of antisepsis was not yet fully recognised. So knowledge of disease causing bacteria and viruses was still extremely limited even towards the late 19th century. Joseph Lister (1827 – 1912) introduced widespread use of antiseptics and sterilisation in hospitals and medicine.

Good old Jenner was born in 1749 and died in 1823. He can therefore have known very little about the causes and consequences of infectious diseases. The primary result of him messing about transferring bodily fluids across species and between humans would have been the creation of even more infections. Vaccination or variolation would have spread smallpox, cowpox, TB, syphilis, sepsis, new variants, etc etc, round the world, no wonder it took another 200 years before smallpox finally fizzled out, the vaccines were spreading it. Another con trick.

Even the BBC knew the story of Semmelweis back in the late 60s/70s, it was on Blue Peter when they had adults presenting the programme.

miketa1957
miketa1957
4 years ago
Reply to  TheTartanEagle

The last (known) fatal case of Smallpox in the UK is fascinating. The wikipedia write up is (to the best of my knowledge) quite accurate. The infected woman got infected because of lax laboratory safety, not because of transmission from someone else. Her symptomatic infection was initially diagnosed as chickpox; it was 9 days from when she felt ill until she was admitted to hospital. A large number of people who had been in contact were isolated, and a larger number vaccinated. However, despite the delay in diagnosis, only one other person, her mother, had any symptoms, and then only mildly. It seems to me that it is wildly implausible that nobody was exposed before the vaccinations, and hence the vaccinations could not have been solely responsible for stopping an outbreak. Hence, my conclusion was that people were already essentially immune to smallpox, even though they had not been vaccinated prior. How is that? Maybe cowpox because endemic and out-competed smallpox? Maybe with improving public health, smallpox became less of an issue? Maybe smallpox mutated so something sufficiently benign that it was not noticed (like scarlet fever became scarletina). Whatever the answer, I cannot believe that the vaccinations were critical… Read more »

Beowulf
Beowulf
4 years ago
Reply to  miketa1957

Have you read “Dissolving Illusions: Disease, Vaccines, and the Forgotten History” by Roman Bystrianyk and Dr. Suzanne Humphries? Mortality from measles etc. fell long before vaccines were available, though the vaccines claimed the credit. Improvements in sanitation, water, housing and nutrition seem to be responsible for the great improvement in public health.

TheTartanEagle
TheTartanEagle
4 years ago
Reply to  miketa1957

In all centuries prior to the 20th, the vast majority of the poor lived in unheated hovels, the more crowded towns and cities would have been horrific. No clean water, no hot water, no bathing facilities, babies perpetually damp, clothing hard to come by, half starving etc etc etc. No wonder diseases and pestilence swept through populations. Once the Victorians had got busy with massive infrastructure projects, general public health improved massively. Even in the 1960s, some families still had no indoor toilet. Conditions in slums were still very poor in the 1970s. Clean water, sewers, decent food and cleanliness are the greatest contributors to public health, there was no vaccine miracle.

annicx
4 years ago
Reply to  TheTartanEagle

Well- better bone up on all this because this is the future that awaits us under the green Stasi.

Nigel Sherratt
4 years ago
Reply to  TheTartanEagle

The truth is much more interesting than your version. Jenner took material from a milkmaid. The cow to milkmaid transmission had been happening from time immemorial.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3342363/

Anonymous
Anonymous
4 years ago
Reply to  Nigel Sherratt

Yes, that’s right (or at least what we are told). The jumping species part was happening anyway and actually why the milkmaids were not getting smallpox. Hence Jenner’s theory and experiment. Interestingly and sadly, James Phipps, the boy he first experimented on did not get smallpox but he did get TB a few years later and died of that. Could the smallpox vaccination have been making people more susceptible to TB?

Bolloxed Britannia
Bolloxed Britannia
4 years ago

“Accept they were wrong”…What, accept that you were/are a cretinously compliant member of a populace that unquestioningly facilitated the building of this countries first bio-security Fascist state? NO! Rubbish i hear you cry! It ain’t over yet folk’s, the 1% have invested too much time and money to go quietly into the Sunset…
“There are none so blind as those who will not see”

Hypatia
Hypatia
4 years ago

I cannot stop thinking that this has just been a trial run for the Climate Clampdown…..net zero won’t achieve itself after all.

There will have to be sacrifices. And we all know who won’t be making them.

In the interests of the common good, you understand, the “ordinary” people will have to starve, freeze and go nowhere; but think of the lovely world our betters will enjoy!

David Beaton
David Beaton
4 years ago
Reply to  Hypatia

Of course it is! All in league with the published agenda of the WEF “Great Reset” which is very vert real.

We need to wise up to survive what hey plan for us.

Liberty4UK
Liberty4UK
4 years ago
Reply to  Hypatia

Some may expect that they would enjoy it, but a semi-empty world filled with crumbling buildings and a feeling of being watched and haunted by the resentful dead would be about as much fun as a never-ending ride on a ghost train that you can’t get off. If some have not yet worked that out it is because they are dim in a way that they have not as yet even recognised nor considered. There are many ways to be dense.

miketa1957
miketa1957
4 years ago
Reply to  Liberty4UK

I don’t know. A world where the only survivors are the unvaccinated would have its advantages.

Liberty4UK
Liberty4UK
4 years ago
Reply to  miketa1957

It will not be those who warned others (whether or not they were listened to) who will be those tortured, plagued, and haunted by blood guilt. There may be some guilt that we could have warned more, but each person is in a somewhat unique position as to how much and under what names they can warn without being rendered less useful.

Moist Von Lipwig
4 years ago
Reply to  Hypatia

It’s the result of green indoctrination, mediaevalist philosophy revived the mediaeval policy of lockdown.

Ignore the rubbish about the great reset conspiracy theory, it’s green philosophy being taught that is to blame.

annicx
4 years ago

Some years ago a fellow sceptic said to me that the trouble with these fools is that they romanticise peasant life- the reality would terrify them and they’d just curl up in a ball and die.

Moist Von Lipwig
4 years ago
Reply to  annicx

Yes. The key to understanding it is that they reject everything on which modern life is based so they must necessarily want a return to peasant life.

Star
4 years ago

The answer to the question in the headline is “No”.

Some really do believe that if only the rulers listened to the small number of isolated and slightly less than completely careerist “graph boy” members of the careerist classes they’d be in with a chance of wising up – and therefore (as they would have it) open to becoming the most helpy and philanthropic rulers you could possibly imagine.

Others believe, rightly, that “You can’t reform profit, capitalism, and inhumanity. Just kick it till it breaks.”

TheyLiveAndWeLockdown
4 years ago
Reply to  Star

unfortunately for those affected marxist coercion .the people most kicked when wealth creation is banned are the wealth creators (i.e. workers), then everyone fights for a shrinking pile as shortages rapidly increase.
It would be nice to have capitalism, but we have progressive feudalism.
Until income taxes end we have marxism and the establishment welfare state that inevitably follows.

Moist Von Lipwig
4 years ago
Reply to  Star

Lockdown is communist so that blows your claim out of the water.

annicx
4 years ago
Reply to  Star

What is wrong with capitalism and profit? Surely you don’t think what is happening now is capitalism?

Emerald Fox
4 years ago

I wonder why some people think “It’s all over” – Hopium turns into Delirium? You only have to look at the entry requirements for countries in Europe to see that there’s a preference for the Vaxx Pass – a pass that remains valid only on the condition that you’ve taken the latest jab.

This will be interesting – the passes are running out already, as every day goes by. Something has to happen.

Vxi7
Vxi7
4 years ago
Reply to  Emerald Fox

People are delusional. All my colleagues are celebrating it’s over! How? Where? Have we passed the October/November of ’22 without restrictions? Haven’t we got’ liberated’ also last year then got clamped down again?? And last year liberation was without vaxxpass to travel? This year with?

RW
RW
4 years ago
Reply to  Emerald Fox

We were to have a lockdown after COP26. People claimed who to know all about the invisible things-behind-the-things were very convinced of that. But we didn’t. So, they had to adjust their theories which – and that’s one thing I consider really strange – never blame China for the global spread of Chinese nonsense-politics since 2020.

miketa1957
miketa1957
4 years ago

Indeed. And one of them is here downvoting!

StoppingtoThink
StoppingtoThink
4 years ago

Following The Science as opposed to following science. Now where have I seen that trick recently?

HelenaHancart
HelenaHancart
4 years ago

Following The $cience…

Beowulf
Beowulf
4 years ago
Reply to  HelenaHancart

I like what you did with the S. I’m going to borrow it if you don’t mind.

PatrickF
PatrickF
4 years ago

I think “Doctor Ivor Mectin” is a better play. Mark Rylance, as Dr Vaxx, is particularly good.

Dave Angel Eco Warrior
Dave Angel Eco Warrior
4 years ago

No. Simply because lockdown advocates do not consider themselves to be wrong and never will do.

FrankFisher
4 years ago

Plenty of people remain socialists even after socialism’s rather public 1989 collapse. I suspect many of the same people are still lockdowners, and for the same reasons.

Vaxtastic
4 years ago
Reply to  FrankFisher

Yes, it satisfies a deep need. Or, rather, it helps them cope with a cluster of fears about the chaos of life. Classic displacement. If I control the world I’ll be safe.

TheyLiveAndWeLockdown
4 years ago
Reply to  Vaxtastic

I think it’s narcissistic personality disorder often the people least able to run their own lives have a desire to run others.

Cecil B
Cecil B
4 years ago

Were the resigners (dunno) of Downing Street required to sign non disclosure agreements in return for wheelbarrows full of taxpayers cash?

David.in.Italy
4 years ago
Reply to  Cecil B

I met the director of I.T. of The White House, many years ago.
He mentioned that on his day of recruitment, he had to simply sign a blank piece of paper as part of the standard employment package.
Should ‘something’ later come up, anything, but probably a letter of resignation any date/time/reason could be appended, to avoid a crisis.

I’ve no idea if No.10 is similarly prepared.

JayBee
4 years ago

The real problem was, that it was the doctors fault and, on top of that, that their error was pretty simple and stupid.
Many if not most doctors see themselves as Gods and as such as being infallible.
And the only thing they’d defend even more aggressively than themselves is their whole profession, so the odds were stacked very much against Semmelweiss and, above all, the babies.
The similarities to today are indeed striking, in particular the witchhunt against dissenting MDs by the doctors associations is a new modern times low for that profession.

amanuensis
4 years ago
Reply to  JayBee

The God complex in medics reflects how they perceive the general public, not each other.

I’d say that this is a general principle in science — while it is nice to think that science is a mature subject which progresses at an even pace, the reality is that it goes in fits and spurts, with each the majority suppressing new theories until the supporting evidence becomes overwhelming and the prior theory becomes redundant over a very short time period.

TheyLiveAndWeLockdown
4 years ago
Reply to  amanuensis

Possibly because it’s only possible to show something is wrong, but not right.

realarthurdent
4 years ago
Reply to  JayBee

That’s certainly a big part of it but I think a lot of doctors have become complacent and forgotten what their actual role is – to heal sick patients – and have become little more than pushers of Big Pharma products and inmates of a bureaucratic prison. What was striking about Dr Peter McCullough’s lectures on early treatment was that he behaved like an old-fashioned doctor and, faced with a novel virus, rather than sit and wait for a “vaccine” or some kind of miracle cure, or advice from the NIH, he and his colleagues set about treating the symptoms with existing proven medicines. Respiratory symptoms? Use existing respiratory medicines. Blood clotting? Use blood thinners. Immune system issues? – boost the immune system via supplements. Inflammation? – existing steroid treatments. And started getting results. Over time they refined their approach based on what worked and what didn’t, and ended up with their early treatment regime (attached). It sounded revolutionary in comparison to what was going on in most countries and in most hospitals but it just seems like common sense old-fashioned medicine. And if this approach had been used everywhere many lives would have been saved, or prolonged. Most doctors… Read more »

covidearlytreatment.JPG
RW
RW
4 years ago
Reply to  realarthurdent

Buy and take over-the-counter painkillers and wait until it’s over is the universal NHS method of dealing with not directly life-threatening condition.

Zionist
Zionist
4 years ago

Firstly, Mark Rylance is a boring and highly overrated actor. Secondly, in the near future lockdown advocates will say there were never lockdown advocates and that will be the mainstream understanding, anyone pointing their advocasy out will be labeled right wing conspiracy theorist.

Cecil B
Cecil B
4 years ago
Reply to  Zionist

Do you mean ‘right wing racist mysogynistic conspiracy theorists’?

John Dee
4 years ago
Reply to  Zionist

I don’t remember ever encountering Rylance before his part as Cromwell in the Wolf Hall TV adaptation. I found him compelling in that part.
Imagine my dismay when I discovered that (like most other luvvies) he thinks that I’m insane or deluded and should never have been given a vote in the EU referendum.
Happily, I’m prepared to ignore his politics and judge him solely on his acting.
Disappointingly for him(?) I won’t be going to see his incarnation of the good doctor Semmelweiss, since I’m avoiding vaccinated crowds until further notice.

loopDloop
loopDloop
4 years ago
Reply to  Zionist

I agree. He has one character with no expression. Wheels it out in every movie. So now he’s lecturing us about medical theory with some boring play. Here’s my question: is he vaccinated? I have no idea, but I bet he is, right? So what’s the message? Take the death jab to hear Mark Rylance lecture me about the shocking history of western medicine? Err no thanks.

Lockdown Sceptic
4 years ago

NHS Still Demanding Staff Get Pricked
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPRXmZoO9uk
Alex Belfield – THE VOICE OF REASON

Let’s keep getting the message out

Thursday 10th February 5pm 
 Silent lighted walk behind one simple sign 
 “No More Lockdown & Covid Rules Are Barking”  
Bring torches, candles and other lights  
meet outside Town Hall, between Rose Inn & Costa 
Wokingham RG40 1AP

Stand in the Park Sundays 10am  make friends, ignore the madness & keep sane 
Wokingham Howard Palmer Gardens Cockpit Path car park Sturges Rd RG40 2HD  
Henley Mills Meadows (at the bandstand) Henley-on-Thames RG9 1DS

Telegram Group 
http://t.me/astandintheparkbracknell

Cecil B
Cecil B
4 years ago

At 8pm each Thursday they will stand on their doorsteps and shout in unison ‘Not me guv’

realarthurdent
4 years ago

“Will Lockdown Advocates Ever Accept They Were Wrong?”
If Prof Desmet is correct, they probably won’t, because lockdowns and all of the pandemic response theatre brought some meaning, social bonds, and group identity to many previously dull, meaningless lives and acted as a hook for all of their previously free-floating anxiety.

Admitting that all of it was unnecessary and that they will never return to those (for them) heady days of being locked up at home for their safety and security – with working class people delivering everything they needed – will be a kind of psychological death for them. Extremely painful and therefore to be avoided at all costs.

Margaret
4 years ago
Reply to  realarthurdent

I upset my friend early on in the debacle by saying that for many people this was the most exciting thing that had ever happened to them.

Star
4 years ago

Nineteenth and twentieth century medicine was full of fun facts, from amazing ostrich acts to the spread of the term “doctor” to mean something akin to “ordained one”, from the foundation of the GMC in 1858 to the torture of the suffragettes and the evil inhuman sneers against them in the Lancet in the following century.

Fun question: which organisation did the BMA (by far the most powerful trade union in Britain) buy its headquarters from?

David Beaton
David Beaton
4 years ago

Those advocating Lockdowns wee working to a WEF/CCP Agenda- they were not simply ‘wrong’ they were criminally wrong.

How can anyone still be in any doubt about it?

We still have a long way to go before the scales fall from ye eyes of so many – if they ever do..

Moist Von Lipwig
4 years ago
Reply to  David Beaton

Easy, I grasp the power of ideas and reject mindlessness, of which conspiracy theories are a part.

TheGreenAcres
4 years ago

As much as we can point at Sweden (and I prefer the example of Florida), lockdown zealots can always rely on the fact that specifically for Britain it is impossible to prove the counter-factual.

The predictions of SAGE modelers have been tested twice in England – July 2021 and Dec 2021 – and have been completely wrong on both occasions.

crisisgarden
4 years ago

I’m currently in an online argument on this subject that I wish I’d never got involved in. Lockdown fanatics are really fixed on the idea that China, Australia and NZ are examples of lockdown success stories; as one said to me this morning:

Why don’t you compare the number of deaths per capita between the states and countries you listed and China, Australia, and New Zealand. Let me know what you discover. You do understand numbers, right?

They won’t look at the absence of correlation between US states and their stringency measures (generally hand-waving about population density and when the virus arrived) and Sweden doesn’t count because apparently according to Google data they were in a (non-enforced) lockdown. You can’t win. The same people no doubt believe that however bad they got Covid after they’d been ‘vaccinated’, it would have been much worse had they not been. Again, you end up arguing about hypotheticals.

If the intention was to create irreconcilable division amongst society, our tormentors have played a masterstroke.

Vaxtastic
4 years ago
Reply to  crisisgarden

The reason these arguments fail is because the lockdown advocates you are arguing with find hard restrictions satisfy their own need for control. Deep down many of them fear freedom and all the responsibility it implies.

Hence the endless discussions of death numbers etc. The concept of inviolable rights is lost on them. They don’t care. Taken to extremes they find it maddening people don’t want rules to follow. It triggers them.

I’m sure you know all this.

loopDloop
loopDloop
4 years ago
Reply to  crisisgarden

I hate internet arguments, because people. I try to just drop my truth bombs and not look back to see the frenzied reactions. Except sometimes. So, yeah, people and their rhetoric. So take this knob you’re playing with ‘Let me know what you discover, you do understand numbers right?’. The dripping sarcasm. The oozing smartypantsism. The patronising twirl with the smug idiot grin. Where was I. Oh yes, the numbers, run the numbers. Because deaths per capita are all that matters. Twirl. Like people’s lives destroyed. Flashes clever-dick smile. Like the sheer crushing effect of loneliness and lockdown and madness and eating disorders and selfharm and suicide and people pulling their own teeth out with pliers. None of that matters. Does a little dance of self-satisfaction. And that’s why Carole Baskin’s a f***ing b****. Do I have the math right there? Or am I off by an order of magnitude? So you take the average IQ of an Australian, divide it by the number of boosters, and multiply by the number of times you heard her say ‘The Science’. Now get online and blast a denier with that. You do understand numbers right?

crisisgarden
4 years ago
Reply to  loopDloop

Yes more fool me. I should have remembered, people!

JaneDoeNL
JaneDoeNL
4 years ago
Reply to  crisisgarden

TBH, when I see people make a comment like “you do understand numbers, right”, I always think it’s a shill. The condescension puts it in the ‘person paid to argue’ camp. Make people who are at risk of waking up, doubt themselves and their own intellect.

Ask if they understand these New Zealand numbers:
53 corona deaths – indeed, very good
133 vaxx deaths – not so good – unless, of course, the most important thing is not whether someone needlessly died, just as long as it was not from corona

The vaxx death data is from NZ safety report 39 which only reports to 31 December 2021 – I can only assume the vaxx deaths have increased for them not to have provided an update by now.

crisisgarden
4 years ago
Reply to  JaneDoeNL

Ahh, but what would the corona deaths have been if there hadn’t been a vaxx programme? Etc. etc. etc 😵‍💫😵‍💫😵‍💫
But thanks, I’ll use that!

Moist Von Lipwig
4 years ago
Reply to  crisisgarden

Why don’t you compare the number of deaths per capita between the states and countries you listed and China, Australia, and New Zealand. Let me know what you discover. You do understand numbers, right?”

That’s the logical fallacy of begging the question, they assume that lockdown worked, rather than proving it worked.

RW
RW
4 years ago
Reply to  crisisgarden

May a God save us from the really talentless amateur sophists! 🙂

A sensible reply to that could be: If you want to make an argument based on these numbers, please feel free do to so. Your snide remarks about me are an irrelvant distrcation which suggests that you can’t make said argument.

Vaxtastic
4 years ago

We have to acknowledge that some who were drawn to lockdowns simply like control. Many had zero interest in data, efficacy or other relevant factors. They used the language of epidemiology and science to satisfy their lust for control. Better data demonstrating the ineffectiveness of the strategy are irrelevant.

This is analogous to the climate fanatics whose deep desire is to punish us for our energy use. Some of them salivate at the prospect of power cuts and rationing. Presenting them with data questioning the potential effects of policies they endorse to satisfy an inner void is pointless.

Lockdowns are wrong because they infringe upon our rights. That’s what rights are, things to which we are entitled to regardless of events. They are not permissions. It is this point we must emphasize. Even if lockdowns could be shown to help they need to be illegal. Simple as that.

smithey
4 years ago
Reply to  Vaxtastic

Agreed. You cannot put a price on your freedom.

DanClarke
DanClarke
4 years ago

The media told us that we wanted lockdowns, most people went along with it thinking they were doing the right thing and complying The media are still telling us what we want, DM Britain wants Camilla as Queen. Agenda politics manipulated by the msm

DanClarke
DanClarke
4 years ago

The motto of this story seems to be, do not offend your benefactors and let’s face it, its covid to a T

disgruntled246
disgruntled246
4 years ago

In a word, no.

brachiopod
4 years ago

I used to hope that the rule of thumb that ‘science progresses, one funeral at a time’ but it seems that it takes much longer and requires a forceful character of popular disquiet to push change.
It is noteworthy that in the case of modern (ha ha) cancer treatment aka ‘slash, burn, and poison’ the establishment is still holding out against the evidence of Warburg that the root cause is mitochondrial damage and not the resulting downstream effects of cellular ‘malfunction’. Cynically this is par for the course for an industry that knows there is no financial future in curing cancer, but plenty of moolah in a stream of ineffective hope-boosting patent protected drugs each designed to ‘treat’ a specific set of symptoms resulting from mitochondrial damage in particular cells. [See e.g. Thomas Seyfried]

John001
John001
4 years ago
Reply to  brachiopod

Nixon had a ‘war on cancer’ in about 1970, I think. 50 more years of the medical-industrial complex gave us Vioxx (killed >100,000) and other disasters.

A healthy diet and lifestyle should greatly reduce the risk of developing it.

Nixon’s ‘war on cancer’ was followed by an increase in the percent dying from cancer. Er, the war was lost. I now expect the same if people believe the medical establishment and follow NHS advice.

TheyLiveAndWeLockdown
4 years ago
Reply to  John001

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warburg_effect_(oncology)

just avoid fructose. if you can, as fructose production is heavily subsidised for some reason….

It’s like they want ill people.

Hester
Hester
4 years ago

https://www.politico.eu/article/digital-euro-bill-due-early-2023/
There you go folks the next stage of the great reset, central banks introducing a digital currency, you have your digital I.D. now as a result of the failed injection, now you get your own digital currency bank account controlled centrally, so that the great and the good can tell you how, when and what to spend it on. Thats if they dont take it away from you.
You will own nothing and be happy.
Because Klaus schwab and Bill Gates has told you so

PhilP
PhilP
4 years ago

Funny how history keeps repeating itself but we never learn from it.

disgruntled246
disgruntled246
4 years ago

They’re all deranged. Particularly enjoyed the one who said that as a scientist he enjoys having his views challenged by facts, then goes on to say how wonderful the ‘doesn’t actually stop you getting or pass on covid’ jab is. The irony.

court
4 years ago

I might pop along to see that. No distancing, no need to prove status unlike some other venues, just a request to mask which we would obviously decline.

A passerby
A passerby
4 years ago

Colds vs Cancer, which keeps which in check with some degree of regulatory and at no cost. Naturally I have no scientific evidence to support this thought. 

Paul B
4 years ago

Johnson declares covid over in last ditch attempt to save himself.

smithey
4 years ago
Reply to  Paul B

Strange how the severity of Covid ebbs and flows with Johnson’s political fortunes.

GeorgeMarcheaux
GeorgeMarcheaux
4 years ago

Breaking News –

My home, the Bailiwick of Guernsey is set to allow the emergency powers granted to ‘The CCA’ – Civil Contingencies Authority – to lapse at 00-00 17th Feb.

This means no requirement to isolate, test, etc etc

But whats the catch?

A world first i believe though!

Smelly Melly
4 years ago

Is it they will allow the emergency powers to lapse or do they EXPECT the emergency powers to lapse? Will the emergency laws still be in place or will they be repealed.

GeorgeMarcheaux
GeorgeMarcheaux
4 years ago
Reply to  Smelly Melly

from the presser:

The CCA will not renew emergency regulations when they expire this month.
• Legally mandated self-isolation for COVID-19 cases and border restrictions, including the requirement to complete a Travel Tracker, ends 17 February 2022.