Jordan Peterson Compares Climate Model Errors to Compounding Interest

It’s been all Canada on Joe Rogan’s popular Spotify podcast of late. First, crinkly rockers Neil and Joni threw their guitars out of the pram when Rogan dared to broadcast a number of different opinions on Covid and vaccines. Then fellow Canadian Dr. Jordan Peterson said climate models compounded their errors, just like interest. Green activists and zealots (often known in the climate change business as ‘scientists’) clutched their responsibly sourced pearls and whined, “Lawks a-mercy, it’s outrageous!” and “Banning’s too good for them!”. The septuagenarian songsters briefly found themselves out of the headlines as the mainstream media rushed to quell a growing sceptical climate debate and rubbish a troublesome competitor.

Dr. Peterson suggested that the climate was too complex to be modelled. Such notions were said to be a “word salad of nonsense“, reported a distraught Guardian. Dr. Sarah Perkins-Kirkpatrick of the University of Canberra added Peterson had “no frickin’ idea”. Professor Michal Mann of Penn State University said Peterson’s comments – and Rogan’s “facilitation” of them – was an “almost comedic type of nihilism” that would be funny if it wasn’t so dangerous.

This of course is the same Michael Mann who produced the infamous temperature hockey stick that was at the centre of the 2010 Climategate scandal. The graph was used for a time in IPCC reports and showed a 1,000 year straight temperature line followed by a recent dramatic rise. This startling image was helped by the mysterious disappearance of the medieval warming period and subsequent little ice age. Discussion about the graph led to Mann pursuing a U.S. libel suit against the broadcaster and journalist Mark Steyn. In court filings, Mann argued that it was one thing to engage in discussion about debatable topics, but it was quite another to “attempt to discredit consistently validated scientific research through the professional and personal defamation of a Nobel Prize recipient”. He is not himself a Nobel Prize recipient, but perhaps he was referring to someone else.

Independent minded communicators like Joe Rogan and take-no-prisoner intellectuals such as Dr. Peterson command a worldwide audience and they are difficult to cancel. The battle between Neil Young and Joni Mitchell and Joe Rogan, sitting on a $100m Spotify contract, had only one free speech winner – at least for the moment. Meanwhile, the Guardian’s default position when faced with something unsettling like the ‘settled’ science of anthropogenic climate change is to declare it will not “lend” its credibility to its critics by engaging in debate. That was obviously not possible with Peterson’s remarks being plastered all over social media, although it could be argued that the Guardian reporting the vulgar abuse users posted in response is not much of a substitute for the usual lofty disdain.

Dr. Peterson attacked climate models on a number of fronts. In particular, he noted that as you stretch out the models across time “the errors increase radically”. In its way, this refers to the biggest problem that lies at the heart of the 40-year track record of climate model failures. To make a prediction, climate models are fed a guess of the increase in the global mean surface temperature that follows a doubling of atmospheric CO2. Nobody actually knows what this figure is – the science for this crucial piece of the jigsaw is missing, unsettled you may say. The estimates run from 1°C to as high as 6°C and of course the higher the estimate, the hotter the forecasts run.

As they don’t say in the climate and Covid modelling business – Garbage In, Garbage Out.

Meanwhile back in the real world, global warming has been running out of steam over the last two decades. Satellite temperatures, which have been available since 1979, provide a more accurate measurement of global warming (or cooling) than flawed and frequently massaged surface measurements.

The graph above from Remote Sensing Systems demonstrates the lack of warming measured by satellites and is displayed by the black line. Forecasts from climate models, contained within the yellow area, started to diverge significantly from the late 1990s, backing Dr. Peterson’s claim that over time they magnify their own errors. As with epidemiological models, there seems little incentive to tone down the inputs – it’s difficult to make a reputation, and secure grants, by saying that few people will die. In the case of climate models, there are also 204,000,000,000,000 reasons to exaggerate – this being the £204 trillion that McKinsey recently said must be spent to achieve the political goal of global Net Zero by 2050.

The ‘pure’ science around climate change is thin on the ground in the fast-growing Earth Science university faculties, more often than not a rebranding of the old Geography departments. The real science surrounds the effect of adding CO2 to the atmosphere, where an advanced knowledge of chemistry and physics is essential. Within such academic circles, there are growing doubts about the unproven hypothesis that humans cause all or most global warming by burning fossil fuel. While CO2 has been rising recently from a geologically ultra-low base, there is little correlation between the gas and temperature movement in almost any timeframe. Again Dr. Peterson is right to note that the climate is too complex to model accurately since there are almost countless other natural factors at work in a chaotic atmosphere.

Professor William Happer of Princeton has suggested that CO2 becomes “saturated” once it reaches a certain level, since it reflects heat back to Earth only within certain bands of the infrared spectrum. Increases in CO2 beyond current levels will have little effect on future warming, or cooling. Far from being harmful, the extra CO2 is highly beneficial for plant growth and food.

Recently, a group of physics professors from the University of Massachusetts led by Kenneth Skrable examined the carbon isotope trail released by fossil fuel burning. They found the amount of CO2  released was “much too low to be the cause of global warming”. The German physicist Dr Frank Stefani looked at the effect of the Sun and geomagnetic forces on the planet and concluded that the Sun alone accounted for between 30-70% of recent planetary warming

About two years ago, 48 Italian science professors wrote an open letter to their Government noting that the “advanced alarmist forecasts” of climate models “were not credible”. Natural variability, it was said, “explains a substantial part of global warming observed since 1850”. Catastrophic predictions “are not realistic”. The letter was signed by a number of distinguished academics including Antonino Zichichi, Emeritus Professor of Physics, a past president of the World Federation of Scientists and the discoverer of nuclear antimatter. Not that the folks who write for the Guardian would ever “lend” their credibility by talking about the climate with these 48 ‘denier’ scientists.

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TSull
TSull
4 years ago

Peterson is right. There are simply too many variables driving climate and the climate models are not only naïve in the extreme but fail to take into account the significant impact of natural variations in solar output.

Bolloxed Britannia
Bolloxed Britannia
4 years ago

A conundrum…. I’ve listened too and read Jordan Peterson’s output, with interest, and on occasion, reverence, for several year’s now…but.
I thought he possessed a brain the size of a planet, but like many commentators with interesting things to say, he rolled up his sleeve and accepted an untested cytotixin, apparently without researching the potential for future harm’s! I now question my former assertion that he possesses a brain the size of a planet. The conundrum…Should you listen to the “big brains” now that they have displayed their feet of clay?

FrankFisher
4 years ago

He is too trusting in “experts” outside his field. Not uncommon in academia.

John Dee
4 years ago
Reply to  FrankFisher

It is somewhat disappointing that JP’s concept of returning to ‘normality’ included subjecting himself to an experimental process with no known long-term safety statistics.
I know a microbiologist who enthusiastically explained why the pharmas had managed to compress the time taken to develop and test the vaxxes (the time saved was in the getting of the funding, with governments happy to splash money hither and thither). What he couldn’t explain was how the compressed testing could predict any longer-term problems.
He’s now ‘enthusiastically’ vaxxed, of course.

crisisgarden
4 years ago
Reply to  John Dee

It’s a question so basic that a child could have posed it. And yet educated people’s religious zeal for vaccines prevents them from seeing it; or they say something like ‘well, mRNA vaccines have been in development for 30 years’, failing to account of course for the long term effects of the purportedly brand new spike protein encoded by the process and made in unknown quantities in their body. They’ll have to learn the hard way unfortunately.

Liberty4UK
Liberty4UK
4 years ago
Reply to  crisisgarden

I’m not a scientist but pretty quickly found the vets’ cessation of similar vaccines for pets, and the reasons for them, which led in turn to more knowledge, and now am familiar with the work of some key people. You cannot just sit back, follow the mainstream and be safe.

For me the moral is that your own health is your own health and no-one is as bothered with it as you are yourself, so to know who and what to trust is completely key. And yet so many did not!

Following the crowd,- seemingly on auto- is death-dealing as T.S. Eliot reminds us (echoing Dante’s inferno) in “The Waste Land”

“Under the brown fog of a winter dawn,
A crowd flowed over London Bridge, so many,
I had not thought death had undone so many.”

It is gallingly so for us now.

FrankFisher
4 years ago
Reply to  John Dee

I know – observing 365 people for a single day is not the same as observing one person for a full year. This is so simple, and so obvious, but the covidians do not seem able to grasp it. Additionally, even the trial data is lousy. The Pfizer data in particular is piss poor, minimal efficacy demonstrated, no overall mortality benefit, very limited trial, no populations with common co-morbitities. The ONLY reason it was approved was because of the “emergency”.

What emergency?

loopDloop
loopDloop
4 years ago
Reply to  FrankFisher

Indeed. Love JP, but this is his weakspot. It is typical of those who rely on their status of expertise to defer to others who are also ‘experts’, as part of the game of mutual recognition. I guess it’s hard to think outside that box when you are in it. I don’t want to be unkind here, but his medical episode last year which was very severe, it seems to me was partially due to this tendency, in that he went ahead and accepted prescriptions for Diazepam based on his physicians expertise. Yet, throwing expertise out the window for a few moments and just googling Diazepam issues including addiction should be enough to have anyone running fast in the opposite direction. So, I guess it’s hard when you are embedded to think outside the embed, even for such a giant of a thinker as JP. Having said all that, I’m a bit disappointed he hasn’t played a bigger role in Covid-sane discourse.

FrankFisher
4 years ago
Reply to  loopDloop

I’m not even sure he’s a giant of a thinker. He’s a smart guy and well read and he has bold ideas, but I doubt I’d be intellectually intimidated by him over a pint, or a JD – I think he’s a bourbon drinker too. Nope, what is most impressive about him is the way he connects with people, and particularly young men. I have lost count of the number of posts on his articles and videos where young guys say “JP saved my life.” or “reading 12 rules transformed my life” or “I was an addict till I watched his videos”. THOUSANDS of such comments. You have to respect that. Well, I certainly do at least.

I’m aware of no one else in public life – on the planet – who has that as a track record. And don’t the media just hate him for it.

John Dee
4 years ago
Reply to  FrankFisher

Most idols tend, in the fullness of time, to display feet of clay. As you mention, for any faults he may have, JP has benefitted the lives of many in a way that most politicians could only dream of.

Vaxtastic
4 years ago
Reply to  John Dee

Perhaps your issue is idolization itself. I’m sure Peterson has a few videos on this 🙂

Vaxtastic
4 years ago
Reply to  FrankFisher

Great observation. I’ve noticed this too.

His great sin is to sympathise and connect with that most dangerous of groups, disenchanted young men. I mean, how can we establish toxic masculinity as a concept if some Canadian is trying to help them succeed in life?

Adrian25
4 years ago
Reply to  loopDloop

To oppose Covid-vaccines is career suicide.
Unfortunately, people only wake up when they themselves, or a close friend or family member get harmed.
And it must happen immediately for them to accept the link.

Liberty4UK
Liberty4UK
4 years ago
Reply to  FrankFisher

His Achilles heel has so far been in the medical realm. Benzos, strange diets, and now the gene therapy. Let us hope that he plugs the gaps in his armour as he has so many worthwhile things to say.

Vaxtastic
4 years ago

I’d caution against that. He at least admitted his regret. He also admitted his reasoning; he bought the lie the jabs would return normality. When he realized this was not the case he spoke up.

If he’d doubled down and condemned the unclean, or even just endorsed the injections, I’d be the first to condemn him. But he has an honesty about him few possess. I’d rather have that honesty than the endless presentation of fake media types.

stewart
4 years ago

There’s a difference between being clever and being infallible.

No one is infallible, which is why anything anyone says should be questioned.

Mumbo Jumbo
4 years ago

Although my brain is only the size of a small asteroid, early last year I weighed the risk of Covid against the risk of vaccination for a person of my advanced age. The balance came down slightly on the vax side provided I avoided the mRNA type, and I duly went ahead in Feb 20.
Since then a lot more information has come to light and I now regret my decision, but hope for the best, especially as it turns out that it is now worthless after a year. The potential for long term side effects, however, has not disappeared.

stewart
4 years ago
Reply to  Mumbo Jumbo

The worst long term side effect, of course, is the loss of freedom which has resulted from millions rushing to get jabbed.

Sites like this one seem bullish that it’s all over but no one is travelling anywhere in the future without proving their “health status” in some way or another. The freedom to travel freely without having to present health credentials is gone.

Martillo
Martillo
4 years ago

Listen to your soul if you have already found it. The rest is chatter.

D B
D B
4 years ago

Peterson and his family engage in some utterly bizarre practices by my estimation, including odd diets, intravenous ingestion of various things and other spurious sponsors of his podcast, I don’t agree with them in the slightest but I am interested to hear various perspectives. Many fine people have taken injections over the recent past, I guess I have them in my circle for reasons other than their decisions…

Adrian25
4 years ago

Yes, BB, he certainly dropped sharply in my own admiration of him by being so gullible, or to put it more kindly, so trusting.
Ironically, it was my own long experience of being wise to the climate change scam which helped me to recognize the fake pandemic and the fake and dangerous ‘vaccines’. There are huge similarities. The same hoaxsters are involved.

unmaskthetruth
4 years ago

I’d like to see how hot England will be under a Ferguson Climate model. Bring it on!

Vaxtastic
4 years ago
Reply to  unmaskthetruth

Indeed. An uninhabitable wasteland no doubt.

John Dee
4 years ago
Reply to  Vaxtastic

But northeast Scotland will be the new Costa del Sol!

Vaxtastic
4 years ago
Reply to  John Dee

The surfing will be pretty amazing.

Mr Taxpayer
Mr Taxpayer
4 years ago

The climate models use the same technology as financial prediction models and the covid models. No one in finance circles predicted with any credible accuracy the 2008 crash. Similarly EVERY covid model to date has been wildly pessimistic.

Amtrup
4 years ago

Great piece. Thx. I’ve believed the manmade climate change argument for years, with just a blip in the late noughties after reading Bjorn Blomberg, but scales have been falling from my eyes as a result of the Covid thing.

Amtrup
4 years ago
Reply to  Amtrup

PS. Hours later I realise that should be “Bjorn ***Lomborg***”! Sorry!

Vaxtastic
4 years ago

The key phenomenon we need to model and publicize is the tendency for politics and money to inflate threats that further the aims of collectivists, puritans and associated world controllers. It is this basic tendency of human psychology we need to better explain to the masses of distracted headline skimmers who rarely get beyond sensationalist headlines. Even a cursory examination of recent causes should damn modelling forever; 500,000 to die in the UK of Covid, the earth will be an uninhabitable furnace by 2100 etc. The psychological drive underlying all this is well understood. The post-war period generated a great deal of interesting research on the nature of authoritarianism, mass psychology and insights into how otherwise sane cultures like the Germanosphere could descend into hell. All of it is routinely ignored in the mainstream. Seen through the lens of authoritarianism much of what we see around us, from climate alarmism to drag queen reading hour in public libraries, is easily understood as top-down visions that bear no relation to normal life. The visions of a select few who view our unhealthy obsession with privacy, getting on with it and generally living a peaceful life as some horrifying defecit only they… Read more »

John Dee
4 years ago
Reply to  Vaxtastic

Are they ‘madder’ than the norm? Or is it considerably more sociopathic than the norm?
Advocating weekly (or more frequent) shoving of plastic swabs up the nasal cavities of tiny children suggests the latter.

Vaxtastic
4 years ago
Reply to  John Dee

Sociopathy is an inability to empathize with others. It doesn’t necessarily mean they generate crazy ideas to control others. It tends to produce indifference.

But the visions of the Bill Gates types and Klaus Schwab are those with grand visions of how to organize our lives. Plenty of psychopaths in that group of course. But the key element is a break from reality, not just lack of empathy. Plenty of doctors, and especially surgeons, tend towards psychopathic tendencies but generally avoid world domination fantasies.

In a saner world we’d laugh at them.

John Dee
4 years ago
Reply to  Vaxtastic

I agree with that. The ‘lack of empathy’ to which I alluded was that of our political class and their indifference to what is being done to a generation of defenceless (since their parents are unquestioning sheep) children.
Why aren’t these troughers as horrified as I am at what’s being done? Why do none speak out?

FrankFisher
4 years ago
Reply to  John Dee

They applaud it. Look at that Remainer shit Tom Chivers on unherd praising the vaccine deaths of children as a price worth paying for… some fantasy.

Statists, collectivist, authoritarians, all the control freaks, they LOVE the power and death. It will bring forth the paradise on earth.

Vaxtastic
4 years ago
Reply to  John Dee

Some do speak out. Too few of course.

But you answered your own question. The system selects for psychopathic tendencies. It is hard to survive in politics if you genuinely do care.

It should be remembered the indifference of the sociopath is a defecit, a shortcoming, in a similar way that colour blindness is a defecit. Being indifferent helps navigate the human obstacles we all face and helps you climb the greasy pole. But it has huge shortcomings, not the least of which is genuine bafflement as to the behaviour of normals.

The solution, as ever, is to remove government from our lives, not to hope for better candidates. As Milton Friedman once put it the goal is not to get the right candidates but to make the wrong candidates do the right thing.

misslawbore
misslawbore
4 years ago
Reply to  Vaxtastic

Sorry to be pedantic Vaxtastic but please spell deficit correctly

Vaxtastic
4 years ago
Reply to  misslawbore

Lol, good catch.

Beowulf
Beowulf
4 years ago
Reply to  misslawbore

There’s some ‘law’ that states that if you correct someone else’s spelling or grammar you’ll inadvertently make a mistake yourself. Can you spot your’s?

loopDloop
loopDloop
4 years ago
Reply to  Beowulf

Hilariously, whether deliberately or ironically, you confirmed the law! “Your’s” is incorrect.

When you are indicating possession, yours is the correct choice—not your’s. You do not need an apostrophe to indicate possession because yours itself is a possessive pronoun.’

Hopefully I’ve broken the law, but hey, correct me!

FrankFisher
4 years ago

I’m sure you can model the climate, but I’m not sure you can model it successfully when you cannot eliminate the fundamental variability of solar activity.

For me, the biggest problem with the alarmists is that at one point, Romans grew vines against Hadrian’s wall and wore sandals on patrol. A few centuries later Roman squaddies wrote to their mums asking for woolly socks and mountain boots were issued to patrols.

John Dee
4 years ago
Reply to  FrankFisher

Those Ancient Brits must have been hard as nails, running around in only a thin coating of woad.

Aleajactaest
4 years ago

sorry to be a fart in a lift (elevator for our colonial cousins) but the Climatescam (TM), is likely to be a roadmap for where the Covidscam (TM) is likely to head over the next 30 (yes you read correctly) years.

I was a snotty nosed Geology pre-grad who had miraculously secured an interview with Saatchi & Saatchi for a copywriter position in the Big Smoke in 1988.

During the 2 day sesh, we were asked to present a topic of our interest for 20 mins (the usual “can you string a sentence together” tosh) and the Arts grad before me went off on one about anthropogenic global warming (as it was once known after the serial liar James Hansen locked in the Senate and turned off the AC in Washington in July)

He finished his talk and we were invited to ask questions. As I was neck deep in 3rd year Hons Geology and specifically paeleoclimatology at the time, I demolished his premise in five minutes.

Suffice to say, I didn’t get the job.

But the moral of the tale is – that was 34 years ago. Look where we are now.

Vaxtastic
4 years ago
Reply to  Aleajactaest

Ah, you logical thinkers with your dangerous facts. The world is ruled by those who feel their way through life.

Climategeddon satisfies a need. In a secular age where our promised careers are slowly revealed over time to be just mundane jobs many need something to stave off the existential horror of the inherent meaninglessness of life.

Hard facts are hard work for most. Although I suspect you dodged a bullet 34 years ago.

John Dee
4 years ago
Reply to  Aleajactaest

I wonder if the Saatchis attribute the cloudiness that occurred in that shark-tank ‘artwork’ to global warming?

annicx
4 years ago
Reply to  John Dee

Still bemuses me that you can get an actual degree in something like arts or media- they’re just hobbies that for some reason many seem to think someone else, usually ‘the state’, should pay them to do.

annicx
4 years ago
Reply to  Aleajactaest

So you were correct, but lost out to an arts grad who likely has no clue how the real world works despite your knowledge of paeleoclimatology. Sounds about right.

crisisgarden
4 years ago

Not entirely related but kind of also related: found this story so funny this morning – the idea that Whoopi Goldberg has been suspended for two weeks ‘to reflect’ like a naughty child for making some comments about the Holocaust that apparently upset some people. This is the level of infantilisation in cancel culture. And then the celebrity in question invariably accepts that they’re in the wrong, disappears for a while before returning with some nauseating maudlin contrition. So embarrassing; can’t wait for the backlash against this nonsense.

Vaxtastic
4 years ago
Reply to  crisisgarden

Her sin was to mildly suggest that beyond the obvious aspects of the Holocaust narrative there lay a deeper issue, man’s inhumanity to man. A worthy subject, and she is hardly the first to do so (Viktor Frankl being an obvious example).

What it should highlight is the dominance of approved narrative. The enormous resources poured in to presenting a single view of events, and the swift punishment of those who stray from the path.

Easy to get depressed about all this as the last two years of covid nonsense has demonstrated. But we should not overlook how threatened the narrative types are by free speech and open forums. That’s the real lesson. Our world is ruled by the fearful not the courageous.

stewart
4 years ago
Reply to  Vaxtastic

Our world is ruled by the fearful not the courageous.

It all seems to tie together. The devaluation of masculinity. The infantalisation of society. The relentless advance of the state reducing us to Elois. Runaway safetyism.

Faced with the choice between comfort or effortful empowerment, as a society we repeatedly chose comfort. The consequences aren’t good.

Vaxtastic
4 years ago
Reply to  stewart

Great observation. The feminization of society. Or emasculation as you suggest.

I do suspect these things are self correcting over time. Our direction is not sustainable, to coin a phrase.

annicx
4 years ago
Reply to  stewart

But for those of us that see it and refuse to play along the rewards can be vast.

stewart
4 years ago
Reply to  crisisgarden

Didn’t Hannah Arrendt write that totalitarianism eventually devours its own?

crisisgarden
4 years ago
Reply to  stewart

Yes that is what appears to be happening! Also relevant is that brilliant quote attributed to Huey Long in 1936 when he was asked about whether fascism would ever come to America and he said something like “Sure we’ll have it, and it’ll be called anti-fascism.”

loopDloop
loopDloop
4 years ago
Reply to  crisisgarden

Everything is related. Yep, they threw Rosanne under the bus with no second chances for a single tweet. But Whoopi, because she’s on the right side, gets a short time out to reflect then will be welcomed back with open arms.

John Dee
4 years ago
Reply to  crisisgarden

Goldberg did what they all seem now to do: spoke truthfully about what she believed and then apologised for it when she felt threatened.
Since I never feel tempted to watch anything in which she appears, she’s welcome to her weird racial classifications and poor grasp of history.

Mumbo Jumbo
4 years ago
Reply to  crisisgarden

And there was me thinking she was Jewish with a name like hers.

John Dee
4 years ago
Reply to  Mumbo Jumbo

Or related to a ‘fun’ type of cushion?

Free Lemming
4 years ago

It’s highly unlikely that our contribution to the planets climate is a positive one. The question is how significant is any negative contribution. The planet is over 4 billion years old, and we’re trying to predict our impact using less than 100 years worth of data. It’s ridiculous – like picking a single grain of sand from a beach and using that to represent every single other grain of sand on the beach. Bizarrely, this rarely gets mentioned by either side of the argument.

misslawbore
misslawbore
4 years ago
Reply to  Free Lemming

You don’t have to be a scientist to work that out. You do however need to be that rather unfashionable phenomenon nowadays – a Renaissance Thinker

TSull
TSull
4 years ago
Reply to  Free Lemming

Our contribution to the climate, such as it is, is likely to be so small as to be incapable of being reliably measured, particularly when the other contributing variables are so poorly understood, assuming they have even been identified.

huxleypiggles
4 years ago
Reply to  Free Lemming

It’s highly unlikely that our contribution to the planets climate is a positive one.”

Could you flesh this out please? We are mammals with rather large brains. Perhaps our conduct is simply evolutionary? I know that’s a touch radical but contrary opinions should be aired.

annicx
4 years ago
Reply to  Free Lemming

Actually, increasing CO2 from dangerously low levels is quite beneficial.

Westminster68
Westminster68
4 years ago

Small point but might as well get it right. Climategate was in 2009, not 2010.

loopDloop
loopDloop
4 years ago

Climate models are a joke. Been running hot for 30 years, but that’s not the worst of it. The worst of it is they are incompetent in the way they handle errors, and the error bars on the models quickly blow out to the point that it is not just a question of whether this or that model is unreliable: the whole notion of modelling the climate 30 years out is completely untenable. It’s a chaotic system, which means it can’t be predicted, and just because you have a degree in climate science from East Anglia doesn’t somehow render you immune to the inevitable mathematical consequences of chaos. Nor does being a whiny teenage girl somehow negate the effects of chaos. It’s not just that the models are wrong, which they are, it’s that they can never be anything ever of value because they are utterly swamped by the error bars. Now I would add some profanity-laden insult about the Guardian and their readers, but given the restrictions, I’ll limit myself to saying they don’t understand.

TheBluePill
4 years ago
Reply to  loopDloop

I wonder when the modellers are going to release their models for the national lottery machines? Surely that should be somewhat simpler to model than the atmospheric physics, chemistry and chaos of an entire planet (and star).

loopDloop
loopDloop
4 years ago
Reply to  loopDloop

The other howler they make without blushing is the concept of the average model run. So they get 50 model runs, all wrong, then take the average, then act as if that means something. It’s like taking all of SAGE’s insanely wrong predictions, averaging them out, and using that result to direct policy. Pretty much exactly what has happened actually. Our leaders are fools. Then again, so are most of the people being led, so I guess average that all out and you end up with what you’ve got.

TheBluePill
4 years ago
Reply to  loopDloop

Ferguson’s shitty flawed code was so wildly nondeterministic he had to run exactly the same code many times to hope that the errors were smoothed by chance. And if you ran it on a different CPU it would give wildly shifted results again. When he gets sentenced, part of the punishment should be have his index fingers hammered to save us all from his lethal amateur proding at the keyboard.

annicx
4 years ago
Reply to  loopDloop

Pretty concise summary of modern life!

TSull
TSull
4 years ago
Reply to  loopDloop

Any process with a significant stochastic component will have a rapidly widening confidence interval as the forecast horizon increases. As you say, the whole notion is untenable. Not only that, it is ridiculous. It is akin to forecasting a stock market index several decades ahead and using it as the basis for economic policy.

Martillo
Martillo
4 years ago

A sort of homage to a burned out basement dwelling woke and whining dinosaur long past its sell by date as real Canada finally gets off its knees. Meanwhile old Neil young, the very epitome of “the needle and the damage done…”
 
Keep on trucking in the free world
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZUO1L8KcJ0
 
Prezence
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJdz4y85Rjc
 
Sold Man – Curtis Stone and Media Bear:
https://odysee.com/@urbanfarmercstone:0/sold-man-will-self-destruct.-download:2

JayBee
4 years ago

I have played around quite a bit with compounding for financial return studies.
Time shrinks absolute return differences of 100% (1 million vs 2 million) to tenths of a percent CAGr differences after a few decades and multi-century returns in the very, very low single digits would already result in you owning the whole world.
Of course Peterson is correct.

Martillo
Martillo
4 years ago
Reply to  JayBee

now in Ingles por favor

fractaltrader
fractaltrader
4 years ago
Reply to  Martillo

A small change in initial conditions can create a massive difference over even a short compounding period.
1.7 to the power of 20 = c. 40,640
2 to the power of 20 = c. 1,050,000

TheyLiveAndWeLockdown
4 years ago
Reply to  fractaltrader

It’s better to compound the data content which is always less than 1.0 (hopefully more than 0 fergusson excluded) in order to assess the likely exponential error.

huxleypiggles
4 years ago

Right oh.

huxleypiggles
4 years ago
Reply to  JayBee

WTF?

Are you extracting the hide softener?

Martillo
Martillo
4 years ago

Why are smart people stupid like Peterson? There ain’t an App for anything that really matters in this life’s journey from cradle to grave. This is not biological or so-called hybrid war, this is spiritual war as in a war for your soul, if of course you are still one of those that understands man’s place in this vale of tears and the consummate evil of the wolves leading the flock.

https://jermwarfare.com/blog/mattias-desmet

YOU are the disease, their death squirt the cure.

Lockdown Sceptic
4 years ago

Forever Subsidised: America’s Wind & Solar ‘Industries’ Biggest Fear Is Real Competition
https://stopthesethings.com/2022/02/02/forever-subsidised-americas-wind-solar-industries-biggest-fear-is-real-competition/
by stopthesethings 

We need far more people at all our events here  
 if we want the tyranny to end for good 

Thursday 3rd February 5pm 
Silent lighted walk behind one simple sign
“No More Lockdown” 
Bring torches, candles and other lights  
Meet Corner of High Street & Pound Lane 
Marlow SL7 1NF

Stand in the Park Sundays 10am  make friends, ignore the madness & keep sane 
Wokingham Howard Palmer Gardens Cockpit Path car park Sturges Rd RG40 2HD  
Henley Mills Meadows (at the bandstand) Henley-on-Thames RG9 1DS

Telegram Group 
http://t.me/astandintheparkbracknell

TheyLiveAndWeLockdown
4 years ago

that “energy” subsidy goes straight to the land owners and because of the low density of production it’s a LOT of land.

“greenism” is the stealthy welfare state for the establishment.

Johnny B Ad
4 years ago

Yep…

FB_IMG_1643802826632.jpg
TheyLiveAndWeLockdown
4 years ago

The Error is exponential, slightly wrong data in * slightly wrong model (loop out To In a few times) = garbage out.

if you represent 100% as 1 and say your model and data were 90% accurate (which is vastly better than reality)
and you go 7 days/loops ahead
0.9^7 = 0.47

i.e. more than half the “data” is error!

Liberty4UK
Liberty4UK
4 years ago

Since volcanoes create far more of the gases they are concerned about than humans ever can I suggest that the leading climate worriers and those who finance them go to those areas likely to erupt soon and attempt to stop them/plug them, and use their persistence and deep conviction to stay there until the job is completely done I can see enormous benefit for humanity in this.

Cristi.Neagu
4 years ago

For what it’s worth, I think climate can be modelled. I think it has been modelled, to some degree of accuracy. It’s just that those models are not public. The models we are being shown are tuned for one specific purpose: mass hysteria. The real models probably show something very different: The world is about to start cooling down in the next decade or so. They know this and they’re getting desperate. They need to implement various measures such that when the climate starts cooling naturally, they can claim it was all because of climate action. Just like Columbus fooled some primitive natives by predicting a lunar eclipse using well understood charts that the natives had no idea about.

ChrisW
ChrisW
4 years ago
Reply to  Cristi.Neagu

Just like they introduced lockdowns when they knew infections had already peaked, so they could take the credit.

John001
John001
4 years ago
Reply to  Cristi.Neagu

They probably show more disagreement than anyone is comfortable with admitting publicly. That’s all. Think of it as Piers Corbyn at one extreme, the Met Office at the other end of a huge range, together with many in between.

Liberty4UK
Liberty4UK
4 years ago
Reply to  Cristi.Neagu

I wondered about that when I came across plans to make large amounts of land uninhabitable/re-wilded, and crowd (fewer) people into smart cities (“Global warming; An inconvenient lie”). That, and all the rest of it seemed to be a desire for a much smaller (and selected) community to weather out the cold, not the heat.

huxleypiggles
4 years ago

That’s a wonderfully informed and irreverent demolition job. Thanks very much.

shaft12
shaft12
4 years ago

The Guardian ran an article on it. The comments were lamentable.  He (Peterson) makes rather clear and well established points, which John Maynard Keynes and Frank Knight made and argued with Frank Ramsay and Jimmie Savage. It was then picked up by Milton Friedman. It centred around the issue of ‘radical uncertainty’ and the idea that complex calculations of probabilistic reasoning could be applied to big world problems to predict what would happen.  John Kay and Mervyn King wrote a book of the same name ‘Radical Uncertainty’ , which documents the development of these theories and their refutation. Ultimately they argue that probabilistic models are severely limited, can only be used in small world (non real world) applications, because there are too many variables and feedback loops in real world problems. The factors of calculation soon become analogous to the story of the rice and the chessboard. They critique (and remember this is the former governer of the BoE) the use of statistical modelling because in modern use it is a tool to justify decisions which have already been made. An backside covering exercise by CEOs and Policymakers alike, who task a modeller to create evidence which can be used,… Read more »

Peter W
Peter W
4 years ago

We can’t even get a basic weather forecast for more than a few days ahead using dedicated super computers. A week, maybe, for Jetstream forecasts. There are so any variables plus the butterfly effect that it is currently (always) beyond our human modelling.
Climate modelling is going to be as unpredictable plus the fact that we really don’t know the true effect of CO2 on the climate.
Hubris to think otherwise.