Italian Man Attempts to Fool Vaccine Mandate by Wearing Fake Arm

On Monday, the Italian Government will introduce a ‘super green pass’ system, where those wishing to enter a wide variety of public places must provide proof that they have been vaccinated (or have recently recovered from Covid), replacing the ‘green pass’ policy which permits the unvaccinated into these spaces if they produce a negative Covid test. The incoming law is believed to be the reason for why a middle aged Italian man wished to acquire a Covid vaccination certificate but not receive the injection, placing a fake silicone mould on his arm as a disguise. However, a nurse noticed the trick, and reported the man to the police. BBC News has more.

An Italian man who wanted a Covid vaccination certificate without getting the jab turned up for his vaccine with a fake arm, officials say.

The man, in his 50s, arrived for his shot with a silicone mould covering his real arm, hoping it would go unnoticed.

But a nurse was not fooled and the man has now been reported to the police.

The nurse told local media that when she had rolled up his sleeve, she found the skin “rubbery and cold” and the pigment “too light”.

After being discovered, the man tried to persuade the nurse to turn a blind eye, la Repubblica reported. But instead she reported him to the police for fraud.

Local police are now investigating the incident in Biella, north-west Italy, and local officials have criticised the man’s actions.

“The case borders on the ridiculous, if it were not for the fact we are talking about a gesture of enormous gravity,” the head of the Piedmont regional Government, Albert Cirio, said in a statement on Facebook.

He said the ploy was “unacceptable faced with the sacrifice that our entire community has paid during the pandemic, in terms of human lives, the social and economic cost”.

La Repubblica suggests the incident may not have been a one-off, pointing to a message on social media that may have been written by the man.

The Twitter post quoted by the paper featured a silicone male chest half-body suit, complete with fake arms and neck, that was on sale on Amazon for €488 (£416).

“If I go with this, will they notice? Maybe beneath the silicone I’ll even put on some extra clothes to avoid the needle reaching my real arm,” the Twitter user reportedly wrote.

The incident comes ahead of a tightening of the rules in Italy for those who have not been vaccinated.

Since August, Italians have needed a Covid ‘green pass’ showing proof of vaccination, a negative test or recovery from the virus to access train stations, cinemas, restaurants, gyms and swimming pools.

But from Monday, these activities will be restricted to those with a ‘super green pass’, which is only available to those who have been vaccinated or recently recovered from Covid.

Worth reading in full.

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Rowan
Rowan
4 years ago

The nurse, who was clever enough to spot a fake arm, is apparently not clever enough to work out that he/she is killing scores of people, day in and day out.

George L
4 years ago
Reply to  Rowan

Exactly.. and her time will come..

TruthHurts2077
4 years ago

Fake arm & fake vaccine! What’s the problem? Top marks for ingenuity! Bet the nurse who grassed him up was proud!

Richard Austin
Richard Austin
4 years ago
Reply to  TruthHurts2077

Probably got an award

Milo
Milo
4 years ago
Reply to  TruthHurts2077

looks like quite a good arm. Might search online to see where I could source myself one of those in case push comes to shove…..

PoshPanic
4 years ago

I’m not sure whether to laugh or cry at this story. On the one hand ( boom, boom! ), it’s hilarious the level of cunning involved, but on the other, the fact people are having to go to these lengths to avoid experimental medicine is depressing.
I suppose he thought there’s no arm in trying.

Boomer Bloke
4 years ago
Reply to  PoshPanic

And then the nurse fingered him. They need to get a grip.

Simon Platt
Simon Platt
4 years ago

Full marks for effort.

Dermot McClatchey
4 years ago
Reply to  Simon Platt

Evening, Simon! How long have Hugh been posting on here?

Simon Platt
Simon Platt
4 years ago

Not long. Less than a week.

Dermot McClatchey
4 years ago
Reply to  Simon Platt

Well- see what you make of’t. At least on here I can give full reign to my propensity for carefully-calibrated Shavian expletive. I think there’s at least one more of us on this site. There seems to be less overt trollery on here, but a certain amount of brainless downticking.

8bit
8bit
4 years ago

In the USA this would be protected by the second amendment: “the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”

loopDloop
loopDloop
4 years ago
Reply to  8bit

We have a winner.

crisisgarden
4 years ago
Reply to  8bit

🥳 Congratulations!

Annie
4 years ago
Reply to  8bit

👏

BS665
BS665
4 years ago
Reply to  8bit

Heh heh heh he he… 😁

Anonymous
Anonymous
4 years ago
Reply to  8bit

ROTFWL!

loopDloop
loopDloop
4 years ago

I’ve been doing this for years, replaced my body with a plastic version. No one noticed.

amanuensis
4 years ago

What’s amazing about this story is that the masses aren’t asking themselves why someone would go to these efforts to avoid getting the vaccine.

This person isn’t simply scared of needles or merely hesitant or whatever the pro-vaccine masses think is going on with those avoiding being vaccinated — this person did their own risk:benefit analysis and decided that not only was there a net risk, but that it was worth going to extreme efforts to avoid the risks that the vaccines hold.

Trabant
4 years ago
Reply to  amanuensis

Exactly.

Trabant
4 years ago

To be honest I’d also thought about doing this. Shame the guy got grassed up. Still, no arm done. And at least he’s armless now.

BS665
BS665
4 years ago
Reply to  Trabant

Classic 😁

Annie
4 years ago
Reply to  Trabant

Nay, a one-armed banned it,

BS665
BS665
4 years ago
Reply to  Annie

🙄…. .. . 😂😂😂

Trabant
4 years ago
Reply to  Annie

Nice 😊

Star
4 years ago

Wonderful, isn’t it, how the BBC tells us the man was “reported to the police”. Is there reason to believe he may have broken the law? Which law? Will he be arrested and charged if so? And if he pleads guilty or is found guilty at trial, what sentence might he receive? These questions sound trite, but are the legal principles to which I’m alluding getting completely forgotten? Perhaps one of the hospital directors should send some “security” around to the guy’s house to introduce an iron bar to his kneecaps. I mean after all, he’s shown insufficient “respect”, as Sajid “Thug” Javid would put it.

Similarly one can remark on the ludicrousness of the position in Germany where the SPD and Greens are about to take over from the CDU as parties of government, under a new chancellor, and yet it’s the current chancellor, leader of the outgoing government, who almost goes as far as acting for the new government by suggesting there’s going to be a law requiring compulsory vaccination! Can anybody think of a precedent for that? What’s a “political party” nowadays? They all seem to be acting in concert as arms of the state.

Emerald Fox
4 years ago
Reply to  Star

” Sajid “Thug” Javid “

“Thug comes from the Hindi thuggee ; it is derived from the word ṭhag, which means “deceiver” or “thief” or “swindler.” The Thugs, in India, were a gang of professional thieves and assassins who operated from the 14th century and into the 19th. “

Aren’t bankers ‘professional thieves’?

crisisgarden
4 years ago
Reply to  Emerald Fox

They are, and the elephant in the room is that western political leaders have gradually been replaced by bankers. I believe this tells us all we need to know.

milesahead
milesahead
4 years ago
Reply to  crisisgarden

‘bankers’. I assume that’s a typo?

BS665
BS665
4 years ago
Reply to  Star

The ‘SS Dentists’ are coming back. Politicised health ‘care’ for all. Experi-mental medicine, the cutting edge.

RW
RW
4 years ago
Reply to  Star

Merkel has been trying very hard to bully the upcoming government into maintaining her Corona policy unchanged. If she had any integrity, that’s something she shouldn’t have been doing as running the German government is no longer her job.

ellie-em
4 years ago
Reply to  RW

Merkel, like many leaders inflicted on the world, has no integrity and is emulating the noxious, interfering Blair.

crisisgarden
4 years ago
Reply to  Star

A very pertinent question and observation. There seems to have been legislation brought in under the various coronavirus emergency measures around the world that relate to potentially causing potential harm to others through potential infection.
I still think, zooming out a bit, that what they’re really doing is gearing up to control western populations through an economic collapse and hyperinflation. But that’s just a pet theory and it’s slightly less terrifying than digital panopticon and new world order.

caipirinha17
caipirinha17
4 years ago
Reply to  crisisgarden

I’m thinking exactly the same thing. All those climate policies require the public to relinquish their possessions so that the country can be levelled and rebuilt however they choose. If they create hyperinflation people will happily hand over their houses/cars in return for a month or two food supply (food banks anyone?). Ready made workforce available for the rebuild since everyone will be out of a job and the old/vulnerable exterminated or starved to death. Wonderful vision of the future there.

CynicalRealist
4 years ago
Reply to  Star

And not only was he reported, but:

Local police are now investigating the incident in Biella

Has Plod really got nothing better to do with his time?

crisisgarden
4 years ago

I have to admit to having had this idea some time ago 😭

Trabant
4 years ago
Reply to  crisisgarden

Yes me too

Star
4 years ago

“‘The case borders on the ridiculous, if it were not for the fact we are talking about a gesture of enormous gravity,’ the head of the Piedmont regional Government, Albert Cirio, said in a statement on Facebook.

Let me rephrase that.

“‘The case would almost be a storm in a teacup, the smallest mousehill in the entire world, except for the fact that it’s the most serious and gravely mountainous matter I’ve ever encountered in my entire life,’ said the leader of the provincial government in a declaration he pinned to the Donald Duck noticeboard, a service run by a US-based advertising company for its ‘Retard Club’.”

BS665
BS665
4 years ago
Reply to  Star

Those arms… fake… fake. Arms. The antivaxxers… arms they take up. Arms dammit 😜

NeilofWatford
4 years ago

Sounds armless to me.
Tee hee.

Moderate Radical
4 years ago
Reply to  NeilofWatford

Nice one. I’ve gotta hand it to ya…

Jonny S.
4 years ago

The nurse was only sticking to the hyppocratic oath.

First do no arm.

Trabant
4 years ago
Reply to  Jonny S.

Class 👍😂

BS665
BS665
4 years ago

The ancients had a song… arma virumque cano! We should get his name and pen a resistance ballad😂

I am Spartacas
4 years ago

..

FFkdBGzXoAAqOjf.jpg
zners
zners
4 years ago

haha this is great but you’re still prescribing to the passport!! Not good!

rayc
rayc
4 years ago

The real question is: was he then jabbed in the real arm as a due punishment?

kate
kate
4 years ago

From Mike Yeadon’s Telegram page.https://t.me/s/robinmg
Post Pandemic Stress Disorder Covers up Vaccine Injuries
Mysterious “PPSD” causing blood clots and embolisms
“PPSD, as a cause of somatic (bodily) disease, is entirely fictional. While, I am sure, people are suffering under unnecessary lockdowns or media induced fear frenzy, or gain weight, it cannot cause pulmonary embolisms, blood clots, etc.
So let me ask a question: do unvaccinated people also die at a higher rate from “pulmonary embolisms”, “blood clots” etc? Or does this “PPSD” mysteriously affect only the vaccinated Brits? Do PPSD problems spike after a booster shot?
Will they be saying soon in 6 months, that “PPSD” causes rare and aggressive cancers?”
https://igorchudov.substack.com/p/post-pandemic-stress-disorder-covers

Backlash
Backlash
4 years ago

That picture’s no good, doesn’t the clot shot go into the upper arm?

Milo
Milo
4 years ago
Reply to  Backlash

yeah if you are going down the fake arm route you would want a prosthetic with a really pronounced deltoid muscle.

kate
kate
4 years ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGFdWcJU7-0&ab_channel=UnHerd
Freddie Sayers UNherd. Howard Springs camp.
This young woman was incarcerated in the camp for two weeks and threatened with a $500 fine even though she tested negative repeatedly.
When she enquired about this she was told by the Australian CDC it was probably “punishment” for lying to the authorities about having taken a test, when she had not. She never tested positive, but was locked up for 14 days and lost her job

kate
kate
4 years ago
Reply to  kate

From Telegram: I was speaking to a fellow human rights lawyer from Japan last night. She asked me, “are they really transporting people into detention simply for being close contacts?” I told her that it is even worse than that – that the judgment call on whether somebody should be taken to a quarantine facility is an arbitrary one, based on loose and dangerous criteria such as whether that person is ‘likely to cause a risk’ if they aren’t locked up. It doesn’t matter if the ‘close contact’ tests negative, even multiple times (like most of Australia’s Covid measures, it’s not actually about whether people are sick, or contagious). There is also no defined limit to the quarantine period. In NSW, where a personalised “public health order” lasts for 14 days, a new one can be issued ad hoc at the end of that period, again and again. I have spoken to people who were in quarantine for 2 months, despite repeatedly testing negative, and despite repeatedly suggesting alternative places they could isolate. One of these people, a young Sudanese mother who I am assisting with claims for false imprisonment and racial discrimination (arbitrary criteria such as ‘likely to cause… Read more »

kate
kate
4 years ago
Reply to  kate

https://twitter.com/freddiesayers/status/1466842632806666242

Slightly depressed that this story is being covered by “right wing” channels all over the world but not a peep from BBC/Guardian/NYT et al.

Where’s the outrage about the shredding of due process, arbitrary detention, everything you’ve been championing for years?

Milo
Milo
4 years ago
Reply to  kate

and we have [or at least did have] similar language in the Covid Act.

Funny that that type of legislative provision proliferated all around the world at the same time.

Almost as if all the governments had been issued with the same script to stick to…..

kate
kate
4 years ago

Some better news…
High Court judgement ruled in favour of Dr Sam White @JusticeforDrSW
who should not only be able to return to work as a GP but the freedom to challenge and criticise flawed covid policies is now assured.
Congratulations @Francis_Hoar

crisisgarden
4 years ago
Reply to  kate

That’s wonderful new thanks for sharing!

Anti_socialist
4 years ago
Reply to  kate

What’s the source?

kate
kate
4 years ago
Reply to  Anti_socialist

https://twitter.com/DrTeckKhong/status/1466812496153649158?t=S8jAmn9COUMyKJc5QYoRPA&s=19

High Court judgement ruled in favour of Dr Sam White @JusticeforDrSW
who should not only be able to return to work as a GP but the freedom to challenge and criticise flawed covid policies is now assured.

Congratulations @Francis_Hoar

kate
kate
4 years ago

https://t.me/s/robinmg
Official UK Government document admits a High Percentage of all Hospitalised Children are Suffering Myocarditis due to the Covid Injections

It is long overdue but, finally, on 29 November the UK Health Security Agency (“UKHSA”) recognised cardiac disorders are a risk of Covid injections. UKHSA issued clinical guidance to support the detection and management of clinical cases of myocarditis and pericarditis associated with Covid injections. In particular for children and people aged under 40.

https://dailyexpose.uk/2021/12/03/uk-government-guidance-admits-high-percentage-of-all-hospitalised-children-are-suffering-myocarditis-due-to-covid-injections/

“myocarditis – significant left ventricular (LV) fibrosis has been described in a high percentage of children admitted to hospital”
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/myocarditis-and-pericarditis-after-covid-19-vaccination/myocarditis-and-pericarditis-after-covid-19-vaccination-guidance-for-healthcare-professionals

Milo
Milo
4 years ago
Reply to  kate

I posted about this yesterday – even GB News journo was describing the myocarditis as “mild”, nothing to worry about and don’t let it put you off getting your all important jab.

isobar
4 years ago

Had to come – no surprise!

SAGE calls for WFH and vaccine passports in face of Omicron wave and warns variant is capable of triggering ‘similar or even larger’ surge in cases but admits jury’s still out on jab escape — with Brits told to expect five more years of Covid misery

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10272001/SAGE-calls-WFH-vaccine-passports-face-Omicron-wave.html

CynicalRealist
4 years ago
Reply to  isobar

What a surprise! This odious cabal is desperate to retain its influence, and clearly sees droning on about re-imposing the same vicious and useless measures that didn’t work previously as the way to do this.

At least the commenters on the DM seem to mostly see straight through the bullshit, which is at least something encouraging!

Milo
Milo
4 years ago
Reply to  CynicalRealist

but the editorial seems not to be influenced by the commenters no matter how much they can see through the charade.

kate
kate
4 years ago

https://www.wnd.com/2021/12/vaccine-inventor-fundamentally-evil-covid-policies-harming-children/

In a wide-ranging video interview with WND, the vaccine researcher who invented the messenger RNA technology behind the Pfizer and Moderna shots explained why he opposes universal vaccination for the COVID-19 virus and why he’s been willing to risk the reputation he’s cultivated over three decades and weather the scorn of the government and health-care establishment.

kate
kate
4 years ago

THREE ABORIGINAL TEENS ARRESTED AFTER ESCAPING FROM QUARANTINE FACILITY IN AUSTRALIA

“According to the Australian Broadcasting Corporation (ABC), the three teens from the Binjari community near Katherine, aged 15, 16 and 17, tested negative for the virus yesterday. They had been confined to quarantine for being ‘close contacts of positive cases,’ only to scale a fence and escape at 4:30 am Wednesday morning.”

https://wearechange.org/three-aboriginal-teens-arrested-after-escaping-from-quarantine-facility-in-australia/

BS665
BS665
4 years ago

O come on. It’s not as he though was attacking the doctor… Riccardo Kimble 😎

BS665
BS665
4 years ago
Reply to  BS665

The Fugitive, people! The Fugitive!

RickH
4 years ago

OK. We can rehearse all the obvious.

But what really worries me is that anyone who can’t by now see through the ‘vaccine’ myth is really, really and truly hypnotized (as in a Derren Brown performance). The narrative about an ineffective leaky vaccine for a viral non-event is so obviously sheer nonsense, that we are way,way beyond any rational thinking process.

I have never been a pessimist, but after this time of concentrated evil, I am at a loss to identify any method of breaking through this carapace of hypnotism into the real world.

And that is entirely depressing.

rayc
rayc
4 years ago
Reply to  RickH

Maybe you can break the news to 4797 patients in German ICU today (2564 on ventilators) that they are just having a viral non-event.

milesahead
milesahead
4 years ago
Reply to  rayc

I expect the majority have been double or treble jabbed.

Putting Covid patients on a respirator is also tantamount to a death sentence most of the time; Ivermectin would cure most of them (as Japan has demonstrated), but that would destroy the narrative, so people have to continue to die needlessly.

rayc
rayc
4 years ago
Reply to  milesahead

You expect wrong, of course. The number of admissions of the unvaccinated to hospitals is at this time 5x higher than the number of admissions of vaccinated (in Germany).

And even if it was the other way around, it does not change the fact that we are not dealing with a “viral non-event”, we are dealing with overflowing ICUs and people dying there from a (relatively) new virus.

As for your advertising of quackery (ivermectin), I refer you to articles on swprs.org. They used to be fans in the beginning, too, now they admit the initial studies were all fabricated or screwed up. The only thing Ivermectin can do is fill up pockets of the charlatans who peddle it.

mishmash
4 years ago
Reply to  rayc

Please can you link to that data?
Also, UK and Germany jab rates are similar, so why are more unvaccinated being hospitalised in Germany than UK where the opposite is true?

rayc
rayc
4 years ago
Reply to  mishmash

https://www.divi.de/joomlatools-files/docman-files/divi-intensivregister-tagesreports/DIVI-Intensivregister_Tagesreport_2021_12_03.pdf

https://www.rki.de/DE/Content/InfAZ/N/Neuartiges_Coronavirus/Situationsberichte/Wochenbericht/Wochenbericht_2021-11-18.pdf

Why are more unvaccinated being hospitalised? Nobody knows really, but I suspect it is because Germany has not had previous surges on the scale of UK. So burning through dry tinder basically.

mishmash
4 years ago
Reply to  rayc

.

Anti_socialist
4 years ago
Reply to  rayc

There maybe something in that, they boasted about the first season being mild because of their wonderful health service, but viruses will be viruses, it’s going to catch up with you eventually, vaccine or no vaccine.

mishmash
4 years ago
Reply to  rayc

According to your cited data “Ungeimpfte = Bevölkerungszahl abzüglich einmal geimpfter Personen” (Unvaccinated = population minus once vaccinated persons) but does that mean once vaccinated J&J or the others?
As I understand it, in Germany you’re only considered ‘fully vaccinated’ if you’ve had 2 doses of the Pfizer/Moderna/Astra jab or 1 dose of the J&J jab.
If you’ve only had 1 dose of anything other than J&J you are classed as ‘unvaccinated’
Also, if you require hospitalisation within 14 days of the injection date you are classed as ‘unvaccinated’ like you are in the UK.
How many of those German ICU beds are vaccine adverse reactions from single doses and within 2 weeks of being injected?

Julian
4 years ago
Reply to  rayc

Did Rick H say that no-one every gets seriously ill from respiratory viruses? I don’t see where he said that. What he meant by “viral non-event” is pretty obvious if you’ve ever read any of his posts, which I know you have, and you are intelligent, so you cannot claim ignorance. He meant that covid is not an exceptional event at a societal level that warrants the extreme interventions (all of which have been futile and damaging) and mass vaccination of the healthy and not vulnerable to covid with an experimental vaccine that doesn’t appear to work very well.

rayc
rayc
4 years ago
Reply to  Julian

Yes, he implied that by calling covid a “viral non-event”, i.e. no worse than any other previously known respiratory virus, one would suppose. He is obviously and undeniably wrong about that. And, what an irony, telling other people about how they are “hypnotized”.

As for whether it warrants extraordinary measures – I’d say when hospitals stop accepting new patients because they cannot handle the inflow of the current ones, it’s quite an extraordinary situation, wouldn’t you say? When would you like protective measures to be taken, when dead bodies start piling up on the street?

Julian
4 years ago
Reply to  rayc

Well I will let Rick H answer, if he feels like it, but what I think is that while it may be “worse” than, for example, the flu since maybe the pandemics of late 50s and 60s, it is not exceptional enough to warrant the measures we’ve seen. As for dead bodies piling up in the street, we’ve not really seen that, have we, despite lots of countries not implementing the mad stuff we’ve had here and elsewhere.

rayc
rayc
4 years ago
Reply to  Julian

Another question for you: what do you think happens when a hospital is full, you do not take any measures, and more patients arrive at its door?

CynicalRealist
4 years ago
Reply to  rayc

They send them to another hospital – it’s hardly uncommon even in a normal winter.

And before you claim that the hospitals might all get full, that scarmongering claim has been aired repeatedly over the past 18 months and hasn’t happened yet.

rayc
rayc
4 years ago
Reply to  CynicalRealist

Maybe it has not happened because preventive measures have been undertaken (or simply people got scared and started caring near a breaking point and actually following the isolation guidelines, which is a more plausible explanation). The point is, as a capacity manager, you do not wish to play Russian roulette, you want to maintain emergency spare capacity so that keyboard warriors like you can philosophize about what would or would not have happened. As a little mental exercise, put yourself in position of people actually making these decisions. Would you like to risk families of some dead people going after you because your guess got unlucky?

CynicalRealist
4 years ago
Reply to  rayc

Have you seen those reports of all hospitals being full and overflowing in Sweden, Florida, Texas, etc? (i.e. places which haven’t bought into the restriction paranoia). No, me neither!

So by your “logic” it’s fine to impose massive social damage just in case something happens which has never happened and shows no sign of happening – and which, if it were to happen, is very unlikely to be affected at all by the draconian measures anyway given that the stats from around the world clearly show no correlation whatsoever between the level of restrictions and any measurable outcomes.

rayc
rayc
4 years ago
Reply to  CynicalRealist

I have seen Bergamo, New York, Los Angeles, India…

milesahead
milesahead
4 years ago
Reply to  rayc

Uttar Pradesh in India – Ivermectin succeeded in wiping out Covid.

rayc
rayc
4 years ago
Reply to  milesahead

Or maybe drinking cow piss from baba Kumar succeeded in wiping out Covid. That’s how verified these ivermectin claims are.

rayc
rayc
4 years ago
Reply to  CynicalRealist

No, it is not fine to impose radical restrictions “just in case”, they need to be proportional to the current risk. Downtalking the risk and pretending “nothing ever can happen” or “everything is fine, it’s just 42% of beds taken by covid patients, nothing to talk about really” is just as stupid. Actually, it is a new level of imbecilism never seen before even on the Internet.

CynicalRealist
4 years ago
Reply to  rayc

So can you clarify the point of the measures, given that there is no evidence whatsoever of them having any impact, wherever they have been tried?

rayc
rayc
4 years ago
Reply to  CynicalRealist

The point of measures is to put a brake on the infection rate when things start getting out of hand.

You cannot dispute that people who stay alone without contact with other people cannot possibly infect them or get infected. That’s a working measure.

My stance is that these this self-isolation should be applied, when time comes, by every responsible individual, without any involvement from politics or law enforcement.

But you can see how well this “individual responsibility” approach works out when you have people who are outright reality deniers or actively working to sabotage society during a crisis situation.

I do not claim to have a solution for all this, all I can say is that it is not a simple black-or-white us-vs-them situation, and that pretending so is rather contrived/dumb.

CynicalRealist
4 years ago
Reply to  rayc

The point of measures is to put a brake on the infection rate when things start getting out of hand.

You cannot dispute that people who stay alone without contact with other people cannot possibly infect them or get infected. That’s a working measure.

Afraid you can dispute it as the stats show no evidence of it making any practical difference in reality. Various reasons have been put forward for this, including the impossibility of complete lockdowns, the increase it causes in domestic contact, and (probably most importantly) the fact that hospitals and nursing homes are major sources of spread, particularly among those most likely to become seriously ill, and lockdowns make absolutely no difference to them – once it gets in, which it will, it spreads rapidly.

Jez Hewitt
4 years ago
Reply to  rayc

No it isn’t. The point is it would be far less costly to the public purse, health and the economy if capacity was increased and everyone was left the fuck alone.

Are you seriously suggesting we should all be hermetically sealed in until this virus that they can’t even properly test for has passed?

Folk may balk at the cold hearted suggestion of survival of the fittest but the stark reality is that’s what it’s gonna come down to. And I ain’t talking about some flu like virus.

Jez Hewitt
4 years ago
Reply to  rayc

It’s got fuck all on the risk you vaccine peddlers run when it comes to my family. I’ll see you all in hell.

Steve-Devon
4 years ago
Reply to  rayc

In the UK it is why they invented Nightingale hospitals. Any National Health Service should have a workable plan to deal with unexpected surges. The NHS has a budget of around £175 billion some of that should be used on contingency planning for things like covid surges.

rayc
rayc
4 years ago
Reply to  Steve-Devon

Imagine there are some problems in the world that money can’t solve.

CynicalRealist
4 years ago
Reply to  Steve-Devon

The Nightingale hospitals were ‘being seen to be doing something’ – they didn’t have enough staff to actually use them.

Steve-Devon
4 years ago
Reply to  rayc

In 1950 the UK had 28,000 TB patients in TB sanatoriums and the NHS was not overwhelmed. The failure of health services to cope with covid is a measure of the failure of health services to deliver dynamic flexible health care.
I completely refute the idea that our freedoms are there to be traded against the state of the Health Service. If the hospitals are struggling then kick the health service management not the people.

rayc
rayc
4 years ago
Reply to  Steve-Devon

It does not matter what happened in 1950, or who is to blame for the capacity problems. What matters is what is happening now, and how to avoid it getting worse in the short run. To hire an army of medical staff who remain on standby in case the pandemic worsens would probably not be the greatest solution either – and depending on the virus it does not take all that much of a worsening to overwhelm such an army either. (The worst case scenario would be the doctors succumbing to the disease they are supposed to treat – which was happening to some extent in the early stages of this covid pandemic.)

BS665
BS665
4 years ago
Reply to  rayc

Rayc, I have a question: what exactly is your position on the ‘pandemic’, vaccines, masks, the whole shebbang. What are you for and against? I am genuinely interested. Only, it can be hard to tell where you are coming from, which makes it harder for us to debate these issues.

milesahead
milesahead
4 years ago
Reply to  BS665

He’s a troll – half the time he pretends to be a sceptic, but then he reveals his true pro-vax stance. I’m ignoring him from this point on.

rayc
rayc
4 years ago
Reply to  milesahead

Yeah, you’re welcome to lock yourself in your simple echo chamber if that makes you more comfortable and “sceptical”.

rayc
rayc
4 years ago
Reply to  BS665

Pro vaccination of (older) adults, against vaccination of kids, against most restrictions (esp. vaxx passports), and against bullshit and exaggeration from both “camps”.

BS665
BS665
4 years ago
Reply to  rayc

Okay, I can accept that. Are the vaccines safe for the old, but not for children, in your view? What about the 16-65s shall we say: if double jabbed why are so many falling ill? Finally, are you against compulsory vaccinations?

rayc
rayc
4 years ago
Reply to  BS665

They are a lesser evil (than risking infection) for the old, and unnecessary for children. Why are so many falling ill? Mostly because of waning efficacy, but also because people who got vaccinated are more likely to engage in risky behaviors (and were even encouraged to do so by governments). No silver bullet.

And certainly I am against compulsory vaccinations for this particular disease. I think insurance companies should be able to calculate the risk and treat the risk takers accordingly, quite similar to how you must buy an extra insurance if you are privately insured and want to participate in extreme sports.

BS665
BS665
4 years ago
Reply to  rayc

Fine. But can’t you see how taking more and more vaccines is utterly bonkers? Isn’t it better for people to take their own risk and take a vaccine only voluntarily (without coercion, propaganda, fines, camps, etc.)?

If you aren’t a troll, you are certainly refreshingly trenchant. Unfortunately, this is the kind of attitude I tend to lapse into when passionate about a topic – with an embarrassing tendency to cuss my ‘opponents’ down. Then I have to apologise later. Not suggesting you need to, just maybe bear in mind the varying levels of tolerance in the ‘brethren’ shall we say 😉

Judy Watson
Judy Watson
4 years ago
Reply to  rayc

I live in a country where all health care has to be paid for, either by insurance or just paying at the point service.

When this whole debacle began I( signed up for ‘covid’ insurance, I am insured for 2,500 pounds and it cost me just under 20 pounds for one year. This is from a reputable insurance company and is not a scam.

I reckon that the actuaries have worked out the sums and are therefore making a fat profit from this.

Ivermectin is used here as a first-line treatment.

Jez Hewitt
4 years ago
Reply to  rayc

And perhaps those that fancy the risk should be able to get on with their lives while those that don’t can stay on or behind the sofa.

Jez Hewitt
4 years ago
Reply to  rayc

Prick. The irony is we haven’t seen any dead bodies in the street. We’ve seen one after being vaccinated though.

Peddling your horseshit the way you do, go get your booster like a good little boy, do us all a favour.

Steve-Devon
4 years ago
Reply to  rayc

2564 out of a population of 83 million so 0.003% of population on ventilators sad for them but surely hardly a blip for a population of that size?

rayc
rayc
4 years ago
Reply to  Steve-Devon

It’s not a blip because other people cannot be treated because of the ICU capacity being exhausted. Imagine having an accident and being rejected treatment because there is no staff / no beds available. Would you then say it is a non-issue because after all 99.997% of the huge population did not have an accident on that day? Or would you maybe sue the state for not providing healthcare to you? I mean, seriously, people, how far away from the ground reality are you? Have you lost the ability to recognize most obvious bullshit in your own arguments? Or are you trolling onward on purpose just to reassure yourselves everything is fine?

milesahead
milesahead
4 years ago
Reply to  rayc

Just PO and take your boosters.

rayc
rayc
4 years ago
Reply to  milesahead

Off-topic – whether I take boosters or not has nothing to do with the invalidity of RickH’s argument.

Moderate Radical
4 years ago
Reply to  rayc

That’s ironic, since your initial response has nothing to do with RickH’s argument. Are you dense?

George L
4 years ago
Reply to  rayc

There’s only one troll here mate and that’s you..

I’ve noticed your technique. You put out a few sceptical/critical posts that draw people into trusting you, and then you come out with the crap void of any believable data..

You’ve been rumbled..

You’re a troll.. not to be trusted..

BS665
BS665
4 years ago
Reply to  George L

George, he probably is. Possibly a collective of suchlike. But he seems too off-the-cuff to be reading off a script.

No hard feelings from earlier, I hope 🙂

George L
4 years ago
Reply to  BS665

Oh he’s slick alright, I give him that, but his method is as plain as day.

Re the other stuff.. no problem.. this isn’t really the platform for that, its too deep..

rayc
rayc
4 years ago
Reply to  George L

You’ve cracked the case, Sherlock, now did you have anything else to reveal to us?

For everyone else, I would rather be perceived as a “troll” by numbskulls than a “believer” by reasonable folks.

George L
4 years ago
Reply to  rayc

Just revealed it.. you’re a troll..

Ritchie2
4 years ago
Reply to  rayc

I must say, whilst I disagree with some of what you have said. I suggest your viewpoint is exactly the moderate scepticism that we should be encouraging.

Many here are so far down the sceptic/conspiracy rabbit hole that they will not tolerate anything other than the same opinions. This kind of extreme viewpoint is exactly what drives the average punter away, the exact people that we need on our side.

My own viewpoint is that Covid is a moderate to strong version of the Flu, vaccination is an important tool for those with underlying condition or of old age. Vaccination of under 40’s however does not make sense, particularly now transmission is unaffected by vaccination. Lockdowns are of course idiotic and damaging along with all NPI’s, however I do agree that isolating people from each other must have a reducing effect in terms of transmission and likely has helped in terms of reducing pressure on hospitals, although the NHS is a creaking mess at the best of times.

Jez Hewitt
4 years ago
Reply to  Ritchie2

When is the penny gonna drop? If one is susceptible to this alleged virus, it’s gonna get you, whether that’s tomorrow, next month, next year or whenever.

The NHS hasn’t had an easy winter for over a decade and fuck all has been done about it. TPTB simply don’t give a shit.

The problem is anyone with a contrary view on the narrative is labelled a denier, a conspiracy theorist, so most folk are gonna toe the line and we’re gonna sleep walk into hell on earth.

I’m embarrassed that I’ve brought children into this world only to discover they’re surrounded by foolish, easily led and brainwashed cowards.

RW
RW
4 years ago
Reply to  rayc

Maybe, you could try to explain to the 83.24 million people living in Germany why 0.006% of them being treated in hospitals left the government no other choice than to abolish the constitution due to this dire medical emergency? The numbers you’re quoting are a nice definition of a viral non-event. It’s obviously not a non-event for the people who are badly affected by it. But for the population-at-a-large, the overwhelming majority of which will never get seriously sick with COVID-19 during all of their lives.

NB: I have been through a seriously unpleasant run of long COVID, but this means I’m also a member of a vanishingly small minority and I don’t think banning me from meeting my parents for the remainder of mine and their lifetimes will improve anything here.

Moderate Radical
4 years ago
Reply to  rayc

What’s your point? Granting the veracity of your post, so what? What has an undefined local event to do with the overall IFR and its statistical insignificance?

Do you even have a point?

Adamb
4 years ago

I guess most people are laughing about this. But it’s shocking that anyone feels the need to go to these lengths, and that when found out they are investigated by the police?!

BS665
BS665
4 years ago
Reply to  Adamb

It’s mad. But maybe, in the UK, we don’t really know how bad it is in Italy right now, that he felt he had to do this. Maybe real arms are now needed…

Anti_socialist
4 years ago

Majority of England’s Omicron cases ARE double-vaccinated: Schizophrenic liberals at it again SAGE calls for WFH and vaccine passports in face of Omicron wave I’d love to know the average IQ of the onions in sage.

Anti_socialist
4 years ago
Reply to  Anti_socialist

Just in case you didn’t get the “onion” comparison, they make you cry.

Boomer Bloke
4 years ago
Reply to  Anti_socialist

I don’t know, but they need turning into breadcrumbs before stuffing up a dead animal’s arse.

realarthurdent
4 years ago

A fake arm and a fake vaccine. It’s a match made in heaven.

BS665
BS665
4 years ago
Reply to  realarthurdent

Ha! Only a fake arm doesn’t kill… 😉