Guardian Article Claims Covid in Hospitals Has “Largely Become a Disease of the Unvaccinated” – Yet Data Shows 71% of Adults Hospitalised with Covid Are Vaccinated

An article appeared in the Guardian this week written by an anonymous NHS respiratory consultant claiming that “in hospital, COVID-19 has largely become a disease of the unvaccinated”.

Of course, there are people who have their vaccinations but still get sick. These people may be elderly or frail, or have underlying health problems. Those with illnesses affecting the immune system, particularly patients who have had chemotherapy for blood cancers, are especially vulnerable. Some unlucky healthy people will also end up on our general wards with Covid after being vaccinated, usually needing a modest amount of oxygen for a few days.

But the story is different on our intensive care unit. Here, the patient population consists of a few vulnerable people with severe underlying health problems and a majority of fit, healthy, younger people unvaccinated by choice. … If everyone got vaccinated, hospitals would be under much less pressure; this is beyond debate. Your wait for your clinic appointment/operation/diagnostic test/A&E department would be shorter. Your ambulance would arrive sooner. Reports of the pressure on the NHS are not exaggerated, I promise you. … Most of the resources that we are devoting to Covid in hospital are now being spent on the unvaccinated.

This reads to me like a blatant attempt to stigmatise the unvaccinated as selfish, a burden on society and a threat to the vaccinated. (The clue is in the headline: “ICU is full of the unvaccinated – my patience with them is wearing thin.”) Given the polling (which may not be very reliable of course) showing that 45% of U.K. adults would support an indefinite lockdown of the unvaccinated, this is all starting to look and sound rather ugly.

The most frustrating thing about this anonymously written article is it doesn’t cite any data even though its arguments are based on claims which only data can validate. It consists instead only of a single medic’s subjective impressions, with no sources provided to see if his claims holds water.

Are the hospitalised mostly unvaccinated? Not according to Government data from the UKHSA. Here is the breakdown of hospitalisations by vaccination status in England for the four weeks up to November 14th from the latest Vaccine Surveillance report.

Adding these figures up we find that 3,200 of 9,831 or 33% of Covid hospitalisations are of unvaccinated people, leaving 67% of Covid hospital patients in the vaccinated category, most of them with two doses. Focusing just on adults, we find 2,692 of 9,278 or 29% of Covid hospitalisations are unvaccinated, leaving 71% vaccinated. Seeing as just 68% of the U.K. population is double vaccinated, 67% of Covid hospital patients having received at least one dose hardly seems like a strong result. Indeed, it suggests the unvaccinated are barely over-represented in hospitals at all.

What about Covid deaths – are the unvaccinated over-represented there? Here’s the table from the same report.

Adding them up we find that 675 of 3,676 or 18% of Covid deaths in the month up to November 14th are in unvaccinated people, leaving 82% in the vaccinated, most with two doses. Only in the under-40s do deaths in the unvaccinated outnumber those in the vaccinated.

It’s hard to square this data with the picture painted by the anonymous medic. Far from COVID-19 having “largely become a disease of the unvaccinated”, with most Covid hospital resources “now being spent on the unvaccinated”, a large majority of hospitalisations and deaths are occurring in the vaccinated, not the unvaccinated.

But what about ICU admissions? And is it true that the vaccinated-sick all have underlying health issues whereas the unvaccinated-sick are all healthy?

The problem with addressing these claims is that we don’t have the data to check them out. The data on ICU admissions by vaccination status has not been updated since July as far as I can see (if you are aware of a more recent update do let me know), and I am not aware of any data on co-morbidities (again, if you are aware of any please drop me a line).

The anonymous writer states: “I can’t think of a single case offhand of a person who was previously fit and healthy who has ended up needing intensive care after being fully vaccinated. It may not stop you from catching Covid. But it can save your life when you do.” But again, this is anecdotal and therefore not terribly helpful.

It’s fair to note that much data does appear to show that the vaccines protect people well against severe disease and death, at least for several months, though some recent analysis has questioned whether such efficacy has been overestimated.

But however well the vaccines protect against severe disease, that is no excuse for turning the unvaccinated into pariahs or scapegoats and blaming them for the strains on the health service. Such moralised blaming of a minority for supposedly disadvantaging the majority (‘Can’t get a doctor’s appointment? Surgery been cancelled again? The unvaccinated are to blame!’) has a very ugly history and rarely ends well. It’s particularly odd to see this scapegoating in a supposedly liberal newspaper. It needs to stop now.

Stop Press: Jamie Jenkins, known as @statsjamie on Twitter, has done a fact check on this article and come to broadly the same conclusion.

Subscribe
Notify of

To join in with the discussion please make a donation to The Daily Sceptic.

Profanity and abuse will be removed and may lead to a permanent ban.

247 Comments
Oldest
Newest Most Voted
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
karenovirus
4 years ago

In Soviet Russia what used be called Tractor Stats that were used to give the impression that a particular operation was going according to The Plan.

Sometimes outright lies as when the Volga Peoples Tracto Co-operative was making the stipulated number of tractors as evidenced by vast numbers of them ploughing into the distant horizon.
Then yet more come into view but they were just the first lot making a second or third appearance for the camera.

Not always complete lies, the Vorshnia Galoshes plant migh indeed have produced 2 million shoe coverings but they woul be for the left foot only.

bOrgkilLaH1of7
4 years ago
Reply to  karenovirus

Q). What’s the difference between a “conspiracy theory” and the nightly BBC news? A). About three months And watch now how a Canadian official blatantly gaslights a genuine valid question about IVM and SARS Cov2 virus suppression, his body language tells you all. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wckMULt01EE This was never…ever about you or your loved ones health and well-being. CJs latest NEW NORMAL take-down is once more a master-class analyses of where we be: https://consentfactory.org/2021/11/22/pathologized-totalitarianism-101/ My worry is this instability and societal breakdown being GloboCap driven, well we all know what happened in Europe during the zeig heil heyday 1930s. IMO the unspoken danger is the reams of young people whose futures have been totally destroyed by decades of failed education and tens of trillions in student loan bondage, topped-off by the millions of exported jobs. The result? A supermajority of the 99% kids have low wage non-jobs even if equipped with a PhD, no long-term life partner or next gen family underway…i.e no emotionally fulfilling future. Hence no stake in the prevailing status quo or reason to defend it. What of the useless eater elderly? They are being eviscerated by experimental gene therapies and a failed NHS system… how does that work… Read more »

1637493339023.jpg
SimCS
4 years ago
Reply to  bOrgkilLaH1of7

That ‘Canadian official’ blatantly ignored the question of Ivermectin and went straight back to ‘vaccines’. Why can’t these greaseballs answer a direct question directly?? What are they afraid of?

beancounter
beancounter
4 years ago

Why would anyone believe what is published in the Guardian, especially when it is anonymous, so probably just made up by a staff writer?
That rag, and the Independent with its claim that Kyle Rittenhouse had shot three black people, demonstrate the depths of lying of the media every day.

karenovirus
4 years ago
Reply to  beancounter

Every thing you say is just so correct, I can’t be bothered to read in full.

landt2020
landt2020
4 years ago
Reply to  beancounter

If you were considering reading the Daily Mail instead, you’d get the same underlying message:

Deadly cost of unjabbed
Around 10,000 more people than normal have died in the past four months from non-Covid conditions like heart disease as their treatment was postponed. Why? Because NHS wards are now full of selfish, deluded, unvaccinated patients who caught Covid.
Have these bed-blockers no shame?
They’ve caused unimaginable suffering to the families of those who did the right thing yet were put at the back of the queue for emergency treatment. A plague on all these selfish idiots.

This is from Platell’s People on Sunday, so the opposite demographic to the Guardian! But it looks like a concerted effort on all sides to make the unjabbed into the scapegoats for growing NHS backlogs and missed diagnoses, rather than lockdowns.

amanuensis
4 years ago
Reply to  landt2020

The funny thing is, NHS wards are full, but they’re certainly not full of covid patients.

Why are the wards so full even before flu season starts? Is it because the vaccinations have increased the rate of non-covid conditions? Ie, have around 10,000 more people than normal died because of the selfish non-vulnerable people that clamoured for the vaccines last spring, who are now suffering side effects?

karenovirus
4 years ago
Reply to  amanuensis

I was overnight in an acute ward 3 weeks ago, I almost had to beg to be allowed home the next afternoon because my final scan was not scheduled until late the following morning.
You might have thought they would be keen to get another empty bed if they are so full.

crisisgarden
4 years ago
Reply to  amanuensis

I can report truthfully second hand that in former ‘hotspot’ Bradford Royal Infirmary there are currently zero patients on the covid ward.

karenovirus
4 years ago
Reply to  landt2020

That reads more like the dislocated tripe that finds itself as ‘least liked’ in the readers comments.
It seems unlikely that Platel will have endeard theyself to theys readers.

Star
4 years ago
Reply to  landt2020

So Amanda Platell wants to invoke a “plague” on us now, does she? We cause unimaginable suffering to families of those who “do the right thing”, do we? We don’t clap hard enough on our doorsteps for the government. We probably won’t even wear black armbands when the monarch snuffs it. How can we expect to be helped to survive when our very being is full of such shame?

Ah but, but can’t we take a joke, she was only being ironic, and so on.

Richard Austin
Richard Austin
4 years ago
Reply to  landt2020

She appears to be completely and utterly unaware that the NHS essentially closed down for 12 months.

Sandra Barwick
Sandra Barwick
4 years ago
Reply to  landt2020

That’s just Amanda in full on Glenda Slagg mode.
She could reverse ferret in the same style next week.

karenovirus
4 years ago
Reply to  beancounter

To be fair to the Graun that article is a better attempt to produce news than the Daily Express showing in the first item of todays Roundup
It consists entirely of a staffer quoting their own readers comments on another Covid article. Those comments could, of course, have been entirely fabricated.

Rowan
Rowan
4 years ago
Reply to  beancounter

One of my vaxxed “friends” sent me the Guardian piece yesterday with an I told you so note. I replied:- I see that the article appears to emanate from the Bill Gates funded Guardian, so probably dodgy, but let’s pass on that for now. The doctor is generally pushing the official narrative, but nevertheless still can’t give us his/her name and the locations where he/she works. Why? This doctor tells us that the vaccines work, while UKHSA figures says something very different, as I reported last week. And their effectiveness, which is now generally substantially negative is still in free fall. Of course, this points to the vaccinated being more liable to infection than are the unvaccinated. The doctor also says that there are nurses on Covid wards who haven’t been vaccinated, now what do they know that is holding them back? Those that want to dig a little deeper could peruse the link below. It is a long but readable article and is based on official UK statistics, with just a little speculation thrown in as to what the situation will be by the end of this year. It may not be overly suitable for those who are jabbed… Read more »

NickR
4 years ago
Reply to  Rowan

It’s worth noting that 95% of all-cause fatalities are of double jabbed individuals. The idea that the ICUs are stuffed full of the 5% of people unvaccinated who are at deaths door doesn’t seem right.
In each age range the deaths & hospitalisation are largely in line with vaccine rates. Take away the PCR testing & it would be hard to discern any improvement as a consequence of vaccinating half the world’s popuation.

191121 Deaths & Hosp table from HSA wk 46.jpg
Rowan
Rowan
4 years ago
Reply to  NickR

Thank you.

SimCS
4 years ago
Reply to  Rowan

This also talks of the potential for destruction of the vaccinated’s immune system, and also just 4 of the ~20 mechanisms by which Ivermectin works… https://climateofsophistry.com/2021/09/24/thermodynamics-101-socrates-debunks-climate-alarm-science/#comment-95114

Milo
Milo
4 years ago
Reply to  Rowan

“Acquired immunodeficiency syndrome is a condition that is thought to be caused solely by the alleged HIV virus, and it leads to the loss of immune cells and leaves individuals susceptible to other infections and the development of certain types of cancers. In other words, it completely decimates the immune system.

Therefore, could we be seeing some new form of Covid-19 vaccine induced acquired immunodeficiency syndrome?”

I could be wrong, but isn’t this just the ‘gain of function’ work that was being done in the lab from which the ‘virus’ purportedly escaped from? and if so then should what is playing out not have been expected from the jabbing programme?

186NO
186NO
4 years ago
Reply to  beancounter

True – never ending litany of agenda driven drivel. “Never let the facts get in the …..

A Heretic
A Heretic
4 years ago

a majority of fit, healthy, younger people

you know it’s bullshit when they start trying to claim the people it doesn’t affect are the ones in hospital.

amanuensis
4 years ago
Reply to  A Heretic

You know its bullshit when the stories always highlight the ones they’re trying to vaccinate next.

Eg, at the moment they’re trying to encourage boosters, so there are lots of stories about double jabbed people dying before they could get their booster.

Vxi7
Vxi7
4 years ago
Reply to  amanuensis

Hahaha exactly! Like few months ago when a lot of pregnant women were suddenly in hospitals. Just when their age group were up for vaccination.

Chris_uk
4 years ago

An article last week on the BBC News site, Why the NHS is struggling like never before has a chart showing that (in their words) “Covid is now only a small part of NHS pressure”. The chart shows that about 90% of patients are non-Covid. Of the remainder, almost half are empty beds. Quoting the article, “With support and care disrupted and Covid making people more isolated and less active, their health has suffered. According to those working in the NHS, they are now turning up to hospital in ever greater numbers. And it is this as much as Covid that is driving the rise in demand on the NHS”.

Sforzesca
Sforzesca
4 years ago
Reply to  Chris_uk

Maybe the jabs have something to do with it as well…

Rowan
Rowan
4 years ago
Reply to  Sforzesca

I would rather suspect that the jabs are the main driver, so the BBC are still playing a dirty game.

Rogerborg
4 years ago
Reply to  Chris_uk

Aside, it’s quite astonishing that Nick Triggle has managed to cling on for so long while producing so many balanced, reasonable and truthful articles at Al Beeb.

He even cited an (actual, named) medic saying “We’re just going to have to accept now that we’re all going to catch COVID, multiple times, and live with it.”

I hope his contract is iron clad.

karenovirus
4 years ago
Reply to  Rogerborg

With improved immunity after each time they heroically survive this glorified flu?

TheyLiveAndWeLockdown
4 years ago
Reply to  karenovirus

Higher and higher chance of it being asymptomatic.

OMG people will take lemsip for COVID and flu.

Rowan
Rowan
4 years ago

I know a double jabbed woman who just can’t shake off her “worst cold ever” She has been living on Lemsip for the past four weeks. God help her liver.

TheyLiveAndWeLockdown
4 years ago
Reply to  Rowan

AZ double jabbed?

It does seem to ruin the immune system…

Maybe that’s the reason for lockdowns, to hide the damage!

karenovirus
4 years ago
Reply to  Chris_uk

We’re are coming into Winter, the temperature is brisk 2°C. More people are turning up at hospital because they can’t see their GP.

What’s the news?

Anonymous
Anonymous
4 years ago
Reply to  Chris_uk

Thanks so much for linking this article. The wall of unwavering belief that the hospitals are packed with healthy young and irresponsible people dying from covid is incredibly hard to break down. People are so invested in their vacsine-based world view.

Chris_uk
4 years ago
Reply to  Chris_uk

I thought it worth copying the BBC chart here because it’s so revealing. You do have to wonder how many of the Non-Covids are vaccine complications.

bbc.png
TheyLiveAndWeLockdown
4 years ago

The Grauniad has been wrong about everything all the time, now it lies about everything all the time.

SimCS
4 years ago

It believes its left-wing ideology is some kind of utopia, thinks people should welcome it with open arms, but can’t understand why they don’t.

dopamineboy
dopamineboy
4 years ago

The Guardian has become the official mouthpiece of Big Pharma. They continue to distort information about the “horse drug” ivermectin and its effectiveness.

prod_squadron
prod_squadron
4 years ago

Also is the treatment regime the same for all patients, vaccinated or not? Are emergency use experimental medicines being used like something called Regen Cov? I saw Tony Blair Institute was advocating using trial drugs without asking for consent from the patient cto speed up the process.

karenovirus
4 years ago

When I first developed sciatica I was initially prescribed a low dose proprietary pain killer while wating for actual treatment (ie charged to the NHS by Big Pharma).
It wasn’t very effective so I tried Boots and Lloyd’s own brand Ibuprofen in the shiny gold and green metallic packaging which cost a bit wasn’t any better.

A friend suggested I try Co-Op own brand paracetamol, 50p for loads.
They were very effective and kept me comfortable, when needed, for about 10 years. My GP explained that they didn’t really know about pain but in many instances it’s trial and error or each to his own.

timsk
4 years ago
Reply to  karenovirus

Hi karenvirus,
Without wishing to take the thread off topic – I too suffer from sciatica – it’s a pain! Can’t believe you’ve put up with it for 10 years – is the Co-Op’s own brand paracetamol the only thing you’ve found that helps?

Hester
Hester
4 years ago
Reply to  timsk

My sciatic nerve became trapped in my lower vertebrae which collapsed earlier this year the pain was awful, Doc gave me all sorts of really srong meds, prior to my having a steroid injection there which sorted it. However the only thing that really helped was when the pain was really bad 2 paracetamol and 2 ibuprofen 2 hours apart the combination worked for me. take 2 paracetamol, give it 2 hours then take 2 ibuprofen then 2 hours later or longer if you can hold out paracetamol wait at least 2 hours then ibuprofen.
Hope it helps I have never had pain like it,

Stevey
Stevey
4 years ago
Reply to  Hester

Take the paracetamol and ibuprofen together. One effect of paracetamol is that it enhances other painkillers.

186NO
186NO
4 years ago
Reply to  Hester

Cocodamol…… 2 x 500mg dose…. twice a day?

You won’t feel much after a couple of days….worked for me with severe low back pain a couple of yers ago. Stretching and yoga afterwards when all calmed down…Red Wine if all else fails, but not conjointly (haha)

karenovirus
4 years ago
Reply to  timsk

Not really off topic timsk since its about self sufficiency and not having the NHS dictating what’s what. While waiting for the NHS to spring into action, on the advice of another friend, I attended a local chiropractor for exercises to reduce pain. Bargain at £30.00 a pop. The chiropractor hinted that I should not tell the NHS about using her services in case some collectivist loon decided I was paying to get to the front of the queue and inconvenience me to satisfy their political view. The pain settled down to the degree that it was not really affecting my late middle aged lifestyle so when they phoned out of the blue telling me to come in for my first injection (cortisone needle in the spine) without discussing any alternatives I politely declined. The Co-op own brand took me through the initial crisis but I’ve not needed pain relief specifically for sciatica for several years although it is starting to rear its head again. Now I regard those several years as a bonus and might reconsider the cortisone choice again. I would not necessarily act on my recommendation of Co-op paracetamol because as I mentioned, my GP said its… Read more »

TheyLiveAndWeLockdown
4 years ago
Reply to  karenovirus

For sciatica I’d also suggest Yoga.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opGrW5mglKI

Rowan Berkeley
Rowan Berkeley
4 years ago
Reply to  karenovirus

Pregabalin works well for me. It specifically intercepts the pain signals (the GABA receptors) – I have been using it for severe sciatica for years. It is of course prescription only:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pregabalin

karenovirus
4 years ago
Reply to  Rowan Berkeley

Thanks for that, I’ll be emailing my GP about something else later and will mention it.

TheyLiveAndWeLockdown
4 years ago
Reply to  karenovirus

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fcell.2020.613006/full

Quercetin Suppresses Apoptosis and Attenuates Intervertebral Disc Degeneration via the SIRT1-Autophagy Pathway

HelenaHancart
HelenaHancart
4 years ago
Reply to  karenovirus

It’s true. Not all pain killers are made the same. When I was first diagnosed with RA I was prescribed paracetamol to keep the pain at bay. That prescription stopped some years ago and I had to buy my own but none of the OC paracetamol worked anything like the prescribed ones! Maybe it was psychosomatic but I’ve tried many. Co-Op brand are actually pretty good.

huxleypiggles
4 years ago
Reply to  karenovirus

Yes.

Ibuprofen never worked for me and now I have been advised against it because of ticker issues. Not that I would use something that doesn’t work 😕.

Edumacated eejit
4 years ago
Reply to  karenovirus

To cap that, I was in Boots just a few years ago looking at their own paracetamol (16 tablets) at 48p compared with branded packs at many times more. I then spotted Boots’ Essentials pack at 16p (still 16 tablets). The pharmacist was close by and I asked what the difference was. She responded with a resounding, “Absolutely nothing.” The whole business of drug sales is rotten to the core!

Julian
4 years ago

this is all starting to look and sound rather ugly”

It’s been ugly from the start. I hope the DS realises now that we are engaged in a vicious war and that our enemies are powerful and wicked.

James Kreis
4 years ago

They would say that wouldn’t they because we know who’s keeping them afloat…

Committed Grants | Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation – Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation

prod_squadron
prod_squadron
4 years ago
Reply to  James Kreis

I’m off topic but I started musing on when June Raine became CEO of the MRHA as she strikes me as a bit of a patsy (sorry June). Lo and behold, she was elevated to the post of interim CEO in September 2019, about a month before event 201 and the guy standing down was given an OBE and a job with Bill and Melinda.

TheGreenAcres
4 years ago

It must now be clear to anyone that there is an agenda being forced here and the MSM are entirely complicit in it. A few token pieces aside, they are pushing the narrative without recourse to fact checking or critical analysis.

We keep assuming that this is all an overreaction, a panic, a mass delusion that will pass. It is time to start thinking the unthinkable – look at Australia and NZ, look at Austria and Germany.

We think it couldn’t possibly happen here, but it will if people do not wake up and stop being complacent. But it needs to be a mass movement and I see very few signs of that happening unfortunately.

Anti_socialist
4 years ago
Reply to  TheGreenAcres

I assume & always have, that this is a criminal conspiracy, I don’t much care by who or why, it just needs to be stopped before it’s gone too far.

Emerald Fox
4 years ago
Reply to  Anti_socialist

And now they really are taking people ‘to the camps’. As predicted. It’s for “their own good” of course.

stewart
4 years ago
Reply to  Emerald Fox

I can’t think of a better deterrent against getting a covid test.

Well, one. Being executed.

After execution, the biggest deterrent against testing is imprisonment, I would say

ChrisDinBristol
ChrisDinBristol
4 years ago
Reply to  Anti_socialist

It went too far in April 2020. The subsequent descent into Hell was inevitable (and widely predicted by so-called ‘conspiracy theorists’).

Aleajactaest
4 years ago
Reply to  TheGreenAcres

£200MM in ad revenue from the Uniparty tends to have that effect.

Rogerborg
4 years ago
Reply to  Aleajactaest

Bingo. There is a revolving door between Fleet and Downing Streets.

Emerald Fox
4 years ago
Reply to  TheGreenAcres

“But it needs to be a mass movement and I see very few signs of that happening unfortunately.”

What about the protests? Don’t forget ‘lawyers’ are coming to save us and all the evil ones will be on trial at the Nuremburg 2 court sessions, the lid has been blown off (many times) and the house of cards is collapsing…
There is hope!

People versed in ‘Common Law’ will be rounding up all the Guardian journalists and closing their offices and operation for good.

“Restoring the Law with peace and honour · Guardians 300 · OUR MISSION · Train and prepare people who want to apply common law throughout the world as a common law ..”

https://guardians300.com/

FrankFisher
4 years ago
Reply to  Emerald Fox

The only way this will be stopped is violence. Everyone shies away from that, but anyone who has studied history knows it is true. Legal approaches are nonsense, not least because every human rights NGO is soros-funded and is on board with the conspiracy.

ChrisDinBristol
ChrisDinBristol
4 years ago
Reply to  FrankFisher

Sad but true. But don’t forget our friends at the Rockerfeller Foundation – distorting science and populating the Establishment for over 100 years. . .

tom171uk
4 years ago
Reply to  Emerald Fox

What common law? Blair’s government passed an incredible amount of statute law to supersede common law. That would all have to be repealed by parliament before we could even start looking at common law.

Covidiot
Covidiot
4 years ago
Reply to  TheGreenAcres

‘It needs to be a mass movement’

Why oh why have we never been able to achieve this after all this time?

HelenaHancart
HelenaHancart
4 years ago
Reply to  Covidiot

Because too many are STILL happily chewing the cud, whilst gazing at the brainwashing screen. They believe that being a docile, good little citizen, and obeying the diktats without question will end this, and they’ll “get back to normal”. And we’re the selfish ones, spreading disease, protesting and the like. Oh, and they all know and reverently speak of at least four that have died “because of Covid” and “hundreds” of people that have “had Covid”. Can’t compete with that level of moral high ground. They’re on it and their hooves are firmly dug into it. It doesn’t bear thinking for them if they had to face up to the fact that it’s their cowardice not virtuosity, that’s keeping this going?

Covidiot
Covidiot
4 years ago
Reply to  HelenaHancart

I reckon at least 1 in 4 are sceptical – maybe 1 in 10 vociferous – that still gives us a pool of millions.

I hear what you are saying – and I agree, but I also think we are being defeatist.

One of the major problems, is that there are no credible figure heads to rally round. Every movement needs leaders. Nobody has really dared to lead, apart from people like Piers Corbyn who, in a way, is damaging, because it is easy to tarnish him as a mad conspiracy theorist.

We need credible leaders in my opinion, from in or around the mainstream, but I understand the fear of being tarnished and othered

HelenaHancart
HelenaHancart
4 years ago
Reply to  Covidiot

I agree, don’t get me wrong. I’m seeing more and more push back. Even my resolutely stubborn neighbours, whom I like very much, have begun to see the light! Our work in our local town and at Rebels at Roundabouts has been hugely positive. Oh, I think we’re moving forward now in a positive way but there is the hardcore that are still VERY hardcore, and they’re the hardest nuts to crack.

Covidiot
Covidiot
4 years ago
Reply to  HelenaHancart

Well, thanks for all you are doing Helena, it sounds like you’re fighting the good fight and I am with you in spirit

I just wish we could bring it all together somehow.

Another observation is that (and prepared to be shot down in flames) is that the main dissent has come from the political right, who famously don’t really believe in collective action.

Faced with all this, I would ask them to think again

TheyLiveAndWeLockdown
4 years ago

>I can’t think of a single case offhand of a person who was previously fit and healthy who has ended up needing intensive care after being fully vaccinated.

https://www.mylondon.news/news/south-london-news/london-firefighter-43-left-paralysed-20946027

A London firefighter has been left unable to work after contracting a rare illness that’s left him paralysed from the neck down.
Dave Elson, 46, a firefighter based at Greenwich Fire Station, was said to be previously fit and healthy according to his close friend and former colleague, Rob Hyde who spoke to My London.
Rob said he had received the news on June 12 that Dave was diagnosed with Guillain-Barré syndrome, a rare and serious condition that affects the nervous system.
“We’re not 100 per cent sure but two weeks beforehand he had his first coronavirus jab,” Rob said.

timsk
4 years ago

Yes, good point TLAWL.
There may not be any previously fit and healthy people that have ended up needing intensive care [suffering from Covid] after being fully vaccinated – but there are people needing hospital /intensive care suffering from serious adverse reactions to the vaccines.

As an aside, did anyone hear the CEO of AstraZeneca (AZ) being interviewed on BBC Radio 4’s Today program this morning in which he suggested that the reason mainland Europe is having its current surge in cases is because they mostly had Pfizer shots, whereas, the U.K. jabbed mostly had AZ shots – which is why we’re doing rather better – relatively speaking. I had to laugh!

steve_z
4 years ago
Reply to  timsk

bloody hell, another confounding variable to take account of!

FrankFisher
4 years ago
Reply to  timsk

Actually I don’t think that’s totally insane. The AZ vaccine would have provided for a much broader immune response.

TheyLiveAndWeLockdown
4 years ago
Reply to  FrankFisher

It hitnk the AZ jab was duff and therefore more people in the UK caught SARS2 (and most didnt notice) and thus we have natural herd immunity.

Europe is hooked on the pfiser subscription immune system now.

Proveritate
4 years ago
Reply to  FrankFisher

Why so?

An attenuated live or replication resistant copy of SARS-CoV-2 might have elicited a broader response, but both the adenovirus viral vector (AZ) and mRNA (Pfizer, Moderna) types, though using different transport mechanisms to invade and re-programme cells, produce only the spike protein, not a whole virion.

186NO
186NO
4 years ago
Reply to  Proveritate

And of the – now seemingly irrelevant – Alpha variant?

Madness repeated. It will be very interesting to know which variant is the “infection” in the number of “cases” rising throughout Europe…

Hugh
Hugh
4 years ago
Reply to  timsk

.

Anti_socialist
4 years ago

It’s all starting to sound & look like a conspiracy to coerce/force people into taking an unwanted (useless) dangerous toxic chemical cocktail, which only affords immunity of accountability to the manufacturer.

Hopeless
4 years ago

The Grauniad publishes lies. Who’d a’ thunk it?

Felice
Felice
4 years ago

Another bit of anecdotal evidence:
My daughter has a friend who is an anaesthetist at a big teaching hospital in the east of the country. She says that she has had to prepare a large number of pregnant women with bad covid, for emergency cesarean ops prior to being placed on a ventilator. These women were unvaccinated, because they were ineligible for the jab before they got pregnant and then, like all responsible mums to be, declined to put anything in their body which might harm their unborn child.

Emerald Fox
4 years ago
Reply to  Felice

Evidence of what? Name that teaching hospital, for starters. How many is a ‘large number’?

Felice
Felice
4 years ago
Reply to  Emerald Fox

Evidence that the doctor is talking BS.
Huge difference between ICUs overflowing with healthy young adults, and ICUs with lots of pregnant women. Being pregnant is not a good time to get a respiritory virus – you’re effectively overweight, and lung capacity is often restricted by the presence of the unborn child.
No idea as to the number – but enough to make her take notice.
The hospital – between London and Norwich. Very well known and respected, but I’d rather not actually name it – you can guess, I’m sure.

Btw, earlier, she said that her patients were overwhelmingly overweight elderly men of S Asian ethnicity.

wendy
wendy
4 years ago
Reply to  Felice

HART did an article on this and found statistically no difference to other viral illnesses during pregnancy I think if I remember correctly. I too have a friend who is an anaesthetist the report from them is it is predominantly fat, middle aged men who are on ICU.

amanuensis
4 years ago
Reply to  Felice

Because of the complex way the immune system changes during pregnancy you would expect pregnant women to have an increased rate of problem-covid.

The questions are:

  • Because of the complex way the foetus develops, do the vaccines have any negative effect on the unborn child? We’ll probably find this out about 6-12 months after their born, so long as they are born.
  • Because of the complex changes you get in the immune system during pregnancy, do the vaccines actually help control risks from covid? We’ll know more about this when the trials have been completed properly.
Proveritate
4 years ago
Reply to  amanuensis

Which we won’t know until 2026:

Study C4591022, entitled “Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine Exposure during Pregnancy: A Non-Interventional Post-Approval Safety Study of Pregnancy and Infant Outcomes in the Organization of Teratology Information Specialists (OTIS)/MotherToBaby Pregnancy Registry.”

Final Protocol Submission: July 1, 2021

Study Completion: June 30, 2025

Final Report Submission: December 31, 2025

186NO
186NO
4 years ago
Reply to  Proveritate

Please read this:

https://dailyexpose.uk/2021/11/07/cdc-scientists-admit-they-did-manipulate-study-data-to-show-the-covid-19-vaccines-are-safe-for-pregnant-women/

I think this demonstrates a potentially very serious issue for pregnant women in the first 20 weeks of “confinement”, especially in the first 13 weeks. ( “Are you listening Carrie, how do you feel about your gushing recommendation of a few weeks ago?”

And is this not prima facie evidence of the criminal behaviour of a US Health quango – who will hold them to account? And what is the position of the MHRA once they have read this study and the conclusions drawn by the Kiwi doctors?

Felice
Felice
4 years ago
Reply to  amanuensis

<<Sigh>>> I didn’t put that very well. I was trying to say the suggestion that there were lots of pregnant women in ICU rather showed up the doctor’s rant as BS. If ICUs were overflowing with healthy young adults, then I would be really worried about the future direction of this virus. But if they are full of pregnant women, then I am much less worried, though I feel very sorry for the women and their babies. Anyone who has been pregnant knows that the last trimester is hard work for the body. Firstly, you are effectively overweight as you carry a second being around. Secondly, whilst we know that pregnant women must eat for 2, I’d never thought about the fact that they are breathing for 2 as well. I remember being constantly short of breath shortly before my son was born, as my lung capacity was so constricted by this extra lump of baby. Bottom line: pregnant women are overweight (technically) and have breathing issues. Not good when there is a respiritory virus around like covid. Not quite co-morbidities, but definitely not ‘healthy’ as in their pre pregnant state. Once on the ventilator, without their babies any more,… Read more »

Sandra Barwick
Sandra Barwick
4 years ago
Reply to  amanuensis

If you think “the trials will be completed properly” and there will be unbiased open scrutiny of full data, you too area recently born baby.

stewart
4 years ago
Reply to  Felice

10 to 1 odds they were all very fat.

bOrgkilLaH1of7
4 years ago
Reply to  Felice

Here’s some anecdotal social media evidence….

1632739139564.jpg
Felice
Felice
4 years ago
Reply to  bOrgkilLaH1of7

I’m in agreement with you – please see my reply to amanuensis above.

No I'm Spartacus!
4 years ago

Typical of the left: “this is beyond debate.”

Translation: “There is only my point of view and yours only exists if it agrees with mine.”

The article is also anonymous – we have the right to face our accuser.

Boomer Bloke
4 years ago

There’s also usually the explicit or implicit corollary that if you do dare to disagree, with evidence, you are a racist, homophobe, islamophobe, alt right, white supremacist, extremist, covidiot, antivaxxer, nazi, all of the above. And the more evidence you produce, the more extreme your position.

Felice
Felice
4 years ago

Apart from the ex-pregnant women who were unvaccinated, another group of potential needers of ICU facilities would be those who had a bad reaction to the jab , but are recorded as being unvaccinated because of the ‘more than 2 weeks’ requirement.

Amtrup
4 years ago
Reply to  Felice

The first couple of tables actually specifically list the numbers of positive “cases” that received vax within the previous 20 days in a separate column, so your point doesn’t apply to this data set.

And there don’t seem to be very many people in hospital within 20 days of a vax jab *that test positive”/were tested and found positive for covid … so, at least among the covid-positive there doesn’t seem to be a huge number of hospitalisations of recently vaxxed.

I wonder whether there is any bias in who gets tested. Do they avoid testing people who have been vaxxed in previous 20 days? It’s quite striking how few of them there are. A tiny minority.

amanuensis
4 years ago
Reply to  Amtrup

There are few people in hospital within 20 days of their jab because there are so few people that had their jab within the last 20 days.

There is increasing evidence that risks go on far longer than 20 days. Indeed, there’s evidence that the vaccinated have a period of increased risk from ‘vaccine side effects’ after every covid infection (even if asymptomatic).

TheyLiveAndWeLockdown
4 years ago
Reply to  amanuensis

Mrna COVID Vaccines Dramatically Increase Endothelial Inflammatory Markers and ACS Risk as Measured by the PULS Cardiac Test
https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/abs/10.1161/circ.144.suppl_1.10712

or
Comprehensive investigations revealed consistent pathophysiological alterations after vaccination with COVID-19 vaccines
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/articles/PMC8546144/

or something else?

186NO
186NO
4 years ago

Out idiot masquerading as a PM still prattling on about boosters are the best medicine….he would still be ordering a 10 course dinner as the Titanic went down…

Horse
Horse
4 years ago

It is well established that The Guardian is a joke.

Aleajactaest
4 years ago
Reply to  Horse

no, jokes are funny. The Grauniad are psychopaths.

David.in.Italy
4 years ago
Reply to  Horse

A couple of years ago, I noticed The Guardian publishing verbatim articles from RFE/RL. (Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty) which they actually credited to RFE/RL as a byline.

historically, RFE/RL was funded by …
the old Grauniad once published a scoop by …….
and then the pavement was dug-up outside the building, and some technical experts were officially required to attack the Grauniad staff editorial MacBook Pros with axle grinders

and now we have The Guardian, the Grauniad no-longer exists,
of course – I might be completely mistaken.

Boomer Bloke
4 years ago
Reply to  Horse

Agreed, with their well established target market being teachers, academics, and the media. Because they used to be the main source of job ads for academia, the teaching and media. So the idiots that read that bilge are writing the news and teaching our children.

Colin Acton
Colin Acton
4 years ago

Some recent icu jabbed/not jabbed data here from the CSO in Ireland may be of interest
https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/br/b-cdc/covid-19deathsandcasesseries36/

steve_z
4 years ago

the 29% unvaccinated in hospital will mostly be in there with other conditions and have tested positive

this report can be filed in the bin with the BBCs ‘the wards are filling up with covid kids’ bullshit from last winter

steve_z
4 years ago

we know from Sweden data that the only people dying of covid are the mortally ill who would die soon anyway

that’s how they got through an 18 month pandemic with no lockdown and no excess deaths

Emerald Fox
4 years ago

The Guardian spreads lies.
So what should be done about it?
They will continue to publish rubbish until they are stopped.
That’s about it, really.

Proveritate
4 years ago
Reply to  Emerald Fox

Quite so. They have been spreading lies about climate change for decades.

cornubian
4 years ago

If you add in those who have been excluded from the injected category owing to the 21 day sleight of hand, the % of the injected hospitalised would be higher.

Amtrup
4 years ago
Reply to  cornubian

The tables here do list those cases separately, in the column headed vax within the previous 20 days. So unless Will included those in his sums of unvaxxed your point dues not apply here, not to the covid-positive anyway. But I wonder if the very recently vaxxed are not being tested as much, precisely because ( if did test positive ) any increased adverse effects on them would then appear in these official data sets …

Norman
4 years ago

“Previously fit and healthy”, like the young sportsmen who are dropping dead on sports fields after their vaccinations.

Sforzesca
Sforzesca
4 years ago

I gave up on that famous investigative newspaper just after covid fear began – and which they helped create.

I tried to point this out in their comments section but was always shouted down by about 90%. I admit that at that stage I was shocked, silly me. I was soon pre moderated after attempts at baiting them – with fundamental truths like the superiority of natural recovery, myths of asymptomatic transmission- and ultimate heresy – the dangers of mrna gene therapy.
I still struggle to understand quite why, maybe Bill Gates and his money has a bearing on it, plus them maybe believing that as liberals, only they really care and that so called right wingers are just selfish.

Be that as it may, I do urge everyone to wait for a suitable article you can comment on and let rip. You will be disallowed after a while and maybe now they look at all comments beforehand, but if you get in I guarantee you will be entertained by the replies.

grob1234
grob1234
4 years ago
Reply to  Sforzesca

Same on the BBC HYS forum.

Though I’m permanently banned from that now…

TheyLiveAndWeLockdown
4 years ago
Reply to  grob1234

On the channel of universal deceit, telling the truth is a counter-revolutionary act.

Boomer Bloke
4 years ago
Reply to  grob1234

I occasionally post there to see how long it takes for the ‘taken down’ notification to land in my inbox. My record is about a minute.

186NO
186NO
4 years ago
Reply to  Boomer Bloke

Ummm, waiting for the English cricket is racist HYSteria comments to open…Impossible to keep to 400 characters , but then I suspect I will be cancelled long before the end…

wendy
wendy
4 years ago
Reply to  Sforzesca

I gave up on it too at around the same time and for the same reasons as you. I feel better for never looking at it’s website and will never return.

Covidiot
Covidiot
4 years ago
Reply to  Sforzesca

I have followed a similar path to you, except I was eventually banned in May 2020 for simply pointing out that the cost of the policies would be too high and the disease was blown out of all proportion because the models were based on the Spanish flu

Covidiot
Covidiot
4 years ago
Reply to  Covidiot

I see it as being too close to the truth for comfort

T-Centralen
4 years ago

Even if the statement were accurate (and given the UKHSA data it seems to be something of an exaggeration), being unvaccinated would surely only be one denominator of the ICU admissions. Being overweight/obese and being over 65 is surely a far stronger correlation. There is more chance of an obese, double vaccinated 70 year old ending up in a covid ICU than a healthy, unvaccinated 30 year old. To divide and demonise society upon this one factor is madness when there are plainly far stronger denominators to ICU entry. I await the Guardian article decrying the pandemic of the old and obese.

wendy
wendy
4 years ago

Thank you Will. Who ever the doctor is who wrote the anonymous article that person is a very nasty piece of work. And what does it say about a newspaper, The Guardian, who readily publishes something like this.

Amtrup
4 years ago
Reply to  wendy

🙂 I just posted almost exactly the same. Yes, very grateful for this analysis.

Amtrup
4 years ago

Thank you very much, Will, for this examination and rebuttal/debunking. I saw the article at the Guardian and was appalled by it, the anonymity, the total absence of supporting data, and the blatant rabble-rousing/mob-encouraging scapegoating.

steve_z
4 years ago
Reply to  Amtrup

guardian readers love to hate

DanClarke
DanClarke
4 years ago
Reply to  Amtrup

They keep closing the comments when it gets too abusive which is nearly every day

Covidiot
Covidiot
4 years ago
Reply to  DanClarke

Yes, that is what they do, first the comments are modded, then they disappear – then the whole thing gets shut down.

10 years ago you could comment on anything, now you can only comment on the uncontroversial.

They seem positively fearful of dissent and keep a very tight, controlled narrative.

I originally fell out with them over the sustained smear campaign against Corbyn – egged on by the war-mongerer Blair and his pals. Love him or hate him, the Guardian did the establishments bidding and carried out a character assassination on him based on misinformation and lies. Ever since then I have not been able to trust a word they say.

This is someone who worked for the Guardian for a short time in a research capacity. I’ve been inside the offices, met Alan Rusbrigder etc

Through that I realised they were only interested in evidencing a pre-existing narrative, and they are run by an upper-middle class elite

Cecil B
Cecil B
4 years ago

The Pig Dictator is trying too hard to emulate his hero Churchill

Yesterday his Pepa Pig speech was almost a straight lift from Churchills 1959 ‘Bill and Ben and the Flower Pot Men’ speech

Those of you that remember will know that after a visit to the BBC Churchill praised B&B and the fact that the children’s programme was available in most of the countries of the former British Empire

Churchill also pointed out that no Whitehall mandarin could have come up with such an idea

Amtrup
4 years ago
Reply to  Cecil B

Ha! Brilliant. Thank you for that historical light! 🙂

steve_z
4 years ago
Cecil B
Cecil B
4 years ago
Reply to  steve_z

BBC staff can read

Please produce evidence to support this theory

Will
Will
4 years ago

I am going to cite that Guardian article, when I speak to my doctor tomorrow, about being granted medical exemption from the vaccines, as clear evidence that the medical profession can’t be believed or trusted on any matter relating to vaccination.

Will
Will
4 years ago
Reply to  Will

I will also be quoting Pritchard’s August stats in November and that bitch Laura Duffel.

DoctorCOxford
DoctorCOxford
4 years ago

Mostly agree with the author but, not in all ways. While it is true that 68% of alL Brits are vaccinated, we know that it’s adult vaccination numbers that matter. Since under 12s aren’t even allowed to be jabbed (yet) their numbers should be removed full stop. According to the dashboard 80.3% have had two doses in the 12+ age category. Of greater importance yet is that 88.3% have had at least 1 jab. Since 12-18 are only allowed 1 jab, this is probably the number that we solidly use. It is not fair for our side to say (rightly) young people don’t need the vaccine and then include them in determining vaccination levels for comparisons. We also know that vaccination rates in older age categories are upwards of 95%. Since your chance of ending up in hospital, vaccinated or unvaccinated, drops off significantly under 50, we know that the highest age categories are highest vaccinated. If 8% of 50+ are unvaccinated and they are accounting for 25%+ of hospitalization, then we know that they are represented at 3x the population %. This indicates that at the margin vaccination does still reduce hospitalization. We need I do this by age,… Read more »

Will
Will
4 years ago
Reply to  DoctorCOxford

Excellent post DoctorC.

steve_z
4 years ago
Reply to  DoctorCOxford

” If 8% of 50+ are unvaccinated and they are accounting for 25%+ of hospitalization, then we know that they are represented at 3x the population %. This indicates that at the margin vaccination does still reduce hospitalization. ”

only if the 2 cohorts are otherwise the same

but vacced include many worried well and unvacced people at the margins of society plus people too ill to be vacced

I have still to see proper evidence of vaccine efficacy. In the trial there were more all cause deaths in the vaccine than placebo arm

steve_z
4 years ago
Reply to  steve_z

just to add, I’m ambivalent about whether they work or not at reducing illness and death. I haven’t seen any data that convinces me. The PHE report is (by their own admission and the ONS) unfit to measure efficacy due to the confounding factors of differences between the self selecting vacced and unvacced cohorts.

I always assumed that absent proper fraud, the vaccs might work for those at risk to some extent but daft to give to everyone because of no long term data

loopDloop
loopDloop
4 years ago
Reply to  DoctorCOxford

That’s round the wrong way though. It’s not, ok, the vaccine’s work, now are they safe. It should be, first are they safe, ok, now do they work.

The fact that in older people for a few weeks it boosts their immunity is irrelevant compared to the harm that this vaccine is causing. And if you’re a doctor, and you can’t see that, then I don’t know what to tell you.

Anonymous
Anonymous
4 years ago
Reply to  loopDloop

From my reading of the comment, the Oxford doc does see that.

TheyLiveAndWeLockdown
4 years ago
Reply to  loopDloop

and it only boosts there resistance to SARS2, and harms every other response.

milesahead
milesahead
4 years ago
Reply to  DoctorCOxford

Your conclusions re the benefits conferred by the jabs are open to question. How many over-50s are testing positive (and it could be a false positive) after being in hospital with another condition? I also believe that there is a possibility that patients within 21 days of their second jab are being included in the unvaccinated totals – which will skew the data!

cornubian
4 years ago
Reply to  DoctorCOxford

“Vaccination (sorry if you don’t like the fact) still provides greater protection against serious illness than no prior infection.” Try telling that to the 20,000 UK citizens killed and millions injured by the injections that both the Lancet and BMJ point out have zero efficacy.

186NO
186NO
4 years ago
Reply to  DoctorCOxford

“Vaccination (sorry if you don’t like the fact) still provides greater protection against serious illness than no prior infection” You ignore existing T/memory cell immunity from other coronaviruses previously suffered – ref Dr Yeadon and others – studies have been done on this as you may know. Re: the risk of death and adverse reaction – there is growing evidence ( massive understatement) of the harm these jabs and the delivery system do (the admission that these jabs should not be repeated ad infinitum is …troubling). I fervently disagree that they should be given “to those at risk” – if “the long term damage to immune responses” is unknown, how on this earth is it medically acceptable to further endanger people who may have already compromised immune systems? Early treatment regimes developed at speed in the US and elsewhere have proved to be very effective at stopping the SARS COV2 variants, reducing hospitilisations and deaths; not my knowledge but doctors like Peter McCullough know this from real world clinical experience – their evidence cannot be ignored any longer. The drugs they and others use are proven safe, out of patent ( very big clue there) , cheap – apart from… Read more »