Why Are We Still Talking About Infection Rates?
Covid’s now been with us for almost two full years. Here in the UK, we’ve had three separate lockdowns. And as of Monday, two thirds of the entire population has been fully vaccinated.
Yet people are still fretting over infection rates. Last week, the New York Times published an absurd article titled ‘Needless Suffering: Britain offers a warning of what happens when a country ignores Covid.’
If three separate lockdowns and a mass vaccination program qualifies as “ignoring” Covid, I’d hate to see what “addressing” it looks like. Spending 90% of GDP on suppression and renaming the Health Secretary ‘Minister for Covid’, perhaps?
“Cases have surged this fall,” the authors write, “more so than in the rest of Europe, the U.S. or many other countries.” So? Covid’s rapidly becoming an endemic disease, and infections will creep up from time to time. But there’s no evidence that lots of people are getting seriously ill or dying.
What’s more, infections have actually been falling for the past three weeks. Indeed, they’d already started falling when the Times article was published – a reminder that, in the era of Covid, life comes at you fast.
Given that natural immunity confers stronger protection against infection than the vaccines, case numbers are likely to remain elevated until enough people have had the virus at least once. I’m not sure what fraction of people are currently in this category, but it might be about a third.
That means we’ve got a few months to go before the disease becomes truly endemic. And as vaccine-induced immunity wanes, there are going to be more infections. Why not just get them out of the way now?
Rather than being concerned about Britain’s moderately high infection rate, maybe we should be happy about it. The more people who get infected now, the less who’ll get infected a few months hence – when the NHS comes under greater pressure.
We’ve already offered the vaccine to all over 50s – three times over in some cases. Why should it matter if another ten thousand 20 year olds catch the virus? Aside from remaining vigilant in hospitals and care homes, there’s really nothing left to do.
I’ve made an alternative headline for the New York Times: ‘Needless Panic: Britain offers an illustration of what happens as Covid becomes endemic’.
To join in with the discussion please make a donation to The Daily Sceptic.
Profanity and abuse will be removed and may lead to a permanent ban.
I think this falls into the “we can’t bang on a on about Sweden anymore and the Brits have a right wing government (ha!)” category. Didn’t read the original article, but I hope they mention the testing rates. And issued a clarification that ultra worried about Covid Germany and Belgium now have the worst rates. I’m sure they did.
Is Covid over? No, of course not. It’s here for good and every October to March we will seen10-40,000 lives lost “with Covid” probably for a long time to come. It’s sad. But if the Times wanted to do a service it would be talking about the coming cancer nightmare in the UK. Right, to highlight a mistake of lockdowns and issues with the sainted NHS, never going to happen.
regarding with SARS2 from my own observations I’m guessing almost zero die OF SARS, it seems a bit like AIDS in that it harms your immune system allowing something else that was going to kill you, to kill you a bit sooner.
Brother Bugnolo states that many of the jabbed could be dead within six months, because by that point in time, they will have no immune system left. There has been a paper recently confirming drops in immunity, I think he is saying this drop will continue until there is nothing left. Always interested to hear what others think of this. It would appear a trifle doomsday, however hes not just talking nonsense so I am asking this – do people believe this is credible or not? Please provide any evidence you have for you answer.
Br. Alexis Bugnolo: Pandemic of the Injected, DNA Modifications & More
https://www.bitchute.com/video/2NecPI5sRVbV/
This is also very interesting from Karen Kingston, who has evidence that the FDA deliberately withheld and suppressed info about the vax injuries and more. V interesting interview
FDA Documents Show COVID-19 Injection a Gain of Function Bioweapon | Karen Kingston on Watch Dog USA
https://www.bitchute.com/video/FJAzovjlKNir/
It’s a real possibility but not a given.
No one knows what the long term effects will be of dicking with the immune system in a new way.
Look on the bright side, fewer people will die of flu. 😉
Well said Noah.
Educated common sense, a rare commodity these days.
Do hope you were taking the piss this article is the worst I’ve seen on this site for a while.
That’s it, 2 comments: move along ladies & genelmen next urgent topic requires your attention.
I have downticked you because I’m not sure what your problem is but it’s clearly irritating you, increasingly so over the last few days.
If you want to stop contributing to the comments please just do it and stop whingeing about it.
Thank you 🙂I have clarified my point below my ‘statement’ on the Les Dawson page.
Where incidentally I came across the first example of outright 🤑commercial spam😡 that I have ever seen on these pages and flagged it appropriately.
I agree, it is deliberate, probably a BBC-derived trick. Its like the BBC where one minute you see images from a war zone which HMG is committing war crimes in, the next minute youre watching cheese rolling in Gloucestershire. Someone said recently that Daily Sceptics and the BBC do indeed overlap, although I cannot remember exactly what the commenter said, if anyone wants to expand on this. DS is controlled opposition, and the tactic is highly likely deliberate and done for nefarious purposes.
What is the nefarious purpose?
To confuse, maybe. I cant say that Im adept in the game of psychological warfare, intentionally messing with peoples heads in a way that is sinister in nature, etc. But the BBC, (and the editor of this website gets gigs on the BBC, so hes in the club), they specialise in messing with peoples heads and ruining peoples lives in the process, denying them the enlightened lives and time they could have for their precious priceless time on Earth. They prefer to steal money from the public, then weaponise their investment against them to do things like convince people that injecting a BIO WEAPON is the way to go, for a virus they are naturally immune to. It doesnt really get much lower than that. Can you imagine personally convincing someone you know to inject a BIO WEAPON into their arm when you know fullwell it can cause them great harm. Can you imagine how sick that would make you, picture the headlines – especially if you persuaded a kid to do it. Now mulitply that one by sixty eight million and thats the level of deceit and crime the BBC gets away with routinely. Utter scum
I think it’s more of a deep desire to stay on topic in which case why put up a new distracting page about Hancock when he got a good kicking here just a couple of days ago?
Some readers like to offer their technical insights, others social commentary. I used to enjoy reporting on the many interesting people I spoke to and things I saw while at complete liberty as an out and about key worker during lockdown 1, lockdown lite, tiers, cancelled xmas and whatever lingered after that.
The old extended roundup was a great vehicle for these ideas to be exchanged; readers dipping in out of the various parts of the exchanges as they fancied.
Because… It’s not about what they say it’s about.
Rather than being concerned about Britain’s moderately high infection rate, maybe we should be happy about it. The more people who get infected now, the less who’ll get infected a few months hence – when the NHS comes under greater pressure.
And to be fair, that was part of the government’s reasoning for not imposing restrictions back in the summer. It makes sense while cases are overwhelming among the young and fit who are very unlikely to get seriously ill and the vulnerable are protected by vaccines. The concern is that the current drop is almost entirely amongst the young and the booster campaign is struggling to keep up.
“The concern is that the current drop is almost entirely amongst the young and the booster campaign is struggling to keep up.”
To whose concern are you referring? Are we to be concerned that the young seem to be developing a healthy natural immunity to a virus (well those who haven’t had the clotshots)? Or is the concern that the roll out of booster shots is too slow (definitely not a concern on my part)?
I’m a little confused by your post.
Anyone who cares about vulnerable people getting seriously ill or dying should be concerned.
At the moment the drop in cases is almost entirely among the young i.e. cases are not dropping in the older age groups – yet. Meanwhile vaccination efficacy is declining and the booster campaign is struggling to keep up. So this presents a risk to those groups. It could well be OK, maybe cases will decline among all age groups as the young stop infecting them, maybe the booster campaign will catch-up, but that is the risk to be aware of.
well it’s obvious.
Stop vaccinating those more at risk from the jabs than COVID which is basically everyone healthy who’s not retired.
It is not quite that obvious. Even if you are not personally at risk you may wish to reduce your chances of infecting someone who is at risk – some people quite like their grandmothers.
“some people quite like their grandmothers.” Fuck off.
May I quote you on that as an example of the sceptic viewpoint?
Come on MTF, you’re better than a cheap shot about caring for grandmothers.
My point was when a young person (and I do not include children in this group) decides whether to get vaccinated it is a more complicated decision than balancing the two very small risks to them personally. If they are infected, they may well pass it on to vulnerable people they know and this is likely to matter to them i.e. most young people care about the risk they present to others. Expressing it as “some people care about their grandmothers” was just meant to be a vivid way of making that point – I am sorry if it comes across as a cheap shot.
I would say most people, including sceptics, care about the risk they present to others. But opinions vary as to what that risk is, what effect the covid “vaccine” might have on it, and what is a sensible balance between awareness of risks to others and basically shutting down normal life forever because of respiratory viruses.
“Reducing your chances of infecting someone” is something which the vaccines completely fail to do.
If they reduce your chances of being infected then they reduce your chances of infecting someone else. There is massive evidence that they reduce your chances of being infected for up to about 5 months.
And then your risk of infection seems to be double that of the unvaccinated. Plus we don’t know whether the vaccines attenuate the immune response making the vaccinated more likely to become infected more regularly. I know one unvaccinated adult who has had covid since September 1st, I have lost count of the number of vaccinated adults, including many who were vaccinated in June and July. As the trials are ongoing it will be very interesting to see whether the vaccinated, who subsequently caught covid, catch it again in disproportionate numbers. Fortunately we have an entire country, NZ, which will provide fabulous data, if it is allowed to be released.
I think you are assuming that Will Jones analysis of the PHE figures is valid. Even he recognises that he does not allow for risk factors or the uncertainly about the unvaccinated population. Even if allowing for these we found that vaccinated people were more likely to get infected it doesn’t follow that getting vaccinated increases your chances of being infected.
If the UKHSA figures are invalid there is nothing to stop the UKHSA issuing a Vaccine efficacy report, something they haven’t done since May. And it isn’t only the UKHSA, we have data from around the world showing the vaccines don’t stop infections or infectiousness. Increasingly we are seeing that the vaccines don’t reduce hospitalisation or death either and we are only in November. Hopefully naturally acquired, endemic equilibrium has been established, which will protect the vulnerable as the vaccines fail further. The concern though is that the vaccines attenuate the immune response, in those who are infected post vaccination, which means their natural immunity will be less robust and considerably less longstanding. That certainly seems to be manifesting itself when you compare Sweden’s situation to, for example, Germany. We will see around the time the six nations kicks off whether the vaccines have caused long term damage through original antigenic sin… those of us who haven’t been vaccinated and have developed natural immunity won’t have to worry about getting it or passing it on though, which is very brave and selfless of us. We sacrificed our chance to go on holiday to protect the vaccinated and all we get… Read more »
The UKHSA figures are not invalid – they just aren’t useful for estimating vaccine efficacy. I don’t know why they don’t issue a vaccine efficacy study – maybe they think there are enough other organisations doing that. It doesn’t prove they are hiding something.
And it isn’t only the UKHSA, we have data from around the world showing the vaccines don’t stop infections or infectiousness.
We have data showing declining efficacy. I am not aware of any study that shows they are ineffective initially or that they actually increase your chances of getting Covid – maybe you have a reference?
We will see around the time the six nations kicks off whether the vaccines have caused long term damage through original antigenic sin… those of us who haven’t been vaccinated and have developed natural immunity won’t have to worry about getting it or passing it on though, which is very brave and selfless of us.
You will only need to worry about long term effects of viral infection plus the risk of reinfection (which is not zero). Anyhow I will bring this forward to Sat 5th February.
So will the vaccinated need to worry about the long term effects of viral infection because the vaccines aren’t vaccines; plus they will have to worry about the long term effects of the vaccines that, not only, haven’t yet completed their safety trials but, because of the unblinding of the trial guinea pigs, never will complete their safety trials.
So therefore in order to reduce your chances of infecting someone who is at risk you must catch and recover from COVID.
The clot shots do not do this, they make it worse!
Why do you hate old people?
The clot shots do not do this, they make it worse!
Don’t believe everything you read on the Internet. The only evidence I am aware of that they make it worse it the highly contentious deductions from the PHE data – and then that only applies to vaccines many months after injection.
Well I’m taking your advice with regard to your posts. I don’t believe a word you spout.
The problem is, it’s not clear cut and any experts not presenting on narrative interpretations lose their career – that is not the way to optimise outcome!
Why do you hate old people?
I am an old person.
Selfhate is the worst form of hate.
Coercing others for your benefit is the worst form of sin.
So choosing not to take a vaccine that doesn’t stop infection or transmission is “hating the old”? The unvaccinated achieved endemic equilibrium months ago and, thereby, offered lasting protection to the old. Healthy people who got themselves vaccinated, mostly for selfish reasons, have kicked the can down the road into the middle of winter. The vaccinated are now catching the virus and spreading it to the vaccinated vulnerable. Hopefully we are close to endemic equilibrium in the vaccinated cohort before winter kicks in properly. If the healthy had not been vaccinated and had got on with their lives the whole business would have been done and dusted months ago.
See my response here.
But vaccination doesn’t stop infection or shedding, it just reduces symptoms.
That assumes that the Covid jabs actually work as vaccines and induce something approaching 100% sterilising immunity. While it seemed for a while that they were doing well against the Wuhan and Alpha strains, with Delta, the virus has evaded the jabs and they are not making a lot of difference to the infection rate or transmission rate. The jabbed are now just as likely to kill your granny as the unjabbed, if not more so and to assume that the jabbed are “safer” is foolhardy. Hence “vaccine passports” are just an illusion of safety. You now have to test everyone if you expect to reduce the spread of the virus, not just the unjabbed.
If we’d stopped at the original plan of just vaccinating the vulnerable old I wonder if it would’ve been over by now with fewer variants and natural immunity.
Does your last sentence actually mean:
”The concern is that the current drop is almost entirely amongst the young and the vaccines are completely failing.”
No. It means what I wrote.
Obviously (?) because the number of hospitalisations and deaths aren’t sufficient to feed the fear porn needs of the jabby jabbys and it’s easier to invent big frightening numbers based on excess faulty testing and then let the jabby jabbys single brain cell conclude that all the positive tests are among the unvaccinated (they can’t comprehend that the ‘anti-vaxxers’ don’t take tests unless compelled to do so in order to access urgent medical services).
Because we are now to be governed through technocratic dictatorship, a rolling number plays a very important role. The idea is that numbers and graphs are presented to the public as a danger/freedom index which can be used a system of control. Numbers go up (red), freedoms go down, numbers go down (green), freedoms go up. A very effective system of control that any dictator in history would have employed if they had had the technology to implement it. I notice the BBC has been trying to do the same thing with climate, like a daily climate crisis level although this one is so palpably daft they might not be able to persist with it.
Bovid’s Extent!
More importantly, why are we still mass testing? Treat the disease, not the hysteria.
Most importantly – why are we doing anything at all like all of this harmful testing and evil gene therapy bio weapon bullshit for a virus which is no more deadly than the common flu which can easily be cured with repurposed safe drugs for the tiny minority who actually get ill with it (if it exists at all), in a world where the common flu no longer exists, so the overall risk of being alive (unless you are vaxxd and potentially if you are unvaxxd but mix a lot with the vaxxd ie shedding) never really changed – unless you actually had a genuine health need, in which case the NHS couldnt give a fuck – if it aint COVID, fuck off and die, seems to be the mantra of our sacred health agency which is now little more than a corporate controlled inhumane cesspit. BREAKING NEWS ! Prof Dr John Ioannidis Stanford University On Real Data On Coronavirus Pandemic – APRIL 2020 COVID confirmed as a CON by the worlds foremost epidemiologist https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btvDL6kIDsA Global perspective of COVID-19 epidemiology for a full-cycle pandemic https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/eci.13423 Global infection fatality rate is 0.15-0.20% (0.03-0.04% in those <70 years) Status of COVID-19 https://www.gov.uk/guidance/high-consequence-infectious-diseases-hcid#status-of-covid-19… Read more »
The BBC haven’t read this
I don’t know, Noah, why do you keep using inaccurate language, like “vaccines” and “infections”?
And writing “less” when you mean “fewer”?
That is indeed the line between civilisation and savagery.
There’s no such thing as “fully vaccinated”, surely people can see that by now?
‘BROTHEL in Austria provides Covid-19 vaccinations for customers – and offers free entry to ‘sauna club’ to anyone who gets jabbed’
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10181289/BROTHEL-Austria-provides-Covid-19-vaccinations-customers.html
It’s only a little prick!
The problem with long lasting natural immunity is that the Covid “vaccines” wipe it out and replace it with something that is both fleeting and many times weaker.
So clearly the “vaccines” have one hell of a downside, before we even look at the horrific carnage being wrought by their short term vaccine side effects. Longer term problems are almost certain, but of course are as yet unknown, well at least to the public.
Also unknown are the likely deleterious effects of assaulting what’s left of people’s immune systems, with inappropriately named boosters every few months or so. It’s so diabolical, that you could hardly make this nasty stuff up, but of course we don’t have to, it’s simply far too real.
Only the totally desperate, the woefully ignorant or the stupidly gullible would allow these extremely dangerous substances to be injected into their own, or their children’s bodies.
I’m sat here, recovering from COVID, reflecting on the past 2 years. I chose not to be vaccinated because it was experimental with unknown long term effects and ignored short term affects. I assessed the risk for myself and decided to take my chances the natural way, now hoping I will be left with an immune system better able to deal with future variants than the vaccinated. I am still shocked by the cultish, authoritarianism that is arising. The censorship and vindictive cancel culture of those that consider themselves “liberal”. The destruction of science and the pursuit of official narrative at any cost to the nation or world. I am left with zero trust of the health system, my government and the institutions. I now doubt every word uttered by the government. Climate change now looks like another scam to increase taxes and pass them to the wealthy. I am beginning to think that when the population is enslaved, half starving they will still blame whatever manufactured threat the government tells them to. The western governments seem hell bent in so many ways to destroy their own people. Why? At some point China will walk in the open door and… Read more »
Agree with every word. Read these articles by Iain Davis this afternoon which really puts the whole thing in context:
https://off-guardian.org/2021/10/27/seizing-everything-the-theft-of-the-global-commons-part-1/
https://off-guardian.org/2021/11/08/seizing-everything-the-theft-of-the-global-commons-part-2/
a question I keep asking myself is ‘why have they chosen to do this now?’ This article goes some way toward explaining this (and why they are in such a rush to push this bullshit through).
Very well said!
Needless Suffering: Britain offers a warning of what happens when a country ignores Covid.
Just as it used to be with governor DeathSantis, the NYT will wrongly claim that such a country is a slaughterhouse where an uncaring government effectively murders innocents by the thousand while giant rats roam the countryside, the dead go unburied etc, etc …
But realistically, this just means that the NYT is crappy propaganda outlet and shouldn’t be trusted when reporting on the weather of yesterday.
They test for the flu since they’ve never isolated Covid-19. Which makes me wonder how they can tell there is a delta variant. They never isolated the virus but they use a test to show the damage of a solution does on monkey kidney cells then show the cellular debris as proof of the virus. So, they can use this method to claim an UNENDING! amount of variants. A lot of cancers and “viruses” are probably just different forms of parasites. Since the tests can’t differentiate between cold and flu and covid then doesn’t that mean ivermectin cures both the cold and the flu? Welcome to “they’ve been lying to us our entire lives about everything”. Get your Ivermectin while you still can! https://ivmpharmacy.com
This deserves a second comment: A headline like this is also a stark warning that our newly regained freedom to live our own lives remains at risk of being taken away again for as long the global Chinese propaganda campaign trying to push Chinese methods for “organizing society in a healthy way” is still ongoing and at least a sizable minority of our ruling caste remains committed to bend over whenever President (!) Xi (!) demands that.
We could do with a resurrected bit of McCarthyism here.
“We’ve already offered the vaccine to all over 50s – three times over in some cases. Why should it matter if another ten thousand 20 year olds catch the virus? Aside from remaining vigilant in hospitals and care homes, there’s really nothing left to do.”
Indeed.
Spot on, Noah. What matters is not how many people test positive, because the virus is unstoppable, but how to stop those who do acquire it from getting very sick. The rates among vaccinated and unvaccinated are irrelevant. The priority should be early identification of those who are going to get sick, and early appropriate treatment, which I have argued sinceApril last year.
Good article, Noah. Interestingly, you raise the issue that I’ve been wondering about. Just how many people in the UK have had coronavirus infection? The only way of knowing that would be by publishing cumulative positive PCR tests (yes I know, false positives etc) We are often told (eg by Zoe) that, say “1 in 53” are currently infected Can’t be far off herd immunity? (Whatever that now means)
I believe the government is running a herd immunity policy, allow covid to spread around the country and vaccination will prevent severe illness and deaths. In countries like Sweden where this policy was followed they death rates are far lower than Europe’s and show the way to go. I remember about a month ago itv did a news report on Portugal where it was claimed the rate of covid was so much lower than here because of vaccination. With winter coming will Portugal be able to retain this low rate or will they find just like Israel and now here the need for boosters.
No one ever appears to consider the NNT for the remaining unjabbed young people. How many under 18-s have to be jabbed to prevent a single death? It’s a big number. I’ve seen claims that to prevent ONE death from Covid-19, you will kill something like 116 young people from the adverse effects of the jabs. Does anyone have some data that illuminates this reality?
You hit the point where the effort to achieve a single “saved life” becomes exponentially more difficult at what level? Around 60% of the population jabbed?
I repeat what I have been saying for nearly two years – what matters is properly treating those who get very sick, having identified them early. There are at risk groups for this. I still believe that vaccination has some protective effect but, like flu jabs, it’s far from perfect. The big question is whether other countries adopt a similar strategy because if they don’t we will find that UK citizens won’t be able to travel anywhere…