Why Sceptics Like Me Lost the Argument

In my latest Spectator column I’ve revisited the theme of why lockdown sceptics lost the argument – and I say this in spite of believing another national lockdown in England is quite unlikely.

I’m optimistic that the government won’t implement ‘Plan B’, let alone impose another lockdown – but not because sceptics like me have won the argument. Why do I say that? Because the public debate is about whether another lockdown is necessary, with the participants on both sides taking it for granted that non-pharmaceutical interventions are an effective way of suppressing infections. For at least a year, sceptics have been arguing that these don’t work, pointing to numerous research studies showing that the rise and fall of infections in different regions of the world has no correlation with stay-at-home orders, mask mandates, business and school closures, etc. But this argument has fallen on deaf ears.

One explanation – the one I like best – is that we made the mistake of trying to appeal to reason. This was a point made by David McGrogan, a professor at Northumbria law school, in a piece for my sceptical website. ‘I am somebody who encourages students to investigate and debate facts for a living. So this has been a very bitter pill for me to swallow indeed, but the reality is that most people are just not actually interested in finding out the truth for themselves. They are much more interested in conforming with what they perceive to be the “moral truth” – the prevailing moral norm.’ The reason the vast majority of the public supported lockdowns is because they believed they were the ‘right’ thing to do.

Of course, the lockdown enthusiasts wouldn’t have been so quick to conform to that ‘moral truth’ without believing that lockdowns actually did what they said on the tin. But I was astonished by how many intelligent people just swallowed the government line without subjecting it to proper scrutiny – particularly as lockdowns meant the surrender of our liberty on an unprecedented scale, as Lord Sumption has pointed out ad infinitum. It was as if such people were yearning for the social solidarity usually available only during wartime. And the flipside of that – denouncing anyone who refused the accept the restrictions – also had wide appeal. No doubt the government helped this process along by spending hundreds of millions bombarding us with propaganda, much of it designed by behavioural psychologists to penetrate our reptile brains.

But I go on to say that sceptics have to accept some responsibility for their failure to persuade more people that lockdowns don’t work.

Common sense dictates that if you confine most people to their homes then infections will start to fall, so if we’re going to persuade people that lockdowns don’t work we need a compelling theory as to why that hypothesis is false. We never came up with one. We also got a lot of things wrong at the beginning, such as saying there wouldn’t be a second wave and, when the second wave was upon us, claiming it was a ‘casedemic’ not an epidemic. I don’t think we got more things wrong than the enthusiasts – take their prediction that daily infections would rise to 100,000 after ‘freedom day’, for instance – but given that we were arguing against the prevailing wisdom we couldn’t afford to make any mistakes. In retrospect, I wish I’d been more cautious.

Worth reading in full.

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Nitrambo
Nitrambo
4 years ago

A bit of a one sided contest when TPTB hold all the cards and as Tony Blair indicated all the people are in place.

bOrgkilLaH1of7
4 years ago
Reply to  Nitrambo

Exactly and the timeline trail to where we are now… goes back to at least 2012.

Back in then the NIH held a conference to gauge the temp and discuss the funding of questionable GoF research work on HPAI H5N1 flu viruses, here are some choice panel Q/As

https://youtu.be/ZdTRIgrgmn8?t=4948
https://youtu.be/j6_qPZm9bNM?t=3864
https://youtu.be/4fsVN34LRb8?t=6828
https://youtu.be/Gnhb9-qjM-4?t=5653
https://youtu.be/j6_qPZm9bNM?t=1670

And yes Fauci was a key player/driver in extending the validity of gain-of-function in this particular conference opening.

https://youtu.be/BACqqgRpktA?t=854

So how did the NIH almost a decade later fund the controversial bat flu virus work, via the back door and ECOHealth Allance of course farming the work into the Wuhan Institute. This lab operated outside of western legal jurisdiction and frameworks, and pushed the research at just BSL2 level?

Nothing to see here folks… move along… move along.

Nuremberg Trial 2.0 is needed right now and we need an immediate stop to these compromised and useless clot shots.

1630623015969.jpg
cornubian
4 years ago
Reply to  bOrgkilLaH1of7

The timeline trail of where we are now goes back to the Russian Revolution – and even way back further than that.

karenovirus
4 years ago
Reply to  cornubian

Via the Frankfurt School who fled Nazi Germany to set up shop in America.

Amtrup
4 years ago
Reply to  cornubian

Back to the highly unusual and improbable mutation in wild grass plants that took place at the end of the last ice age, around 14-12k bc, in a very small corner of the world, the so called “Cradle of Civilisation”/”Fertile Crescent” in the Middle East, and nowhere else, which gave rise to the largest protein molecule that we ever eat, by far, which is gluten, present in wheat, rye and barley, and which contains an opioid.

Almost as soon as this mutation occurred the humans in that very small part of the world invented agriculture; they started sowing and harvesting this opioid-containing plant, putting in backbreaking hours of work, building fences and storage facilities to protect the opioid-rich seed/grain and permanent, rectangular houses around that to live in.

They also simultaneously invented religion/gods and built temples etc.

This period of unusual behaviour ( from the previously nomadic hunter-gatherer to the settled farming lifestyle ) is known as the Neolithic Revolution. We have never recovered. 🙂 We’ve been addicts of one sort or another ever since.

karenovirus
4 years ago
Reply to  Amtrup

We also shrank after abandoning hunter gathering, only recovering our normal size after the industrial revolution saved us from agricultural enslavement.

DanClarke
DanClarke
4 years ago

I don’t believe there are many critical thinkers now. Most prefer to learn from the internet, and one view is more than enough, so the loudest narrative is the winner. . The behavioural psychopaths have worked well, but not just with covid. Climate change too, we have one of the most benign climates in the world, yet, they give heavy rain or wind a Name now! They have actually persuaded people that the climate in the UK is changing into an unmitigated disaster zone if we don’t do something soon.

gooner2826
gooner2826
4 years ago
Reply to  DanClarke

Even those who go to the internet are probably more informed than those who just watch one media outlet on the tv – as at least there’s always associated comments to posts online which argue both sides of a narrative.

My mum is the biggest example of this going, if sky news told her that the sky was green today – she wouldn’t look out her window to check the truth behind this, she would just blindly believe them and then probably tell all her friends about it

DanClarke
DanClarke
4 years ago
Reply to  gooner2826

I agree, got relatives who are the same with the BBC, I get well the ‘bbc said’ all of the time. The internet is a good source of info but I bet most don’t delve, they seem to see an answer and stick with it.

karenovirus
4 years ago
Reply to  DanClarke

The rest of the world used to similarly rely on the BBC World Service but recognise now what a shallow version of itself it has become so switched off in droves.
Shame its home audience don’t realise the same for its domestic output.

DrAnnoyed
DrAnnoyed
4 years ago
Reply to  karenovirus

The home service is even worse than the world, the world service goes out all over the world and they have to be careful how big a lie they dare tell, they mostly simply omit discussing inconvenient stories. The UK services know the viewers/listeners don’t see different pictures of the world around them so can tell much bolder untruths.

karenovirus
4 years ago
Reply to  DrAnnoyed

When out and about as a key worker during lockdown proper I used to listen to R4 8-10am for the news, Today and daily magazine discussion programme.
Once confirmed in my scepticism I found their bias and one sidedness laughably easy to spot.

Jeremy Vine on R2 in the afternoon was a little more difficult as he did try to push the boundaries now and then.

FrankFisher
4 years ago
Reply to  DanClarke

MK Ultra wasn’t stopped because it failed but because they figured it out

DanClarke
DanClarke
4 years ago
Reply to  FrankFisher

Mind Games, covid will go the same way

thinksaboutit
thinksaboutit
4 years ago
Reply to  DanClarke

First they fool you with covid, then climate change. The next thing they will say is the earth isn’t flat!

DrAnnoyed
DrAnnoyed
4 years ago
Reply to  thinksaboutit

Covid is real, the only lie is that totalitarianism somehow helps handle it, climate change is real, the only lie is that handling it should require changes to ordinary people’s lives (convert all on-grid energy to nuclear and renewables, switch steel, concrete and fertiliser production to emission free processes (energy intensive but with all that nuclear you’ll have energy to spare), put a hydrogen pump at every petrol station, offer a prize fund for developing a hydrogen powered airliner or switch those to carbon neutral biofuel, with this done the market will solve everything else), the earth is quite spherical (technically an oblate spheroid with an equatorial bulge). We have landed men on the moon, and most vaccines (that is to say not the covid ones) do work to stop transmission of disease.

RickH
4 years ago
Reply to  DrAnnoyed

 most some vaccines”

HoMojo
4 years ago
Reply to  DrAnnoyed

‘most vaccines (that is to say not the covid ones) do work to stop transmission of disease.‘ That’s still debatable. There’s plenty of evidence to suggest that many of these diseases were due to environmental poisoning. Polio and DDT for example,. I know plenty of people who have never been vaxxed and have very robust immune systems, including my ex now aged 60. Her GP advised her against all vaxxes because of a severe asthmatic condition. She has suffered from chronic respiratory infections from time to time, now all but gone since I suggested a daily intake of 4000iu of Vitamin D..

karenovirus
4 years ago
Reply to  HoMojo

Smallpox, around since ancient times as a worldwide mass killer was eradicated by vaccines late last century.

miketa1957
miketa1957
4 years ago
Reply to  karenovirus

Interesting question.

Smallpox vaccinations were mandatory roughly 1855-1895 in the UK (wikipedia has the details), but that stopped because lots of people refused them (belief that vaccination drives created terburculosis outbreaks, also “serum sickness”, this belief was held by many in the medical and scientific community at the time). After 1895 the rate fell off and there was never again any mass vaccination, yet Smallpox still disappeared.Why? One suggestion is that Cowpox actually was a Smallpox variant, became endemic and outcompeted Smallpox. Or, maybe, living conditions and general public health improved to the point where nobody had any problems (a bit like Scarlet Fever has disappeared).

So maybe the vaccines eradicated it world-wide, but in the UK? Good question.

Amtrup
4 years ago
Reply to  miketa1957

I read that measles mortality is massively reduced in those with good diets containing plenty of Vitamin A. I wonder if Smallpox was equally linked to dietary deficiencies of a certain place and/or era.

Fiona Walker
4 years ago
Reply to  Amtrup

Then surely it should still be endemic in the many shitholes of the world, from Yemen to the favelas, Afghanistan, any refugee hellhole and the Indian slums? Where has it gone as these people have neither goods diets nor sanitation?

Amtrup
4 years ago
Reply to  HoMojo

Very much this ^^^^

Barbara Baker
Barbara Baker
4 years ago
Reply to  DrAnnoyed

”covid is real….climate change is real….we have put men on the moon ….most vaccines work to stop transmission of disease”
you forgot 9/11 truthers are conspiracy theorists
Do you have data for this???
Plenty on this site and in the wider world would vehemently disagree on some or all of these assertions.

This is the point, all the prevailing narrative is accepted as a base line and then mitigation is offered…….rather than confront the underlying issue….TPTB need to provide the sound data and reasoning for their decisions, with counter argument and debate…. but this was never going to happen. That was what was underestimated….

and now lather, rinse, repeat

peyrole
peyrole
4 years ago
Reply to  DrAnnoyed

Cov-Sars-2 virus may be real, the disease/effect called covid-19 is nebulous, no idea if its caused by the named virus or something completely different, probably sometimes yes, sometimes no.
Climate Change is real, its been happening since the formation of this planet. Is man causing CO2 increases in the atmosphere that endanger the planet eco-system? Absolutely no proof. Has the atmospheric level of CO2 been higher in the past? Yes many times, sometimes 10x or more. Were there humans around at the time? Not often. Is the planet ‘average temperature increasing? According to the best measure we have from the satellites, not for 25 years. And before then average increase was a function of slighty higher minimums, not increases in maximums. Is there actual recorded increases in ‘extreme weather’ events?No, just lots of selective stats which ignore anything over about 20 years ago.
Given the above would a sane person a) get injected with an experimental gene therapy and/or b) throw away a perfectly good gas boiler ; NO!
Which of course is why governments are trying their best to turn the majority of their populations slightly insane.

David101
4 years ago
Reply to  DanClarke

There’s two diametrically-opposed attitudes concerning internet vs. broadcast media as sources of information. On the one hand, there are those who can’t particularly see a motivation behind lying or misleading the public, therefore anything coming across official channels must be sacrosanct. And although there is a chance that that is true at face-value, the reality is that coverage is extremely narrow, and only approaches a topic from one angle, hence obfuscating its contest and rendering the content misleading. But this group of people cannot see this fatal flaw in using, say, the BBC to inform one’s general worldview, and see the internet as purveyor of misinformation, the forum for any given nutter, or the arena where the current “infodemic” is playing out. On the other hand, the second category of people believe that, along with the championing of diversity in race, religion, gender, etc, it follows that informational diversity has its merits too. Diverse information sources contribute to an overall synthesis of ideas, and diversity of opinion comes together to settle on what is likely to be closer to the truth than the single, myopic narrative that is peddled over our “telescreens”. The main reason the establishment narrative got so… Read more »

lorrinet
lorrinet
4 years ago
Reply to  DanClarke

I always offer the information that the summers were so hot in the fourth century that the Romans grew grapes up in Northumberland from which they made wine. Generally, though, I just get a blank stare, because people don’t bother to process information they’re not interested in.

Julian
4 years ago

I’ve revisited the theme of why lockdown sceptics lost the argument – and I say this in spite of believing another national lockdown in England is quite unlikely.”

We lost the argument (if you want to put it that way) because every powerful institution on the planet got behind the Big Lie from the start, egged on by the world’s second most powerful country. And they outspent us on propaganda by a factor of thousands or millions. No contest.

TY, we are still locked down, in the grip of the folly and evil that is Covidianism. We did not win, we lost. It will take decades, at least, for the Big Lie to be exposed for what it is. The war continues.

Fingerache Philip
Fingerache Philip
4 years ago
Reply to  Julian

Keep buggering on!!

RickH
4 years ago
Reply to  Julian

Exactly. And there will be more cutting and pasting of history like this.

Cane Corso
Cane Corso
4 years ago
Reply to  Julian

The War continues, as you say Julian. Imagining this is a debate is rather like thinking of writing a thoughtful letter to the editor of the Völkischer Beobachter. We must debate as we must continue to argue for our civilisation’s pillars of fossil fuel use, the inventions of the 19th and early 20th centuries, and above all free speech and humour.
But the fight was taken onto the streets early on. And that’s where it must continue.

James Kreis
4 years ago
Reply to  Julian

The same powers that made sure Jeremy Corbyn got nowhere near Downing Street.

Splattt
4 years ago
Reply to  James Kreis

It was Jeremy Corbyn and his policies that made sure Corbyn never got near downing street.

WeWantEvidence
4 years ago
Reply to  Splattt

Well, not entirely. Had it not been for the machinations of the Labour Party head office in 2017, Labour would probably have won that election. Would it have been better than having another round of Whig/Tory control? Doubtful. The so-called “Left” has been all about MORE lockdowns EARLIER and LONGER and nothing actually innovative. But ironically, we have taken a huge step in the direction of Chinese-style Communist Totalitarianism under the banner of the “Conservative” Party that would probably NEVER have happened under Corbyn.

realarthurdent
4 years ago

I think a more convincing argument to explain the failure of many people to respond to logic and reason is the one put forward by Prof Matias Mesnet – that about 40% of the population have been effectively hypnotised by the 24 hour propaganda and are actually comforted by there being an “enemy” out there to focus their anxiety on and being part of a big group fighting that “enemy”. It has given their lives purpose and, ironically, eliminated a lot of the unconscious anxiety they felt pre-COVID. And they don’t want to go back to their pre-COVID purposeless, isolated, anxious existence.

The full interview with Reiner Fuellmich where he explains how “mass formation” works is here:

https://www.bitchute.com/video/RIzxcU8nBYQX/

The solution, he says, is not to batter people over the head with facts and data, because it wasn’t facts and data that took them into their hypnotic state. But rather wake them up by asking them open questions, using humour and satire and cause them to start questioning things for themselves.

RickH
4 years ago
Reply to  realarthurdent

The analogy that I use is that of a Derren Brown set-up. How many ‘victims’ of those would have denied that they would succumb?

Mr Dee
4 years ago
Reply to  RickH

This is exactly right. I’ve watched all the Derren Brown shows, and seen him live, and his methods are what the Government is using now, on a mass scale. Because I watched his shows and read all his books, I was aware of the techniques when they were being used by the government’s Nudge unit – maybe why the propaganda has had no effect on me.

Lucan Grey
4 years ago
Reply to  Mr Dee

Hypnotic techniques have never worked on me, and I’ve always been interested in understanding why they don’t.

But then, to me, the idea that the emperor ever had any clothes is a preposterous notion.

lorrinet
lorrinet
4 years ago
Reply to  Lucan Grey

They’ve never worked on me either. I’ve been to four different hypnotists over the years with no results. But then, I have a natural suspicion of authority; propaganda washes over me, as does advertising. I’m also very intuitive, if that means anything, and my brain is always on the alert – like when they told me there was a dangerous covid pandemic….

chunky lafunga
chunky lafunga
4 years ago
Reply to  Mr Dee

Funnily enough I had intended to go and watch Derren Brown’s live show here in Brum tonight, but the theatre (The Alexandra, happy to name and shame) is requiring proof of ‘covid status’ to permit entry, so I am boycotting as I refuse to show papers for a night at a theatre. I found it somewhat amusing that most of the stuff that you can learn from the man about human behaviour/psychology can be applied to what we’ve seen over the past however many months as you rightly say Mr Dee, now I can’t even go to watch his of all people’s show without being ‘nudged’ by the very same behavioural psychology I no doubt would’ve learned more of were I going

Lucan Grey
4 years ago
Reply to  realarthurdent

You hypnotise a small section of the population who become rabid fanatics, and then a good chunk of the rest of the population go along “to avoid upsetting anybody”.

What you end up having to do is a full cult member deprogramming exercise.

Gregoryno6
4 years ago
Reply to  realarthurdent

Here’s my latest contribution to the humour and satire fund.
Does this meme make Dan’s ego look big?

Well Done Dan.jpg
chunky lafunga
chunky lafunga
4 years ago
Reply to  realarthurdent

I think it might have been Mesnet that said it, but I remember hearing that the collectivism etc means that all the coronabollocks has essentially become part of people’s identity now because they’re so heavily invested. Therefore when you criticise, or show scepticism etc the Covidian perceives it as an actual sleight on their identity, the same way a religious person does, and therefore reacts very badly, or with hostility, and desperately try to cling on to their belief etc. Thus, as you say it’s probably not facts and data which will win the argument, in the same way facts and data don’t work to convince many religious adherents to question their faith.

gooner2826
gooner2826
4 years ago

As children we’re told to ask questions, yet do this as an adult and you’re a conspiracy nut.

Unfortunately it’s easier for people to believe everything the government says, in the hope it will make all this go away – rather than critically think for themselves and look at what they know, not what they’re told. Like anything in life, being spoon fed is super easy and convenient but having to do something yourself is much harder – it’s no different for people taking in information and looking at cold hard facts either.

realarthurdent
4 years ago
Reply to  gooner2826

A big issue I’ve found is the short attention span people now have as a result of social media and 24 hour rolling news full of soundbites.

I have a group of friends who I’ve known for about 30 years now. I am the only one of them who is not on facebook or Twitter and does not have a TV licence. While debating the COVID issue with them I would write long detailed well thought out arguments and they would simply not read them to the end (and these are people I’ve worked with who I know were perfectly capable and willing in the past to read and write long emails and documents).

People have simply lost the ability to concentrate or think about issues in any depth. Even intelligent, diligent professionals.

HelenaHancart
HelenaHancart
4 years ago
Reply to  realarthurdent

Feel your pain, real. I’m not on any formal social media, not have a tv licence (or even a tv at the mo) and I’ve noticed how low people’s abilities are, to maintain a conversation before changing it mid sentence into something less complex. Many of my friends don’t even grasp the seriousness of the situation we in right now. None have any idea of what is going on in government behind their back, and they don’t want to know either.

Fingerache Philip
Fingerache Philip
4 years ago
Reply to  realarthurdent

Mrs FP and myself are almost 73 and our attitude now is: Do not believe anything on MSM.
Old Black country saying:”Doe believe onythin yome tode and only half that wot yoe con see”

gooner2826
gooner2826
4 years ago
Reply to  realarthurdent

Couldn’t agree more. We live in a rushed society where we take in small news bites (whether that be listening to the radio on the way to work, a quick scan of the news etc.) which make us know a little bit about something which makes us feel educated and in the know, but never enough to fully grasp it or understand it.

Whenever I’ve put forward material facts, the same as you, the replies I’ve always had follow these small bitesized parts of media narrative they’ve taken in

“Covid bad” – “vaccine good” – “vaccine safe”

No full grasp of the narrative, just regurgitating what they’ve heard and they think they’re fully understanding of the situation. Mind boggling

karenovirus
4 years ago
Reply to  gooner2826

Occasionally my car Radio would retune itself to Radio 1. Sometimes I did not realise until the 2 minute news came on. For some reason they feel the need to run a rumbling/’exciting’ soundtrack to keep their listeners attention.

DrAnnoyed
DrAnnoyed
4 years ago
Reply to  realarthurdent

I have had that experience with pre-panicdemic friends, they just don’t seem capable of processing information which disagrees with their programmed mindset.

Fingerache Philip
Fingerache Philip
4 years ago
Reply to  gooner2826

Comfort zone(s)?

concrete68
4 years ago
Reply to  gooner2826

I ask questions of the “conspiracy nuts”and they don’t like it either..seems like most folk like to pick a side and stick with it.

Mr Dee
4 years ago
Reply to  gooner2826

Watch the latest UK Column, and you’ll see an example of how, in the UK, the Branch-Covidian agitators view us – the British population – as little more than children, to be spoon-fed, and punished if we dare say no to them.

01:02:13 – Lockdowns For The Unvaccinated

https://www.ukcolumn.org/ukcolumn-news/uk-column-news-27th-october-2021

concrete68
4 years ago
Reply to  Mr Dee

The bit I watched was a bizarre attack on Charlize Theron, firstly for her sad upbringing then her choice of film roles…if this is the best we can do then no wonder we lost the propaganda war.

Mr Dee
4 years ago
Reply to  concrete68

Yes, that was odd and unnecessary.

RickH
4 years ago
Reply to  concrete68

I like the UKColumn. But all news channels have to be watched critically and selectively. The irrelevance of Theron (and ‘celebrity’ in general) as an advocate was a fair point, but there is a tendency, on the part of Brian Gerrish, particularly, to move beyond the evidence in order to paint a pre-conceived exaggerated conclusion that suits his particular predelictions.

Julian
4 years ago
Reply to  concrete68

if this is the best we can do then no wonder we lost the propaganda war.”

We were outspent by factor one trillion (pick some huge number). Every powerful institution on the planet was/is against us and up their necks in it.

mishmash
4 years ago
Reply to  Mr Dee

Another dry, soul-less husk shilling for the agenda, completely ignoring the data showing vast majority of covid deaths are double jabbed with more than twice the infection rate of the un-jabbed.

WE WOULD’NT KNOW THAT IF EVERYONE WAS JABBED. WE ARE THE CONTROL GROUP AND THE AGENDA CANNOT TOLERATE IT.

I took that UKHSA data to work the other day to show people and try to break the propaganda spell – they were dumbfounded and confused by it. Hopefully the cogs were greased enough for them to investigate further on their own, but it’s much easier to just switch off and believe the corporate media eh?

Innocent bystander
4 years ago
Reply to  mishmash

Which means that we won.

Catee
4 years ago
Reply to  gooner2826

At an indoor bowling match yday someone asked if I’d had my booster, conversation went as follows..
“haven’t had the first two so can’t have a booster”
“everybody needs to get vaccinated to protect people like me, I’ve only got one lung and my husband there has leukaemia”
“but if you’re vaccinated what difference does it make if I am or not. Why should everyone including children be vaccinated with an experimental jab to protect you?”
“they’re not experimental they’ve been working on them five years”
“you’re right they have been working on them, unfortunately in all the animal tests they subsequently died which is why they’ve never had them licensed. To be honest, if I was that worried about my health I probably wouldn’t be in an enclosed space with lots if people and I most definitely wouldn’t think that everyone had a duty to protect me”
There ended the conversation, I’m not sure which bit shut them up.

HelenaHancart
HelenaHancart
4 years ago

“But I go on to say that sceptics have to accept some responsibility for their failure to persuade more people that lockdowns don’t work.”

One word: Sweden. My go-to example everytime.

RickH
4 years ago
Reply to  HelenaHancart

I don’t beat myself up over that failure to persuade. I have tried a range of strategies, and have realized that little penetrates a brainwashed mind within a controlled environment.

mishmash
4 years ago
Reply to  HelenaHancart

‘sceptics have to accept some responsibility for their failure to acknowledge the so-called conspiracy theorists have been correct over and over again, and by dismissing them as quacks we are pissing on our own chips.’

RickH
4 years ago
Reply to  mishmash

No. The conflation with wider, more debatable issues is, I have found, one of the major barriers in convincing the unconvinced. It makes dismissal of the core issues much easier.

mishmash
4 years ago
Reply to  RickH

The unconvinced are trapped by their perception of what can and can’t be real. The evidence is all there for those willing to look at it.

gooner2826
gooner2826
4 years ago
Reply to  HelenaHancart

I think he’s missed the mark here. If you go against the government and the general narrative you have to have facts, figures and a well constructed logical argument to still be blissfully ignored or labeled as incorrect.

Go with the government and their consensus and make a flippant statement or claim with 0 evidence or factual background and it’s accepted as ‘correct’.

The cold hard facts have been put forward many many times, but some people are just too far gone or unable to accept that the actual facts aren’t what they’ve been told to believe. It doesn’t matter what you put forward to these individuals, no matter how compelling, they aren’t willing to accept an alternative so it’s pointless

FrankFisher
4 years ago

Because the media is part of a global conspiracy to overturn our way of life and turn us into semi-automated slaves.

This isn’t hard to figure out. Everything we feared is real.

sceptic
sceptic
4 years ago

If we kill all, covid will end. Don’t need lockdowns – do what Uttar Pradesh did.

Mr Dee
4 years ago
Reply to  sceptic

.

Screenshot 2021-10-28 at 11.08.20.png
GlassHalfFull
4 years ago

With so many obese people in the country and a large healthy but ageing population who are at risk of illness even before Covid it didn’t take much to persuade them that Covid is a lot worse than it actually is.
The alternative media didn’t help the cause when many of them took the ridiculous line that viruses do not exist.
People like Lanka, Kaufman, Cowan et al persuaded people like David Icke, Jon Rappaport, Mike Adams etc. who all have a huge internet followings that viruses do not exist.
It was difficult to persuade any sceptics in the general public when the deluded alternative media were telling them that SARS-CoV-2 is not real and a hoax.
The Global Elites response to Covid was a hoax but the virus is real but no worse than a bad flu season which was something of which we could not convince the general public.
Toby Young et al should be congratulated for this website which stuck to the statistics and the science.

RickH
4 years ago

MMMmmm … The captured apologist for the repulsive Mr Toad emerges : Johnson “just hasn’t been able to impose his will until now.” Awww … diddums … poor ickle fing, bullied by all those other nasties. “whisper it — I’m almost certain he’s a lockdown sceptic.” Desperately trying to get back on the court bandwagon, TobY/ Pull the other f.ing leg. The snivelling, lying self-seeking twat has simply sussed that political progress lies in another direction. “the success of the vaccine rollout” You WHAT!!!!!????? That rollout that created a wave of mortality of the vulnerable and did absolutely f. all in terms of infection and transmission, and provides the vehicle for anti-democracy? Not that all is wrong. The sceptical case has been a miserable whimper, even if entirely correct after the emergence of further data at each stage. And yes, rationality is a weak weapon in the face of a studied brainwashing campaign backed by unprecedented censorship. (But no mention of the total capture of the media and censorship as the significant factor in terms of information- ?). As to wrongness : for the record there have been only two ‘waves’ in a sea of predicted ones and little ripples,… Read more »

DrAnnoyed
DrAnnoyed
4 years ago
Reply to  RickH

Trying to deny Johnson is personally responsible for a lot of the crimes against humanity commited in the UK since March 2020 smlels very much like how when Germans in the Reich disliked a policy they always said “surely Hitler can’t be responsible for this, it must be those other guys beside him”. Hitler was responsible, so is Johnson. However much their underlings did the dirty work, they knew it was going on, let it continue, and actively encouraged it, even if in Johnson’s case largely behind the scenes.

karenovirus
4 years ago
Reply to  DrAnnoyed

The belief that the great leader can do no wrong and is being misled by his henchmen is common throughout history from ancient times.

karenovirus
4 years ago
Reply to  RickH

Down our way we didn’t have much of a first wave or second and that was it; the NHS was never remotely overwhelmed, the Johny-come-Lately Nightingale was never used and neither was the vast emergency morge.

There is plenty of anecdotal evidence suggesting a pre-wave (autumn/winter 2019/20) but if they stopped talking about Covid tomorrow it might never have happened, bar the collateral damage from lockdown.

divoc origi 19
4 years ago

Does anyone else ever wake up and think “jeez… maybe it’s me that is wrong after all?”

Are we also so blinded by our scepticism?

mishmash
4 years ago
Reply to  divoc origi 19

No, the evil is spreading and every day my resolve to resist gets stronger.

Mr Dee
4 years ago
Reply to  divoc origi 19

Never. And no. I question myself about this all the time, and I can’t persuade myself I’m wrong. I can’t find others to persuade me either, and I’ve looked.

HelzBelz
4 years ago
Reply to  divoc origi 19

Frequently. So I go and take a dose of BBC evidence free, illogical, hysterical so called ‘news’ and I compare and contrast with what is reported and referenced here and other non-mainstream sites. And that tells me all I need to know about what is truth vs what is lies and propaganda.

karenovirus
4 years ago
Reply to  divoc origi 19

Nope, not since emerging from my own private lockdown that lasted the week before bozo announced his on the nation.
Spent most of it ‘in drink’ and never have seen that broadcast.
The predictability of what was coming next, and it was frequently predicted here and elswhere, kept my scepticism strong.

Mogwai
4 years ago
Reply to  divoc origi 19

A quick look at one of the many horrific videos coming out of Victoria, Australia should solve that in a jiffy.

DoctorCOxford
DoctorCOxford
4 years ago

A good argument. Sadly, yes, those of us skeptical of lockdowns (or at least of their cost-benefit efficacy) we’re too optimistic post April. I for one thought seasonality was the biggest factor and then Delta rained on our Spring parade.

But I don’t think any of us was really well-versed on the psychological games being played with people. No, we weren’t thinking rationally (can hear Agent K in Men in Black about people being dumb, panicky and dangerous) in good times. But when you are subjected to a government approved campaign that the CCP probably envied, it was always going to be uphill. A willing media that published raw data workout context didn’t help either.

I do agree that we are unlikely to even see Plan B again. Beyond the fact that everyone with half a brain cell understands that masks with far larger pores than the virus can’t stop spread, the truth about vaccine passports has been revealed. But getting Hancock and Gove away from the switch matters more. Javid understands cost-benefit analysis, and that should save us.

CynicalRealist
4 years ago
Reply to  DoctorCOxford

I do agree that we are unlikely to even see Plan B again. Beyond the fact that everyone with half a brain cell understands that masks with far larger pores than the virus can’t stop spread, the truth about vaccine passports has been revealed. But getting Hancock and Gove away from the switch matters more. Javid understands cost-benefit analysis, and that should save us.

I think that you may be over-estimating the logic of the general public, The increase in face nappies in shops over the past few weeks, as the government and media ramped up the rhetoric, shows that many still can’t think for themselves!

isobar
4 years ago
Reply to  CynicalRealist

Yes, after falling quite rapidly up to the end of September I have noticed that mask wearing in supermarkets has suddenly shot us again after Javid’s recent press conference and BoJo admitting that the jabs don’t stop you being infected or passing the virus on.

RW
RW
4 years ago
Reply to  CynicalRealist

There has been no general increase here, just gullible individuals wearing them again.

karenovirus
4 years ago
Reply to  RW

Just one in the co-op yesterday, fussy old git in his dads clothes creating a queue at the till while he decided what to put where, coupons for this and that emerging from different pockets, tv mags had to be facing up, couldn’t find his wallet; you know who I mean.
He was wearing a welders shield

Innocent bystander
4 years ago
Reply to  RW

“Many are destined to reason wrongly; others, not to reason at all; and others, to persecute those who do reason.” ~ Voltaire

DrAnnoyed
DrAnnoyed
4 years ago
Reply to  DoctorCOxford

“I do agree that we are unlikely to even see Plan B again.”
I don’t know how to speculate on likelhoods, I hope we won’t, but what we need to have is plans to resist it IF it happens, however likely or not we may think it. The presence of thsoe plans should also help act as a deterrent against Plan B.

Julian
4 years ago
Reply to  DrAnnoyed

I think it would be better for us if there were to be a Plan B implemented. Our only hope for a swift victory is for the Satanists to turn the heat up so much that the frogs realise they are being boiled. But in the main they are too smart for that. Instead we will have vaxx passports, threats of lockdowns, travel restrictions, persecution of the unvaxxed, evil mass vaccination of healthy children, billions wasted on mass testing, covid safety bollocks everywhere, and the survival of the Big Lie for decades. Lockdown is not over, it has just moved into a new phase. WE LOST (for now).

karenovirus
4 years ago
Reply to  DrAnnoyed

There will be nothing like the 99% compliance that happened with lockdown 1 but with winter upon us and if all ‘non-essential’ venues are closed again what reason would there be to go out?
I do know that lots of young people discovered that visiting friends in their homes could be just as enjoyable as going to the pub and perhaps restaurants also.

Nessimmersion
4 years ago
Reply to  karenovirus

There is also the samizdat effect of people going off grid for their socialising/ entertainment.
Add up:
Increase in sales of garden offices / rooms.
Increase in garage conversions to home pubs.
Increase in sales of home brew wine beer etc, ( many of the online sellers are out o stock for half their lines)
Marquee sales or hires.🤔🤔🤔🤔
The tendency for those who came from or their parents came from east of the Iron curtain to distrust anything a govt tells them and do lots of activities without official stamps.

We are replicating many of the conditions which gave the mafia their big boost in prohibition, the only countervailing tendancy is people keeping it small / local to ward off the snitching Karens.

DrAnnoyed
DrAnnoyed
4 years ago
Major Panic in the jabby jabbys

Black Rock and Vanguard own the highly profitable pharmaceutical industry and all the main media (and possibly many scientists and politicians) – own the media own the narrative own the ‘truth’ – They use their media to promote their pharmaceutical product. These are very powerful dangerous organisations – a true cancer in the population. You didn’t lose the argument, your argument had the living shit kicked out of it by bullies with an evil agenda

sevart
sevart
4 years ago

The whole “cock-up” stance that some people hold so dearly gives those responsible (that we know of publicly) a way out when it comes time for crimes against humanity charges and other necessary actions,in my opinion.

BJs Brain is Missing
4 years ago

This war isn’t lost, lockdown sceptics never lost the argument. They were not even allowed to engage in the conversation. And when they do have a say it is like talking to a roast turnip with most people. The Globalists are terrified of genuine debate and honesty, hence the ceaseless propaganda. However this has only just begun. Humanity will prevail.

And isn’t it funny how the Crypto Globalists (Communists, Fascists, Eugenicists, Green Tyrants) have come to the fore in the past 2 years and they are quite brazen about their intentions now e.g. Joanna Lamond Lumley. But at least they have exposed themselves…

dboss
dboss
4 years ago

Instead of arguing whether lockdowns work or not the better strategy might have been to argue that even if they worked this disease didn’t justify using them any more than the Hong Kong Flu of 1968 which had a comparable death toll in the UK (80k when the UK population was much lower). However due to the increase in Snowflakery in the UK population since 1968 that argument may still not have dented support for lockdown much.

CynicalRealist
4 years ago
Reply to  dboss

Not sure that’s true as it implies that they might work and leads to discussions / arguments about the level of risk at which they are justified. Those against them are immediately on the back foot as they have already accepted something which is demonstrably false.

Julian
4 years ago
Reply to  dboss

the better strategy might have been to argue that even if they worked this disease didn’t justify using them” That was argued often. Some of us oppose lockdowns on principle under any circumstances, others would accept them if the cost/benefit analysis was favourable (bearing in mind the cost side must include a notional cost for loss of freedom). We lost because, as it turns out, the world is mainly run by Satanists and human beings are easily brainwashed. With hindsight, the surprising thing is not coronamadness, but that it has not been tried before a lot more often.

karenovirus
4 years ago
Reply to  dboss

Most people liked lockdown 1 because it was a cushy number, kids off school, parents on furlough or working from home. Government subsidising this that and everything else. Even the weather was nice first time around.
Most have forgotten what ‘civil society’ means but the government knows it cannot afford it again which is why my fags went up 10% today, bastards.

CynicalRealist
4 years ago

Common sense dictates that if you confine most people to their homes then infections will start to fall, so if we’re going to persuade people that lockdowns don’t work we need a compelling theory as to why that hypothesis is false. We never came up with one. A number of people did try to address this – the issue is basically that a large proportion of infections (and especially of those at risk of serious illness) took place in healthcare settings of one type or another – hospitals and care homes particularly, and in private homes. Lockdowns didn’t have much effect on spread in healthcare, and may actually have made it more likely in private homes as people were cooped up together more. There is no evidence that shops were in any way significant in spread (not aware of any outbreaks traced to a particular shop), so shutting them is likely to have made no difference. Likewise with many leisure venues – plus people fit enough to be using a gym or other sports venue are in many cases the type of people who would have few or no symptoms anyway. Plus of course many people still had to go… Read more »

realarthurdent
4 years ago

I’m not sure that the argument that there wouldn’t be a Wave 2 was incorrect. There was far more testing going on in the autumn and winter than in spring 2020 so of course it looked like there were lots of cases.

If you look at the excess mortality graph for the last two years (and I know it’s not a perfect dataset to use but all causes deaths are a better measurement than anything involving measuring COVID) it is clear that the rise over autumn and winter was not due to another epidemic wave – the shape of the curve is entirely different from the one last April.

And if the vaccine rollout hadn’t killed off many already frail people (and we all suspect overuse of Midazolam) and we hadn’t locked down people again there’s every reason to believe there would have been much less death recorded in the autumn, as we saw in for example Sweden.

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jsampson1945
jsampson1945
4 years ago

I have to confess that I tune out when there are long arguments based on statistics. This is a problem because statistics are necessary. But there is always the suspicion that there is some error, something omitted. If the authors have not spotted it (or are hoping the reader will not spot it) how likely is it that someone without a Ph.D. in mathematics or epidemiology will? The old adage, “Lies, d***d lies and statistics” holds. Perhaps there are writers better at explaining statistics than others. In the end it depends on whom you trust.

RickH
4 years ago
Reply to  jsampson1945

The old adage, “Lies, d***d lies and statistics” holds.”

No it doesn’t. It’s oft-quoted bollocks. The only defense you have against lies and distortion is actually proper statistical analysis. The alternative is magical thinking – i.e “In the end it depends on whom you trust.”

DrAnnoyed
DrAnnoyed
4 years ago
Reply to  jsampson1945

I have some statistical training so can follow a lot of the statistical arguments, and strongly did in spring/summer 2020, but since then we’ve seen statisticl arguments just don’t land with the lockdownists and the brainwashed. They weren’t put in those positions by reason and reason won’t get them out. Since then I’ve followed the stats less closely as I know that they aren’t changing anything.

RickH
4 years ago
Reply to  DrAnnoyed

I don’t disagree with your last sentence, as I’ve previously pointed out. But neither is anything else working.

However, that doesn’t contradict the fact that is is data and its analysis that establishes the rationalist case.

karenovirus
4 years ago
Reply to  DrAnnoyed

The only stat that interested me came from ONS, 3rd week June 2020 showing fewer people died in London that week than the five year average, that stayed constant and spread throughout the country.
As clever people here pointed out
You can’t die of Covid in March and then die again in June of the underlying condition that was going to kill you anyway.
At that point it was obvious that Covid had done its worst and it hadn’t been all that bad anyway.

Will
Will
4 years ago

It was a mistake to claim there wouldn’t be a second wave. Sunetra Gupta warned that the prolonged lockdown, in 2020, would lead to a much worse resurgence of the virus, in the winter, than would have occurred if we had opened up and allowed people to encounter the virus in the summer months. The lockdown made the situation in the winter worse. Back when he still told the truth Vallance warned of just such a scenario.

realarthurdent
4 years ago
Reply to  Will

I think the argument at the time (although possibly not very well articulated) was that if we had opened up completely last June then people would have got out and about in the summer, upped their vitamin D levels, allowed the virus to spread among the less vulnerable during the summer when the NHS is under less pressure, and make any residual “wave” in the autumn and winter smaller.

But instead the government brought out the mask mandate and increased testing to keep the fear levels up and keep the worried well inside, probably making the autumn and winter situation worse. Added to which the vaccine rollout bumped off a lot of already frail people early, and there is all the speculation about the overuse of Midazolam bumping up the January and February death numbers.

Lister of Smeg
Lister of Smeg
4 years ago

I think that the lockdown sceptics ‘lost’ the argument because:

a) the system (MSM, government, academia and the civil service) is stacked against them, either by sheer numbers or blatant censorship, and;

b) most scpetics often go by their ‘gut instinct’ based on experience, but often do not follow up that with a significant amount of thorough research to completely back up their assertions.

Bear in mind they are often going up against zealots who’s whole career is now dedicated to getting more control, censorship etc and they are willing to do anything to justify it – including lying. smearing, and using others to do their dirty work, which often ‘launders’ their own claims to make them respectable.

Most of us are too busy with real jobs/lives to spend all day doing this or don’t have loads of willing (naive) believers/minions to do the scut work on our behalf.

karenovirus
4 years ago
Reply to  Lister of Smeg

a) Farage was up against all of that yet still won.

I think it’s more to do with the incestuous way the politicians, media and academia wrap around themselves making it easy to stifle informed opposition especially as they all ultimately depend on state handouts for their ongoing careers.

All I have to offer to the debate is what I see with my own eyes and something of an understanding of history. This leads to my gut instinct that I was right to be a sceptic initially and I am still right now.

Lister of Smeg
Lister of Smeg
4 years ago
Reply to  karenovirus

Ironically, Brexit was a far easier battle to win than those we face at the moment, as: It was a binary question, not ‘shades of grey’; The degree of media and especially social media bullying and censorship was several magnitudes lower than at the moment – bear in mind that despite supposedly being polar opposites politically, practically ALL the MSM in most Western nations – even the Telegraph and Times (IMHO) support the authoritarian policies, wokeness, Build Back Better, globalism, etc; Most ‘normies’ are now scared of the reprocussions if they speak out publicly (including at work) about what they REALLY feel privtaely about such issues. They conform because it’s EASIER. Sadly, like the frog in boiling water analogy, the time that actually saying something that will make a difference is rapidly closing. Many big firms – not just the public sector (who have been emboldened by the authoritarian power grab of the pandemic) have been taken over by (hypocritical) hard Leftists or weak-minded corporatists who now push critical (race) theory and get rid of those who don’t conform. Paul Jospeh Watson’s ‘Summit News’ site chronicles this in many articles, inlcuding one today about AT&T. I would also suggest readers… Read more »

kate
kate
4 years ago

This article concedes far too many points unnecessarily. It is a waste of time arguing on the opponent’s choice of territory. Everyone now believes they are an expert in virology and all you get back are half-digested semi-medical clichés. When this subject comes up, I begin by refusing to discuss viruses, covid fears, vaccinations…instead I state clearly that I have fears for my savings (to instil a different fear into their heads.) I point out that our government are engaging in corruption and asset stripping of the country on a massive scale, remark that the banks repro rate soared in September 2019 before CV started, ask them whether I should invest in gold, given that the fiat currencies are collapsing, (say that I have friends who are already doing this) ask them what will happen when the interest rate goes up (mortgages and business loans) point out that the banks can recapitalise themselves on the bankruptcies and repossessions they will create by doing this, point out that this has been planned since 2008 as it has been inevitable since then, say that CV is just theatre, say that “it is always about money at the bottom of anything.” Give them… Read more »

karenovirus
4 years ago
Reply to  kate

My friends don’t talk about banks repro rates or buying gold but they do notice prices going up in Tesco, not being used to inflation.
One old boy is going to be very upset when he finds that Rishi has raised the price of his tobacco by 10% today.
I’ll tell him it’s to pay for the vaccines.

RW
RW
4 years ago
Reply to  kate

I should invest in gold, given that the fiat currencies are collapsing,

Gold is a fiat currency. Except insofar it’s being used because of its chemical properties in certain products, the only reason why it’s considered valuable is because people believe it to be valuable. To an ordinary person, it’s of no use whatsoever.

DrAnnoyed
DrAnnoyed
4 years ago

Be optimistic that there will be no Plan B and no lockdowns, sure. But we also need to propare to effectively resist, defy and sabotage any Plan Bs, vax passes or lockdowns which might arrive. Hope for the best, prepare to fight off the worst.

crimsonpirate
4 years ago

“if we’re going to persuade people that lockdowns don’t work we need a compelling theory as to why that hypothesis is false”

That is very easy to address. Right from the start all cause mortality was higher than previously.

karenovirus
4 years ago
Reply to  crimsonpirate

Only true until 3rd week June 2020 when it was all over and even then nothing like as bad as they thought but by then they had wrecked the economy and so could not just stop.

thinksaboutit
thinksaboutit
4 years ago

Main reason sceptics lost the argument was that they didn’t really put forward an argument that could stand any scrutiny. It was always about objecting.

karenovirus
4 years ago
Reply to  thinksaboutit

Facemasks don’t keep out Covid anymore than underwear keeps in farts. Refute that.

RickH
4 years ago
Reply to  thinksaboutit

 they didn’t really put forward an argument that could stand any scrutiny.”

Well – that’s a load of bollocks. It was the Covmaniacs who did that. But rationality made no impact.

HoMojo
4 years ago
Reply to  thinksaboutit

OMG, you probably think you take a vaccine to protect someone else. Like if the mother takes the contraceptive pill the daughter doesn’t get pregnant. That’s the sort of convoluted logic and double-speak that people now take as fact.

Julian
4 years ago
Reply to  thinksaboutit

Well, the progress we’ve made as a species has in large measure depended on rationality and science. Assertions not backed by evidence are assumed to be false until there’s some credible evidence presented that they are true. If you chuck out pandemic planning that was internationally agreed upon for decades and replace it with measures for which there was no evidence as to their efficacy, measures explicitly advised against by the WHO prior to 2020, and these measures are incredibly damaging, then the burden of proof is on you. So yes, we object to evidence-free measures that are damaging because we are not stupid.

karenovirus
4 years ago

I don’t think you did fail Toby unless you set out to change government policy as Farage did with Brexit.
Before Covid arrived but was looming abroad I was sharing doubts on a couple of small blogs with people who seemed to know what they were talking about (correctly as it happens).

Someone pointed me to Lockdownsceptics which was reassuring as I could see that a great many different people from all walks of life, political persuasions and points of view shared my doubts.
This made it all the easier to ignore, whenever possible,* the ever changing ever more crazy lockdown rules and regulations.
*obviously I couldn’t use a pub if it was closed due to lockdown.

One thing I never did get used to though was that most of the very many people I spoke to during lockdown proper were perfectly amenable to sceptic discussion, often expressing agreement then slipped on their mask and headed for the sanitiser station eager to comply.

crisisgarden
4 years ago

I agree to an extent; I think ‘we’ lost the argument because we were forced to argue on their technocratic terms. The emperor has no clothes, this is a common or garden respiratory disease that requires no societal intervention whatsoever. Let alone everyone’s lives to be ruined and the economy wrecked. As soon as we were looking at graphs and citing ‘cases’ we’d lost the argument.

RickH
4 years ago
Reply to  crisisgarden

“… this is a common or garden respiratory disease that requires no societal intervention whatsoever.”

You are contradicting yourself, since this is a technical argument, requiring evidence – unless you just assert the fact, which wouldn’t have got you anywhere, either.

The whole point is that the blanket propaganda shaped belief.

Alan P
Alan P
4 years ago

The “second wave” or Delta variant replaced flu in December 2020 on a large number of death certificates. When excess death figures for 2021 are issued (May-June 2022) the figure will be about normal for a 5 year average even if you were to factor 2020’s 71,000 out of the equation.

Let’s not concede that the second wave was a Covid extension, rather than a replacement virus.

realarthurdent
4 years ago
Reply to  Alan P

I’m not sure that the Delta variant was actually flu but it seems undeniable that it arose because the original Wuhan virus mutated to defeat the antibodies being created by the vaccination programme. All of the various variants arose in countries which were involved in the original AZ clinical trials (England, India, South Africa, Brazil). And we know now that the Delta variant in particular evades the immunity created by the vaccines almost entirely (because the antibodies created are specific to the spike protein and not to any of the other proteins in the virus).

So without the vaccination programme there is in argument that there would have been no Delta variant and therefore no “second wave” and the scientists who predicted little or no second wave would have been correct.

Julian
4 years ago

“But I go on to say that sceptics have to accept some responsibility for their failure to persuade more people that lockdowns don’t work.”

No, I accept no such responsibility. Has every argument put forward by every sceptic been perfect? No. But we lost because we were outgunned by Satanists (or loonies, take your pick) who control the world.

AN other lockdown sceptic
AN other lockdown sceptic
4 years ago

Took the dogs to the vets this am. Conversation with the vet moved to CV19 after a sadly predictably ‘request’ for me to wear a mask, which was handled rather firmly by me. Never worn one, never will.

I asked him what he thought the IFR of CV19 was. His answer was “5%”. That’s what we’re up against folks. I of course set him straight on this and other untruths referring him to scary facts plus things like Florida’s experience and the brilliant work of John Ioannidis.

In one glimmer of hope, he did say that he thought big pharma had played a role. Just maybe, I gave him a little pause for thought.

We’re at war against the truth folks and will be for a very long time. I know all on here know this. I firmly believe that over time the destruction of lockdowns etc will become a self evident truth for the majority. Its just going to take a long long time to get there. We’ve just got to keep putting our shoulders to the wheel.

Keep fighting!

realarthurdent
4 years ago

Well done. It’s good you asked the question about IFR rather than just tell him the answer. Getting people to start thinking for themselves is key to waking up the hypnotised ones.

AN other lockdown sceptic
AN other lockdown sceptic
4 years ago
Reply to  realarthurdent

Thank you. It gets better. I didn’t expect to write an update but the manager at said vets just called me to effectively tell me off for upsetting one of her staff when she asked me if I was ‘medically exempt’. Suffice to say, we’re changing vets.

I asked this person to estimate the IFR. Their response was ‘15%’!!!! They’re members of a jeffing cult that’s been propagandised into thinking that a plague is still stalking the land!

Onwards and upwards, the fight goes on.

realarthurdent
4 years ago

Businesses losing customers and being told the reason why is another way of waking people up. Anything which disrupts “normality” for them. Well done again!

Mogwai
4 years ago

Nice one and very well played! I might follow suit and start asking people that question, just as a sort of litmus test to see how clued up they are in doing their own research and not relying solely on msm, as I have a feeling the IFR doesn’t get a regular mention on the BBC. Not watched that shite in many months as the bilge churned out was nauseating. And that’s before I even mention that annoying idiot Naga Munchetty!