Mask-Wearing to Stay in Many Settings after July 19th as Businesses Set Own Rules

Boris Johnson is due to announce the end of face masks laws from July 19th later today but will continue to advise mask-wearing in crowded and enclosed spaces. Businesses will be allowed to set their own rules, and it is expected that Brits will have to carry on wearing face masks in shops, pubs, buses and trains after “Freedom Day”, according to the Telegraph.

“We will still be encouraging people that it is probably sensible to wear a mask in a busy enclosed space,” said a source. “Although it is not legally required, it doesn’t mean people should not strongly consider doing it.

“You don’t have to wear them but if shops, pubs or restaurants demand that you do, we will advise people to be mindful of that and stick to it because it is their premises.”

Hospitality chiefs said masks, table service and the rule of six would continue in some venues after July 19th, as Covid risk assessments, enforced by councils, are left to individual businesses.

Kate Nicholls, the Chief Executive of U.K. Hospitality, an industry body, said: “There’s going to be customers who are expecting everything to fall away and there’s going to be places that they won’t be able to do that.”

Millions of commuters on London’s Tube are also likely to be told they must continue wearing masks after July 19th, as well as Tube buskers, who must even wear a mask when they sing.

This is exactly what Conservative MP and Deputy Chair of the Covid Recovery Group Steve Baker warned would happen last week when he said that Sajid Javid had “worsened” the prospect of all restrictions being lifted on July 19th. “Voluntary measures will be interpreted by the Health and Safety Executive and businesses and could effectively be compulsory,” Baker said. “So until the Government stops recommending these things, too many businesses will become unviable.”

The Telegraph report is worth reading in full.

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OKUK
OKUK
4 years ago

Well that could in some circumstances make things worse. Some places could demand masks full stop, with no exemptions, on the basis of that report. So far, makes little sense!

tom171uk
4 years ago
Reply to  OKUK

And such places won’t get my custom.

Fingerache Philip
Fingerache Philip
4 years ago
Reply to  tom171uk

Hope they go out of business.

Julian
4 years ago

They won’t because most people seem happy to do the covid theatre

Cristi.Neagu
4 years ago
Reply to  tom171uk

Vote with your wallet. If a store cares more about virtue signalling than about customer satisfaction, go and find a store that actually needs the money.

chris c
chris c
4 years ago
Reply to  Cristi.Neagu

Agreed – if theye are any.

aussienomad
4 years ago
Reply to  OKUK

LS need to create a new section on their site, like they did previously for businesses that were open, but now for businesses that don’t require masks, distancing, register your details BS etc.

wendy
wendy
4 years ago
Reply to  aussienomad

Trouble might be that the local authority they are in might shut them down.

Splatt
Splatt
4 years ago
Reply to  wendy

This is true however we’ve reached a point now where if the situation NOW isnt deemed sufficient to open up, it never will be.

Only way to get a message across is to completely ignore the local authority rules and boycott any business voluntarily enforcing these.

Julian
4 years ago
Reply to  Splatt

I’m already doing that. We’re in a small minority. Anyway, boycott isn’t an option for many, and not for staff.

Jane G
Jane G
4 years ago
Reply to  Splatt

There’s a couple of local places I’ve been boycotting for a year. They won’t have noticed. They were ready enough to bark at me when my presence took them over their allotted number of bodies (this was before masks were even introduced). It’s dispiriting when the cud-chewers hook on their masks as they enter the Covid- correct emporia. There’s more of them than me.

LMS2
4 years ago
Reply to  wendy

It’s going to take legal challenges to overturn this, and to challenge council Nazi enforcers.

HelenaHancart
HelenaHancart
4 years ago
Reply to  wendy

But if it’s not law anymore what business is it of local authority? There’s never been mask mandates before in shops! This is going to turn into a legal hotbed. Good.

Julian
4 years ago
Reply to  HelenaHancart

Public health, safety of business premises

Sausalito
Sausalito
4 years ago
Reply to  wendy

If it´s not a legal requirement I can´t see businesses being closed down by local authorities.

Peter W
Peter W
4 years ago
Reply to  Sausalito

Oh, you’d be surprised what the Jobsworths will do to maintain their sense of self importance …and their surplus jobs.
They will base it on Risk Assessment – their idea of Risk Assessment – in the reverse manner of last year when they overrode reasonable RA’s that didn’t identify so-called risks.

Julian
4 years ago
Reply to  OKUK

It makes perfect sense if you are the govt and want to appear like you are letting people manage their own risk but you want the idea that there is a pandemic to continue
It’s a fiendishly clever way of establishing the new normal – mandates to get everyone in the habit and guidance to keep it going

annicx
4 years ago
Reply to  Julian

I love the bit from Johnson about ‘their premises’- it hasn’t made a jot of difference up to now, and even before Covid with things such as the smoking ban, but all of a sudden we have to respect their right to set rules on their premises…so long as they’re the ‘correct’ rules of course.

Glynthepin
Glynthepin
4 years ago
Reply to  annicx

Exactly….discrimination is ok so long as it is discrimination against the right kind.

HelenaHancart
HelenaHancart
4 years ago
Reply to  OKUK

If they insist on bloody masks without exemptions then they can be done for discrimination. If they insist on mask wearing they need to PROVE that forcing me to wear a mask will do me NO HARM, other wise they can be sued. Mind you it’s moot point because I shall continue to NOT support these types of business anyway.

Julian
4 years ago
Reply to  HelenaHancart

Sued on what basis? How can they be done for discrimination? Sceptics are not a protected minority (in fact quite the opposite).

HelenaHancart
HelenaHancart
4 years ago
Reply to  Julian

Actually, I do have a disability, as defined under the current government rules, and I cannot wear a face mask for that reason! I WILL continue to challenge any business that refuses me entry when I say I have an exemption. But as I said, they’ll be the losers eventually.

Julian
4 years ago
Reply to  HelenaHancart

Well, indeed if you have a disability then you will probably continue to be exempt. I have no disability, so I won’t be.

Sausalito
Sausalito
4 years ago
Reply to  Julian

Exemption isn´t limited to having a disability.

Julian
4 years ago
Reply to  Sausalito

At the moment, no. If the law, with its vague and generous list of exemptions, is replaced by shops imposing their own restrictions, that changes.

Sausalito
Sausalito
4 years ago
Reply to  Julian

but shops will be in breach of equality/disability laws if they discriminate.

Lockdown_Lunacy
4 years ago
Reply to  Julian

Just walk into the shop and buy what you want to buy with confidence. In this case, nothing changes for you unless you allow it to. Nobody ever challenges me or my wife anywhere, even at the airport, one of the most controlled environments in the country.

I am not concerned and I see no reason to be.

Susan
4 years ago
Reply to  Sausalito

Using the brain you have should exempt you.

Lew
Lew
4 years ago
Reply to  OKUK

Boycott all places that do.

Milo
Milo
4 years ago
Reply to  OKUK

government is passing the buck – PM will be able to say “I made you all free” (it is just that these pesky covid zealot businesses want to take your freedoms away and we can’t stop them)

Noumenon
4 years ago

It might be a bad situation but it gives some ground for pushing the limits and trying to convince people of the sinister nature of it. It brings the battle to the local level.

Noumenon
4 years ago
Reply to  Noumenon

Natural selection will also play a part with people “selecting” their favourite locales. Expect places that get away with lax rules being very popular. The problem is it could vary geographically.

BJs Brain is Missing
4 years ago

My simple rule is: any place that does not enforce mask wearing will get my custom.

Brett_McS
4 years ago

Or refuse to wear it and see how much they really don’t want the sale.

A Y M
4 years ago
Reply to  Brett_McS

Yes it is useful to go to these places and make them tell you they require masks, then leave (politely).
They need to know they are losing customers.

Brett_McS
4 years ago
Reply to  A Y M

Better yet, demand to speak to the owner or manager, to make sure the message is getting to the right person.

NeilofWatford
4 years ago
Reply to  Brett_McS

Let’s go further and publicise their names on these pages.
#DirectDemocracy

TreeHugger
4 years ago

Thankfully my local pub has already all but ditched the mask requirements. Staff were wearing them until recently but now most have sunflower lanyards, and leave customers to chose how they behave regards to wearing them. Still alot of customers complying to varying degrees, sadly. QR code is on each table but no enforcement going on. Jonathan Neame (Shepherd Neame brewery) is a sceptic from what I can gather, so as it’s one of his pubs maybe that helps.

Brett_McS
4 years ago

Banks will now *demand* that customers wear a mask, is that right?

Smelly Melly
4 years ago
Reply to  Brett_McS

And bank robbers will be arrested if they don’t wear a mask.

Marmalade
4 years ago
Reply to  Brett_McS

How are they going to enforce it if its not a legal requirement and the customer claims exemption?

Marcus Aurelius knew
4 years ago
Reply to  Marmalade

They aren’t going to enforce it. This “change” represents no change at all.

Marmalade
4 years ago

Yep, which is what I thought!

Although in practice it will mean more people not wearing masks. Maybe this will create momentum in the right direction.

Marcus Aurelius knew
4 years ago
Reply to  Marmalade

Maybe.

HelenaHancart
HelenaHancart
4 years ago
Reply to  Marmalade

Yep, there’s going to be many that will just ditch the nap, and go “yippee” without looking at the actual implications. If they are challenged as they go free-faced into a pub or whatever, this is hopefully going to anger and wake more up to the dirty little tricks that are being pulled on us all, amongst the mega corrupt ones.

steve_w
4 years ago

who knows what will happen. I don’t

the government is waiting for July 19th. why? ‘cases’ will probably be higher then. but if you go on hospitalisations and deaths why not open now? none of it makes sense because its not logic driven

Marcus Aurelius knew
4 years ago
Reply to  steve_w

Exactly. The premise of the whole thing was false, so literally everything which follows is absurd.

If what I MUST do to stay alive (i.e. breathe) is so dangerous to others, I must stop breathing immediately – ergo, nonsense.

reductio ad absurdum

Susan
4 years ago

Attack logic and truth. Destroy reason. Bingo!

Peter W
Peter W
4 years ago
Reply to  steve_w

Be led by The Science(tm). Ferguson’s tea leaves never lie to him. I assume that’s where he gets his “data” from for his toy models.

Marmalade
4 years ago

Those businesses that will require masks deserve to go under.

Marcus Aurelius knew
4 years ago
Reply to  Marmalade

Precisely. My locals have not enforced the mask since they reopened. Mind you, I live in a “deprived” part of my city, which is populated by people who have always been “left behind” (betrayed) by the system – so they are practiced at thinking for themselves and seeing authority for exactly what it is – a CON.

wendy
wendy
4 years ago
Reply to  Marmalade

Looks like some places will cater to the covidians and others to the sceptics. It all feels a mess.

Brett_McS
4 years ago
Reply to  wendy

A more fundamental divide than left and right, I suggest.

crisisgarden
4 years ago
Reply to  Brett_McS

Certainly. Things are becoming quite tribal.

LMS2
4 years ago
Reply to  crisisgarden

It’s called divide and rule, or how governments have been getting away with authoritarian rule for years.

HelenaHancart
HelenaHancart
4 years ago
Reply to  crisisgarden

This is exactly what they’re hoping for, the evil scum-suckers.

Julian
4 years ago
Reply to  wendy

Shame that sceptics represent a tiny percentage of the population. A few cafes, pubs, restaurants, small shops might emerge, perhaps quite a few in inner city areas, but I doubt there will be any/many in my county town and few if any among the national chains that make up a huge proportion of retail and leisure in this country

Milo
Milo
4 years ago
Reply to  wendy

unfortunately covidians seem to be in majority. I am the only sceptic I know

X - In Search of Space
X - In Search of Space
4 years ago

Nooooooooooo!

Utter, contemptible bastards!

“We will still be encouraging people that it is probably sensible to wear a mask in a busy enclosed space,”

What?!?! ‘probably’ PROBABLY? You what?

They either are, or are not, necessary.

Argggggghhhhh!

Brett_McS
4 years ago

“Probably sensible” doesn’t mean anything, nor does even “Definitely sensible”.

Brett_McS
4 years ago

How does a business demand that I wear an item of clothing that is not legally mandated? Are they going to employ bouncers at the door? And what would be the legal situation of being assaulted by one of them? I don’t think they would have a leg to stand on, but I’m no legal eagle. It could be just a big bluff.

Marmalade
4 years ago
Reply to  Brett_McS

In the winter, my local Tesco hired a security man to stand at the entrance to ‘enforce’ the mask law/mandate/whatever. I would just tell him I was exempt and he would let me in, no issues each and every time.

They got rid of him at the end of March and didn’t replace him.

I think most businesses will keep the signs that say ‘wear a mask’ and that’s it. More and more people will ignore it.

Marcus Aurelius knew
4 years ago
Reply to  Marmalade

My LIDL had a good 15-20% of sane people yesterday afternoon. Lovely to see. Had lots of lovely chats with people I’d met for the first time. At one point, five of us were chatting and laughing right in the middle of the store.

SJR
SJR
4 years ago

I’ve just started going into shops again – maskless- as I’ve been avoiding them ever since the mask rules came in. (I’ve never worn a mask during this whole fiasco), but the postponement of lifting lockdown last month stiffened my resolve to just live my life and ignore the stupid rules. Not had any issues so far. However I was disappointed when visiting a local Tesco that nearly everyone was masked up.
I can’t wait for the mask and social distancing rules to go. I just hope the public votes with their feet and avoids places that require masks and social distancing. They’ll soon abandon those measures when more sensible establishments start taking their business.

Julian
4 years ago
Reply to  SJR

They’ll soon abandon those measures when more sensible establishments start taking their business.” High cost of entry for “sensible establishments”. Try finding someone who wants to open a swimming pool for sceptics…

Marcus Aurelius knew
4 years ago
Reply to  Julian

That’s why we go wild swimming. Rivers are SOOOO much nicer than council-run infestation puddles.

Fingerache Philip
Fingerache Philip
4 years ago

Good to hear.

Brett_McS
4 years ago
Reply to  Marmalade

In some jurisdictions, signs such as “No Mask No Entry” are illegal.

Marcus Aurelius knew
4 years ago
Reply to  Brett_McS

They are already illegal in the UK. I remind shops which show it – every time I see them.

I also tell them about “No Blacks No Irish No Dogs” and the Nuremberg Code and that “just following orders” will not protect them.

Julian
4 years ago

What makes them illegal in the UK?

The SI for face coverings lists exemptions, but shops are free to make their own rules.

Julian
4 years ago
Reply to  Julian

Instead of downvoting me, why not answer my question?

John
4 years ago
Reply to  Julian

If someone states they are exempt then they are exempt, which could be for physical or mental reasons but doesn’t have to be declared due to confidentiality, to refuse a service on these grounds could be illegal under the 2010 equality legislation. Any long term condition comes under the legislation.

Julian
4 years ago
Reply to  John

You’re talking about the existing mask mandate – some SI attached to the Public Health Act 1984, which has non-exhaustive list of fairly vague reasons why you might be exempt. I’ve no idea whether these are connected in any way to 2010 equality legislation, and I am quite sure that no court would interpret my defence – wearing a face covering causes me severe distress because it’s nonsense, based on a life – as having anything to do with equality. The same would apply if I refused to wear a mask in a shop and the shop tried to exclude me, if they had a “no mask, no service” policy, which would most likely be perfectly legal, based on a risk assessment, which would of course be nonsense but no court would throw out a covid-safe risk assessment that was in line with govt guidelines. And shops are free to draft their own wording for exempting people, which would probably cover the equality angle but would not apply to people like me who won’t wear a mask in principle. I would not be optimistic about winning any such legal case. Doubtless it probably won’t come to that, they will, as… Read more »

Mr Taxpayer
Mr Taxpayer
4 years ago
Reply to  Julian

The assorted face coverings SI mandate the wearing of the face covering. The signs outside stores are the area of discrimination. There ‘s nothing in the SI that permits or mandates the displaying of a sign. Also, the word MASK goes beyond what is required by the SI. Since there are numerous reasons under Regulation 4 of the SI why a person does not have to wear a face covering, most signs saying ‘no mask no entry’ are discriminatory. One business has already been successfully sued by a disability rights group.

Julian
4 years ago
Reply to  Mr Taxpayer

I am not talking about the current SIs. I am talking about shops imposing their own restrictions on health and safety grounds. They will most likely recognise “medical” exemptions but are unlikely to have much truck with someone like me who objects to masks on principle.

John
4 years ago
Reply to  Julian

The whole point of the changes announced today would be that you’ve made your own risk assessment.

Alex B
4 years ago
Reply to  Julian

I’ve no idea whether these are connected in any way to 2010 equality legislation, and I am quite sure that no court would interpret my defence
So, regarding things like face masks, The Equality Act 2010 has precedence in law over any Statutory Instrument attached to the Public Health Act in this respect. This is exactly why there are exemptions in the first place covering physical and mental disabilities and the wearing of masks.
A business which refused access to someone with a disability, physical or mental, which prevented them from wearing a mask would be in breach of the Equality Act, just as they are not free to say: no blacks; no blind people etc.

LMS2
4 years ago
Reply to  Julian

They can and have been taken to court, I believe, and fined for discriminating against people who can’t wear face masks.

Julian
4 years ago
Reply to  LMS2

I was not aware of that. Some sceptics doubtless fall into the category of “can’t” but most are “won’t”.

John001
John001
4 years ago
Reply to  LMS2

From what you say some people must have successfully claimed damages (= compensation) in a county court small claim. Do you know who paid up? Useful precedent.

Normally, potential cases are settled out of court (with a NDA) to avoid it getting into the papers and causing the business reputational damage. That sets no kind of precedent for anyone who comes later; they have to start from square one.

JohnK
4 years ago
Reply to  LMS2

Yes. All concerned should note that there have indeed been cases (real ones) that resulted in legal action against the culprits. Not advertising this particular firm: https://disabilityrights.org.uk/first-face-mask-discrimination-case-nets-7-000 but it shows what has happened. Many would prefer to settle up outside court to avoid the expenses of being sued in the County Court etc. No surprise that there is not much publicity. You can make your own mind up as to why that is!

Sausalito
Sausalito
4 years ago
Reply to  Julian

goes against anti discrimination laws, that´s why

Marcus Aurelius knew
4 years ago
Reply to  Julian

Hi Julian, I haven’t downvoted you, I like your comments, you always hit the nail on the head in my experience.

Yes, a shop owner is free to make his/her own decisions, but the displaying of signs which show they will refuse business on the basis of a person’s beliefs, clothing, medical status etc is illegal.

Fingerache Philip
Fingerache Philip
4 years ago
Reply to  Marmalade

The “Please shop alone” piffle seems to have “fallen by the wayside”

LMS2
4 years ago

It fell by the wayside as soon as it was introduced.
MOH and i would just go in separately, with a trolley each when necessary, then we’d abandon one in the store somewhere and carry on shopping as normal.

Fingerache Philip
Fingerache Philip
4 years ago
Reply to  LMS2

Funny you should say that!

wendy
wendy
4 years ago
Reply to  Marmalade

Yes it is what I notice at my small local coop, the only place I go. It’s an inner city shop so many customers defy it and now the doorman has gone, the assistants wear their masks under their chins. Perhaps there will be a waning away of masking or there may be different places catering to the different customers?

Julian
4 years ago
Reply to  Marmalade

Why would people ignore it? If the basis on which they are asking you to wear a mask shifts from simply the relevant law to a condition of entry imposed by private businesses, or by public bodies, why would they recognise exemptions?

SweetBabyCheeses
4 years ago
Reply to  Julian

Because I usually see members of staff who are also exempt?

Julian
4 years ago

Under the current laws. If the current laws go, which they possibly will, shops are free to replace them with whatever rules they feel like, and any exemptions will most likely people with specific difficulties with masks e.g. breathing, not people who object to masks on principle.

Sausalito
Sausalito
4 years ago
Reply to  Julian

shops are not allowed to discriminate

SweetBabyCheeses
4 years ago
Reply to  Julian

It’s not true that the Equality Act only applies in public places and not in private ones – it applies to places that public would have access to (whether you pay or not) e.g a member of the public can just walk into a shop/cinema/bar etc. Staff cannot refuse you service on the basis of a protected characteristic, if that causes you a detriment. Eg cannot refuse to serve a disabled* person who is unable to wear a mask as this would be humiliating.
It may not apply in places such as a private members club, which is why some only have men still for instance.
* I note you say that you do not have a disability but a condition such as anxiety that lasts for 12 months or longer does become classed as a disability and if the idea of covering your face has made you feel like that then it’s been going on for almost a year now…

Mr Taxpayer
Mr Taxpayer
4 years ago

I like the having a condition for 12 months or more being classified as a disability. The face coverings in public places came in on 24 Jul 2020, so I’m only 3 weeks away form being disabled….

Mezzo18
Mezzo18
4 years ago
Reply to  Mr Taxpayer

That is the wording of the Act. Under the ‘social model’ of disability adopted by the Labour government, there has never been any requirement for people to ‘prove’ their disability with evidence, such as a doctor’s letter; they just have to declare it. Blindness is the only ‘registered’ disability now.
In normal circumstances we may see that as a skivers’ charter, but it’s to our benefit here.

steve_w
4 years ago

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-57712737

Covid: Scotland tops Europe hotspot chart

Is that because i) they’ve been listening to Devi Sridhar or ii) they haven’t been listening to Devi Sridhar?

JayBee
4 years ago
Reply to  steve_w

They should have gone for Minus Covid instead of for Zero Covid.

B.F.Finlayson
4 years ago

Businesses will be allowed to set their own rules,

Sorry, this should not be possible. Civil law is applicable to all people, as it has been willed by the electorate via the legislature. No-one is above the law, and the same UK laws apply to all.
This is the same step that (for example) could set a precedent for Sharia Law being able to override UK law or common law – by placing the detailed application and ad hoc variation of the law into the hands of non-accountable private individuals or corporate/religious bodies.
Brains have clearly been switched off within the government of fools.

Brett_McS
4 years ago
Reply to  B.F.Finlayson

I thought for a minute “but Gentlemen’s Clubs require a certain dress standard, tie etc”, but then that’s a contractual requirement of membership of the club. Not a public business.

That’s probably why De Santis made requiring masks explicitly illegal in Florida – to clear up any confusion.

B.F.Finlayson
4 years ago
Reply to  Brett_McS

Absolutely. The potential for this precedent to spread and develop (virus like) within our complex society (with its interlocking networks of public space, private space, public realm, private ownership, state ownership etc) is very concerning. Even now so many people do not realise that many spaces they believe are ‘public’ are not, and simply exist as public easements and so subject to corporate law and private security firms.
This new provision, however, takes things a step further again.

Julian
4 years ago
Reply to  B.F.Finlayson

It has already spread and developed, virus like. That’s what the mandates were for, to make sure the public got into the right habits and that businesses developed the infrastructure. Now the govt can sit back and let the private sector do the work, and appear as if they are giving people freedom of choice.

B.F.Finlayson
4 years ago
Reply to  Julian

It has already spread and developed, virus like.

The appallingly drafted policies of this government, in particular the loose statutory instruments (ministerial decrees etc), have barely left the jab site yet – to continue using this inexact metaphor.
As it stands, however, apart from some quickly assimilated social norms we are today in much the same position legally as we were prior to Covid19; and those changes there have been remain quickly reversible, if the electorate shows no appetite for them.
Unfortunately, as you suggest, if these small but fundamental changes toward private/corporate formulation, application and policing of civil law start to become more and more commonplace then it will be increasingly difficult to oppose them. At that point we will be screwed, but we are nowhere near that point yet, and understanding this is fundamental to being able to effectively oppose this worrying trend rather than knee-jerk.

Julian
4 years ago
Reply to  B.F.Finlayson

Covid safety is baked into everything now
Hard to oppose
All we can do is chip away

JayBee
4 years ago
Reply to  B.F.Finlayson

Correct, it’s the same with regard to no jab, no job.
See my comment above and in TU.
Sadly, only DeSantis gets it.
The rest have succumbed to building a fascist oligarchy anyway.

JayBee
4 years ago

This is even more wrong than before.
It remains to be seen whether the exemptions must still be recognized by those businesses, so that they don’t run foul of anti-discrimination laws.
And even if they clearly do, the courts might still be siding with them for political reasons- the precedent set in Germany for example does not look promising in that regard.
I have posted an excerpt from today’s America Abides aticle at UNZ under Today’s Update, which explains why this is wrong and what Johnson&co simply don’t get here, in contrast to DeSantis.
But then, we are living in a fascist world again, so only those large corporations are calling the political shots.
https://unherd.com/2021/07/how-the-democrats-fell-for-mussolini/

Marcus Aurelius knew
4 years ago

So, no change then. I am soooo surprised.

Splatt
Splatt
4 years ago

Whats needed is a central database of businesses that despite the law changing still demand masks.
Then people can see them, boycott them and spread the news.

That and 1* reviews on all relevant sites explaining exactly why.

Once the legal part is withdrawn mass rebellion and boycott seems the only way forward and has no downsides any more (no fines).

Brett_McS
4 years ago
Reply to  Splatt

Name and Shame. I like it!

SJR
SJR
4 years ago
Reply to  Brett_McS

Support “Mask Free” businesses!

Noumenon
4 years ago

Cue the Committee of Public Safety locking down again in winter and blaming the 60-odd-percent of rule breakers (that’s an intuitive guess) and “anti-vaxers”.

KidFury
KidFury
4 years ago

Time to open a mask-free pub? A Speakeasy!

Brett_McS
4 years ago
Reply to  KidFury

Nice!

helenf
4 years ago
Reply to  KidFury

Please make it a cross uk chain so we can all enjoy it 😊

wendy
wendy
4 years ago

Just been trying to see where things are up to with Sweden. Looks like even their mild recommendation to wear masks on public transport during morning and evening rush hour is being stepped down. How can their population survive but ours can’t without being masked up?

LMS2
4 years ago
Reply to  wendy

How can Floridians survive without masks, and we can’t?

Garfy1967
Garfy1967
4 years ago

I’ll go out on a limb here and predict that very few, if any businesses are going to insist on masks. It simply won’t happen…they’re not daft.

tom171uk
4 years ago
Reply to  Garfy1967

But their insurers might insist.

skybluesam
skybluesam
4 years ago
Reply to  tom171uk

Why? There’s zero prospect of anybody being sued over catching Covid

Mezzo18
Mezzo18
4 years ago
Reply to  tom171uk

Then they will stick up silly signs to appease them and everyone will ignore them. That is already happening, particularly in pubs.

LMS2
4 years ago
Reply to  Garfy1967

Don’t bet on it.

Sausalito
Sausalito
4 years ago
Reply to  LMS2

How on earth will someone be able to prove that they acquired Covid from a person or venue?
For insurers to make it a requirement then there would need to be strong evidence that masks actually prevent transmission. And then there are the harms from mask wearing.

Julian
4 years ago

So the question for Toby Young and the LS editorial team is what happened to their libertarian champion Boris and his sensible, pragmatic new Health secretary?

LMS2
4 years ago
Reply to  Julian

Meet the new Health Secretary. Same as the old Health Secretary.

Moist Von Lipwig
4 years ago

Watch businesses go out of business….

Julian
4 years ago

The trouble with saying places insisting on masks not getting your business is that it assumes that there will be a choice in a given sector e.g. a pub. While this may be true for things like pubs and shops, especially smaller ones, that are fairly numerous, but I doubt it will be true for big chains, sports and leisure centres, public transport. Thinking about all the things I used to do but don’t any more, I doubt anything will change for me after 19th July
In practice we will have little choice – comply, avoid, or fight a constant battle with staff and customers wherever you go, removing all pleasure

Brett_McS
4 years ago
Reply to  Julian

Agreed. Better to walk in without a mask, and put the ball in their court. I think they’ll get the message pretty quickly.

Julian
4 years ago
Reply to  Brett_McS

And their private security guards will ask you to leave. No thanks. I will carry on as I am. Walking, driving, other outdoor activities, see the very few friends I have left in private.

Garfy1967
Garfy1967
4 years ago
Reply to  Julian

They WON’T ask you to leave. Trust me on this. It simply doesn’t happen. Stop believing the threats.

Lockdown_Lunacy
4 years ago
Reply to  Garfy1967

Correct.

debra
4 years ago
Reply to  Julian

I haven’t worn a mask since early 2020 and I have never been asked to leave anywhere. I state “I don’t wear one” with a smile, then “Yes” to any follow up Q about medical exemption and walk on – not engaging in conversation.

court
4 years ago
Reply to  Brett_McS

I love to wind up jobsworth fake authority figures like supermarket security guards, marshalls etc. This will be fun….

Julian
4 years ago
Reply to  court

I think the fun might wear off after a few years.

zners
zners
4 years ago
Reply to  Julian

well I think these conditions will probably last until September. I really have a bad feeling something else is coming. I see the latest relief of restrictions simply a washing of government hands while they all go off on holiday.
What I cannot figure out yet is how they will tighten restrictions again. I get the feeling they are trying to create a separation between the virus and lockdowns.

Beowa
4 years ago

And that will open a whole new can of worms regarding discrimination

helenf
4 years ago
Reply to  Beowa

Yep, they can enforce their own rules, but that doesn’t make them exempt from prosecution for discrimination or harm caused by their rules.

Julian
4 years ago
Reply to  helenf

How is it discrimination if they say I have to wear a mask. There’s no medical reason for me not to, other than the medical reasons we know about (they are useless and cause harm) – but no court will find those reasons convincing – how could they if it is govt guidance and universally adopted all over the world, advocated by the WHO?

Sausalito
Sausalito
4 years ago
Reply to  Julian

You may not need a medical reason to be exempt.

helenf
4 years ago
Reply to  Julian

If wearing a mask causes you undue anxiety, and you are not allowed in a premises because you won’t wear a mask despite saying you can’t wear one safely, then they are discriminating against you on the basis of your mental health. You don’t need a medical reason. You don’t need to prove your fitness to wear a mask.

Fingerache Philip
Fingerache Philip
4 years ago

Ryanair have always been known as treating their customers like cattle, now it seems that they intend to treat them like criminals.

Julian
4 years ago

Thinking any airlines will be letting people wholesale fly maskless seems fanciful to me

I am Spartacas
4 years ago

Will they be requiring hard hats too?

Because the chances of something falling on your head whilst shopping and killing you are much higher than you catching covid from an asymptomatic person and dying from it.

tom171uk
4 years ago
Reply to  I am Spartacas

Ssssshhhhh…… Don’t give the bastards any ideas or it will be the new normal.

annicx
4 years ago
Reply to  tom171uk

It is a good point though- so many things are more dangerous and likely, but try getting the point across. Last year we had to mask up for a speed boat ride in the North Sea- utter madness and I pointed out that I had more chance of falling overboard and drowning than catching death from a fellow passenger out at sea- but it seemed I was the only person that even gave the matter any thought. Whatever happened to the idea that persons entering premises did so at their own risk?

Dave Angel Eco Warrier
Dave Angel Eco Warrier
4 years ago

It’ll be interesting. One pub in my area is very hot on the rules but because of that it is always empty. The pubs doing well are those that are paying lip service to the rules with several not even bothering to display the QR codes. They are by no means perfect or normal (yet) but at least they know where their bread is buttered.

zners
zners
4 years ago

so hold on, it is not a legal requirement to wear a mask on the tube and buses right? Confusing… Ignoring what they tell you to for a moment.

Dave Angel Eco Warrier
Dave Angel Eco Warrier
4 years ago
Reply to  zners

Not really as they are not public places. They (like shops) can have their own ‘rules’ but how far they enforce them (and how) is another matter. It is worth pointing out that it is not illegal to go maskless now.

zners
zners
4 years ago

ok cool thanks for clarifying. I will certainly attempt going in with no masks. As a paying customer of extortionate ticket prices and also having to endure horrendously hot environment in the underground I will not make my journey even more uncomfortable than it needs to be.
I expect non-conformity from both the virus sceptic camp as well as the double jabbed camp on wearing them.

LMS2
4 years ago

Then how exactly is this any different from now? How is this lifting of restrictions?
This is continuation of fear mongering, presumably until the autumn….

tom171uk
4 years ago

Is there nobody in parliament who will actually challenge the government to demonstrate that the wearing of face coverings has had any benefit?

Certainly not the so called opposition.

HeresJohnny
HeresJohnny
4 years ago

The special psy-ops gestapo team were very hard at work to cook that one up.
And yet we are not suprised, are we?

NonCompliant
4 years ago

Spineless manouver by the Govt. I doubt there’ll be many, if any restaurants or bars who will admit entrance to humans from 19th July sadly. I may ring up a few bars and restaurants in advance stating my position so they at least know they are losing trade because of it.

cinnamonpress
cinnamonpress
4 years ago
Reply to  NonCompliant

We will need a register of businesses who are libertarian. We just have to hope they won’t be targeted by people with bad intent.

Steve-Devon
4 years ago

The way this Guidelines thing pans out will depend on public reaction, and the extent to which businesses are prepared to enforce their rules with their own security. If enough people get on a bus or walk into Tesco’s not wearing masks it will be hard for their own security to take any action. There again what action can they take? they can ask you to leave but can they physically throw you out?
At present we have a Government exemption procedure which is grudgingly accepted, will each business, Tesco’s GWR etc. each have to publish their own exemptions policy?

Messy times ahead.

Garfy1967
Garfy1967
4 years ago
Reply to  Steve-Devon

I’ve never worn a mask and used Tesco several times a week, every week during that time. I have only been asked once by a security guard where my mask was and I simply said I was exempt and he waved me through. Where people have got the idea from that shops will refuse you entry or ask you to leave is beyond me and part of the problem where people readily complied I suspect. I’ve never had a problem getting served anywhere. Ditch the f*cking mask now.

Lockdown_Lunacy
4 years ago
Reply to  Garfy1967

That’s right. It isn’t ‘grudgingly accepted’. It’s just accepted.

Nobody ever says anything to me. In shops, in train stations etc. It is very easy to do everything without a mask. I just go about my business and nobody bothers me. My wife does the same. I don’t understand the anxiety about going unmasked this far down the line.