Stop Worrying About Fat Shaming. We Need to Talk About Obesity
A GP has emailed Lockdown Sceptics with a short piece about obesity, which she calls the elephant in the room. Given its links to susceptibility to COVID-19, we have to start talking about it.
Forgive me if this offends you. For the past 16 months we have an elephant in the (COVID-19) room that we seem to refuse to talk about. As a clinician working in a very large London GP practice, I’ve been wondering if and when patients might spot the elephant and take some action. It hasn’t happened yet.
So what is the elephant you ask? It’s the undeniable fact that a healthy weight and lifestyle which includes regular exercise will (almost definitely) reduce your risk of dying with an infection such as Covid by an enormous amount. To name it and shame it, the elephant’s name is specifically obesity. Yes there are genetics, yes there is age, yes there are the random unlucky ones. But for the vast majority who become seriously ill with COVID-19, obesity is a significant contributory factor. The vast majority of patients who end up in ITU with Covid have a BMI of >25 and it often does’t end well for them.
Now you might think that’s not relevant to you as you have checked out the infection fatality risk in your age group (and hopefully the Covid ship has sailed anyway…) and you know it’s ridiculously low. However, is that really a good excuse? So you might get Covid and not die (I certainly hope you don’t), but what about the increased risks of developing diabetes, cancer, heart disease, strokes, infertility, difficult labours, long Covid (the list goes on and on)?
So, I’ve spent 16 months talking to my patients about this. (Contrary to public perception we have been doing something!) Have they listened? Well, yes, I would say most of them hear me out. However, what has struck me is that a few of them (a generally well educated, affluent bunch) were genuinely surprised by what they heard. They had no idea there was such a strong correlation between obesity and increased risk of dying or being very unwell with Covid. But sadly in the majority of cases I fear I’ve wasted my breath.
So, who’s to blame? SAGE wouldn’t deny it, Boris has mentioned it, the BBC have whispered about it… But the mystery remains as to WHY WE AREN’T SHOUTING ABOUT THIS FROM THE ROOFTOPS?!? Is it because the media and the rest of the band wagon are afraid of fat shaming? Or would a massive increase in health promotion distract from all the fear mongering and vaccine obsession? Boris has the perfect platform to mention this every time he does one of his irritating lectures to the nation.
I’m not writing this piece to rant. I’m writing it because maybe this is the forum to speak out and start to create a change that will not only reduce people’s risk of dying from diseases like Covid, but, more importantly, will reduce the risk of them getting innumerable diseases. Maybe what is needed is to separate statement of fact (obesity carries significant health risk) from subjective judgement (it’s your fault you’re obese). If we remove the subjective element, then perhaps we’d be able to talk about it in a more objective and calm way? It would allow us to state plainly the health risks, and (more importantly) facilitate weight loss for those who want to attempt it. It is very sensitive subject and until we stop worrying about causing offence we won’t be able to have a proper grown up discussion.
Update: Gary Johnson, the Managing Director of Inpharmation, has emailed us to correct the impression, given by the author of this piece, that obesity is a more important risk factor than age when it comes to susceptibility to COVID-19.
I know from reading your site regularly that you will be well aware that the risk of increasing age spans several order of magnitude. Whereas the risks from obesity are a fraction of an order of magnitude.
The best data I know of for the demographics and outcomes for patients on critical care is the INARC report on COVID-19 in critical care.
While it is true that around four fifths of the COVID critical care population have a BMI of over 25, this misleads. Firstly, the cut off for obesity is 30 and not 25. Secondly, as we age, we put on weight and the average age for critical care COVID patients is around 60. So we need to compare the critical care COVID population with the sex and age matched general population. You can see this on page 65 of the INARC report. The COVID critical care population is a just a little more overweight/obese than the general population. In earlier INARC reports, the proportions have actually been quite similar.
And, while it is true that it often does not end well for overweight COVID patients on ITU, it is no more true for them than for other COVID patients who end up on ITU. On page 65 of the report you will see that, surprisingly, a lower percentage of obese patients in critical care die (34.6%) than of non-obese patients. The worst outcome is for those patients with a BMI of <25, with 42.2% of those in critical care dying.
Please don’t get me wrong, I am not advocating obesity – just fact checking.
Keep up the great work.
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You think that people don’t know that being fat is unhealthy? It amazes me that someone can be in a profession that advises fat people all day and has an understanding of Western nutrition and just thinks that “SHOUTING ABOUT THIS FROM THE ROOFTOPS?!?” is the correct way to go about it.
If done regularly in a way that makes it as unacceptable as drink-driving, then, yes, I believe a change could be effected. Admittedly most people know, theoretically, that it is very unhealthy, but they need to be made to feel it viscerally!
“as unacceptable as drink-driving”
Because every day really fat people topple over and crush toddlers to death.
Obesity is selfishness personified. It costs the NHS billions which could much be better spent. As an ex nurse I can also tell you that many back injuries to staff are caused by lifting obese people. Try moving someone who is so fat that it takes two people to lift a leg.
What rubbish! Patients are not ‘lifted’ by nurses any longer and haven’t been for many years. Patient’s unable to move/ requiring assistance are hoisted mechanically. Any nurse who attempts to move a patient with mobility/or other issues such as weight is contributing to their own back injury. Any good practitioner would assess the patient prior to moving and handling. Stop spreading bad practice and misinformation claiming that nurses still lift.
Nevertheless nurses are still getting injured, Raquel.
All those slips during tik-tok dance rehearsals, probably.
Assessment is all very well, but patients don’t magically roll themselves on to sliding mats or hoists, neither do they all sit themselves forward as needed, eg to take medication. Undertaking a medicine round can mean lifting and manouvring many patients; stopping to position a hoist or pat slide for each one would mean the medicine round could take a ridiculous amount of time. This is where reality bites over the theory.
The problem is that the so called obesity paradox is that the most expensive patients are those that live longest, which is the overweight. “However, is obesity always bad when it comes to health? Certainly, obesity is a significant risk factor for the development of many chronic conditions, including heart disease. However, research has shown that in a number of situations, being overweight may actually be of benefit. This phenomenon has been called the “obesity paradox.” Our group from the departments of public health sciences and anesthesiology and perioperative medicine at Queen’s University investigated the relationship between body mass index (BMI, a commonly used ratio of weight to height) and outcomes after heart surgery. We analyzed a large database of health records of almost 80,000 patients having open coronary bypass surgery in Ontario over a 13-year period using data from ICES, a not-for-profit research institute in Ontario. We tracked five-year survival rates as well as complications occurring during the year after surgery. We found that patients in the overweight and moderately obese categories made up two-thirds of all cardiac surgery patients. However, these patients actually had lower death rates and complications than patients in the normal weight, underweight and morbidly… Read more »
But if the surgery is needed because of fat related conditions, then the obese intrinsically cost more in terms of health care. Medicine prolongs the life of the obese, basically facilitating poor choices and ill health.
Where is the evidence that those classed as overweight need surgery more often? The survey above compares surgeries between different classes of people with no indication that those in the normal weight grouping need surgery less. Medicine prolongs the life of all allegedly, the most expensive being those that live longest, because they need medical care for longer, it may prolong the life of the terminally dim as well. Poor choices – choosing an NHS instead of a 1st world system? From: https://www.webmd.com/diet/news/20090625/study-overweight-people-live-longer “There is more evidence that people who are overweight tend to live longer than people who are underweight, normal weight, or obese. In a newly published study, people who were underweight and those who were extremely obese died the earliest. People who were overweight, but not obese, actually lived longer than people whose weight was considered normal, based on body mass index (BMI). The research is not the first to suggest that those who carry a little, but not too much, extra weight tend to survive longer than people who don’t. CDC researchers found the same thing in a widely reported study published in 2005, and last month a separate group of investigators reported that overweight heart… Read more »
Gastric bypass/banding for obesity costs a minim of £5K per patient, often much more. Hip and knee replacements are often linked to obesity are in the tens of thousands, (https://digital.nhs.uk/data-and-information/supplementary-information/2020/obesity-related-hip-and-knee-operations-2014-15-to-2019-20). Gall stones, complicated labour and delivery, etc etc. There isn’t the space to run through the whole list of figures.
Cost of replacement knees for all the joggers out the cost of all the surgery and accident care for all the MAMILs falling off their bikes. Hip and knee replacements are often linked to lifetime wear exacerbated by manual work and participating in sports that impact the joints. There is also the lifetime costs of all the brain injuries suffered by the young taking part in sports. The majority of obese people are public sector employees, especially health sector, the private sector tends to be a bit leaner. Gastric band surgery is more self indulgent vanity spending. Gallstones and complicated labour can occur in people of any weight so not sure why you are throwing that one in. Again, the arrogance is in assuming we’ve got a right to decide who gets healthcare when those who aren’t politically correct don’t meet the currently fashionable criteria. They have all paid their taxes, didn’t have an option to opt out, so unless we move to a social insurance system we have no right to refuse. We already know the overweight live longer, are generally healthier and have better surgical outcomes than those classified as normal weight, it is the underweight and the… Read more »
Is this not because a lot of old and poorly people who are hospitalised essentially starve to death? For example, people with dementia. Yes fat people who’ve lost their marbles and/or mobility might technically live longer but simply existing on your fat stores isn’t living is it.
The ones who starve to death are routinely offed by the NHS.
Evidence that dementia can be substantially reduced with g high intakes of Vit D & zinc, which is against NHS guidelines.
Indeed, by how many and are you willing to set yourself up as Lord High Executioner who decides that Person A isn’t really living so they don’t get healthcare.
The consequences are not as immediately obvious but nhs resources are finite, spending billions treating people for obesity related disease takes money that could be better spent. This is similar to the impending cancer crisis being overshadowed by Covid, focusing only on immediate risk…
The NHS could absorb every penny in the country until the heat death of the universe and still be short of funds.
Maybe if we copied a 1stvworld system as seen in continental Europe which isn’t continually making excuses we’d be better off
We must end the NHS’ sacred cow status but alas, I don’t see it happening. We’ve just seen the ultimate politicisation and manipulation of a health care system.
True, we will eventually need to move to 1st world Social Insurance system like most European countries, Japan, Oz etc instead of the 2nd world NI system we have now.
I think we should shift to it now rather than waiting 100 years just to be sure the NHS really is crap.
No system is perfect but many countries have mixed health care models which function satisfactorily and there’s no reason that we shouldn’t. Public sector workers will not easily relinquish the benefits. As a retired ex-NHS worker I am very aware that the reliable, index linked pension I now have is a privilege that many private sector workers don’t have.
Virtually all 1st world countries operate some variation of Social or Bismarkian Insurance for Healthcare.
The one tbing none of them so.is operate an NHS, you’d probably be lynched by the public if you
suggested it.
They all have much less bureaucracy, better health outcomes and the GP cannot act as a blocking gatekeeper.
Germany, Holland, Austria, Switzerland, Denmark, Japan, Singapore Australia etc etc etc.
We need to look at those countries, see which system we like best and copy it, no reinventing the wheel, just copy something that works.
Many are fat, salad-dodging, pie-eating parents and they pass their unhealthy habits on their fat, podgy, under-exercised children. Starve a child and you can expect a call from Social Services; fatten one to ensure a future of health problems and folk like you will defend them.
I agree. There are no pluses to being fat, you’re doing no one any favours by indulging it.
There might well be be pluses when the contrived food shortages arrive.
Fat is greed.
Perhaps physical punishment would help?
What a miserable git you are.
I should see if SPI-B has a vacancy – bit of mind control should be up your street.
Not really equivalent, as getting slim takes considerable effort and time, while refraining from drink-driving doesn’t.
Addiction may be a factor in both.
Sorry, but a lot of seriously overweight people really do not think they are unhealthy.
Sure. But nevertheless one of the big early clues that Toad n Sage had an agenda other than health was that they ignored linked issues. I expected a campaign last summer to catch Diabetes and pre Diabetes earlier – free easy testing stations at supermarkets – advice, support on reversal of pre and early Type 2 Diabetes, free and non judgemental, given how big a risk factor it was.
Sponsoring with the magic money of outside exercise tracks for all those interested. Especial help for overweight children, perhaps now stuck at home with overweight and anxious parents eating to deal with depression. I suspect one obese child at least died of Covid.
But no. The Psy Spy ops was: “Stay home, be very very afraid, vans will arrive to help you Comfort Eat – wait for The Vaccines, which are all that can save you from death.”
Maybe this GP could ask the Government why it didn’t do the prediabetes campaign?
True, however the best way to prevent Type 2 diabetes is to remove carbs from.the diet and move to a high fat / veg or paleolithic diet.
Its worked all over the world, it just means admitting that OURNHS dietary advice has been wrong and the cause of much of the diabetes going around.
Exactly. Last year, I was near 25 BMI (yes I know that’s a flawed measure) and my waistline was really not good. During the first lockdown, I stopped eating processed foods and cut back on carbs. I lost 14 kg and now have a BMI around 19. It’s called taking responsibility for your own health. During that same period, my now ex-landlord sat in the lounge eating biscuits and watching TV while complaining about other people not wearing masks properly or getting the jab. She’s gained at least 10 kg and still expects other people to be responsible for her health.
Does anyone NOT know it’s unhealthy to be overweight? It’s much like covid though, the government shouldn’t be treating people like children – basic information is enough then it’s up to the individual what, if anything, they do about it.
That’s just preaching and virtue signalling.
Bet it’s the Jews fault.
You should see a psychiatrist with that sort of twisted mind problem and lack of grasp. Sorry that Covid’s got too you that badly.
Actually, the people in the “overweight” category are the healthiest and have the longest life expectancy.
It’s the underweight who are the least healthy.
For me it’s the cause of being underweight that makes me unhealthy. Got suicidal during lockdown and stopped eating. Drinking and smoking too much won’t help. I don’t do that when I’m happy.
Unhappiness is mostly the cause of overeating.
Very, very sorry to hear that, Laicey.
Bollox
There is a big difference between a little overweight and obesity.
Is it underweight or undernourished?
Incorrect, NHS stats show those classified as “Overweight” both live longer and have a greater chance of surviving an encounter with OURNHS than those classified as Normal weight and those classed as Obese.
Which stats are you referring to? It’s an implausible claim. http://obesityhealthalliance.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/OHA-briefing-paper-Costs-of-Obesity-.pdf
This point is made in Malcolm Kendrick’s excellent book ‘Doctoring Data’ page 118.
The point he was making was that the NHS BMI guidelines were not fact-based – BMI of 25-30 ‘overweight’ was statistically healthier than BMI of 20-25 ‘normal weight’. Over 30 ‘obese’ and under 20 ‘underweight’ were far less healthy.
I can only find an Indy link to this – sorry:
https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/features/why-being-overweight-means-you-live-longer-way-scientists-twist-facts-10158229.html
Why is it implausible?
There are nultiple studies from.round the world showing the same thing.
(Maybe if the goalposts hadn’t been moved in the 70’s to redefine overweight it wouldn’t be the case)
“According to a four-decades-long study of over 100,000 adults in Denmark.
There’s a growing body of evidence that suggests we might want to reevaluate the way we measure an individual’s health — a lower weight doesn’t necessarily equate to better overall health.
According to a new study of over 100,000 adults in Denmark, researchers from the Copenhagen University Hospital have found that those with an “overweight” body mass index (BMI) were more likely to live longer than those in all of the other BMI categories — “normal,” “underweight,” and “obese.”
Through nearly four decades of analysis, from 1976 to 2013, the BMI associated with the lowest risk of death actually shifted from the “normal” weight category to the “overweight” category.”
http://thescienceexplorer.com/brain-and-body/overweight-people-actually-tend-live-longer-normal-weight-individuals
A significant number of research suggests the obesity paradox is a myth. https://healthcare-in-europe.com/en/news/too-good-to-be-true-new-study-challenges-obesity-paradox.html
They’d do better by putting everyone on rations than they would coercing mass vaccination
Just sayin’.
… but the two are parallel totalitarian models.
No more so than the campaign against drink-driving. This should not be about the use of force, but of regular reasoning. Those who choose to ignore such campaigning should not be coerced or punished, but they should be enlightened.
Sorry – but that’s an absolutely stupid parallel.
Rationing is on the way.
No it’s not because they know that would fuck them, that’s why Tesco has remained open without everybody croaking.
Or perhaps we all choose what balance of quantity and quality of life we’d like, and ignore the imbecilic focus on length of existence.
Who was it who said “no pleasure is worth giving up for an extra two years in a nursing home”, or something like that?
Kingsley Amis.
Fuck both
Oh I agree. But if you (1) really care about health of your population and (2) were willing to become a totalitarian state in order to achieve it, then rationing would work better than half assed dangerous vaccines for not very dangerous viruses.
Plus it would be better for the planet. Bonus Bill Gates points!
China has demonstrated that a totalitarian state doesn’t need vaccines to get rid of Covid.
On it’s way.
So? What do you propose in terms of regulation of /constraints on peddling addictive food? What are the underlying psychological mechanisms that encourage/promote obesity (note the parallel with engendering fear in the population)?
And, given that increased population obesity correlates with a longer average life span – does it matter?
I’ve no pat answers – just questioning. It’s easy preaching.
I wouldn’t propose any regulation, just admit to young people that being fit & healthy looks better than indulging sloth.
“I wouldn’t propose any regulation …”
That’s fair enough. Doing f. all is indeed one option.
(Preaching at the young is done constantly – that’ also doing f. all in reality. As is wider virtue signalling)
Just sayin’
If only the government had access to behavioural experts who know how to influence the behaviour of the population… Hmmm?!
The problem though is that if they were to use the same level of brutality that we’ve been subjected to and deploy it against obesity, then ‘fat shaming’ is exactly what they’d have to do.
“Look them in the eyes and tell them you didn’t eat that last donut”
“Stay off cakes; walk regularly; protect the NHS”
“1 in 3 fat people are weak willed and cannot resist a plate of éclairs”
“Don’t kill granny, make her exercise more”
“Look them in the eyes and tell them you didn’t eat that last donut”
Best comment 😂
Good point. We’ve given everyone paranoia, OCD, depression and agoraphobia over the last year. But eating disorders have been sadly overlooked. We need to get SPI-B on the job asap.
The article exaggerates the impact of weight on covid (a young person could be massively obese and yet still have a risk much lower than a lean person in their 50s) and continues the public health narrative that BMIs over 25 are unhealthy. A BMI of 26 is associated with the longest life expectancy and the risk above that increases quite slowly (unlike being underweight where the gradient of mortality is steep). The message that most people need is that exercise is beneficial even if you don’t lose weight, and that maintaining your current weight can be a good goal for a diet program. Keep your blood sugar, cholesterol, and blood pressure down and body fat is irrelevant. Instead we apply a cosmetic goal and many people give up because they don’t think it’s achievable. I’m not saying that those with BMIs over 30 shouldn’t try to lose weight, but why does the public health community insist on a simplistic (and false) message that groups in a lot of people that are not at any significant risk. Also, the idea that people are being lured into being fat by greedy manufacturers and advertisers is ridiculous. People overeat because it becomes… Read more »
Is sex harmful in excess? I beg to differ.
It might result in the creation of new people who will then die. An unacceptable risk.
I wonder if that’s really what you meant but it’s patently wrong. The average life span has increased, particularly in the west, for multiple reasons and obesity has also increased (again, particularly in the west) but there is no correlation. If anything, the latter has severely impaired the former and average lifespan would be even greater were it not for the causes of obesity.
It does seem like another case of mistaking correlation for causation.
Great. I don’t drink, I don’t smoke, I don’t fuck around.
I might as well just fucking kill myself now. If it is seen as acceptable to openly insult people their faces about your weight, with full protection of an encouraging establishment, then I have no possibility of joy in life. This is despite having been a useful member of society for my entire life and hardly ever seeing a doctor.
It’s bad enough having to read the hate filled views of the fucking bigot, typing from behind the anonymity of their keyboards all day long. Now we have doctors saying that everyone should be telling me how to life my fucking life, which is none of their business.
Noone should be telling you how to do anything, but that doesn’t stop regular advice – which you must be free to ignore if you so choose.
What, advice like “avoid animal fats and base your diet on carbs”?
Actually the opposite: https://meatrx.com/
No fat Masai, they only eat meat & milk.
No fat eskimos, only ate blubber before westerners got there.
No fat Aborigines, only ate meat & roots
The list goes on.
I’d have thought it was obvious from my comment that I know that.
Sugar and a carb rich diet have done us no favours that’s for sure. And still they are trying to blame meat eaters for fuelling climate change. Of course Gates is in there, investing in non-animal lab developed meat which he believes one day will replace all other meat for sale to humans. What could possibly go wrong?
Excessive (highly refined) carbs are the killer. 0 nutrients. You should be eating plenty of nutrient rich food and you won’t go hungry or be fat. Ivor Cummins on the Fat Emperor blog is an eye-opener on this…
Love Ivor Cummins. If only he was our Health Secretary!
I recommend getting pissed it’s brilliant
It’s only really brilliant when combined with access to a dancefloor. Which we are STILL denied access to. 😡
You,re missing the point.
If a single group us to be singled out, attacked, vilified, coerced and deprived of citizenship rights because it is making itself vulnerable to Covid, that group should be not the anti-vaxxers but the fatties.
That isn’t to say that either group should be attacked. It just means that if it makes sense to attack any one group, it should be the fatties.
HUMANS are vulnerable to Covid.
Therefore we should attack them….
Get your fascism brand here!!! 🙂
Your risk of dying of Covid is probably higher if you’re obese and “fully vaccinated” than slightly overweight and not (using official vax efficacy figures).
Yep. What the f. is all this crap doing here? I don’t see much point in working against Covid fascism only to be reading alternative health fascism.
Just ban food advertising (brainwashing) and then see what happens.
Two of the fattest folk I know also happen to be the most ardent covidians.. always masked up, home deliveries for grocery shopping, one vows never to use public transport ever again and both think everyone should be vaccinated and adhere to strict social distancing.
What’s also striking is that both have also put on more weight over the past 14 months. Not surprising really being stuck at home, stressed out they might catch covid and end up in ICU. It’s a sure fire recipe for comfort eating and binge drinking whilst sitting watching Netflix night after night!
Show them this video
Secrets of Influenza – YouTube
Doctors tried to infect healthy “volunteers” with the Spanish Flu
They’re probably ardent covidians because they know full well how vulnerable their obesity makes them.
I know someone similar. Drove me so crazy I had to move to get away from her. Inability to take personal responsibility.
Being very overweight is probably not the ideal life choice and I think people would be happier if they were healthier and fitter throughout their lives, from childhood on, and remained physically active.
Given the insane lengths to which governments now go in the name of “public health”, do I think the government should play a role in promoting healthy lifestyles? No, I don’t. They can no longer be trusted.
Let’s get back to treating people as adults, and the government’s role OUT of people’s private choices.
… and also get pressure from big money out of people’s lives in the form of the PR/SPI-B industry actoss the board.
It’s a very sensitive subject, and political too, but I believe Boris could tackle it. He somehow has the ear of the nation and he could use his own attempts to get his fitness back to lead on this. I know some would see him doing this as patronising and it opens areas for political attacks about poverty and food policy.
Perhaps people may not know how excess weight stored around the body as fat deposits is very toxic and responsible for an inflammatory response in the body, which is what in turn leads to all the associated illnesses from hypertension, heart disease, strokes, cancer, diabetes, bone and joint stress and on and on.
No amount of magic vaccination is going to fix obesity. It’s very complex but very glad this doctor has raised it. Not sure how LS could take it forward though.
Probably the wrong man for the job, given the nature of it (not just him – the whole lot due to the structure of government). No one in that role is competent to advise people on a healthy work/exercise balance; it’s a built in risk they all accept, unfortunately.
It’s worse than that, he is relying on the likes of Susan Jebb who were in charge during the “epidemics” of obesity, diabetes and other metabolic problems, so obviously nothing will change. When my mother was young, “everyone knew” that if you wanted to lose wieght you cut back on starch and sugar. Some people still caslled dieting “Banting” ( see William Banting Letter on Corpulence). There weren’t many fat children, and this was often blamed on “glands” ie. hormones. Obesity etc. exploded in the eighties following the imposition of high carb low fat diets where the only permitted fat was industrially produced omega 6 seed oils. Farmers feed pigs grains and skimmed milk to make then fat. Dieticians feed people grains and skimmed milk to make then thin. No wonder it doesn’t work. In future it will be high carb low fat vegan diets. That won’t work either. It isn’t meant to, fat people eat more food by definition and are therefore more profitable. Diabetics take more drugs and are profitable (as long as they are kept from controlling the insulin and insulin resistance using a low carb diet). Insulin and insulin resistance is key to most modern problems.… Read more »
I view Johnson as a lying, stammering, sweating mound of blubber. I don’t see that any of that qualifies him as the man for the job.
Ivor Cummins has some good points about this. He points out that much of the information we have been fed about diet is plain wrong. He’s made a lot of good points about lockdowns too.
Perhaps we would all be healthier if they fired all the public health people.
Correct. The NHS promotes the food pyramid that is carbohydrate heavy with too little good quality fats – many people get fat and unhealthy on such diets
Got a cute for that?
I thought the food pyramid was an American thing, and is sub-optimal health wise because it originated with the US Department of Agriculture rather than from health experts.
Here it’s a plate but same problem. If you eat how we evolved to eat our bodies work how they evolved to work.
I’d like to see nurses settting an example.
A very good point
And dieticians
Just took the dog down the road. Two encounters within ten minutes. First, narrow bit of pavement with youngish bloke approaching, holding a toddler by the hand. He started hesitating and looked ready to veer into the road. “Come on through pal you’ll be hit by a bus otherwise” says I. He grinned and stopped to pet the dog. “This pavement dancing is just ridiculous” I said and he immediately, fully agreed in loud terms.
On the way back I came across a fella I know by sight from the local pubs. He’d obviously had a few scoops so I asked him if he’d been down my local, telling him I won’t go in while all the mask/app/distancing continues. He told me to go to the club a bit further on, and said: “Once you’re through the door they don’t give a shit, no phone numbers no masks, sit where you like and you can smoke in the back room as well.” So I’ve found a place I can drink in peace.
We are making ground. We are going to win.
Enjoy it while it lasts. We are not making ground. We are losing it faster now than ever.
I have to believe or I’d give up. I can’t give up. Believe me I despair sometimes but I have to keep fighting mentally.
There’s the attitude that the Fascists like best. Go and kiss Wankok’s toe. Or travel a bit higher if you prefer.
Is the club round here by any chance? ( South Wilts since you ask )
Sorry mate, West Midlands.
I should explain that I am Jo Starlin but can’t log in under that name on my phone for some reason!
I had been wearing an mask exemption badge for quite a while now – just to stop people from bothering me and I must say it has worked a treat – but most of the places I visit now know me so well that I know that they are not going to bother asking me about a mask and so I’ve stopped wearing the exemption badge and just go in maskless. Been doing this for a few weeks now and no one has bothered me at all – I’ve even stopped with the hand sanitizer at the entrance too.
I take my hat off to you, sir! I wish I had your courage. As it is, I’m a yellow bellied coward and, as much as I hate it, put on a face nappy to go in shops etc. Consequently, I hate myself for doing it and hate the government even more for putting me in this position. A negative spiral of hate that’s very unhealthy. My solution is – as far as I’m able – to avoid going anywhere that requires me to wear a mask.
It’s how I might react if confronted by some jobsworth that’s been daunting me; the fear of all the rage coming out and the consequences. However, I have just bought a lanyard for an exemption card and if questioned I can politely point out that my medical history is confidential. The masking in a pub whilst standing but not sitting, and in a gym when not exercising is making the silliness all the more silly-obvious. It’s time to break the hate-spiral and ditch the muzzles. We can do this.
Was contemplating joining a gym a month from now (when I’m hopefully completing Bridge to 10k) but not if there’s still any mask requirements…
Try a CrossFit gym! The brand is owned by libertarians so you’re highly unlikely to have to deal with any woke BS.
Get a lanyard – works a treat, and you won’t be required to hate yourself any more!
Me too but I’ve never used sanitiser.
“lifestyle which includes regular exercise”
But last spring government guidance -which they wanted us to think was law – was to keep our time exercising in the fresh air and the sunshine to an hour a day at most.
I actually had a cretinous cowardly covid cultist express displeasure when he realised I was on a walk that took 90 minutes.
They, along with their European counterparts, did exactly what would ensure more deaths – denying people both exercise and sunshine. Well done, Boris.
Wasn’t it half an hour a day to start with? And Wankok threatened to deprive us even of that.
I think our Wise Leader in Wales “allowed” us out twice a day last year! Less virus in Wales so safer I assume. Perfectly logical use of TheScience(tm). Just don’t cross the border! ….the Un-united Kingdom of Once Great Britain.
I got the most bronzed ever by ignoring this guidance while furloughed.
Lockdown has made so many people gain weight which seems to be so ironic given the increased risks….. I could not understand why the government embraced the stay at home message and have created the ideal situation (for a lot of people working from home long hours and increase in eating take aways can only mean one thing) for weight gain.
It is nothing like drink driving. Being obese only kills the obese person. Drink driving often kills other people too.
Eating excessively and eating “the wrong food” is a lifestyle choice; so is drinking which often leads to excessive consumption. The dangers of smoking have been clear for decades, but still people choose to do it.
As for those who claim that obese people should not have NHS treatment, well, I think the same way about people who take part in extreme sports who do it for the equally selfish reason of liking the “adrenalin rush” and who often imperil rescuers when their excitement goes wrong.
It would be so much more sensible to teach children from a young age the basics of good nutrition and healthy lifestyles through encouragement not preaching and scare tactics (are you listening Government?). Instead they waste valuable learning time explaining their “rights” to be whatever they choose (and never how to cope with the disappointment of being a failure through unrealistic expectations).
Fat parents have fat kids. Being fat has an r rate of about 3. It’s the same with anorexia, it’s highly infectious in schools.
Stupid parents have stupid kids
Do we trust governments to intervene there?
We try to intervene, it’s called education. Ironically social mobility worked rather better when we had grammar schools.
Well education is a sort of intervention, yes, but there are grey areas where school and parental responsibilities conflict. It’s very delicate. Children should not be abandoned to be raised by evil monsters, but neither should the state think it knows better than parents by default. I just think we’ve had enough “public health” for now. BTW I’m thin and a product of a grammar school so not personally offended by any of this. But I think we’ve seen enough of government overreach in the name of the public good to last us a while.
When I wrote “stupid parents” I was more thinking of people lacking emotional intelligence who may not do a good job raising their kids.
Post hoc ergo procter hoc — there was more social mobility then than now because of the nature of the economy (more jobs in non-metropolitan areas, less Home-Owner-Ism) rather than anything to do with education itself.
Incidentally, perhaps we’d be fitter as a nation if we had streaming in PE as well as in academic school subjects, so that the unfit could be helped more to get fitter. I guess the problem is that it’s too manpower-intensive compared to team sports…
“Are you listening government?” Are you serious?
The government don’t want us to spot their hypocrisy of forcibly closing the gyms, banning organised sport, ordering people to stay at home, and limiting going outside at all. Did it not occur to them that if they forcibly confine people in their homes, and stop them working or having any purpose in their lives, they are likely to comfort eat, and drink alcohol, out of total BOREDOM?!?!?!?! So of course they’re going to whisper about it.
Anyone heavier than me should be locked away for their own safety.
Just out of interest, what weight would that be ? 🙂
I don’t actually know, but it’s a ridiculous idea anyway, so I’m against it regardless!
I like my snap so fuck off telling me what I can eat, I’ve had 3 operations in my 55 years every one paid for by my parents or me because the nhs is fucking shit.
These are the charts from an article in the Lancet recently.
I think fat shaming would help. Telling people with fat guts hanging over their trousers that it looks awful rather than that they’re fat & proud would help.
Isn’t that replacing one strain of medico-fascism with another?
You obviously won’t mind me telling you that you are an ignorant bastard then. (I’m too polite to use tge C word to describe you, although I do feel like doing so). Another person’s appearence has no bearing on your life whatsoever, so what right have you, or anyone else to say anything to anyone.
How would you like it if strangers started approaching you in the stteet and telling you that you look fuck ugly and should stay indoors to avoid offending anyone.
I don’t mind in the least.
Have you ever met anyone overweight who didn’t want to lose weight? They may not be prepared to do anything about it & they may become abusive when it’s pointed out but that doesn’t mean they don’t want to be slimmer.
The people in the category “overweight” are the healthiest: it would make no sense for them to lose weight.
My BMI is 32 I’m perfectly happy about that. Yep, it’s slightly above the optimum range, but at 60 I’m really healthy: on no drugs and walking my dog for 2 hours a day.
Haven’t had a day off work since 2004, and that was because it took me so long to get an appointment with a GP that the infected scratch on my elbow required intravenous antibiotics.
Excellent! So Covid-19 tells me the optimal BMI is 23 to avoid hospitalisation.
Yet once hospitalised your BMI must be much lower to avoid ICU admittance. Strangely the risk of dying is lessened if your BMI is a bit higher at around 26. Is it that people in ICU are most poorly so most at risk of dying? Multiplying the hazard ratios for ICU and dying it looks to me that you get an approximate constant hazard ratio of unity for BMI up to about 26.
Rather than coercing people to slim or not, is it not sufficient to simply advise people? If someone knows that high BMI is bad and chooses to do nothing about that, so be it. I personally have no desire to tackle the north face of the Eiger (though the romantic in me wishes I would, or at least tackle one of the easier faces!), but I don’t think we should prevent people from marching to the base of the mountain and setting off up.
The problem with fat-shaming is (that by making fat people more depressed) it may encourage them to comfort eat all the more.
The problem is that the wokesters just won’t have anyone calling out anybody they perceive as ‘different.’ Personally, I would employ people in call centres to make continual calls to the fatties and call them names. I hate the way we pander to salad dodgers. We’re catching up with the Americans who, when they get too fat to walk more than 5 steps without sweating and wheezing, get an industrial strength mobility scooter. You can’t move for them in Florida.
Isn’t that replacing one strain of medico-fascism with another?
And I am betting most could still lay you out cold if you actually came out from behind your keyboard and said it to their faces. Of course, it will never happen because, as you say, you like to preach to others from the protection of anonymity.
Florida, where Covid doesn’t rule?
Would be interesting to know how many of Florida’s Covid victims were fatties.
Great article. The cynic in me would say that the pharmaceutical companies make more money from fat people (many in the government have shares in big pharma), so there is not much motivation for them to encourage people to slim down.Sick people are more dependent on the state, something our government seems to like.
But it’s the underweight who are the least healthy.
There are very few underweight, but many overweight and those are the ones filling ICUs.
But it isn’t people with BMIs of 33, is it?
It’s people with BMIs of 55 or 60.
i agree it’s the very obese who are at most risk.
Muscle mass is a confounding factor. Slightly overweight is beneficial if the weight is mainly from muscle.
We know those classified as overweight both live longer and have the best odds of surviving an encounter with OURNHS.
, whether muscle or fat isn’t specified.
It’s almost as if animals that have laid down a fat reserve to carry them through bad times / times of no food live longer, but Nah!.
Back in the day, when children were skinny through lack of food, the government did try and feed them (school milk, school dinners, child benefit) to make the population healthier.
And to be fair, there is no shortage of information out there from PHE and elsewhere telling people now to eat more healthily and move more. In my experience though, none of it works unless you really really want to lose weight. And it’s hard work. And people don’t want it that much and aren’t prepared to put the work in.
The problem is the advice is WRONG!
I was sent to a dietician “for my cholesterol”. She made me rapidly gain 15 kilos all round my gut and then told me I was “failing to comply” with the diet.
When I ACTUALLY stopped complying with the diet, I lost all the weight just as rapidly (and improved my lipids)
This is so commonplace as to be unremarkable
I agree. I think I read the article differently to many. I took from it that with so many people scared witless about catching ‘it’ and dying, the best advice from a GP would be to tell them how they can minimise their own risk factors (weight for many) – a world away from what has actually happened where the terminally scared have been told that they can expect everyone else to give up their lives and liberty to make them feel safe, and maybe bleach their shopping to be sure. That doesn’t mean people have to follow the advice, or that they should be shamed or harrassed, but it would be more honest than continuing to pretend that everyone but them is responsible for their health. Someone is more at risk of a worse outcome if they are considerably overweight – that seems to be true. Persecuting people for any reason is appalling – speaking the truth is not.
Well said, Charlie.
If medical ‘science’, and I use the term advisorily, had spoken out a few decades earlier about the absurdity of ‘ no fat’ diets, the use of sugar substitutes, and carbohydrates, the problem would not exist.
People in the 50s and 60s were not overweight or obese. The fad encouraged by the ‘health’ industry of taking natural fats and sugars out of diets and replacing them with carbohydrates and corn syrup has caused this problem.
So its a bit rich to get lectured by ‘health’ experts on this topic.
As it does about salt, which has also been the subject of intense and totally misleading propoganda.
I agree up to a point, but we were kind of set up for this by the way civilisation has been built on grain-based agriculture for its storage rather than nutritional qualities. The more industrialised we have become, the more processed it has become. So we have this perverse situation where the poorest in some of poorest parts of the world are malnourished whilst the poorest in the richer parts overloaded with carbohydrate in the form of stack-’em-high-sell-’em-cheap long shelf life products. The food industry has lobbying power and is a big part of supressing more a more evidence-based understanding of nutrition and health.
The influence of the Seventh Day Adventists is huge too. God told Ellen G White we should eat a grain-based vegetarian diet because meat causes lust and worse masturbation. Strange that He never meantioned that to Jesus when he did that thing with loaves and fishes
“Should have used the tofu, son”
Corn flakes were invented by the Kellogg brothers to prevent masturbation. They work – if you eat them enough you get diabetic neuropathy and arterial damage
I think she’s confusing the Fat Controller and his entourage with people who actually care about the populace. They couldn’t give a flying fuck.
I wish Boris would stuff his fat face more. Might get rid of the fucker.
It’s for sure the nation is fat and unhealthy but it’s hardly surprising given the way his business chums promote eating. It’s impossible to get away from. Fast food, snacks and sweet drinks are everywhere and ruthlessly adverstised. Drink a can of coke and you’ll feel so happy that you’ll want to play bingo on your phone and get into gambling debt.
?
Don’t know about fat shaming; I’d like to see a bit more GP shaming. Other than politicians, I can’t think of a group who’ve let down people more over the last 14 months.
Journalists?
Clergy.
Unionised teachers
Yet again, you’ll find this has been mentioned many, many times BTL. As always, BTL “has the story”.
We must also stop people smoking and drinking alcohol, playing sports and everyone should live in bungalows the risk to the nhs is just too great in a post pandemic world for people to do anything that’s risks the capacity of the health service to combat the new variants. We can easily identify obese people by their appearance but we can’t identify these other resource drains as easily before they become a use of the service. We must judge everyone not just the visually apparent.
Unfortunately for this GP, the medical profession has lied so much about various illnesses, treatments and statistics in the past that I no longer believe a word that they say….
I am not in favour of shaming anyone but I find it perverse that those of us who keep ourselves fit and healthy and therefore see no need to the the vaccine are slanderef and threatened with second class citizenship while nothing is said about those who threaten their own health and burden the health service with their obesity.
They burden it for fewer years.
The ones that cost the health service the most are the healthy ones that go on for decades.
The cheapest are those that peg it early, logically.
Reminded me of the script for one of the old ‘yes, minister’ comedies, in which the civil servants were trying to educate him along the lines of why smoking was good. Essentially, it makes them die earlier, saving the NHS money, and brings in excise duty at the same time!
You can go on for decades without going anywhere near the ‘health’ service. It’s an illness management service.
Hear hear!
Greta Thunberg accuses Chinese state mrdia of fat shaming her. https://www.rt.com/news/524557-greta-thunberg-chinese-fatshaming/