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Borough Market in London, normally a busy hot-spot for food lovers and those in search of a pint, was packed today as people gathered in their numbers for the first time since lockdown began

The re-opening of England’s pubs has rendered me, ahem, unable to do a proper update today but will do one tomorrow.

In the meantime, here is a post from regular contributor Guy de la Bédoyère that will, I imagine, strike a chord with many.

Sky News this morning featured another of those bizarro-world reports the broadcast media seems to be fixated about pushing out. This one, by Alex Crawford in Houston, was about the dramatic increase in infections in Texas. It was straight back to the Good Old Days of Covid Death Porn – except that there didn’t seem to be much death. But Ms Crawford had clearly been watching back through the Death Porn archives to make sure it ticked all the boxes. But somehow it just didn’t work out like that.

Needless to say, the item began with a patient having a tube stuffed down his nose – the usual opening scene in any self-respecting Covid hospital report. “The awful reality of Coronavirus,” said Alex Crawford, who moved on to a hospitalised patient whom she reported as saying that “Coronavirus kills you”. That he seemed to be alive, conscious and on the way to recovery had apparently passed both him and Crawford by.

“Even survival feels like death,” Crawford opined, perhaps frustrated by the lack of body bags on hand. This was a faintly peculiar thing to say since it appeared to suggest it isn’t worth surviving the virus anyway.

Crawford hunted on through the wards. We were treated to another victim who had a mask on but was otherwise sitting up and able to bang on about the governor’s irresponsibility for lifting the lockdown. Crawford added the revelation and dark warning “it only takes one infected person” to catch the virus. She’s obviously been reading the Noddy in Toyland Guide to Epidemiology.

The numbers of cases have “tripled” (no numbers provided). The doctors are “frantic” about how they’ll be able to cope. One told Crawford “if you go out on July 4th you have the potential of dying or killing someone else”.

I’m not sure why that makes this year’s July 4th especially or unusually dangerous since unless I’m missing something there’s been no July 4th in history in which zero risk was an option, either from a car crash, catching an infection or being mugged, or not going out and falling downstairs.

“There’s no shortage of protective equipment here,” said Crawford, which seemed to suggest along with the systems in placed that everything was under control. Nonetheless the doctor in charge of the unit shook his head and said there were still some people out there and he just didn’t know how they could still be alive. How indeed?

But it turned out that a cocktail of steroids, vitamins and anti-coagulants costing $100 per day per patient has resulted in a 96% success rate of those hospitalised. “The infections in Texas have spiked but the mortality rate is much lower… and they’re getting results.”

Crawford was quick to quash any sense that might be good news.

Crawford interviewed a nurse who was keen to warn her “that a lot of people are going to die being ignorant and ignorance is never a defence… and they’re going to be an example to the rest of the country” as well as countries like Britain. “If they don’t take this serious [sic] they’re gonna die… point blank.” Then bizarrely the nurse added “and they’re gone get sick”, but presumably not necessarily in that order prior to the inevitable death she was promising, apparently not being aware of the 96% survival rate of those who were bad enough to go to hospital in the first place.

Just in case you hadn’t realized how serious she was she threw in “and it’s gonna be bad”.

For good measure the piece finished up with a nurse who had been infected because after all no hospital piece is complete without a health worker hero hanging off the barbed wire in No-Man’s Land. She too was sitting up in bed and was able to warn anyone who had mistaken her for someone still alive, conscious and in a reasonable state, that if you didn’t hug your loved ones they you might never do so again.

The entire premise of the piece seemed to be that catching COVID-19 is invariably a catastrophe and that death follows as night follows day. That this was not corroborated by any of the content of the piece did not bother the fearless reporter or the people she spoke to. Nor did it match the news that the surge in infections in Texas seems to be partly due to much younger people getting COVID-19 who, as we all know, are far less likely either to get sick or to die.

Presumably even now the BBC’s battle-seasoned Covid hacks are on their way to Texas for a slice of the action.

Theme Tune Suggestions From Readers

One suggestion today: “Compete Control” by the Clash.

Small Businesses That Have Re-Opened

A few weeks ago, Lockdown Sceptics launched a searchable directory of open businesses across the UK. The idea is to celebrate those retail and hospitality businesses that have re-opened, as well as help people find out what has opened in their area. But we need your help to build it, so we’ve created a form you can fill out to tell us about those businesses that have opened near you. Now that non-essential shops have re-opened – or most of them, anyway – we’re now focusing on pubs, bars, clubs and restaurants, as well as other social venues. As of July 4th, many of them have re-opened too, but not all. Please visit the page and let us know about those brave folk who are doing their bit to get our country back on its feet. Don’t worry if your entries don’t show up immediately – we need to approve them once you’ve entered the data.

Note to the Good Folk Below the Line

I enjoy reading all your comments and I’m glad I’ve created a “safe space” for lockdown sceptics to share their frustrations and keep each other’s spirits up. But please don’t copy and paste whole articles from papers that are behind paywalls in the comments. I work for some of those papers and if they don’t charge for premium content they won’t survive.

Shameless Begging Bit

Thanks as always to those of you who made a donation in the last 24 hours to pay for the upkeep of this site. It usually takes me several hours to do these updates (although not today), which doesn’t leave much time for other work. If you feel like donating, however small the amount, please click here. And if you want to flag up any stories or links I should include in future updates, email me here. (Please don’t email me at any other address.) I’ll try and get another update done on Saturday.

And Finally…

Not-so-easyJet?

Can I ask for advice regarding the Young family holiday? We want to go to Venice and then on to the Dolemites in the last week of July or thereabouts and have found some nice places to stay. However, I’m worried about booking an airline ticket, only for the flight to be cancelled. How risky do people think that is? Are some airlines more reliable than others? And if they think it’s very risky, would they recommend going by train instead? Please email me here with any advice. Thank you.

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HawkAnalyst
HawkAnalyst
5 years ago

Did Leicester need to be locked-down – or did testing panic the government? What has happened to the city shows that, if you don’t want to be locked down, try not to get tested https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/04/did-leicester-need-locked-down-did-testing-panic-government/ A couple of members of the Cabinet are reported to have even gone so far as to demand that the city be closed off with roadblocks. But what if it is all an illusion – the rise in recorded cases purely a result of more people being tested? A report by Public Health England isn’t sure, concluding: “Evidence for the scale of the outbreak is limited and may, in part, be artefactually related to growth in availability of testing.” The report revealed that the rise in cases was purely down to “Pillar 2” tests – tests carried out in the community, which have increased rapidly in recent weeks. In Leicester, it transpires, four mobile testing units have been deployed. …………………. The perverse moral of the Leicester story is that, unless you want to be locked down, try not to get tested. The more people in your town who get tested, the more confirmed cases there will be and the more likely the Government will panic… Read more »

HawkAnalyst
HawkAnalyst
5 years ago
Reply to  HawkAnalyst

Britain’s Leicester lockdown is an unjustifiable travesty, based on shoddy figures and a bungled report https://www.rt.com/op-ed/493770-leicester-lockdown-wrong-data/ Key bits ……………… The lockdown was not based on a report, but rather the whisperings and rumours surrounding a report, which was released only on Wednesday evening. This report is by Public Health England – specifically a crack department of people who have given themselves the spiffy name Rapid Investigation Team, as if they are Power Rangers in spectacles. These boffins got worried when they expected testing over a 10-day period in Leicester to reveal 582 infections, but – shock horror! – 711 were recorded. Hardly a spike. …………………. It’s getting to the point where I’m having to cite Professor Sunetra Gupta in every article, and her statement (of what should be the obvious) that case numbers are too dependent on the level of testing to be relevant, and only the number of Covid-19 deaths should be important. …………. Back to the report, which states “The rise in pillar 2 diagnoses is probably linked, in part, to the availability of testing to the general public … rather than a true increase in the number of new infections occurring.” In other words, plain English ones, this is all bunkum, because… Read more »

Cheezilla
Cheezilla
5 years ago
Reply to  HawkAnalyst

PHE certainly has a lot to answer for – and the pill*ck whose bright idea it was!

HawkAnalyst
HawkAnalyst
5 years ago
Reply to  Cheezilla

Andrew Lansley

Cheezilla
Cheezilla
5 years ago
Reply to  HawkAnalyst

That’s a dirty word (or two).

JohnB
JohnB
5 years ago
Reply to  HawkAnalyst

A more accurate headline …

Did Leicester need to be locked-down – or did testing panic the government – or did the government plan it this way ?

HawkAnalyst
HawkAnalyst
5 years ago
Reply to  JohnB

John,
Leicester has been made an example of . . . . .

JohnB
JohnB
5 years ago
Reply to  HawkAnalyst

Absolutely. I merely pointed out that neither option in the Tele’s headline (that you posted) was, imho, the true one.

Farinances
Farinances
5 years ago
Reply to  HawkAnalyst

Exactly.

Do not.
Get tested.
Ever.

matt
matt
5 years ago
Reply to  Farinances

Don’t get a test. Protect your community. Screw Hancock.

Farinances
Farinances
5 years ago
Reply to  matt

((With a chainsaw))

Annie
Annie
5 years ago
Reply to  matt

Wouldn’t fancy him. Even with a nappy on both ends of him.
Yeeeeuch.

matt
matt
5 years ago
Reply to  Annie

Yeah, but if I add “figuratively” it’s just not as snappy. You’re the wordsmith ‘round here.

T. Prince
5 years ago
Reply to  Farinances

Do not
Have a
Vaccine
Ever

Nick Rose
5 years ago
Reply to  HawkAnalyst

A panicking government? Bit of a pattern forming here.

HawkAnalyst
HawkAnalyst
5 years ago

Elderly Florida Man Charged With Committing Aggravated Battery To Maintain Social Distancing

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/crime/article243927527.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMP5XYEDjw8

HawkAnalyst
HawkAnalyst
5 years ago
Farinances
Farinances
5 years ago
Reply to  HawkAnalyst

Come on Spiked. That’s harsh on the medieval!

HawkAnalyst
HawkAnalyst
5 years ago
Cheezilla
Cheezilla
5 years ago
Reply to  HawkAnalyst

Sounds like they knew they were provoking trouble when they singled out Leicester for punishment!

T. Prince
5 years ago
Reply to  Cheezilla

When I heard Bradford and Oldham might be next in line to be re-imprisoned, I did feel a sense that they were ‘poking with a big stick’ to try and agitate the communities in those towns….

Alan Sundry
Alan Sundry
5 years ago
Reply to  T. Prince

The communities that have paid no attention to lockdown whatsoever??? While most of us have been very sensible….

Rowan
Rowan
5 years ago
Reply to  Alan Sundry

Are you being funny or have you simply come to the wrong place?

Digital Nomad
Digital Nomad
5 years ago
Reply to  HawkAnalyst

Far, far higher numbers of police than were assigned to any city in the midlands or north to investigate the grooming gangs

T. Prince
5 years ago
Reply to  HawkAnalyst

Oh dear, baby Grant is back…..

Annie
Annie
5 years ago
Reply to  T. Prince

Dip his dummy in golden syrup snd shove it in his gob, it works with some of them.

T. Prince
5 years ago
Reply to  Annie

Try later, he/it’s a bit giddy at the moment…..

matt
matt
5 years ago
Reply to  HawkAnalyst

Honestly Grant – please have a point. So far, as far as I can tell you’re just annoyed that anybody dares to disagree with Nicola Sturgeon. You’re not going to persuade anyone by coming in here and calling us all crackpots. Please feel free to go somewhere else and tell them we’re all crackpots instead.

Chris John (Skippy)
Chris John (Skippy)
5 years ago
Reply to  HawkAnalyst

Could you kindly pull
Your bottom lip over your forehead and swallow?

HawkAnalyst
HawkAnalyst
5 years ago
HawkAnalyst
HawkAnalyst
5 years ago

Piers Morgan slammed for hypocrisy after blasting pubs opening but supporting son’s BLM protest

https://www.rt.com/uk/493738-piers-morgan-hypocrisy-son-blm-protest/

Farinances
Farinances
5 years ago
Reply to  HawkAnalyst

Nobhead.

Rowan
Rowan
5 years ago
Reply to  Farinances

I presume you mean Piers Morgan.

HawkAnalyst
HawkAnalyst
5 years ago

7 police officers injured breaking up illegal London rave as revelers pelt cops with bottles, forcing them to retreat (VIDEOS)

https://www.rt.com/uk/493788-police-attacked-london-rave-havelock/

Xenophanes
Xenophanes
5 years ago

The scene: Hyde Park, man found sticking blu tac to the railings.

Man 1: Why are you sticking blu tac to the railings?
Man 2: To keep the crocodiles away.
Man 1: But there are no crocodiles in the park?
Man 2: Shows you how effective it is.

Frustratingly many of my conversations with lockdown fundamentalists seem to take this form.

Cheezilla
Cheezilla
5 years ago

You sound to have had a good day Toby. Thanks for giving us the account by Guy de la Bédoyère. Absolutely brilliant!

Basics
Basics
5 years ago
Reply to  Cheezilla

Seconded. Guy is extraodinary my empty lonely home rattled to the sound of laughter at this

“Crawford interviewed a nurse who was keen to warn her “that a lot of people are going to die being ignorant and ignorance is never a defence… and they’re going to be an example to the rest of the country” as well as countries like Britain. “If they don’t take this serious [sic] they’re gonna die… point blank.” Then bizarrely the nurse added “and they’re gone get sick”, but presumably not necessarily in that order prior to the inevitable death she was promising,”

I saw the same Crawford fear-tale, Guy’s excellent colourful descriptions do not do it a disservice. Accurately dismembered. Thank you Guy.

Annie
Annie
5 years ago
Reply to  Basics

Reminds me of Lasaraleen in The Horse and his Boy: ‘Anybody I catch talking about this young lady will be first beaten to death and then burned alive and after that kept on bread and water for six weeks’.

Basics
Basics
5 years ago

Scottish Nationalists at Scottish/English border.

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/health/coronavirus/stay-fk-away-convoy-scottish-nationalists-attempt-blockade-english-border-2904148

The Scottish warm welcome seems to be forgotten in corona panic. Irrational irrationals acting irrationally. The government destabilising is working.

AdamD
AdamD
5 years ago
Reply to  Basics

I’m afraid that anyone who does normal stuff (like cross the border from England to Scotland, or go to the pub) is going to have to get used to being accused of spreading the plague.

GetaGrip
GetaGrip
5 years ago
Reply to  AdamD

I mentioned in a previous post we have a circulating story of 7 recent cases in a local town (Northern Scotland) being due to ‘English Contractors’.
I can see where this is going, and it is very concerning.

I hope Leicester doesn’t erupt into civil disobedience. This will only play into the hands of that bagfull of arseholes.

Rowan
Rowan
5 years ago
Reply to  GetaGrip

Civil disobedience is not to be ruled out and will likely become increasingly necessary as the government tries to impose further baseless lockdowns. What isn’t needed is violence.

Annie
Annie
5 years ago
Reply to  Basics

I notice that the article mentions some calls on the Sturgeon to condemn these energúmenos (Spanish word, meaning roughly ‘ nasty aggressive git possessed by a devil’, no English equivalent).
Did she?

Mark Hunter
Mark Hunter
5 years ago
Reply to  Annie

I haven’t seen anything to that effect.

Basics
Basics
5 years ago
Reply to  Annie

Itis a wait ‘n’ see… damning in itself the way I look at these things.

Sturgeon might be trimming her moustache – it is Saturday. Or doing other stuff.

Rowan
Rowan
5 years ago
Reply to  Annie

The English equivalent is sturgeon.

DJ Dod
DJ Dod
5 years ago
Reply to  Basics

Sadly typical of the mindset of the average SNP voter, it seems. With her talk of closing the border or imposing quarantine on visitors from England the Dear Leader is egging these people on. She has clearly forgotten that Scotland has (or had) a tourism industry…

And while we’re on the subject of the SNPeople’s Republic, a strange think happened at the Post Office today. I went in to buy some Euros, only to be told that they weren’t allowed to sell me any. Is this part of Kim-Jong Nik’s plan to hold us all hostage until we agree to vote for independence?

If anyone is planning a tunnel under the border, let me know a.s.a.p.

DJ Dod
DJ Dod
5 years ago
Reply to  DJ Dod

It’s not a Nazi comparison. It’s a North Korea comparison!

T. Prince
5 years ago
Reply to  DJ Dod

Oh dear Grant, me thinks it’s you that’s retarded….

Basics
Basics
5 years ago
Reply to  DJ Dod

Was just thinking grant isn’t out tonight… I bet grant is miffed in Scotland somewhere. Is it raining where you are grant?

Basics
Basics
5 years ago
Reply to  DJ Dod

The experience I have is SNP voters will condemn these people at the border/but without a fullstop go on to say the actions are completely right in the sense that English men and women deserve it. And anyway Nicola is doing great and is doing much better than Boris. Then, after me pointing out English men and women have no say on what goes on, and a tussle back and forth about how Westminster not the people do bad things, the conversation will end. To be replayed next time, no matter what subject sparks it.

I’m sure other SNP voters must discourse more broadly but not those I meet.

DJ Dod
DJ Dod
5 years ago
Reply to  Basics

I think this is because nationalism is based on emotion, rather than reason. It’s politics as a substitute for religion. What grates with me is that the spectacular achievements of the Scottish Enlightenment, when Edinburgh was the ‘Athens of the North’, came about because of the Union. Prior to that the Scots had spent all of their time fighting the English, or each other, to the neglect of everything else. Unfortunately, that seems to be the SNP’s vision for the future…

Basics
Basics
5 years ago
Reply to  DJ Dod

Interesting to read. I think you are right about the cult-like aspect, this does come through in conversation.

You are doing very well to discern any future plan. In my view the nationalist cause is doomed because of the chronic lack of diversity any current future prospects hold. An SNP police state. Perhaps, sympathetically to the conundrum of acheiving independence one party must unify the votes. But that is a hell of a scary prospect given the intellectual vacuum of the SNP, the Murrell household.

There is not a depth of talent shown by the ‘leadership’ I would like to see going into a situation of self government.

Sorry, off page topic.

OKUK
OKUK
5 years ago
Reply to  DJ Dod

Good point!

DoubtingDave
5 years ago
Reply to  Basics

I was in the Highlands of Scotland during the in/out referendum of 2014, It was appalling to see out “in” voters got treated, most we spoke to would not admit in public that they wanted to remain within the union.

We stayed in a village on the night of the vote, during Wednesday night before the vote, “YES” was painted on the roads in the village at various points, in letters approx. 1M tall, every lamppost in the village also got a “Yes” poster. Just to push to point on on voting day.

The one house which had a “no” poster on a pole in the garden was trashed on the Wednesday night / Thursday morning. By trashed they uprooted every plant & flower, and trampled the garden. throwing the flowers etc. into the road.

I am sure some SNP voters are much nicer.

Basics
Basics
5 years ago
Reply to  DoubtingDave

It was indeed as you say. Yes graffiti up, No posters and signs torn down. There is a noticable difference in noise between the two sides.

For the record still no condeming comment from sturgeon about the anti border crossing demonstration earlier.

Cheezilla
Cheezilla
5 years ago
Reply to  Basics

It’s Saturday.She’s probably having her hair done.

Annie
Annie
5 years ago
Reply to  DoubtingDave

Hence the surprise when the vote went against. The one place they couldn’t terrorise people was in the voting booths.
I expect the Sturgeon has fixed that by now.

Nessimmersion
5 years ago
Reply to  Annie

A known issue in Scotland is the quiet unionist, like the quiet Conservative when there are lots of SJWs about.
We know most Natzis are rabid mouthbreathers who think the world own them a living so the rational take the low conflict route and wait for the privacy of the polling booth.

BillJ
BillJ
5 years ago
Reply to  Basics

Does the SNP’s knuckle-dragging faction not realise that Berwick is the commercial centre for the east side of Berwickshire and that much of the movement across the border is by Scottish Borderers. Of course the clue is in the names Berwick and Berwickshire but perhaps that’s a bit too complicated for them.

Nessimmersion
5 years ago
Reply to  Basics

The Spiteful Nannying Party will do anything to attempt distraction from their own incompetence.
Every bit of govt they are allowed to mismanage performs worse than in England.
Scottish NHS – worse than England.
Scottish Public Health – worse performance.
The same is true of trsansport education police fire etc etc.
The BBC in Glasgow is complicit in the Natzi worldview, never asking awkward questions about new ferry’s being built for example.

HawkAnalyst
HawkAnalyst
5 years ago

New Zealanders worry about cost of beating coronavirus

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/new-zealanders-worry-about-cost-of-beating-coronavirus-qk6pvjqfl
…………………………
“Is New Zealand prepared to hold itself in its state of near total isolation for the indefinite future?” asked the paper, written by Ms Clark, Sir Peter Gluckman, the country’s former chief science adviser, and Rob Fyfe, the former Air New Zealand head.
“While we pin our hopes on a vaccine, it could be much further away than the hype suggests. Can we afford to wait out another year, two years or even more in almost total physical isolation? And at what cost? This is not just affecting tourism and export education but also the many ways in which New Zealand projects and leverages its place in the world.
“At what point will New Zealand accept less than absolute elimination [of the coronavirus]?”

Annie
Annie
5 years ago
Reply to  HawkAnalyst

Easily in but not easily out, as the lobster said in the lobster pot.

The Spingler
The Spingler
5 years ago
Reply to  HawkAnalyst

I have a couple of friends in New Zealand. They are leftie liberals (like me before all this started) so their reaction a couple of weeks ago to the people coming into the country who were then given exemptions to leave their quarantine hotels and potentially spread the virus, was quite shocking. They were fully supportive of all people coming into the country being guarded by the army, in barracks, at gun point. I never expected those sort of sentiments to come out of their mouths. They want the borders closed indefinitely and don’t care about tourism or business – they can be self sufficient for as long as needed. They are truly terrified.

T. Prince
5 years ago
Reply to  The Spingler

Why do you choose this site to pollute Grant? Run off and infest the Beano….

Annie
Annie
5 years ago
Reply to  T. Prince

I protest. The Beano was a jolly good comic.

Nessimmersion
5 years ago
Reply to  HawkAnalyst

AFAIK, the NZ bedwetters intend to close the borders for at least 5 years or until a vaccine is proven.
After all if it saves one life.

The notion that a populace used to frequent earthquakes is incapable of rational relative risk appraisal is bizarre.

HawkAnalyst
HawkAnalyst
5 years ago
Basics
Basics
5 years ago
Reply to  HawkAnalyst

An aside: Where does ‘vaxx’ come from shouldn’t it be ‘vacc’? The term ‘double cross’ is derived from the roman numerals ‘XX’.

HawkAnalyst
HawkAnalyst
5 years ago
Reply to  Basics

American term Anti-vaxxers

IanE
IanE
5 years ago
Reply to  Basics

Probably like the ‘fridge’ abbreviation for refrigerators: note the added d.

matt
matt
5 years ago
Reply to  IanE

How many people are going to buy a frig?

Cheezilla
Cheezilla
5 years ago
Reply to  HawkAnalyst

A vaccine against the deadly virus that has swept the globe….

Get a grip!

Professor Heidi Larson, anthropologist and director of the Vaccine Confidence Project at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine, said…

Is it me or is that a dubious/ominous job title?”

It is probable that even if a high quality vaccine is available, the number of people who get voluntarily vaccinated in Czechia will be rather low, which is not sufficient to develop herd immunity,” he warned.  

Thank you but people are quite capable of developing herd immunity by themselves.

JohnB
JohnB
5 years ago
Reply to  Cheezilla

She’s a very special one –

Founding director of the Vaccine Confidence Project, Heidi Larson, says that questioning vaccines is Hate Crime !

Basics
Basics
5 years ago
Reply to  HawkAnalyst

Thing is grant. You sound about as grown up and mature as me. I mean to say your comments make you sound foolish and slightly unwise or not bright. I think I get away with it because I say things with reason and obvious thought.

You seem slightly behind ghe standard. Have you had a really tough few months and perhaps you too are a victim of the lockdown ? Are you well grant?

T. Prince
5 years ago
Reply to  Basics

No, Grant is just a moron. it gives it/he a h*rd on to come here and shriek a bit of abuse in perfect anonymity…it’s probably being bullied at school.

T. Prince
5 years ago
Reply to  HawkAnalyst

And GrantM is a 2 year old man-child…

nowhereman
nowhereman
5 years ago
Reply to  HawkAnalyst

Our GrantM sounds like he’s desperately flailing around trying to secure a knock out punch, whilst realising his whole reality is disappearing around him as the deadly mist of Corona evaporates before his eyes…

Or he/she/it is a piss-poor bot….

Nobody2021
5 years ago
Reply to  HawkAnalyst

John Carpenter wrote a book about The Thing.

Adele Bull
Adele Bull
5 years ago
Reply to  HawkAnalyst

Are you actually Bill Gates Grant?

Ten
Ten
5 years ago
Reply to  HawkAnalyst

I think its best to describe the ‘anti vaxx’ movement the same as pro choice. I am not against vaccines or people that will be first in line for the c19 one. However i believe there are better ways to protect myself than being exposed to an infection grown on another animal and then injected into me.
Think about that for moment you take a vaccine to avoid the same infection. It just doesn’t make sense to me, wouldn’t being healthy to fight infections when nature intends make more sense?

If you remove the fear of “but what happens if you don’t get the vaccine” which plays into the same safe programming as “we need to lock down to protect everyone”. Its just blatant guilt tripping by powers that have an interest in you choosing what they want. If someone tells a human being at a cross road “go this way”, “its safer”, more than likely they will choose the safe road, its human nature.

Apart from the people on this site because they will know that’s its Bill Gates 😉

HawkAnalyst
HawkAnalyst
5 years ago

Sky News: Nigel Farage appears to break quarantine rules with pub photo after US trip

https://news.sky.com/story/nigel-farage-appears-to-break-quarantine-rules-with-pub-photo-after-us-trip-12020998

mjr
mjr
5 years ago
Reply to  HawkAnalyst

There are calls for an investigation ,,,,,” says sky. but from who? it doesnt say. maybe the reporters mother in law….. but the implication is that people are concerned that Farage shortened his quarantine by 7.1%

mjr
mjr
5 years ago
Reply to  mjr

just seen below …. Davey making a cheap political point

Cheezilla
Cheezilla
5 years ago
Reply to  HawkAnalyst

That’s great publicity! Hopefully others will follow Farage’s example!

Carrie
Carrie
5 years ago
Reply to  Cheezilla

According to Nigel, he had a test and it was negative!

Mark Hunter
Mark Hunter
5 years ago
Reply to  Carrie

But remember, just because the test is negative doesn’t mean you don’t have CV19.

Cheezilla
Cheezilla
5 years ago
Reply to  Mark Hunter

Just as, if it’s positive it doesn’t mean that you do.

Mike Smith
Mike Smith
5 years ago

Did we need another reason not to vote for the LibDems? Well, no, but here’s one anyway.

Ed Davey, the acting leader of the Liberal Democrats, reported Brexit Party leader Nigel Farage to Kent Police for having a pint in a pub on Saturday.” By Davey’s calculations Nigel should still have been in quarantine. For goodness sake.[source: Breitbart]

Basics
Basics
5 years ago
Reply to  Gillian

Coercive control in action from an unelected man prostituing his profession for political end.

Mark Hunter
Mark Hunter
5 years ago
Reply to  Gillian

Honestly, why would anyone pay attention to him for any reason other than advice on root canals, of which he’s about as interesting?

The SNP agenda of demonising England and the English is working, it would seem.

Annie
Annie
5 years ago
Reply to  Mark Hunter

Been going on for years.Remember Alex Salmond’s thugs terrorising people before the last independence referendum?

grammarschoolman
grammarschoolman
5 years ago
Reply to  Annie

SNP thugs are now trying to stop cars at the border on the A1. Silence from Sturgeon, of course.

Margaret
Margaret
5 years ago

I would take anything that Alex Crawford says with, not just a pinch of salt, but the entire salt factory! Last year she did a report on how climate change (man made of course) meant that the levels of the Zambezi river in Zambia were at their lowest level for 25 years. Her video showed the mighty river reduced to a mere trickle. However, if she had just taken her camera around the corner and crossed over the bridge into Zimbabwe, she would have seen a pretty impressive volume of water still tumbling over the Victoria falls, sending up a plume of spray that could be seen for miles around.
We know because we were there just days before her report in October-the dry season!

Tyneside Tigress
Tyneside Tigress
5 years ago
Reply to  Margaret

An inconvenient truth, as they say!

HawkAnalyst
HawkAnalyst
5 years ago
Reply to  Margaret
OKUK
OKUK
5 years ago
Reply to  Margaret

She was also in the lead telling us that the so called “Arab Spring” was a genuine democratic revolution as opposed to a push for power by the pro-Caliphate MBrotherhood

Basics
Basics
5 years ago
Reply to  OKUK

It might of been a conspiracy to mislead…

Margaret
Margaret
5 years ago
Reply to  Margaret

I hadn’t realised that her report on the Victoria falls had caused such a furore. There were a number of articles and letters in African papers taking her to task and accusing her of spreading fake news. Bookings were cancelled as a result of her report, in an area which relies greatly on tourism for income and employment.
Obviously her Covid report isn’t the first time she’s been economical with the truth!

Ian Roberts
Ian Roberts
5 years ago

I visited the pretty Northumberland village of Corbridge this afternoon in search of a tea shop. Few open and those that were offered take away only. So I didn’t bother and went instead to the tourist shops to make a purchase of something I didn’t need to support them. All the shops were festooned with signs not to enter unless you wish to make a purchase, don’t pick items up, two customers at a time. I gave up, on the way back to the car I passed a massive Amazon Prime delivery van delivering to a local. Presumably the irony will be lost on the burghers of Corbridge who don’t understand that to make discretionary purchases one has to be wooed not dragooned.

Bart Simpson
Bart Simpson
5 years ago

This person has been tweeting his/her experience in various pubs. Worth a read and many comments were highly entertaining:

https://twitter.com/EndUKLockdown1

Cheezilla
Cheezilla
5 years ago
Reply to  Bart Simpson

Pub 3 sounds ok! Shows it can be done.

Albie
Albie
5 years ago
Reply to  Cheezilla

Yes. And I think it will be similar to the supermarkets in the sense that one pub in a chain will not be representative of others, common sense or ridiculous rules will be entirely down to the particular manager of the premises.

Cheezilla
Cheezilla
5 years ago
Reply to  Albie

Did you see this on the same account?
https://twitter.com/i/status/1279360417903542273
It all sounds very phony and rehearsed. Presume it was recorded pre-Ferguson.
Boris looks huge, no wonder he was ill!

Cheezilla
Cheezilla
5 years ago
Reply to  Cheezilla

However, that makes me wonder how he’s managed to get fitted for his nice new bespoke size smaller suit while in lockdown!

Bart Simpson
Bart Simpson
5 years ago
Reply to  Cheezilla

Agree and looks like even within a chain like Weatherspoons it varies from pub to pub.

Cheezilla
Cheezilla
5 years ago

Just spotted this. Raises a lot of interesting points (sorry, paywall):
ONS data released last month showed that doctors and nurses did not have higher rates of death involving Covid-19 compared to the rate among the wider population of the same age and sex.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/03/nhs-cleaners-porters-coronavirus-super-spreaders-hospitals-data/

Sir John Bell, who oversees the Government’s antibody testing programme, said domiciliary workers in some hospitals were found to have “sky-high” levels of antibodies compared to doctors and nurses who treated patients in intensive care.

Do you think maybe low income and associated lifestyle might have something to do with this?

People working in elementary jobs faced the greatest risk. Of those, there were more security guard deaths than in any other profession at 74.0 per 100,000, or 104 deaths. The data showed that, compared with the wider rate among people of the same sex, those working in the lowest-skilled occupations had the highest rate of death.
“These data are already prompting hospitals to think differently about who might be most at risk from coronavirus,” Sir John said. “We mustn’t forget about valued NHS staff just because they’re not on the front line.”

So much for all those heroes!

WillemKoppenhol
5 years ago

Dutch government states COVID-19 IFR is between 0.32 and 1.00% On 25 June 2020 the Dutch minister for Health, de Jonge, gave an answer to a set of questions of the PVV party. Question 11 was: What is the IFR in the Netherlands? The official answer was: “The infection mortality rate was calculated at 0.32-1.00%, when calculating 0.32% the registered deaths (underestimation) and the Pienter-corona study were used. The excess mortality (possible overestimation) and the Sanquin study were used to calculate 1.00%.” So by using official Dutch statistics the worst they now could come up with was a range of between 0.32 and 1%. That is still probably way too high, but note that the lower end is already much lower than the previous lower number, which was approx. 0.6%. That last number was based on the assumption that there had been approx. 1 million COVID-19 cases in the Netherlands already (=the same Sanquin study finding mentioned in the answer), with 6100 registered deaths. So the lower range has already been cut by 50% in quite a short period of time. So, down to 0.32 and counting. Oddly enough however the special corona law is still being pushed by the… Read more »

GetaGrip
GetaGrip
5 years ago

Interesting. CDC IFR currently 0.4.

Back in mid-May, the Swedish epidemiologist Johan Giesecke was interviewed by Sky News. He was challenged on his IFR assertion as being ‘like flu’ (0.12 – 0.2).

He said: no, that was wrong, it’s higher, more like 0. 4.

In the words of the song: Reasons to be cheerful, Part 3…

WillemKoppenhol
5 years ago
Reply to  GetaGrip

It is “interesting” (but I have more negative terms for that…) to see how governments are actually publishing more and more data and numbers showing not only that the COVID-19 IFR is many times lower than previously stated but also that the COVID-19 IFR is probably even lower than the 2017-2018 flu. You’d think that governments would be very happy about that: “Phew, well, that looked bad for a moment, but great news, not much to fear any longer. Yeah, baby, yeah! Rock and roll! Common people, let’s undo the damage, go back to work, undo the regulations, we’ve surviiiiiiiiived!” But nothing of that, not at all. It is as if our governments crave bad news. But at the same time they publish these data themselves. Which is why I still believe in the incompetency theory and not a conspiracy theory: a competent but evil government would have falsified the data to show this was the end of times or have published no data at all (and make up an excuse for that), while a competent but benign government would have not been stuck in this to begin with (or else would now have apologized for making a mistake). But… Read more »

Winston Smith
Winston Smith
5 years ago

Do we like Vernon Coleman, I don’t know anymore, I’ve been to ‘spoons….

https://youtu.be/IRmIY9oWRP8

Cheezilla
Cheezilla
5 years ago
Reply to  Winston Smith

What’s your problem with him?

Winston Smith
Winston Smith
5 years ago
Reply to  Cheezilla

I have no problem with him, I’ve never come across him before in my professional heathcare career.

I sort of know the name, but I tend to not use Google with controversial subjects because they doctor the truth.

Most people use the internet to find out ‘facts’ and most people don’t own or read books anymore. My knowledge of history and heathcare is from books or experience.

I tend trust people here, what’s his providence/history?

Cheezilla
Cheezilla
5 years ago
Reply to  Winston Smith

He’s great! Check out his other videos. He knows his stuff. Former GP. Been researching this stuff for years.
Try this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVa8maJb5JU&list=PL1R4LBpVXfdcSRZlbnr98zDDngufWZaV0&index=41&t=0s

GrantM
GrantM
5 years ago
Reply to  Cheezilla

Hes a demented old coot who got blacklisted and disgraced long ago and like a charlatan he is using the pandemic to spread lies and fear to try and get back into the spotlight. He’s a fraud who needs help bigtime

JohnB
JohnB
5 years ago
Reply to  GrantM

He is (or used to be) a tad litigious, Grant. How good is your vpn ? 🙂

matt
matt
5 years ago
Reply to  JohnB

Please. He can’t spell VPN.

T. Prince
5 years ago
Reply to  GrantM

“He’s a fraud who needs help bigtime” Grant, welcome back!!!!

Basics
Basics
5 years ago
Reply to  GrantM

I am fond of the term old coot – i hope one day to rile some young whippersnapper up so bad that they expel air from their mouth making the sounds “you old coot!” As I work on getting older I am fashioning and honing my personality so that one day I too will be an old coot! Sadly I’m too young at present and be called “coot!” is simply is not the same.

Winston Smith
Winston Smith
5 years ago
Reply to  GrantM

Ah, GrantM, if I met you, I would embrace you and help you to go to sleep, night, night 🌙

Adele Bull
Adele Bull
5 years ago
Reply to  GrantM

You’ve just made everyone on here want to believe everything he says! 😂

Basics
Basics
5 years ago
Reply to  Winston Smith

He is pretty open in his videos about his history. 1970s first book. His website too holds a lot of info.

As a GP he was in trouble for writing inaccurate sick notes – hiding reason for sickness (pregnancy privacy from employers). A year later that aspect taken from the sick note for the precise reasons he was writing inaccurately.
He took himself off register in disgust at some point. Has been an author since.
He was on mainstream as expert guest but he says they stopped calling him since he is able to win debates in under two minutes, not the pharmacutical company way.

For wiw personally I highly rate him, based on gut instinct and my level of intelligence. Plus he says Monsanto is worst company in the world which is okay by me.

It will be nice to hear the professional view from others.

CarrieAH
5 years ago
Reply to  Winston Smith

Former GP who resigned because of the control of medicine by the drug companies, and the way he wrote sick notes to protect his patients, and became a whistle-blower. Slightly eccentric but very straightforward and seems to know his stuff. Obviously very near the truth at times because his videos are often removed by the censors.

JohnB
JohnB
5 years ago
Reply to  Winston Smith

You’d do well to find someone who’s written more books than Dr VC.

Winston Smith
Winston Smith
5 years ago
Reply to  Winston Smith

Thanks all 🤗

Cheezilla
Cheezilla
5 years ago

Who’s going to pay for this? Business expenses – ie consumer ultimately pays?
And what about the staff who’ll be laid off? This is hardly a solution!

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/04/hotel-buffets-make-way-private-dining-spaces-plans-address-hygiene/

Hotel buffets are being phased out under major revamps to address hygiene concerns, with guests given private dining rooms in their rooms instead….

Insiders say businesses are now planning a complete revamp of in-room facilities, which could see guests order food from their beds via an app and delivered by an android to avoid human contact….

Rooms will be redesigned so they can be changed around during the day to accommodate meal times and then tables and chairs packed away or removed entirely by staff, robotic or human, in preparation for sleep.

Ugh!!

Bart Simpson
Bart Simpson
5 years ago
Reply to  Cheezilla

That’s going to be the death of the hotel industry. Of course this will be all expensive so the costs will be passed on to the customer which means high prices and it sounds like a dystopian and soul destroying experience.

There is a reason why buffets are popular – they allow people to have and to try a variety of dishes and there’s also the social aspect of it all not to mention people watching and wondering what are they having? Ooohh….I’ll try that on my next trip to the buffet.

It’s the whole experience of dining which is different from the usual ala carte and table service.

Jesus wept.

Cheezilla
Cheezilla
5 years ago
Reply to  Bart Simpson

For people living out of a suitcase for work purposes, it’s going to make the experience very isolated. It’s positively alienating.

If they really think they need to do all this for a sustainable future, that’s longterm thinking for a future I’m not liking the sound of!

Are they really so scared of a bad cold virus, or do they know something we have yet to find out about?

matt
matt
5 years ago
Reply to  Cheezilla

I’m normally (old normal) on the road for work every other week and in a hotel room for a couple of nights. I can’t say I’m particularly interested in meeting people and I usually eat in the hotel restaurant specifically because it’s the least awkward place to sit if you’re eating on your own. But I do enjoy spending an hour or so reading a book in the hotel bar and ordering beers up to my room would be nothing like the same.

We really need to get back to actual normal. This stuff is just nonsense.

Cheezilla
Cheezilla
5 years ago
Reply to  matt

Sitting alone in a hotel restaurant is not unusual. And you are still part of the world as it goes on around you.
Being incarcerated in your room and served by robots is something else entirely!

Bart Simpson
Bart Simpson
5 years ago
Reply to  Cheezilla

Agree. I have traveled on my own at various times mostly for work or study purposes and while I have no qualms about eating on my own, I like people watching and even making small talk with the waiter or even the manager. The experience above will be very depressing.

It’s rather alarming that all because of a bad cold virus the solutions bandied about are designed to drive humanity apart and reduce human interaction further. Why? There’s something rather dodgy about the whole thing..

Basics
Basics
5 years ago
Reply to  Bart Simpson

Well said. The more of thse adaptations we see the further we get from this being an accident by virus.

In my view. This is planned, a coldly planned changing of our lives, brought in by the excuse of the virus.

I do not say the virus was planned – but planned for. This whole response waiting developed and in the wings for such a time as now.

Bart Simpson
Bart Simpson
5 years ago
Reply to  Basics

These sort of proposals is what feeds into conspiracy theories and you know that we are living in strange times when even sane people think they’re plausible.

GrantM
GrantM
5 years ago
Reply to  Basics

Planned………look up your nearest looney bin and check yourself in it ASAP

Basics
Basics
5 years ago
Reply to  GrantM

So. You live in Scotland and you are grumpy. What else do you have to say for yourself?

T. Prince
5 years ago
Reply to  Basics

A ‘grumpy numpty’

Cheezilla
Cheezilla
5 years ago
Reply to  T. Prince

No, just a troll.

Cheezilla
Cheezilla
5 years ago
Reply to  Bart Simpson

Exactly!

Ianric
Ianric
5 years ago
Reply to  Bart Simpson

When I am on holiday I don’t have a big meal at lunchtime to save money and have more time for attractions and have a big meal in the evening. A breakfast buffet where I can eat as much as I want helps to fill me so that I don’t need a big lunch.

Lockdown and post lockdown measures it seems are designed to prevent interaction between people. Under lockdown venues where people socialize such as pubs, restaurants, concerts, festivals and theatres have been closed. Workers are encouraged to work from home which prevents workers interacting with each other. Until recently we couldn’t meet people outside our households and there are still restrictions in place. In room meals discourages guest interacting with each other in hotels.

skipper
skipper
5 years ago
Reply to  Cheezilla

The utter stupidity of this is unreal. All we need to do is go back to normal as it was before. If we have a second wave then we go back to being locked down again, we have lost nothing really as we are still locked down. If there isn’t a second wave then happy days and we continue as normal.

I don’t see why the experts aren’t suggesting this, this complete aversion to any risk at all is so stupid, and isn’t even risk averse as still there is significant non COVID-19 deaths happening due to reduced NHS services and people still too scared to visit the hospitals.

Cheezilla
Cheezilla
5 years ago
Reply to  skipper

But it’s clear from the stats that the threat is completely over. What are they really preparing for?

skipper
skipper
5 years ago
Reply to  Cheezilla

Yes, and why are they still gagging the doctors and the media. What’s gets me is that there is no dissent from any politicians, all through Brexit there was multiple leaks and dissenting voices, yet those on all sides are not speaking out at all.

It is all very worrying.

JohnB
JohnB
5 years ago
Reply to  Cheezilla

Prepping ? They’ve got what they want, now they are focussed on trying to preserve it.

Basics
Basics
5 years ago
Reply to  Cheezilla

I think hotel windows were designed for a lot of that to be slung through.

The guys actioning this kind of expenditure need to be in some loop of confidence to be installing reworked ‘experiences’.

They need to know
A) things are never going back.
B) people are going to adapt to their inventions.

The variable I see they do not control is that people might not react to such contrived bullsh*t as intended.

There’s a lot of arrogant control in this.

JohnB
JohnB
5 years ago
Reply to  Cheezilla

Immortality beckons ! The chance to be the first person in history to proposition, or assault, a robot or android doing room service. 🙂

Cheezilla
Cheezilla
5 years ago

Rather than presenting data in a table on Twitter, we will direct you to our website when it is updated each day with a more detailed dataset:
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavirus-covid-19-information-for-the-public

Conveniently opaque?

matt
matt
5 years ago
Reply to  Cheezilla

624 positive tests out of 284,000. Mostly in pillar 2 (I hate myself a little for using that term) and so not sick enough for hospital. 163 positives in hospital (NB – not necessarily in hospital for COVID symptoms, although apparently you’re only allowed to go to hospital nowadays if you have COVID symptoms or you have a baby coming out of you).

This is beyond a joke now, surely? Why can’t people see that?

Basics
Basics
5 years ago
Reply to  matt

What are you missing matt? I ask provocatively!

Why are the safe guarding officials letting this be? Where are the MPs and the Lords? Where are the police even protecting our freedoms, our traditions, our ways of life?

matt
matt
5 years ago
Reply to  Basics

Agendas, agendas (and each of the organs you mention have their own agenda).

While the people are supine and the press indulges itself in an orgy of fear every day, none of the rest will do anything. My point was why aren’t _more people_ paying more attention? Take our dear friend GrantM. “Genuine risks”; “legit scared”. This is a moron, sorry, person, who has actually bothered to come here (albeit in an effort to be irritating). If this is the most important event in most people’s lives to date – and lets be honest, it’s hard to imagine anything else being front and centre – why the hell aren’t they paying more attention?

Basics
Basics
5 years ago
Reply to  matt

It is a darn good question. It would be lovely if none skeptics would engage in debate to explain their side of things.

I pick up a sense mr and mrs J Public do have critical thinking skills, finely tuned at that, but the media blackout and lack of internet skills (internet is just facebook right?) mean that accessing information and opinion to feed their critical faculties isn’t happening.

Short conversations with people has produce my thinking here. People have mostly scceoted they know little, and better safe than sorry logic takes them along with thr government line.

It’s a big ask for some without scientific understanding to become sherlock and work the propaganda out when they are living through extraordinarily stressful days.

Everyone is onboard with the politicians lying to us, thats a given. But how and why some people cannot get at.

matt
matt
5 years ago
Reply to  Basics

A 3 part question I’d like to ask Whitty et al in public: – taking into account the circulation of a new coronavirus, am I more likely to contract a viral infection (any viral infection) tomorrow than I was on 6th July 2019, if I go about my daily business as normal? – given the answer above, have the risks of death increased measurably for the average person in this country today as compared to the same time last year? – preempting the answers to both questions being “no” or “nearly no”, why are we expected to behave as if our personal risk is now unmanageable? I have a rough stab at an answer to the second question, by the way. The peak of deaths was on 8th April, during week ending 12th April. Total excess deaths, compared to the 5 year average that week were a little over 12,000. Assuming that this means that there was a day 4 weeks earlier when the virus was most freely circulating, along with all of the other viruses in the world and a UK population of 67,000,000, this suggests that when the outbreak was at its worst, on any given day, the… Read more »

Basics
Basics
5 years ago
Reply to  matt

Hum-dingers Matt.

– taking into account the circulation of a new coronavirus, am I more likely to contract a viral infection (any viral infection) tomorrow than I was on 6th July 2019, if I go about my daily business as normal?

No.

I wonder if Witty C may talk to you along the lines of this particular cronona virus isn’t going to kill you, but it is ~likely
~ it *will* transfer from you eventually to a vulnerable person who it *will* kill.

These numbers are so infinitesimally small as you say I find it incomprehensible Witty C isn’t calling time on this.

The ‘indenpendent SAGE’ group this morning are advocating for covid-zero in UK. That very statement has me thinking who this group are dependent on. There’s a clever behavioural ploy if both SAGE groups are being handled by same apparatus, playing off each other.

Thanks for your thoughtfulness matt, you really add to my understanding.

matt
matt
5 years ago
Reply to  Basics

By the way, I missed this, but was apparently in an article in the DT in the last few days.

GOSH has reported a 1000% increase in admissions for non-accidental injuries in the last 3 months.

Just stop and think about that for a minute and then look me in the face and tell me that lockdown was worthwhile because it meant your granny might live a few months longer.

Sylvie
Sylvie
5 years ago
Reply to  matt

I think the reason the average person isn’t paying attention to the sceptic case is a straightforward example of the ‘loss aversion’ subset of cognitive biases. See D Kahneman, among others.
The content and direction of cognitive biases are not “arbitrary” and can be controlled. Monetary incentives and informing participants they will be held accountable for their attributions have been linked to the increase of accurate attributions. UK govt reducing furlough will be a step on that path.
(Training has also been shown to reduce cognitive bias. Research participants exposed to one-shot training interventions, such as educational videos and debiasing games that taught mitigating strategies, exhibited significant reductions in their commission of six cognitive biases immediately and up to 3 months later.
However – can’t see this or any other government trying that one out any time soon – although it could presumably be integrated into CBT therapy on the NHS!)

skipper
skipper
5 years ago
Reply to  matt

Our friend GrantM is your typical Twitterati. Anyone who has an opinion which isn’t far left or even to the left is a racist.

Tish
Tish
5 years ago

One reason for apparent Covid 19 infection rise in the US: The Atlantic reported back in May that CDC was conflating antibody and virus test figures, and that this has particular implications for highly populated states such as Texas:
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/05/cdc-and-states-are-misreporting-covid-19-test-data-pennsylvania-georgia-texas/611935/

Cheezilla
Cheezilla
5 years ago

You’d think the NHS would have saved a fortune from all those operations and tests they have refused to do recently.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/jul/04/nhs-chiefs-in-standoff-with-treasury-over-emergency-10bn

NHS bosses have accused the chancellor, Rishi Sunak, of breaking a pledge to give the health service “whatever it needs” after he refused to provide a £10bn cash injection needed to avoid it being crippled by a second wave of the coronavirus.
They have warned ministers that without the money the NHS will be left perilously unprepared for next winter and the second spike in infections which doctors believe is inevitable. Nor will they be able to restart non-Covid services or treat the growing backlog in patients needing surgery.

Suspiciously hyperbolic argument!

The Treasury is insisting that the NHS commits to keeping the waiting list – which currently stands at 4.4 million people – down to certain levels by certain dates through private hospitals doing agreed numbers of procedures. It believes that much of the £1.2bn spent so far has been wasted because many hospitals did worryingly few operations in the early stages of the pandemic.

Interesting game of hardball being played here!

matt
matt
5 years ago
Reply to  Cheezilla

I’m not sure this is a Mexican stand-off the government is likely to win. I really struggle to understand why the NHS might need the extra cash on top of what’s been ploughed in so far, but unless the cabinet manage to grow a pair (or find a whole pair between them) in the next few weeks, it seems inevitable that they’ll cave.

Cheezilla
Cheezilla
5 years ago
Reply to  matt

Maybe they need to insist that the expenditure so far is accounted for before they’ll part with another penny.

Basics
Basics
5 years ago
Reply to  matt

Councils are claiming huge loss of money while they’ve been covviding from home with no services to provide.

It seems this might be an oppotunity the public sector sees to write away pre-covid hidden debts.

skipper
skipper
5 years ago
Reply to  Basics

Leaders at councils will be expecting their six figure salaries to go up to seven figures with the extra funding

Nick Rose
5 years ago
Reply to  matt

Just goes to show that however much you spend, it is never enough. Like most other people, those who run the NHS really need a lesson in basic household economics.

CarrieAH
5 years ago
Reply to  Cheezilla

Sheesh how much more money does the behemoth known as “our NHS” want?! They had Nightingale hospitals built for them in two weeks flat, with masses of new equipment (actually, where did all that equipment come from at such short notice?) they’ve done nothing except deal with Covid plus some emergency patients for the last 3 months, have ignored cancer patients, and generally spent a lot of money. Yet they want more?!

skipper
skipper
5 years ago
Reply to  Cheezilla

If there’s one thing I’ve learned from working in the NHS it’s that no matter how much money there is it will be wasted.

One, example was that the trust I worked for brought 3,000 computers all of which had faulty hard drives. The trust instead of playing hard ball with the supplier just wrote the computers off. These were £1,000 computers you could buy from PC World, but because the company was an authorised supplier to the NHS we paid £3,000 for each PC, therefore writing off £9 million.

This was just one of many projects that were just written off. No heads rolled for it, and money just still came flooding in for other projects. This is why it riles me when I see all these idiots on social media complaining about government funding for the NHS and constantly asking for more money. They have never seen how the NHS works, if they did they would have a far different opinion.

Farinances
Farinances
5 years ago
Reply to  skipper

Wow. I’ve experienced the wastage myself but nothing like to this scale, and it was still enough to make me rage. One of my mates working in nhs procurement used to tell me about the rush to spend the annual budget at the end of each financial year in order to secure the same or greater budget next year. If they spent efficiently and saved money, they were ‘punished’ with a lower budget next term. So they’d just spend with impunity. He used to buy a new office chair, furniture etc. Every year! For everyone in the office! !

skipper
skipper
5 years ago
Reply to  Farinances

This was back in 2001 as well, so you can imagine how much that £9 million would be worth now.

Another project we did back the was a roleout of tablets to consultants and all management in the trust. This was before any kind of decent tablet like iPad. These tablets were cutting edge at the time and they were around £10k each, there must’ve been 300 staff that had those. Once again not fit for purpose, so written off at a cost of £3 million.

The next project I worked on was Electronic Patient Records, this was the mother of all write offs: £10 billion!!!!!

Paul B
Paul B
5 years ago
Reply to  Farinances

This is regularly trotted out at a college I worked at and one I know of that is supplied, ‘spend it now or lose it’ at the end of the year.

Cheezilla
Cheezilla
5 years ago
Reply to  Farinances

I saw the same thing as a teacher with a stockroom overflowing with last year’s requisitions but needing to keep up to the budget or lose it.
Later the same, working in a council department – “how can we spend the surplus of last year’s money so we get some more for next year?”
Stupid wasteful policy, introduced by people who weren’t on the front line and hadn’t a clue!

Nick Rose
5 years ago
Reply to  Farinances

This is the Civil Service disease, it is endemic throughout the public sector and at every level.

Cheezilla
Cheezilla
5 years ago
Reply to  Nick Rose

It’s even worse when other departments are short of funds but can’t get any.

matt
matt
5 years ago
Reply to  skipper

A few years ago I went back to the family home for Christmas. There was a brand new laptop, sitting around in its box, still wrapped in cellophane. I asked my mum about it and she said “oh, you know how it is – you get to the end of the year and there’s budget left over, so you have to spend it on something.” No, mother, I don’t know how it is. I spend a lot of the last 6 weeks of the year chasing money in and making sure everything has been invoiced that possibly can be, because if my P&L doesn’t look healthy enough, I get sacked. Alternative anecdote – I knew a senior IBM procurement guy who had once been seconded to the police for a few months. He was amazed to discover that, despite the fact that every police uniform across the country was virtually identical for every force, every single police force bought they’re own uniforms, with no kind of coordinated procurement. He estimated that the waste was in the 10s of millions as compared with an efficient centralised procurement policy (and believe me – if you want to see an efficient centralised procurement… Read more »

skipper
skipper
5 years ago
Reply to  matt

Your mum is right, if budgets aren’t spent then the next year’s budget is reduced by the unspent amount. That goes in the NHS and in Councils.

matt
matt
5 years ago
Reply to  skipper

Yes, I’m aware – I just find it stupefying. And even more so that no government in the last 40 years has spotted the fact that simply reversing the incentive would be an excellent way to save money and improve efficiency. The first place I look when I’m trying to work out how to change the way that departments and people I’m responsible for behave is incentives. It usually turns out you’re incentivising the wrong thing and So making the right thing irrelevant. It’s a really simple fix.

skipper
skipper
5 years ago
Reply to  matt

There is just utter stupidity at councils. When I moved to live my girlfriend I got a job at a council. In the four years I was there I saved them over a million pounds in consultancy as I did it all for them, so they didn’t need to pay external companies.

I then got any offer from another company but I was happy at the council so I asked them for a 10k wage rise, and did a breakdown of all the savings I made for them. The decision was that they couldn’t justify a £10k rise so I left. So once I left they had to then go back to external companies for all the consultancy. Utter stupidity and a waste of taxpayers money.

Cheezilla
Cheezilla
5 years ago
Reply to  skipper

My friend, straight out of uni with no accounting or book-keeping qualifications, got a job auditing the NHS accounts. She found a £5m error in her first audit – this was after qualified accountants had peen paid several times her salary to check and verify them.
That was back in 1995, when £5m was worth considerably more than today – and just one NHS trust out of hundreds!

DoubtingDave
5 years ago
Reply to  skipper

Much of the public sector is the same. Best to overspend so your budget is not reduced.

Cheezilla
Cheezilla
5 years ago
Reply to  matt

On the other hand, my DiL has just become a pc and is having to buy her own satnav – for the police car! She has her own car, so it’s not as if she’s taking the police car home. Wouldn’t you think there’d be a joblot fitted as standard?

matt
matt
5 years ago
Reply to  Cheezilla

You must actually have to try extra hard to buy a new car without an inbuilt satnav nowadays.

Cheezilla
Cheezilla
5 years ago
Reply to  matt

She needs one that clearly shows the name of the street she’s on.

JohnB
JohnB
5 years ago
Reply to  Cheezilla

Sure that’s not just her new colleagues havin’ a larf ?

skipper
skipper
5 years ago
Reply to  Cheezilla

In car satnav can be a serious amount, a lot of the time in the thousands, whereas a TomTom or Garmin is around a £100, and can be moved from one car to another if one has to be repaired. Does she get the money back for the satnav on expenses?

Cheezilla
Cheezilla
5 years ago
Reply to  skipper

Doesn’t seem so.

Basics
Basics
5 years ago
Reply to  skipper

Absolutely. One single illustration I witnessed was hoardes of NHS staff rumbling on with the worst microsoft os computers for a decade after the system was oboslete from professional life elsewhere.

The vast amount of hours lost to unproductivity and lost work due to that single situation was enormous, to say nothing of the stress such poor equipement causes.

The waste is all encompassing.

skipper
skipper
5 years ago
Reply to  Basics

The other things is the extremely high amount of staff who are off sick. Bad back and stress were the main excuses. We used to have staff who would be on sick then come in after 5 months as 6 months of triggered a review where the could be laid off, they would work for 1 month, then go off again on full pay and the process would rinse and repeat.

It got so bad where I was that they had to do a Management of Change which cost half a million pounds, so that they could make these staff positions not relevant any more, and everyone would have to re-apply for the new jobs. It was an unbelievable waste of time and resources having to undertake all the whole interview process and the employment process.

Basics
Basics
5 years ago
Reply to  skipper

Happening all over just as you say.

Cheezilla
Cheezilla
5 years ago
Reply to  Basics

I had to laugh when they announced the NHS world-beating track and trace system. My local NHS trust can’t even communicate effectively between departments!

Cruella
Cruella
5 years ago
Reply to  Basics

Oh please God, don’t mention the software we have to use and the time spent on its constant failure. Windows 7 baby, want to be efficient? No, sorry the NHS doesn’t have any money!! My unit employs two people to manage our IT rather than pay for an upgrade – windows 7 on the shittest dell computers.

mjr
mjr
5 years ago
Reply to  Cruella

which of course is why the NHS got hit by that virus a year or so ago.. Hardly affected anyone else as no one else still uses v7.. Hadnt the NHS forgotten to apply upgrade patches (assuming that it is still supported)

Basics
Basics
5 years ago
Reply to  Cruella

To confirm shittest dell computers is the precisely correct description. They ought to swab some of the nastier keyboards in an effort to find material for the covid vaccine.

Annie
Annie
5 years ago
Reply to  Cheezilla

Balls, rather. Balls, balls and bollocks.
They’ve been predicting waves and spikes non-stop for weeks. Now they want real money to deal with an imaginary future spike. Meanwhile, people with real illnesses are left to suffer and die.
I hate the NHS.

skipper
skipper
5 years ago
Reply to  Annie

I concur. Don’t know if you saw about Shrewsbury and Telford Health Trust, 41 years of cover ups and gagging staff, over 1,200 cases of malpractice being investigated.

T. Prince
5 years ago
Reply to  skipper

Good God, 1,200 cases? Now I hope all that become public

skipper
skipper
5 years ago
Reply to  Annie

I also should’ve said sarcastically “Clap for the NHS!

T. Prince
5 years ago
Reply to  skipper

Or do you mean ‘crap’…

Basics
Basics
5 years ago
Reply to  skipper

And of course, the majority of nurses, doctors, etc do incredible things routinely in their daily job despite full knowledge of the management discussed above.

Paul B
Paul B
5 years ago
Reply to  Annie

I hate the NHS, and that’s considering they saved my fathers life, well the people in the restaurant did that, but they gave him a bed for a bit after, no explanation for the heart attack, a internal defib and more poisonous medicine – no issues since, he was probably dehydrated from the meds and poisioned by the statins and god knows what blood pressure medicine.

They routinely talk down to me, push me out the door, go to drugs first every time and seem to care little for prevention or quality of life.

Feeling blue, here’s a business card, self refer and they will see you in 3 months. Can’t move, here’s a physio’s business card, self refer and they will see you in 6 months.

Joke squad – maybe they will stitch you up if you’re injured but beyond that don’t count on it.

james007
james007
5 years ago
Reply to  Annie

A friend who is a nurse showed me a picture of an empty cancer ward which was cleared for COVID-19. It wasnt used, much like the nightingale hospitals.
We get 165,000 deaths per year from cancer.
The NHS is a healthcare rationing system. But increasing its resources doesnt seem to leave more healthcare to go round..

skipper
skipper
5 years ago
Reply to  james007

One of the IT staff at the hospital I’m doing work for at the mo was telling me he walked into a ward to connect some cables. He connected the cables and walked out but on coming out he was asked why he was in the COVID-19 ward. He didn’t know it had been designated a COVID-19 ward and there was no one in there so still looked unused. He was also not told to self isolate which is very odd with him being potentially exposed to COVID-19.

Cruella
Cruella
5 years ago
Reply to  Annie

No, you hate the government, the NHS isn’t making these decisions. Maybe PHE, but not the NHS it isn’t a thing, it’s a collective of many services organised, funded and controlled by governement. So infantile.

james007
james007
5 years ago
Reply to  Cheezilla

I think that the NHS costs around £4,500 per working person in the UK. This figure will obviously rise in the short term, when many workers will become unemployed and require benefits to sustain themselves and their families. It’s hard to see how we can afford for it to rise further. Eventually the UK becomes mainly a health service, with a dwindling economy attached to it.
With the NHS you often eventually get very good care, but it can be a nightmare getting there. I worry about having to use it. Private cover is so expensive in the UK.
I am so bored of the politics of the NHS. I wish it could be neutralised as a political issue. Every election Labour says the Convervatives would scrap “our NHS” and replace it (fat chance!) and the Conservatives counter with spending promises. It never seems to end.

matt
matt
5 years ago
Reply to  james007

My experience says that acute care is very good (putting aside waiting times in A&E) and chronic care is appalling. It’s completely unsustainable and was since long before this ‘crisis’. One of the reasons it is is that they won’t take insurance payments for treatment even from people who are insured (and a large number of the employed population are insured through work). I’ve offered my insurance details before when my kid had to go to A&E and then have a minor op (he shut his finger in the door. Nail removed a week later, nail bed cleaned) they weren’t remotely interested. If we could move away from a culture where using private insurance was frowned upon and the NHS can’t be bothered with the paperwork to a culture where you use Insurance where you can and state funding otherwise, there would be far more money in the system. Premiums would go up and probably fewer people would be given health insurance as a default benefit, but the overall effect would be hugely beneficial. And if we could then find a way to genuinely incentivise trusts to be efficient (for example by providing bonuses for having cash left over at… Read more »

Cheezilla
Cheezilla
5 years ago
Reply to  matt

My experience says that acute care is very good (putting aside waiting times in A&E) and chronic care is appalling.

Agree – though my DiL recently broke her wrist and A&E set it wrongly. Fortunately she has BUPA and it was reset. There’s some nerve damage and she’s very lucky it’s not serious. She’s still going for physio (private!) months later.

Care for chronic conditions is appalling and will make them worse, especially the dietary recommendations. I was recently given a sugested diet for BP. I returned, pointing out that the recommended breakfast contained the equivalent of 16 teaspoonsful of sugar and the day’s total was 50 teaspoonsful. The nurse commented that maybe I didn’t want to try following the diet then? I said I’d rather have slightly elevated BP than diabetes thanks!

skipper
skipper
5 years ago
Reply to  Cheezilla

One of the worst claims I saw was a guy who came in for a hernia operation.

He had the op and was discharged to go home. After a few days he said there was a pungent smell in his bungalow, so he got his brother to clean the whole kitchen as he thought it was something in there.

A couple of days later the smell was still there and he collapsed and was rushed to hospital.

He was immediately operated on and they found that the blood supply to his testicles had been cut during the hernia operation. The smell in his bungalow was actually his testicles rotting because of Gangrene which had to be removed!

CarrieAH
5 years ago
Reply to  skipper

Unless it was a dreadful emergency, I wouldn’t go anywhere near an NHS hospital. I’m not even registered with an NHS GP. Haven’t been for over 20 years now and I’m much healthier than friends who appear to be on a never-ending cycle of drugs. I’m a qualified clinical herbalist, and whilst I’m not against drugs if necessary, I am totally against the hold that Big Pharma have on medicine in the West.

Nick Rose
5 years ago
Reply to  Cheezilla

The NHS has been “perilously unprepared for next winter” ever since 1947. Amazed it still manages really.

GrantM
GrantM
5 years ago
Reply to  Cheezilla

Weirdos. Yeah shame those who are legit scared. What a wonderful bunch of sociopaths you are turning out to be

matt
matt
5 years ago
Reply to  GrantM

You’re just boring now.

nowhereman
nowhereman
5 years ago
Reply to  GrantM

Grant – I love you, I wish I was you! So inspiring!! {puke}

T. Prince
5 years ago
Reply to  nowhereman

Don’t give it too much attention, it’ll burst!

matt
matt
5 years ago
Reply to  T. Prince

We can but hope.

T. Prince
5 years ago
Reply to  matt

It does make you realise if Grant is on the ‘other side’, then all on here are definitely on the right side. But Grant is too stoopid to realise…

james007
james007
5 years ago
Reply to  GrantM

Not sociopaths. Quite the opposite.

T. Prince
5 years ago
Reply to  GrantM

“legit scared” Says it all really, spoken like a real twerp

mjr
mjr
5 years ago
Reply to  GrantM

just realised who it is … Student Grant from Viz
https://www.flickr.com/photos/combomphotos/6140877288

IanE
IanE
5 years ago
Reply to  Cheezilla

A very rare occasion when the GroanAid more or less captures reality.

Cheezilla
Cheezilla
5 years ago
Reply to  IanE

The cartoons are often very good.

HawkAnalyst
HawkAnalyst
5 years ago

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/07/02/is-the-uk-government-misleading-the-public-on-covid-tests/

Is the UK government misleading the public on COVID tests?

 the UK’s statistics collectors were recently required to move from their original basis of counting people tested to counting tests performed instead. This, obviously, resulted in increases in the headline numbers of tests right through the course of the epidemic. It also, unfortunately, meant that all the daily numbers of tests done in the UK prior to April 26th got wiped. And, while this move did bring the UK more into line with many other countries’ reporting procedures, countries such as Canada, Japan and the Netherlands are still reporting by people tested. So, my guess is that this move (likely both difficult and expensive), the over-reporting of test numbers, and the poor presentation of the data that Sir David criticizes, have all come about because of political pressure from those who want the numbers to look as good as possible. Sigh.

T. Prince
5 years ago
Reply to  HawkAnalyst

Is the UK government misleading the public on COVID tests?

YES

skipper
skipper
5 years ago

Just been watching the F1 from this afternoon. All these people look so stupid doing interviews with masks and other PPE on.

I find it quite comical as well that they are always mentioning social distancing yet Hamilton was part of the BLM protests right next to thousands of protests, and some other drivers were pictured in St. Tropez where it was rammed with people.

Seems like massive overkill all this protection, we’ve had no major spikes in the areas where there were protests, block party, beaches, shopping areas, etc but this farce continues.

Basics
Basics
5 years ago
Reply to  skipper

Deaf veiwers can no longer follow their sport. As they trip over their own virtue signalling it is good to mention.

matt
matt
5 years ago
Reply to  Basics

Sigh. Educate yourself.

T. Prince
5 years ago
Reply to  matt

He/it can’t. He/it’s not back to small school until at least September

matt
matt
5 years ago
Reply to  T. Prince

August. It’s in Scotland.

T. Prince
5 years ago
Reply to  matt

Is GrantM (M for moron) really Nicola of Sturgeon?! Now it’s/he’s all beginning to make sense!

matt
matt
5 years ago
Reply to  T. Prince

I think he works for her, at least.

Nobody2021
5 years ago
Reply to  matt

You’re unlikely to get a response. The sole purpose of it’s existence is to do its masters bidding.

Basics
Basics
5 years ago
Reply to  Nobody2021

I’m not sure if it is flattery to be offered up such a cunningly poor troll. It knows all the woke triggers but assembles them in such a stickle brick kind of way.

If it was smooth I would take it as a good sign the discussions are causing thought.

matt
matt
5 years ago
Reply to  Basics

I demand a better class of troll. This one’s broken.

skipper
skipper
5 years ago
Reply to  Basics

I don’t think you mean racism, I think you anti-racism.

The problem is that Sky are using this as PR. I think I can say that we on here are all anti-racism, but the problem we have is that at the moment to be anti-racism means you have to support Black Lives Matter which is a Marxist political group who has hijack anti-racism but their other views such as anti-Semitism is is offensive, and things like defund the Police do not hold up to scrutiny.

What needs to happen and I’ve said this to SKY is that a new neutral non-political campaign needs starting possible called “Anti-Racism Matters”. This would then allow a more inclusive support of Anti-Racism, that is based on your political designation and wouldn’t divide as it does at the mo by trying to make white people ashamed of things that happened by previous generations that we had no control over.

I think this would be a great thing to happen to bring all races together in a combined effort!

skipper
skipper
5 years ago
Reply to  skipper

I should also say that rather than just throwing the racism name out there, you should be grateful to be on such a great site where the headline is just not read and reacted on. There is a lot a great members on this site who actually research what they are posting about and provide the evidence for it by linking to it.

I thank all the people on here for being so enlightened, and Toby for providing this site that brings some sanity during this period of madness.

Basics
Basics
5 years ago
Reply to  Basics

Eh?

OKUK
OKUK
5 years ago
Reply to  Basics

Grant M probably just another of the agent provocateurs who pop here, whose main target is Toby.

matt
matt
5 years ago
Reply to  OKUK

He’s really, really bad at it.

Winston Smith
Winston Smith
5 years ago
Reply to  Basics

Hello GrantM, I’ve missed you, I’ve spent all day in the pub with my missus and we aren’t dead yet, hic!

We are going on a crawl tomorrow, see you in hell.

👍🏻