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One story dominates the news and it isn’t “English Tourism Week“, which started today. The Prime Minister’s efforts to draw a line under the Dominic Cummings’ affair yesterday by declaring he had done nothing wrong and he was standing by him were not successful. If anything, they just emboldened his chief advisor’s critics. If they could now force Boris to do a U-turn they would succeed in weakening him as well as burying Dom. The airwaves this morning were dominated by the same coalition of politicians and commentators that supported the Remain side in the EU Referendum, sniffing an opportunity to take revenge on their two greatest foes.
This afternoon at 4.30pm Cummings took the unusual step of holding a press conference in the Downing Street rose garden, beginning with him reading a lengthy statement explaining why his behaviour was “reasonable” in the circumstances. Turns out, he didn’t make a second visit to his parents’ farm in Durham; rather, he remained there for two weeks while he, his wife and his four year-old son battled with illness. He wasn’t staying in the same household as his parents, or his sister, but a separate cottage on the family farm, and he didn’t come within two metres of any members of the public. His reason for driving to Barnard Castle was to see if he was fit enough to make the longer drive to London; it wasn’t for sightseeing purposes. As far as he was concerned, his behaviour was “reasonable” because he was doing whatever was necessary to protect his child.
Will this be enough to save him?
According to some lockdown zealots, Boris’s refusal to throw Cummings under a bus will “cost lives”. That was what Stephen Reicher, Professor of Social Psychology at the University of St Andrews and a member of the Scientific Pandemic Influenza Group on Behaviours (SPI-B), a sub-group of the Strategic Advisory Group for Emergencies (SAGE), told Sky News. “More people are going to die” because Cummings is still in post, he said.
One Cabinet source told the Telegraph: “The discussion among Cabinet ministers at the moment is that this will cost lives. People will look at this and decide that if Dom can ignore the rules so can they, and the consequence of that will be that people get infected who would have otherwise stayed at home. This has massively undermined the lockdown message.”
For lockdown sceptics, of course, that’s all the more reason to applaud the Prime Minister for standing by Cummings.
“Boris has put his credibility and the Government’s credibility on the line by sticking up for Dom,” a senior Tory source told the Telegraph. “How can we tell people they must abide by the lockdown now? The lockdown is effectively over because this makes it unenforceable.”
We can but hope.
My view is that Cummings’s behaviour complied with the letter, if not the spirit, of the rules. I don’t think he should be punished for this, not least because that will confirm people’s mistaken view that travelling across the country to visit their relatives will “cost lives”. It will embolden the finger-waggers and tell-tales, encouraging them to inform on other miscreants and probably prolong the lockdown – and that is what will cost lives, as we sceptics know only too well. I’m thinking of the recent interview on ABC News with some doctors in Northern California saying the rise in suicides since the state was shutdown on March 19th has killed more people than the virus. The same is true of Tennessee and no doubt other US states too. A report compiled by Just Facts at the beginning of the month estimated that anxiety alone will result in at least seven times the loss of life than can possibly be prevented by the shutdowns. Seven times was the low end. The high end was 90 times.
But in the grander scheme of things, it’s difficult to have much sympathy for Cummings. As more than one reader has pointed out, he was Boris’s chief adviser when the Prime Minister embraced what may well turn out to be the most damaging and costly policy in British history. That was confirmed by Cummings in the Downing Street rose garden this afternoon. “The truth is, I’d argued for lockdowns,” he said. “I did not oppose the policy.”
Perhaps the Government’s initial decision to place the country under lockdown is understandable, given the apocalyptic predictions it was being presented with by Professor Neil Ferguson and others, talking about “the science”. But given the weight of later evidence, strongly implying that that Ferguson’s doomsday predictions were exaggerated, not to have immediately eased the lockdown is unforgivable. Cummings has to accept some of the responsibility for that.
The mastermind of Brexit once talked, very persuasively, of “taking back control” from a centre-left, technocratic elite whose policies (such as the creation of the single currency) have wreaked great damage in Europe. In the UK, the same people have presided over a massive transfer of power from the British Parliament to unelected officials in Brussels and elsewhere, all in the name of “progress”. Cummings gave many people hope, including me, that this trend would be reversed, and the success of the Conservatives at the last General Election seemed to confirm that faith. Yet the lockdown policy has handed these same ham-fisted “experts” and bureaucrats unparalleled power and allowed them to do more harm on a grander scale than ever before. Our civil rights have been suspended, Parliament has effectively been mothballed and freeborn Englishmen have been treated with the same arrogant contempt as always. In short, Cummings has not “taken back control” from the metropolitan, liberal elite. Over the last two months, he has handed back control to them.
Lockdown Blowback in Bangladesh
I got an email this morning from a donor, explaining the catastrophic impact of the lockdown on his business and the knock-on effect for his migrant workers and their families:
I am by no means the first to call attention to the millions who will die in poorer countries because of our lockdown and our obsession with a relatively small death count here at home. I have first-hand knowledge of this knock-on effect. I employ a number of Bangladeshi workers in a fish-trading business in the Maldives. Their salaries sustain large families back home. Dim-witted policies like inbound quarantine have now extended the block on tourist travel to the Maldives, so there is no one to eat our fish.
I am trying to keep the Bangladeshi boys on even with no business coming in, but our cash flow forecast says we will run out of cash at the end of July. The situation is made worse by their relatives back home who work in garment factories having been laid off because big buyers like Top Shop and Next have stopped placing orders. These families will come very close to starvation and disease will start to cull the least strong. The relatively minor risk of getting an illness which most people recover from quite quickly pales into insignificance beside the massive knock-on effects the lockdown policy creates. And I speak as an 80 year-old who is firmly in the so-called high-risk category.
A Thunderer from Brendan O’Neill in Spiked

There’s a humdinger of a column by Brendan O’Neill in Spiked today. He detects a growing disconnect between the fealty people pay to lockdown orthodoxy when asked about it by pollsters or journalists doing vox pops and their actual behaviour, in which they regularly flout the rules.
The disconnect between public backing for the lockdown and (anonymous) public breaking of the lockdown is fascinating. It suggests there is a significant minority of what we might call shy libertines out there – people who have been exercising their freedom in defiance of the strict rules but who are shy about saying so. They live part of their life outside the lockdown, but they tell pollsters the lockdown is great and must continue.
He argues that we need to empower these shy libertines so they feel more confident about challenging Covid orthodoxy:
Covid conformism must be confronted. In their echo chambers, where they’re all trying to outdo each other in their levels of commitment to smashing Covid, the political and media elites have become increasingly blinkered, dogmatic and intolerant on everything related to COVID-19. The lack of relaxed, freely stated opposition to their lockdown mania means they become madder and madder in their commitment to it. The corrosion of freedom of thought in relation to COVID-19 has deadly consequences, because it means the lockdown endures – nine weeks now – when many people know in their heart of hearts that it is wrong and deeply damaging to the future of this country.
Worth reading in full.
A Contrary Point of View
I get surprisingly few emails from defenders of the lockdown. But I do get the occasional one, such as this one from a former epidemiologist who posts as djaustin in the comment threads:
Whether people choose to accept it or not, cases were doubling at the time of lockdown every three days and deaths every two (my comment under Djaustin has the numbers for you). Whilst models might have predicted the four horsemen were soon to arrive, even simple extrapolations showed that we were in a bad place and that healthcare would be swamped within a couple of weeks. Forget the 500k deaths, micro Simulation models etc… Robust decisions are insensitive to assumptions. This point has been lost in the noise. Early in an epidemic all one can know is the rate of doubling.
As for “Does the lockdown work?”, well there is ample evidence on the way DOWN that the harder the lockdown, the shorter the time to halve cases and deaths. Spain is declining faster than Italy and UK, which are in turn declining faster than Sweden. These are the facts. The debate is really what level of infection can reasonably be sustained? How low should cases fall before we adopt the (probably fortuitous) Sweden experience of static population burn (albeit at a much slower rate than they expected). Should eradication of this new pathogen be a goal?
I’m a mathematician, scientist, former epidemiologist, and now work on COVID-19 new treatments. I generally disagree with your political stance and the incumbent Government. However, with regards to the scientific method and scepticism, I agree that one should be sceptical. I believe that when the data is analysed carefully (which I have done since mid-March), there is evidence that lockdown has had some impact, both on peak and rate of decline. The questions regarding cost, ethics, liberties and so on are valid, but the science is clear.
We currently have approximately 60k excess deaths, more than any bad influenza year from 2010-19. These excess deaths are nicely correlated with COVID-19 deaths In timing and magnitude, and will soon be back to weekly baseline. The bigger questions, which I think your site should ask, are why we were not encouraged to act more responsibly and earlier (as in Germany). Clearly this has given Germany more options on the way down.
A Good Reason For Not Sending Your Child Back to School?
I got an email from a grandpa, worried that his granddaughter, who’s in Reception, won’t be returning to school on June 1st:
Had an interesting conversation with my daughter on Zoom last night. She’s not sending her daughter back to school. It’s nothing to do with the risk of catching Covid which she fully accepts is negligible.
No, she doesn’t want her daughter to be taught in an atmosphere of “silly” social distancing which she thinks will stop her daughter playing with her mates properly.
She also doesn’t want her being taught by teachers wearing masks and rubber gloves which she believes will scare the children.
Finally, she doesn’t want her to suffer the indignity of being sent home because she has had an unexpected “accident”.
She says she’s going to wait until September when she hope things have calmed down and got a bit more sensible.
What sort of world are we living in?
It’s Worse in Scotland
I get quite a few emails from readers telling me that as bad as things are in England, they’re worse in Scotland under Kim Sturge-on. This one, from a donor, is typical:
In Scotland, the situation for anyone who is pro-free enterprise is even worse than in England as our First Minister makes unchallenged assertions to UK network journalists who are not well-briefed enough to respond. Meanwhile, our domestic institutions are starting to resemble a one-party state. You will no doubt have seen the story in the Times today about STV publishing videos of children praising our glorious Nicola. Scotland is so poisoned that even a pandemic has constitutional overtones. But the point about the lockdown is the same as for the rest of the UK. It is an irrational and catastrophic reaction that has destroyed lives in ways more insidious than the virus itself.
Some Hope For Parents of Newborns
A reader has got in touch who is friends with a registrar in her county with news of a possible loophole to get your newborn registered (I flagged up this problem yesterday):
It is indeed true that birth registrations have been on hold. But apparently parents can demand registration by a special dispensation. Most people don’t know about this and councils haven’t publicised it.
Usually births, marriages and deaths have to be registered in person. Procedures have been in place to register deaths, but there is now a backlog of births. My friend estimates about 2000 in our county alone.
Postcard From Sri Lanka

A few weeks ago we published a “Poscard From Spain” by a reader and today I’m publishing a “Postcard from Sri Lanka” by another. This one is from Omar Kahn, a global consultant who’s been locked down in the country the the past nine weeks. Here’s a taste of the Sri Lankian authorities’ response:
At the time of the curfew, Lanka had 66 cases of Covid-19, with seven fatalities. One month on, post curfew, there have been 271 cases and… wait for it… seven fatalities! But rather than throwing a success party, the authorities decided to double down, even though it was now clear that the healthcare system wasn’t being overwhelmed and that the fatality needle hadn’t budged. No one is quite sure why the most draconian option was chosen and then manically sustained, except that we all mistakenly thought that this was an “equal opportunity” virus, and it’s not. The fatality numbers testify to that, and some regions are relatively far less scathed than others, which clearly hasn’t always been down to the brilliance of their response. But as per all the model-spinners and prognosticators, it was only a matter of time before things exploded here. As of today, the fatalities up to nine, and we have been curfewed longer than Wuhan was economically shut down.
Worth reading in full.
Round-Up
And on to the round-up of all the stories I’ve noticed, or which have been been brought to my attention, in the last 24 hours:
- ‘How scared should we be?‘ – Decent piece by the Nick Triggle, the BBC’s Health Correspondent, on the need to balance risk as we emerge from lockdown
- ‘Coronavirus data prove Australia is in Asia‘ – Professor Ramesh Thakur becomes a “graphodisiac” to prove lockdowns don’t work
- ‘A short guide to justifying re-lockdown‘ – Heather Mac Donald in the Spectator USA on how those who forecast doom after Georgia eased its lockdown last month have been proved wrong
- ‘Universities are pressing the self-destruct button‘ – Joanna Williams in Spiked on the perfect storm facing Britain’s universities and their failure to do anything about it
- ‘Rand Paul Confronts Dr. Fauci to His Face, Exposes Truth About Modeling‘ – Clash between the libertarian and the public health panjandrum. Still on YouTube, remarkably
- ‘An Orgy of Plague Death, Deferred‘ – Noah Rothman in Commentary on the fact that the governors of Georgia and Florida got it right – deaths haven’t increased since they eased their lockdowns last month
- ‘Native American casinos roll the dice on reopening‘ – Article in the Times about Native American casinos reopening
- ‘Combat and team sports receive the go-ahead for full-contact training‘ – The Telegraph reveals the Premier League has been given the green light to resume full-contact training. Does this mean we can all abandon the two-metre rule?
- ‘WA Premier Mark McGowan announces school attendance will become compulsory from Monday‘ – The Premier of Western Australia has declared that school attendance is now compulsory. Can Education Secretary Gavin Williamson take a leaf out of his book?
- ‘Covid-19 could hasten rise of the robots as companies seek to cut expensive labour costs‘ – No surprise there
- ‘Lockdown restrictions to be eased, allowing more social contact and shops to reopen‘ – Telegraph reports Boris Johnson is planning to reveal we’re doing well enough to move to “phase two” of the lockdown easing, but those plans may have been derailed by Cummings-gate
- ‘Abe Declares End to Japan Emergency And Seeks to Boost Economy‘ – The Prime Minister of Japan is ending the lockdown, according to Bloomberg
- ‘Dreaming of a Visit to Japan? The Government Might Pay for Half of Your Trip to Jumpstart Tourism‘ – And thanks to the above news, there’s all the more reason to take advantage of this offer
- ‘My plan for reopening Wetherspoon pubs‘ – The redoubtable Tim Martin is champing at the bit to reopen his pubs. More power to his elbow
- ‘Eleven reasons why COVID-19 won’t usher in a socialist Britain‘ – Tim Walsh delivers the
goodbad news in the Telegraph. Will come as a disappointment to my left-wing readers - ‘Closures looming over Pizza Express‘ – Another beloved high street chain about to go to the wall, says the Times
Theme Tune Suggestions
Some more suggestions for theme songs from readers: “Libera Nos (Deliver Us)” by The Sixteen, “Keep Your Distance” by Richard Thompson, and, for Dom, “Where do you go to my Lovely?” by Peter Sarstedt and “Six Days on the Road” by Dave Dudley.
Small Businesses That Have Reopened
Last week, Lockdown Sceptics launched a searchable directory of open businesses across the UK. The idea is to celebrate those retail and hospitality businesses that have reopened, as well as help people find out what has opened in their area. But we need your help to build it, so we’ve created a form you can fill out to tell us about those businesses that have opened near you. Please visit the page and let us know about those brave folk who are doing their bit to get our country back on its feet.
And try to avoid getting too irritated by the over-the-top social distancing procedures some retailers are putting in place. One reader has complained about the absurdly elaborate rules her local garden centre has imposed, including:
- Please have a shopping list ready before entry, we cannot allow for prolonged visits and wandering.
- If we suspect any illness, we have the right to refuse entry.
- Do not touch any products that you are not purchasing.
- When at the tills, wait to be called forward by a cashier. Once called, push your trolley into the taped area in front of the till. Then stand in the taped waiting box whilst the cashier stands your items. You will then be called forward to pay once the cashier is safely behind their screen.
- CARD PAYMENTS ONLY!
- Vacate the exit area immediately.
On the plus side, the same reader says other shops in her neighbourhood are being more reasonable:
A local grocer has a simple sign outside his shop saying: ‘Only five people at a time’. (It’s not a big shop – I can’t remember ever seeing more than five people in there at any one time.)
Shameless Begging Bit
Thanks as always to those of you who made a donation in the last 24 hours to pay for the upkeep of this site. It still takes me about nine hours a day, what with doing these updates, moderating your comments and commissioning original material. And my journalist helpers have gone! If you feel like donating, however small, please click here. And if you want to flag up any stories or links I should include in tomorrow’s update, email me here.
And Finally…

This meme has been doing the rounds for a while, but I thought it particularly appropriate today after watching the press pack hound Dominic Cummings and whip up public anger against him. I know what it’s like to be pursued by an outrage mob and it aint pretty. Whatever you think of the rights and wrongs of the matter, no one deserves this.
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SPECIAL ANNOUNCEMENT FROM THE BBC TO THE NATION – TIME TO COME OUT FROM UNDER YOUR BED COVERS, WASH YOUR WEE STAINED BED MATTRESSES AND LEAVE THE HOUSE SUBTITLE OF ANNOUNCEMENT: HOW TO UNDERSTAND AND MOVE ON FROM THE LAST NINE WEEKS IF YOUR INTELLECTUALLY CHALLENGED https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52758024 (thanks to an earlier sceptic who spotted this gem). Remember children there is always risk in leaving your house…A tree might fall on you, you might choke on your tongue, you might be abducted by an alien, and god forbid, you might even come across a politician with a backbone… Remember: “Deaths among under-65s with no illnesses are “remarkably uncommon” However, rather than focusing on those most at risk from the outset (like care home residents), lets close down the entire country instead. “During the pandemic so far three under 15s have died. That compares to around 50 killed in road accidents every year”. However, if you are a left-wing teacher or council, please ignore this fact as your soft headed anyway. “What is remarkable about coronavirus is that if we are infected our chances of dying seems to mirror our chance of dying anyway over the next… Read more »
LOL Excellent! Yesterday there were quite a few barbeques in my area and the sound of people having fun and children playing was so welcome. These past couple of months have been terrible and Im desperate for us to get back to OUR normal not globalists idea of new normal. As for what Cummings did or didn’t do frankly I’m past caring. MSM are a curse at the best of times now they’re like a pack of feral jackals!
Had a superb bbq with my twin brother and fam on Sunday night. They stayed over and we took a walk down on beach by Peacehaven. Life is too short to stay under LD, so get busy living, or get busy dying
It is time everyone under 60, I am 73, as told to get on with their lives.
It’s time EVERYONE , no matter what age they are, got on with their lives
Hey I’m over 60 and I’d like to be able to get on with my life!
Whichever way Sceptics may have responded to the misdemeanours of Cummings – who for what it’s worth came across as a reasonable enough bloke to me earlier – we should all celebrate the key point:
I don’t really believe he was originally pro-lockdown either, and it wouldn’t surprise me if he still isn’t.
That BBC piece is by Nick Triggle. He’s done a few decent ones. Compared to all politicians and almost all mainstream journalists and other public figures, he deserves a medal.
Yes, I posted a link to that on here earlier. Basically says if its your time to go it doesn’t matter if you have Covid19 or not.
It’s all been utter madness!
If he isn’t and/or wasn’t pro-lockdown he should come out and say so. With luck it would help get Brexit and Tory supporters against the lockdown entirely, that frees about half the country from the bureaucratic treason of the lockdown nanny-state, then we just need a prominent remainer to come forth too and we can have the rest of the country going anti-lockdown too.
Well I’ve seen two pieces of evidence on it referred to here – that he was originally pro-herd immunity (months before) and that he himself stated that he supported lockdown when it was brought in.
Pretty clear that he was part of the government group that panicked in March and switched away from the rational Swedish-style policy and into the panic policy of lockdown, to our immense cost.
I suspect David Starkey is correct in his suggestion that this was motivated by political fear of being blamed for damage to the NHS, and that has Cummings written all over it.
So you can dream of a world in which Cummings was not responsible (with others) for one of the greatest governmental acts of incompetence in history, or you can face up to reality and assess Cummings;competence more accurately. He’s doubtless clever, but he’s manifestly neither wise nor judicious.
The lockdown hasn’t been enforceable for a couple of weeks! Even before then I broke it often enough.
This is the thing… MSM have highlighted the things you cannot do, still do, pious pricks. It’s fucking nonsense, you can go where you want to now, as often as you want. Makes no difference to me as I always did
Well he should have said so at the time and said so yesterday.
I am confused at Toby backing him as Cummings sat in on the SAGE committee meetings that advised the government to ramp up the threat of the virus, which they did with their terrorising adverts on TV and in the propaganda press.
https://www.ukcolumn.org/article/covid-coercion-boris-johnsons-psychological-attack-uk-public
And we were left with a paranoid population and terrified children. So its ok for him to have a hand in that but not for him to have a taste of his own medicine?
I call it karma myself.
CORONAVIRUS BILL
COSTS
HEALTH
Anxiety, depression, suicide, unnecessary deaths of thousands of citizens as a result of the NHS being effectively closed to them.
SOCIAL
Child abuse, domestic abuse, social isolation, family breakdown, loss of community cohesion, infantilization of the population, spiritual decline.
LEGAL
Loss of civil liberties, loss of freedom of speech, terrrorisation of the population, distrust of parliament, the police and judiciary, civil unrest.
ECONOMIC
Unemployment, loss of businesses, loss of income and savings, loss of homes, poverty.
Over one trillion pounds (£1,000,000,000,000) in government debt.
BENEFITS
NONE
“According to the State it may be necessary to go in an out of various levels of the regime from time to time, depending on the State’s threat assessment. This is based on scientific research bought and paid for by pharmaceutical corporations and private foundations including GlaxoSmithKline (Wellcome Trust).”
GSK has a base in….Barnard Castle. Why was Cummings there?
It’s all very well your contributor djaustin saying the figures coming out from China were scary, but I remember coming back to London on March 19, with the intention of catching the bug as soon as possible, and even then it was obvious from the Wuhan data that the greatest fatalities were among the elderly and the mortally ill. I remember having a conversation with my brother, an engineer, a day or so before the lockdown. We both reckoned the government should crunch the weekly numbers and post an online questionnaire, in which you put your age, health conditions etc, and it comes up with a score from which you see how high risk you are in the light of current knowledge. People with a score over X could be recommended to self isolate, so as not to overwhelm the NHS. The questionnaire could have been updated each week as we learned more about the virus, and as hospital beds became free. Who knows, if people with an enormous BMI found they were recommended to stay behind closed doors it might even have prompted them to do something about it. I’m looking at you, Boris. Anyway they didn’t do this… Read more »
I am shocked that Mr Young thinks it may have been the right decision to “lock down” but we should have lifted it when data became clearer. Where is the cost benefit analysis that could justify taking such a decision?
Lockdowns MAY “work” up to a point for some countries, but the only justification possible is to take the pressure off the health service. We were told it was about flattening the curve and that was done, but we’re still here, even with “easing” the intention is to carry on with this insanity forever so that no-one has to die, ever (on their watch) (except all the people whose lives will be shorter and less pleasant because the huge screw up they have made, but they are harder to count). Flattening the curve and protecting the NHS was a lie, or maybe it was truth but then the government found they rather liked the new arrangement and decided to carry on, or they are crapping themselves because they have created a beast they can’t control.
If they wanted to tame the beast, they’d relax the 2m idiocy and they wouldn’t have decided to introduce a nonsensical quarantine rule 3 months after the event. Clearly they’re not interested in controlling the beast. The thing is to ask why not?
I suspect you are right. I think they like the power and the feeling they are doing something historically important like saving us from coronavirus. I think it’s hard to overestimate the role of vanity in the actions of the powerful.
Greetings, dear brothers and sisters in sanity. Just sounding off a bit today from Gulag Wales, which us worse than Scotland, believe me (although I know that’s difficult). It’s not about dear Dominic. I really don’t care about him one way or the other. But… One of the worst things the universal incarceration has done to me is to reveal my capacity for hatred. Sheer gut-wrenching, soul-twisting, heart-stopping, blinding , roaring, murderous hatred. I could wound. I could hack. I could kill. I could hang somebody from a lamp post. I could parade somebody’s head on a pike. I could be Saint-Just, Robespierre and several guillotine operators, combined. Compared with the hatred I feel now for everyone involved in the present oppression, any former hatreds I thought I felt turn out to have been mere minor irritations. Oddly enough, I don’t feel the hatred most strongly when listening to the gibberings from the government or media monkey cages, or when zombies swerve to avoid me in the street, or even when I see one of those nauseating NHS rain-grovel-bows, or hear the claptrapping of the assembled morons. It’s when I go past one of the innumerable car parks that have been blocked… Read more »
Beautifully put Annie, I share your pain, and your hatred, frankly. What irks me is, here in Dublin, there are outdoor exercise machines in the middle of outdoor parks, and they are cordoned off with tape like some sort of permanent crime scene. But I must admit that the robotic zombies and busy bodies annoy and sicken me the most. The world really has been taken over by mindless, joyless, prying, obsessive compulsive hypochondriacs. This period has laid us all so low, sometimes I just can’t believe my eyes and ears. Keep up whatever fight you can muster and the Overton window will shift inch by inch.
Thanks for that!
Taping off exercise machines … well, it all fits in. Sigh.
Its far worse in my area. After the taping off didn’t work, they erected large barriers around it but even that’s not working anymore as those who want to use the bars for excercising have resorted to climbing over them.
That’s the spirit.
This might (initially) give you some cheer:
Unfortunately it didn’t take long for the local council to act:
https://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/car-park-barriers-vandalised-at-overstrand-1-6669347
Wonder if the police have acted on that.
Extra exercise!
It is. One has to admire the determination of those who want to use those bars for exercise.
Hypochondriacs who clearly haven’t seen the news that the virus is killed very quickly in bright sunlight.
Have to agree, locking the car parks is disgraceful. But for me, it’s the locking of the children’s play areas. Everytime we go past one, one of my three young children will say, disappointingly, “is the play area still closed? Will the coronavirus be gone soon daddy and can they then open the park?“ drives me insane! It’s a kids’ park for god’s sake! The cruelty is ridiculous!
Yet another here that shares your burgeoning hatred Annie. Your feelings and their severity are completely understandable.
On the matter of Cummings and his lockdown trips, I disagree with Toby. The only offence I have ever been charged with in the 67 years of my life is ‘Illegal use of a motorway hard shoulder’ (ironic that they have all been turned into fourth lanes now – do you think I could claim my fine back?). By his own admission DC has been complicit in the implementation and continuance of this lockdown, which is a crime against humanity and crimes against humanity should always be punished. It is unfortunate that our society has become so dystopian, that it is his car journeys that are considered the crime and not his part in the lockdown. It is an expression of my own anger and hatred that makes me wish to see him punished for anything at all, I don’t care what – did anyone see him drive on the hard shoulder during his journey? That would be treated with more seriousness than his heinous crime of supporting and perpetuating lockdown.
Don’t be ashamed of yourself, social pressure is a really big thing, it’s hard to be a lone warrior. I’m just trying to chat to people, bright and breezy, very conversational, ‘gosh this is bonkers isn’t, ha ha ha, we’ve gone mad!’ and when they say ‘what do you mean?’ I cheerily drop a little subversive bomb, ‘Well mass unemployment and the worst recession in three hundred years is a bit of a worry!’ and on I go.
I really really really hear you on the joylessness, and the meanness, particularly to kids. I have honestly felt hate too. But come the reckoning, it’s those people who will feel ashamed, as we are going to turn this around, and it’ll become their embarrassment. It’ll be like the war, where everyone denied they were ever a member of the Nazi party. And look what happened there!
This must NEVER happen again, save your strength for that battle, as we’re going to need to write lots of letters, and turn up to meetings, and MP surgeries, and write to newspapers, and go to rallies, and generally keep a watch so that we are never ever governed by social media panic ever again.
You are so right.
I now know the truth of the saying that the price of liberty is eternal vigilance.
Exactly, and what upsets me is were weren’t even kind! I don’t want to be in a society like that, empty virtue signalling and no kindness. At least you CARE, that matters at lot, particularly right now.
Anger is a Gift!
Well put Annie. With you in spirit. This was manna from heaven for the jobsworths. No sense in virtually any of these restrictions, but it’s fun to make other peoples’ lives miserable. I wonder what it must have been like to be in the Civil War. In principal I would have been on the side of Parliament except Puritans were going to make life so bloody miserable for everyone. No wonder they wanted Charles mark two back. Closed the bloody theatres for godsake! (Oh hang on, they’ve closed them today.)
Sorry, spelt ‘principle’ wrong. Long day in the sunshine with ale
Sounds as much fun as Soviet Russia.
Or North Korea.
Is it a coincidence that those greenest to enforce the lockdown tend to be more left-wing??
Annie, I agree with every word of your post.
Annie
Excellent and an all too familiar feeling. NT in England have finally lifted the car park closures. However, the new NT magazine (member only for car parks, the irony) has the usual welcome from the Director General who declares her allegiance to the cause by stating ” …the only way we will beat this virus is if we all make a contribution by staying indoors…and not travelling”. Maybe she sits on SAGE and is some expert modelling epidemiologist? Since she mentions a contribution I have now removed mine by cancelling my membership.
I cancelled mine when they colluded with farmers to cull badgers for no good scientific reason. Gave the money to the RSPB instead.
Hello Annie,
I live in coastal Wales and I enjoy all the beautiful places you mention by parking a short way away and walking in to the beach, the woods, the river, wherever. I noticed yesterday at my favourite beach that the coast path north had a sign up saying the path was closed but no barrier. In fact the notice looked like a planning application, so I thought the farmer was wanting to convert his barn or something. Today I walked along an estuary with no banning notices or other signs. It has been bliss to go to these places sans packs of tourists and enjoy seeing more birds than usual – and less dog poo.
Hi Annie,
it is a relief to know that I’m not the only one gnashing my teeth rather than cheering the NHS. However, I have reliable information that the real reason a lot of National Trust sites are closed is that they cannot make enough income to pay the staff, and they need a minimum number of staff to protect the historic sites etc. (even apparently wild areas need some supervision if dog walkers et. al are allowed in) let alone police the social distancing malarky they would be demanded to impose on their visitors. Almost the entire National Trust have been furloughed. None of the relief measures given to buisinesses that make their money from events, hospitality and destinations are available to charities who do likewise, so that was their only option.
I’m a great fan of this site which has helped keep me sane in the last couple of months.
But any sympathy for Cummings is completely misplaced.
He’s in a leadership role in this country – arguably as important than the Prime Minister, whose strings he seems to pull. Through shared responsibility, Cummings’ fingerprints cover the government’s policy of terrorising the public and keeping us imprisoned and in our houses.
Yet he ignores the rules he himself, most egregiously with his 30 mile day trip to the beauty spot. Anyone who believes his claptrap about checking his eyesight will also be leaving leprechauns, fairies and all manner of other fantasies.
Millions and millions of British citizens would not have done what Cummings did because they dutifully obeyed the government. They have every right to be furious and contemptuous of him and with the supplicant Prime Minister.
Johnson is proving to be a buffoon of a leader and the longer he sticks with Cummings, the deeper will be his infamy.
Spot on we are being led by Janas
Deep enough already given HS2, Huawei (OK, now under review again), Net Zero and, most appallingly of all, the nuclear-war level disaster of Lockdown!
Lockdown is just the precursor to Net Zero.
And the rubber boats that keep coming from France. We’ve all been mugged………..
I absolutley agree with you Moly. I too have been following this site since the begining as a source of interesting and informative material that I otherwise wouldn’t have seen and which has enabled me to form my own opinions. I have defended the site from friends who have no time for Mr Young and friends on that basis.
For me this isn’t political. I was an ardent Remainer and have never voted for the Conservative Party in my life. Nor Labour very often either as never a strong party here. However I simply believed that a prolonged and stringent lockdown would cause more damage than the disease itself and I still do.
Mr Cummings actions were unacceptable and in my view not reasonable given the efforts made by everyone else to struggle on and comply with the guidance. The excuse for the Barnard Castle trip is laughable and I think he should go. I believe the defence and support by Toby of Mr Cummings’ actions is misplaced on this site and would have been better expressed elsewhere.
Barnard Castle is home to a facility of GlaxoSmithKline.
https://uk.gsk.com/en-gb/about-us/uk-locations/barnard-castle/
Make of that what you will.
And there it is…..thank you Simon
If that is the reason he visited, what possible reason would he have for not just saying so (or, if commercially sensitive, “a meeting on government business”).
https://www.gsk.com/en-gb/media/press-releases/sanofi-and-gsk-to-join-forces-in-unprecedented-vaccine-collaboration-to-fight-covid-19/
Statement issued two days after Cummings’ visit.
You need to start joining some dots. Start with the UN and work down.
I’m exactly the same as you, and it’s not about splitting hairs about the letter of the law, it’s what this has done to people, a very very real human cost. Lots of vulnerable kids have no benevolent grandparents, let alone ones who have their own bloomin’ estate. Most of all it indicates he knows lockdown was not needed, but inflicted it on the rest of us just the same. Argued for it in fact. I wish Toby would cut him loose, I don’t give a stuff about Brexit (and neither does Mr Cummings or Boris, they just went with it because it’s popular, same as lockdown).
Agree. Boris is a weak man who is desperate to be popular. Such people are very easy to manipulate.
I find it amusing that people think he’s still ‘anti metropolitan liberal elite’ – he went from his leafy London home to his dad’s ESTATE, and stayed in ‘one of the cottages’. As for him slouching out of number 10 in his joggers, what is wrong with the man, he might as well have just stuck up two fingers on the door step, and he’s fooling no one with his Top Man attire. He just oozes contempt. I agree with Toby that the baying mob is vile and hypocritical (they don’t care he broke lockdown any more than he does) but I still don’t get what is to support about him (unless we’re just being canny and can see the noise is just a distraction from attacking the actual lockdown). What upsets me is the carnage lockdown is inflicting on ordinary people, missed cancer treatment, domestic violence, child abuse, lost jobs, bankruptcy, suicide, mental illness – those things are not from a lack of ‘common sense’. And if at the beginning we were all supposed to exercise our common sense, why did all the doom laden adverts tell us to do the opposite, was Sheila in Shepton Mallet meant to… Read more »
I’m with you, Annie. What we’re doing is inhuman and cruel … unbelievably ridiculous and unnecessary.
The media were an absolute disgrace tonight at the press conference. Not a single question about the lockdown. The media have truly lost the plot – utter scum.
At least they have been consistent in their scum like behaviour over the last couple of months.
Never forgive them, never forget
i feel like a kid on a long car journey asking my dad “are we there yet?”.
Ah, so you were the 4-year-old! ;-}
are we there yet?
50p to the first one to spot Blackpool Tower.
Eye spy?
Just don’t tell us you need a wee, they’ve shut all the public toilets.
As a remainer I can say I’d love to see Cummings and Boris in deep trouble. But not for this whole “lockdown violation” “scandal”. What I would like to see instead of Boris and Cummings being scapegoated, is a government admission that lockdown was wrong and a full pardon and reimbursement of fines for anyone else who heroically violated the unconstituional lockdown. Right now, even as a remainer, I’m on Boris and Cummings’ side. Because however awful Brexit may be, we need to unite against the evils of lockdown and as far as I’m concerned there should be a truce between both the fairly equally matched sides of the referendum until the tragedy of anthropogenic lockdown is over and guarantees are in place that it can never happen again. Only with that completed would I possibly consider returning to the increasingly irrelevant leave-remain debate. Given I voted pro-EU because I thought the EU would protect us from whitehall authoritarians, and we’re still in the transition period and under the EU courts and yet they haven’t blocked lockdown so haven’t been doing the job I expected of them, I don’t really care much for remain any more.
The ‘contrary point of view’… Classic case of tunnel vision stupidity. The arrogance is breathtaking.
Now please model the number of deaths and the destruction that the lockdown has and will cause?
How about following THAT science? Of course he can’t or won’t.
Sorry Mr djaustin but those are not the facts or the science. Do you have some numbers and graphs to show that? The fact is that there is no discernible relationship between social distancing being observed and the shape of the curve or when deaths slow down or peak. See https://conservativewoman.co.uk/social-distancing-the-case-against/. In Genoa for instance there are 24 days between social distancing beginning and the infection curve starting to slow down. That’s almost a month of exponential growth in infections while people are social distancing. And elsewhere the numbers are all different. In Belarus – assuming the figures are remotely accurate – there is little social distancing and no catastrophic contagion. These, Mr djaustin, are the facts. Not your vague claims about cases dropping off.
Certainly.
UK data for COVID19 incidence of new cases and deaths 9 days apart at lockdown:
14 March 149 cases, 15 deaths
23 March 967 cases, 264 deaths
Cases doubling time = 3.3 days from 9(days) x log(2)/(log(967/149)
Deaths doubling time = 2.2 days.
You don’t need a sophisticated model, just an understanding of logarithms
Thanks. I don’t doubt there was an exponential growth phase, though I’m confused by your figures. On 23 March there were well under 200 deaths in hospitals in England.
I was asking for figures showing the drop off in Sweden was slower than in the UK etc. In England excess deaths started to spike around 20 March and were back in normal range by 20 May. In Sweden excess deaths started to spike around 1 April and are on track to be back to normal range by 1 June. They don’t look very different to me. Do you have figures that show otherwise?
Hard to show them on here but incidence in Sweden is falling at about half the rate (on a log scale) as U.K (U.K. half life is currently just over a week, Sweden closer to two but pretty stable). that’s because they have stumbled upon an R about 1 strategy. I view that as encouraging for when we do end lockdown. It says that once daily cases are down, we can keep them on a slow burn with their strategy. Btw the numbers above were daily incidence from Wikipedia based on ecdc data for U.K. NHS numbers are only England. You have to add Scotland, Wales and NI.
Sweden here. Pretty stable https://www.statista.com/statistics/1102193/coronavirus-cases-development-in-sweden/
You need to stop using case data. Case data tells you nothing. It is a function of testing – how many and which groups. Use death curves by date of death (not report) or hospitalisation curves otherwise you’ll persuade no one on here and are just perpetuating misinformation.
Cases are just a function of testing
Correct as Prof Gupta of Oxford university says. Cases are unreliable data . If we had had widespread testing in February we would have had a very different picture.
Unfortunately for your lockdown fanatic djaustine, there’s no sign in the data of any exponential growth, and there wasn’t from very early on. Quite the opposite; the rate of growth of cases was clearly dropping as early as February. A simple examination of the PHE data shows that between the 10th of march and the 17th of march the rate of change of the daily deaths went from 1.5 to 1.25 each day and it kept declining to 1 on the 8th of April. A gradually declining rate does not an exponential outbreak make; there is absolutely no sign of change in this from any measures at all. Deaths on the 10th of march were from cases caught in late February. The drop in rate of increase matches in Spain and Sweden with vastly different lockdowns.
Surely there is a short exponential phase. Take Sweden deaths (by date of death, 5 day average):
19/03 6.8
24/03 17
29/03 36
03/04 70.4
08/04 96.8
Here there is a more than doubling every 5 days in late March, slightly slowing in early April, brakes coming on around 6-8 April.
Exponential implies a constant or increasing rate of change surely. I don’t see that, I see a decreasing rate of change from the very start. Use PHE hospital data, take a 7 day average to smooth the data, calculate rate of change from one day to the next. It constantly decreases; about the 10th of march it’s around 1.5, already by the 17th it’s only 1.25. it decreases steadily.
At the same rebased point I the epidemic, when plotted on a log scale, you would find from 64 cases, all countries had a doubling time of 3 days. The variability was very low. I’ve added some official U.K. data above. Cumulative cases grew at the same rate as incidence of cases. That implies exponential growth.
Sorry case data is junk. Death data only.
And they didn’t double in three days for long. As I say PHE death data doesn’t support a constant or increasing rate of increase. Quite the opposite;The rate of increase slows constantly from the start of the death curve.
Do the same for deaths rebased from 16 onwards. I did and found the same slope and 3-day doubling time). Log scales adjust for different case fatality rates due to ascertainment differences across countries. Almost every country except U.K. had the same growth rate for cases and deaths. This is exactly what exponential growth in an epidemic predicts. A lag from cases to deaths does not remove the constant slope.
Deviations from exponential were also well-describes by Gompertz, which itself signals a deviation from pure mass-action and is a reflection of limited contacts, aka lockdown. The SIR model everyone loves gives the reason for deviation from exponential as lack of susceptibles. Seroprevalence suggests that this is unlikely (less than 10% have antibodies), but if there is some mythical non antibody immunity (unlike every other coronavirus in existence) then deviation may be due to that instead of reduced contacts. I don’t believe that based on precedence. Deviation from exponential is self-evident. The reason, biology and precedence would suggest, is not lack of people to infect. So it must be…
Yes non antibody immunity. Karol Sikora of the WHO has been talking about it see https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/health/1285960/coronavirus-update-latest-cases-t-cells-vaccine-antibody-test. Also see https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.17.20061440v1.
Perhaps he’d like to read this preprint – one of the most reasonable pieces about immunity to coronavirus infections – for some perspective. I’m not hopeful for lasting immunity.
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.11.20086439v1
If Covid 19 is just another common cold coronavirus, and its mortality by age suggests that it is, why should a lack of immunity be of any concern? Coronaviruses/rhinoviruses have been known to be more lethal to the elderly and infirm than influenza for some time and we have to live with thar. The response is better hygiene in care homes e.g. frequent hand washing (Who knew!)
https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/how-can-pandemic-spreads-be-contained-in-care-homes/
Other research shows some cross immunity to Covid 19 from other common cold coronaviruses (hmmmm…….? If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck etc.)
‘The teams also looked at the T-cell response in blood samples that had been collected between 2015 and 2018, before SARS-CoV-2 started circulating. They detected SARS-CoV-2-reactive CD4+ T cells in ~50% of unexposed individuals. But everybody has almost certainly seen at least three of the four common cold coronaviruses, which could explain the observed crossreactivity.’
https://www.genengnews.com/news/good-news-for-covid-19-vaccine-immune-system-shows-robust-response-to-sars-cov-2/
Logistic or exponential then?
Regions of the U.K. are better described by a generalised-logistic equation at one end is pure logistic (SIR like model) at the other extreme is gompertz. The exponent for the U.K. is about 0.25 that days it’s a lot more like gompertz than logistic. Deviation from pure logistic is more suggestive of contact reduction (mass action mixing) than immunity.
Contact reduction in February though? Or even early March? lets be honest, that wasn’t happening.
Ok, plotted that. To my eyes until 24 March it remains at or above 1.2 daily growth rate. It darts around a bit and does come down from an initial high but sits quite still for a week between 16 and 23 March. That would correspond to the short exponential phase. I can see what you and others are saying about there being a downward pressure from the start, but the growth rate does hold steady for a week or so. You can also see in those Sweden figures a couple of weeks of periodic doubling. I don’t think it’s right to say there is no exponential phase given these figures.
If you want to claim 1 week of exponential growth sitting between 2 periods of downwards movement of the rate of growth then be my my guest; it’s hard to claim that this downwards pressure was caused by anything other than an innate characteristic of either the virus or the population, it’s way too early for any govt measures.
It’s telling that djaustin seems to be unable to accept what the data shows, that something is causing a deviation from exponential akin to population immunity.
I basically agree. What I’m worried about is that the claim that the growth was never exponential is quite a technical one based on a strict definition of exponential that risks making sceptics look implausible to people who can see deaths doubling every few days. Take England hospital deaths:
12/3 14
16/3 41
20/3 100
24/3 222
28/3 400
Ok, so in fact the exponent is decreasing over time. But it’s quite technical to say a trend like that is not exponential with doubling coming every few days. I fear it makes sceptics look implausible to non-mathematicians to argue it was never exponential.
Ok, I get what you’re saying. But it’s important that we do point out that the exponent decreases with time, in other words, the pedal was lifted long before the brakes of the lockdown were put on.
I should note that in the graph above the swedish data has been moved to sync with the UK data. It shows each day divided by the previous day, giving a rate of increase/decrease. Both show a short period, possibly where the exponent remained constant (although I detect some downward movement in the UK), but only lasting maybe a week at most.
Full comparison of data attached. Which one had lockdown?!
I can buy that the lockdown might have caused a sharper reduction in the tail in the UK than in Sweden. But that’s a very different cost/benefit analysis, if it achieved nothing else.
In terms of length of drop off, the only thing that really matters is the period during which there are excess deaths. I haven’t been able to calculate this accurately for both countries, but from what I can see it looks like the period will be very similar. Stockholm for example was already back at the top end of the normal range by the end of April.
Todays excess mortality – predicted from regional UK COVID deaths modelled with a generalised logistic curve then summed over NHS regions. Area under the curve of excess deaths is heading towards 70K.
In epidemic land, only log-scales matter. Yesterday’s ECDC data for the UK is well-described by a Gompertz model for cases and deaths simultaneously. Plotting the same data for Sweden, shows them to be an outlier in that cases are not falling as fast. Spain is an outlier in the opposite direction – cases are falling faster. All countries are modelled simultaneously.
UK
Sweden
You are ignoring the point; Do you deny that the exponent was decreasing from the very start of the epidemic? What explanation do you offer for this?I contend that there is a natural ‘breaking force’ on the epidemic beyond population immunity, as we clearly haven’t hit a simple SIR model population immunity. I also contend that it is improper to call this growth exponential; the exponent is never constant. I contend that if you were to see some effect of lockdown you would see it in the rate of change, and I do not see any evidence that it was effective.
I don’t deny the breaking effect at all – in fact, all my models have included this explicitly – what I contend is that the effect is much greater than an SIR model would expect – hence Gompertz and generalised logistic curved describe the data much better. That is due to restriction in contacts not acquisition of immunity.
Contact restriction works and has done so. One can debate how much is necessary, and how early it came into effect, but a lot of sceptics would maintain that it has had no effect whatsoever. That is my point. The early break up to mid-March was relatively modest, except in Japan and S Korea, where there really was very different growth.
Spain is a great example – fast up and fast down – quite a different decline to UK.
Ok – but the lowering of the exponent starts before contact restriction begins though? It is clearly declining through deaths in early march which is before most people had changed behavior and implies that it wasn’t just contact reduction that had this effect?
I don’t deny that contact reduction has had some effect, although I do wonder whether forcing families into homes to infect each other would have had a counter effect as well. I’m also not sure about the added effect of full lockdown on top of contact reduction.
I can’t see any consistent effect of social distancing on death rates in cities around the world. Can you?
One final point – your rate of change is actually the second derivative – Daily incidence is the derivative of cumulative cases, the difference is the second derivative. Second derivative will always show a decline from the beginning for any exponential growth model with limiting resources, be that due to immunity or contact reduction. For the three weeks before lockdown, there was approximately exponential growth in cases and for the two weeks, deaths (they were too low at three weeks).This was matched by every other country except JP and South Korea when rebased to the same point in their epidemics. Sweden came later behind us and took a different action They have not really “overshot” but have shown a rise to steady-state, which is not really showing much evidence of decline.
Of course it would always trend down in a limited system. However, I suggest that the earliest you could account for the effect of the lockdown is probably the week after it happened, if we’re using data from deaths – and that assumes that the instructions issued by BJ the monday before were effective. Given that the rate was declining steadily (I can fit a straight trendline from the 21st march to the 10th of April), why is there no change from the lockdown?
Here’s another graph comparing Sweden and England showing a decline in rate without any real effect from the lockdown.
It’s even got a log graph for you
Taken from
https://twitter.com/PFDgeologist/status/1264838174553112577
Case data is useless and trends in it are misleading. You’re not engaging with this point.
I posted plots of the rates of decline in UK, Sweden and Spain for incidence of deaths and cases above using consistent ECDC hospital death data – It is clear from those three plots that Spain has the fastest decline, followed by UK, followed by Sweden. There is a statistically significant difference (if that matters to you), and the order follows the order of severity of lockdown. My contention is only that lockdown works. Nowhere have I argued the ethics of doing so.
Yes that’s a very important point that I hadn’t properly appreciate before. The growth was never strictly exponential as the growth rate was always coming down, from the very start before any interventions at all had been made. I don’t think I’m going to join in saying it was ‘never exponential’ (for the reasons given above about plausibility and it being quite a technical distinction) but I can certainly say this.
For the plot above, you should really plot difference/absolute value. For dN/dt = rN f(t) then 1/N dN/dt = d(logN), plotting difference/N gives the f(t) which will indicate the deviation from pure exponential growth.
The alternative explanation, certainly for the United Kingdom, is that a minor coronavirus common cold epidemic followed its traditional path until exacerbated by large numbers of the elderly and infirm being discharged from hospital to make way for Covid 19 patients who never turned up: https://www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m1931 England Covid 19 infection numbers data flawed: ‘Summary of the initial results: 1. There is considerable diversity of molecular platforms, reagents, kits and assay performance conditions in PHE and NHS laboratories providing SARS-CoV-2 molecular detection 2. There is evidence of quality assurance difficulties for key reagents due to global supply chain issues 3. Shortages of swabs and transport medium have led to local variations in sampling practice which may impact on assay performance through the introduction of inhibitors into biochemical reactions 4. There is no evidence of viral genetic drift as a basis for altered sensitivity of assay 5. Enzyme performance from external suppliers has degraded compared with original validation performance.’ https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Zoki1xUKuY15JmPujZXd-mMjXn0K_2GM/view England mortality data flawed: ‘In an emergency period of the COVID-19 pandemic there is a relaxation of previous legislation concerning completion of the medical certificate cause of death (MCCD) by medical practitioners’ https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/877302/guidance-for-doctors-completing-medical-certificates-of-cause-of-death-covid-19.pdf Any enquiry can only conclude that far reaching policy… Read more »
Is every other country’s data also so flawed that the initial spread was at the same rate and wholly consistent from country to country. I don’t believe in exceptionalism. Variability was about 30%. Rhinovirus does not induce hypoxia in otherwise healthy individuals. The morbidity for this pathogen is totally at odds with the common cold. Morbidity is likely to be similar to influenza (<1%), Nowhere have I argued otherwise.
Thomas, here is my analysis of the deviation from pure exponential growth of cases and deaths. This uses cumulative numbers and derivative. A value of 1 is pure exponential. You will see deviation begins really after the third week in March. Of course the early restrictions, rather than pure lock-down will have had some effect, but there is quite an acceleration beyond lockdown.
Djaustin needs to explain to Michael Levitt where Levitt’s analysis went so wrong to achieve results that directly contradict most of Djaustin’s assertions. It might be an appeal to authority, but I’m going with the Nobel Laureate for now. And, by the way, a key point here is that Levitt (and others) pointed out many of the key points back before the lockdown or as it was introduced. There is no excuse for having acted on the kind of ridiculous assumptions that were used to justify the lockdown – they were demonstrably implausible or flat out wrong at the time and that fact was pointed out. Djaustin comes out with some of the obvious errors again here, suggesting that it was somehow meaningful to extrapolate from early rapid growth in numbers. The one thing that was absolutely incontrovertibly known for certain at the time was that such rates of growth where not going to continue and indeed as Levitt has pointed out, in every case there was no exponential growth at any point after these epidemics were identified. Contemplate that fact, when you think back to all the black fear propaganda about “exponential growth” we were treated to at the… Read more »
Quite. In fact COVID has acted as any epidemic ever; it has been self limited from the start and never accelerated, something slowed it down before any measures at all.
Looks like there were several of is all pointing out the errors in Djaustin’s points simultaneously. What really concerns me is that if he is indeed a former epidemiologist, how does he not know this already?
I get the feeling that epidemiologists are basically modellers and not that interested in hard data.
Yes, but they ought to be basically numerate and aware of the kinds of elementary facts that we’ve pointed out here.
I performed the same analysis as Levitt weeks earlier. At lockdown, geothermal in cases and deaths in the U.K. were exponential. They slowed as any intervention would reduce mass action and a Gompertz equation describes that effect well
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.09.20059402v1
Figure 1 right at the end shows U.K. on a growth chart from all other countries. When your child is an outlier, what do you do?
Growth in not geothermal.
Published the day after deaths peaked according to CEBM, Oxford (8th April, a mere 16 days from incarceration on 24th March following BJ’s speech the evening before0.
You shield your child and let the rest of us get on with our lives?
Precisely. On the growth charts for the epidemic, the U.K. was that child. It was the outlier. Hence we shielded it.
I must say I found the Djaustin letter interesting. It raised some ideas that I hadn’t seen or considered before. The decelaration or rate of change of deaths/cases makes sense with regard to the efficacy of lockdown. I’d be interested to know if the difference is significant. I can see the slopes on the graphs but I don’t put too much faith in the data.
I don’t agree that Sweden was “probably fortuitous” though. Their results are in line with what they predicted. Had they not made the same mistake as everyone else in letting it spread within care homes their death toll would have been roughly half what it is.
Regarding the 60k excess deaths I’m of the belief that lockdowns are cause for some proportion of these. We can’t say precisely what proportion but the number not attributed to COVID-19 is a good starting point. There is also a strong case to be made that stricter lockdowns cause more excess deaths. Certainly places with stricter measures than Sweden have proportionately higher excess deaths that are unlikely to be all caused by the virus. So either it’s coincidence or it’s somehow related to the lockdowns.
Walked past a housing showroom which reopened today. Despite the sign at the door that said that they were observing social distancing, it seemed like no-one was paying attention. The staff also weren’t wearing any masks and gloves and looked like it was business as usual.
These perpetual updates when you’re trying to read someone’s comment are really distracting. I’m irritated enough already without this site adding to it. If you’re reading this, Toby, can you ask your comment software people to pack it in?
Disabling Javascript, and reloading the page stops the update “thingy” – unfortunately this prevents you from making comments…
Hear hear !
I liked the smaller font, and more tightly nested comments, I’m getting repetitive strain injury scrolling up and down the page.
Browser zoom control ?
On Windows pressing Ctrl & + or – will change the font size in a webpage
I think it feels too ‘chaotic’. I would suggest that mere indentation isn’t enough to separate each top comment and its replies from the next one. There needs to be some sort of box around a set of connected comments.
Thanks Toby, much more balanced. And I share your repugnance of the baying mob (with no love lost for Mr Cummings, in the least, as I have opined so will spare the repetition). I’m seeing more and more posts on social media that lockdown is in effect over, I really hope that’s true.
Maybe for individuals, but not for schools, dentists, the travel industry, hotels, elective surgery, etc. It is the latter set of bodies and processes that are so desperately needed to limit the already catastrophic effects coming down the line.
No, of course I agree, in dashing off my comment I didn’t explain myself very well, people who have up to now not made a peep, or been very stoic and pro lockdown are now saying ‘well what’s the point, it’s over’ – I mean a change in mood.
Lockdown sadly, isn’t over. Not Until our Suprime Leader allows it. Most public services and amenities remain closed. It’s strange that newspapers publish pictures of people on beaches and report that people are getting “back to normal”.
Bizarrely the park 15m drive from us still has a locked carpark, with police signs advising the public to report non-adherence.
But thank goodness Son can return to his preschool on Monday.
As Hitchens points out, it won’t ever be really over until we have an apology and an admission of error from those who inflicted it upon us. Otherwise even once it peters out it will still be lurking in the background ready to be reimposed at the first sign of a new disease or a recurrence of this one.
As I recall, the “Emergency Powers” are supposed to be limited to 3 months, at which time they need to be debated in parliament before being extended. That means we’ve got another few weeks, but what’s the betting it will just carry on without so much as a peep from the meeja?
My guess is they’ll have to “regularise” the position at some point, but I can’t see there being much meaningful opposition. Lots of noise about trivial details, but no meaningful resistance to the whole basis.
I thought there was a need to debate and potentially vote in parliament every 6 months, but this can be prolonged indefinitely by ministerial fiat. And the whole thing expires in 2 years.
We can’t do this for 2 years!
Not sure if it’s 3 months, I’d thought 6 months BUT that’s in part what Simon Dolan’s Crowd Justice appeal is all about.
@Mark, Julian & Nel – I was wrong, it is 2 years, but with a provision for debate every 6 months. From here: https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/coronavirus-act How long measures will last for Most of the Act will stop having effect two years after it is passed. Some provisions, including certain provisions relating to the emergency registration of health professionals and indemnity of health service activity do not expire after two years. Following government amendments in the Commons, MPs will now have an opportunity to express a view on the continued operation of the Act’s temporary provisions every six months. Every six months, a minister must, ‘as far as practicable’ make arrangements for MPs to vote to keep the provisions of the Act in force. If MPs are able to vote and vote to stop against keeping the provisions of the Act in force, the government must make regulations to prevent provisions having effect within 21 days. MPs will only be able to vote on the continuation of the powers if parliament is sitting. If they are not able to vote, the powers will remain in force …………………………………………………………………………………………… Either side of that paragraph options allow changes to the timings, but it strikes me that… Read more »
Presumably at some point they’ll bring in a Public Health Bill at some time, to regularise this kind of response for the future.
There is no Parliament so there will be no debate.
I agree, and safeguards so they cannot do it again. I meant more the ‘mood’, people seem to be commenting more, asking questions, scoffing, saying ‘well what’s the point’ etc. I do concur that they absolutely have to recant, and we need an independent inquiry, a Leveson / Iraq war rolled into one.
This lot aren’t big on recanting.
The Cummings business is still good news whether he resigns or not. But it’s weird to see Johnson now pissing off pretty much the whole country. He always loved a good windup but normally had a majority on his side.
Yep, that’s precisely what I mean. My Telegraph reading, Tory voting, brexit supporting parents are appalled. So are all their friends. So is the Daily Fail. It’s a definite tone shift.
Lockdown’s not over until we can socialise in the accepted sense of the word, like a drink in the pub, a meal in a restaurant, a visit to a cinema or theatre, a concert, a sporting event, a Thames pleasure cruise….and on and on and on. If there are no arts or culture (in the broadest possible sense) in this country then we don’t have a ‘society’ we have a slave colony.
Yes I know that, I just mean the tone of the debate, I’ve seen lots of posts today, from people who had been quiet, saying ‘sod this for a game of soldiers, arranged to go and stay with my parents’ or ‘well if it’s good enough for him, we’re having a barbecue’ or whatever, I’ve had more chat, proper discussion, on my own timeline today than at any point through all this (and 100 unfriended me, my scepticism was so appalling!),it’s cheered me up a bit. A bit like O’Neill’s Spiked article, the public have to lead the way, and I think the public mood has changed quite a lot. I’ve not seen all that much ‘he’s killing people’ but people are angry at the hypocrisy.
Oh, and Barnard’s Castle, I didn’t know, is actually Geordie Slang also, ‘that’s Barney Castle’ means ‘that’s a rubbish excuse’, a colloquialism that made me laugh when I read it.
So Johnson’s big announcement today,non-essential shops (whatever the bloody hell that means) can open from June 15th,another bloody three weeks away ! and then only subject to this oppressive distancing nonsense,just unbelievable.This is really going to help small businesses loads isn’t it ! there aren’t going to be many left to re-open.Johnson and all of the government must actually be insane,they really must,I know many small business owners that are in complete despair,years of hard work thrown away in a matter of weeks for no good reason by the actions of those at the top who just do not give a flying shit about anybody but themselves.
Some of the big shops have reopened. Yesterday I saw a photo of two staff members from Fortnum & Mason wearing both visors and masks. Talk about overkill and serious barrier to providing good customer service!
But I don’t want to frequent big shops. I want my quirky local independents to be able to function successfully.
Social distancing when shopping and all the other petty rules along with the Stasi enforcers mean that shopping is no pleasure. This is the end of the small business shop.
Dispiriting visit to the supermarket today. It was the only place open in a large shopping centre, and till now, was relatively normal. But now they’re in the process of introducing the absurd one way system with the annoying arrows on the floor. This was the first day of phase two of the so called deescalation, but what they give with one hand they take away with the other. There’s no sign that they are going to let this lunacy go anytime son.
That’s just what I can’t understand,a few of the shops in my town that have remained open all through this and been pretty normal are only now implementing the ridiculous types of measures you mention.I was in one of these shops last week,not through choice I must add,and I overheard two staff members talking,one of them said that she ‘felt happier at work this week because everything was back to normal in the store’ !,one door to go in,one to exit,staff in masks,frowning on taking cash,keep 2 metres away from everybody and don’t touch anything unless you are buying it,yes,that’s really normal.Not like this for the past eight weeks so why now ?.
That’s a good question. Insurance? Edict from some official business gestapo?
Make sure when buying fresh food you check the dates on everything available to get the latest date. Pop into shops decide you don’t want anything and walk back out. Non compliance can beat this.
Paul, I found this on the HSE website. Here’s our answer:
The updated guidance takes into account the best practice demonstrated by the many retailers which have been allowed to remain open and have applied social distancing measures in store. Measures that shops should consider include placing a poster in their windows to demonstrate awareness of the guidance and commitment to safety measures, storing returned items for 72 hours before putting them back out on the shop floor, placing protective coverings on large items touched by the public such as beds or sofas, and frequent cleaning of objects and surfaces that are touched regularly, including self-checkouts, trolleys, coffee machines and betting terminals, for example.
The vast majority of businesses will want to do everything possible to protect their staff and customers, but tough powers are in place to enforce action if they don’t, including fines and jail sentences of up to two years.
In France these shops have reopened the 11th of this month. At first a lot social distancing, one way walking areas and such (why the big supermarkets who also sell a lot non essential stuff don’t have to comply to these rules I don’t know), but after a week already situation returned a little bit to normal with most people ignoring the “one way” arrows on the floor and clearly not keeping the 1 meter distance. Still lots of sheeple with facemasks though…
Not just BBC, ITV, C4, Sky and The Guardian to be kept at bay, much as I used to admire them The Independent have lost all sense they may have had on other issues pre-lockdown by running some disturbingly deluded pro-lockdown articles in response to Cummings’ reasonable* travel with mroe bullsh*t claims which tried to state that by travelling, and not even meeting anyone, he was committing “murder by virus”.
*by civilised opinions pretty much all travel is reasonable, lockdown is the unreasonable thing
I’m afraid djaustin is wrong. The growth of the epidemic was NEVER exponential. See:
https://twitter.com/pfdgeologist/status/1264838174553112577?s=21
Shows unequivocally that the epidemic did not have an exponential growth phase.
Moreover, UK and Sweden declining at a near identical rate. I don’t know why this is so hard because the data is out there. The analysis is not that difficult. There is no evidence that lockdown in the UK had any impact on the progress of the epidemic. If djaustin is a mathematician then he can look at my analysis of the English and Swedish data and tell me where it is wrong.
Surely it was exponential on the way up for a bit before slowing down?
Depends what you mean. The rate of growth was dropping from the very start.
“Surely it was exponential on the way up for a bit before slowing down?“ That’s not what Levitt found, at least not from when it was being measured. He speculates that it’s because of asymptomatic and non-infecting cases. Here’s his discussion from the transcript of the interview linked by Toby the other day(emphasis added): ” And uh, one thing that the curves show and it is predictable, but basically this virus is slowing down from case one, now clearly nobody has any lockdown when you have one case, people don’t usually implement lockdown until you have say a thousand cases or a few hundred cases. Well it turns out that the, the growth is slowing down. It’s never exponential, but it’s slowing down dramatically. Professor Levitt (00:55:57): So if you infect, you know, three people on day one, then those people will only infect 15% less of those three people. And so in an, like a bank paying you, a great thing, come to our bank, we’ll pay you a hundred percent for the first week and then 50% for the next week and, 25% for the next week. And you’ll quickly realize that it would have been way better.… Read more »
asymptomatic and infectious cases, grrr!
Interesting. In theory if 50% of the cases are invisible but otherwise behave the same the epidemic should still follow the SIR curve just with everything divided by 2.
My theory was always that the reason we never saw exponential growth in deaths (or very little) was basically because by the time we started noticing them we were already past the exponential region.
But Levitt shows Gompertz growth fits very well right from the start with small outbreaks. I would assume the reason for this is lack of homogeneous mixing. There are plenty of susceptible people in the entire population but not among your immediate contacts. I think Gompertz is often a good fit for epidemics and there are some papers of other people in the earlier days fitting different models including Gompertz to see what worked best.
Anyway I think he’s going to make a new video on his YT channel soon so we’ll see what he says. The transcript you sent a link to is very interesting though.
I think that is pretty much what he’s saying (that it went through more quickly and was past the rapid growth phase), but I don’t fully follow his explanation. The important point was mainly his observation in the numbers of no exponential growth.
It will be interesting to see how he follows this up as I think he was only in the process of formulating a hypothesis on this, at the time of the interview.
Yes I think the SIR model looks a lot like the Gompertz one once you’re out of the exponential region. As the log deaths curve is bending over, you get a pretty straight line in the graph of its gradient (which Gompertz has all the way) all the way until very nearly the bottom when it levels out again (it’s another reverse sigmoid type of thing).
No not exponential on the way up. Increasing yes but at an ever decreasing rate from the get go! If you look at my tweet and the upper plot. The red dots are the rate at which it is increasing on a daily basis. See the dots are aligned along a slope downwards indicating the rate is decreasing. Confusingly, the decrease is exponential!
Surely there is a short exponential phase. Take Sweden deaths (by date of death, 5 day average):
19/03 6.8
24/03 17
29/03 36
03/04 70.4
08/04 96.8
Here there is a more than doubling every 5 days in late March, slight slowing at start of April, brakes coming on around 6-8 April.
That looks like two consecutive 5 day periods before slowing but you need to look at overall picture….see my tweet above and plot of Swedish data over 70 day period in blue. There’s no substitute for graphing the data! Top plot shows a continuous straight line with negative gradient. An exponential growth phase will be horizontal on this plot. Can you point out to me where this is? And a huge caveat when looking at small numbers. The noise, or variability in the data is significant. This is seen by how the points to the left between days 1 and 10 bouncing around considerably for both Swedish and UK data.
Also look at the middle graph showing cumulative deaths. Where you say it is exponential growth all lies at the left edge of the plot before day 10 – its not visible above the x-axis. By 20 days it is clear above the noise that it is not exponential.
I feel like you and others are trying to argue against the figures that show a period of exponential growth. I’ve looked at the growth rate for England hospital deaths and it seems clear to me that it stays above 1.2 growth rate until 24 March, and stays pretty steady around 1.2 between 16 and 23 March. I can’t really see how until 24 March it can’t be described as exponential growth. It’s not a long exponential phase, but I don’t really buy the idea that it’s not there.
Thanks for the comment Will. I again refer you to the plot. Day 20 on the x axis is the 21st March. By day 20 the fact that the rate of growth in numbers of deaths is declining is evident in the negative slope of the upper graph. I grant you that up to the 12th March the data is noisy and at that time difficult to assess. It is with hindsight that we can see there is something limiting from the first case onwards. So it is difficult to make a decision as to what is happening and an exponential model appropriate for unrestricted growth is often used. However, lockdown decision was taken on the 19th when the evidence was beginning to accrue that growth was limited by some factor. For the record I don’t disagree with that decision. However, from every day onwards the evidence became more and more clear. Simply updating the plots every day would give you more and more confidence in ones estimates of the Gompertz parameters and would allow higher confidence in the predicted trajectory of the epidemic. By the time of the first review – 3 weeks later the peak had been passed.… Read more »
If you look at the Gompertz line of best fit it is below the gradient data for much of the early period (till the blue vertical line) as the data has flat areas. Likewise, the Gompertz curve is not as steep on the way up and flattens earlier. I think you’re basically correct (except in seeing the lockdown as justified initially, they were always obviously a ruinous overreaction!) in that with the clear downward pressure on the growth rate throughout it is not in a sense of true exponential growth, but I think that’s quite a technical point which is hard to convince people of when they can see with their own eyes doubling trends for a couple of weeks. eg in England approx every 4 days in later March:
12/3 14
16/3 41
20/3 100
24/3 222
28/3 400
Ok, so in fact the exponent is decreasing all the time. But it’s quite technical to say a trend like that is not exponential with doubling coming every few days. I fear it makes sceptics look implausible to non-mathematicians to say it was never exponential.
Will, taking your numbers the rate of growth for each 4 day interval is:
2.93, 2.44, 2.22, 1.80
You have just proved the point that the rate of growth is falling! This is an important point because in exponential growth it does not fall, it remains constant.
It might be technical but it is also true and one should never shy away from accurately describing the data even though it might be difficult for others to understand.
Will, I think we are in agreement on the basic science here but perhaps disagreeing on how to relate this so that others can understand it. I take your point that being overly technical and precise can be confusing. I then take that to mean that we need to explain more clearly so that our fellow citizens can understand better. You make a good point about the upper plot. If one looks at the points and the line of best fit one observes a waviness if the points around the line that is not random. This implies a small variation in the time constants (there are two of these in The Gompertz equation) about the mean implied by the line. This is why the resulting cumulative line (middle graph) and death rate curve (bottom graph) show variation from the actual data. I don’t believe this affects in any way the interpretation that the virus was limiting from the outset. These variations are likely due to the fact that the dynamics of the epidemic are not regionally homogeneous. That is there are variations say between London and the north-west and so on. However, the overall pattern is undeniably one of a… Read more »
“It points to a limiting behaviour” Quite – and a natural one, as this behaviour is without doubt shown from before any human change is possible to have impacted the curve. It also shows in Swedish data, and Spanish. Something caused the rate to decelerate, and that something was natural. The epidemic would never have hit 60% of people without any measures, it would have self limited before that. The death tolls implied by modeling – all modeling – were wrong.
Given that the rate of change was moving downwards long before the lockdown, it’s hard to see what additional effect it might have had. If I was trying to prove the efficacy of a lockdown I’d like to see it changing the rate at which the disease spread.
Absolutely. In Genoa in northern Italy they began social distancing early in the epidemic, and it still continued growing
exponentiallyvery fast for nearly a month before coming to a peak. Elsewhere the curve slowed down at completely different periods from the beginning of the adoption of social distancing. I have not been able to find any consistent relationship between social distancing and the shape of the curve. But who, save for a few brave souls, is pointing this out?djaustin is a lying bollix.
You are welcome to view figure 1 at the end of this preprint. I wrote it some time ago. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.09.20059402v1
Gompertz is not a bad model and a good description of the epidemic now. Btw a gompertz model is equivalent to an SIR model with limited contacts. Hence lockdown is built into that model, with eventual deviation from exponential.
See my comment above to your other posting where I thanked you for the link. I’ll read in detail tomorrow.
Has there ever been an epidemic that had unfettered exponential growth? Modelling is all well and good but it seems to me that they assume everything is uniform.
Instinctively the more a virus spreads the harder it becomes to find enough new hosts to maintain exponential growth. That’s assuming uniformity and no voluntary change in behaviour which is highly unlikely in any real life situation.
It stands to reason that any exponential spread of a virus has an upper limit long before full saturation is achieved.
It’s a bad move I think to try to dogwhistle brexiteers to back Cummings on this. It’s understandable loyalty to a (no doubt) friend and political co-campaigner, but all it will do is damage the causes it seeks to protect, when Cummings does go down. And if he doesn’t all it does it keep in office one of the architects of lockdown, a man of established poor judgement by virtue of that fact alone, leaving him damaged and in a position to do more damage to our country and to try to cover up and justify the lockdown from an insider position of power.
And I write that as someone who has been anti-EU since before there was an EU (Maastricht).
And, of course, Baker was one of the leading Brexiteers (not sure about all the other conservative MPs against DC’s staying).
Lots of the very fake looking comments on the Daily Mail were trying to do exactly that. Portray Cummings as the hero of Brexit being attacked by the leftist media. Well you can’t blame him for trying I suppose.
We support Brexit. Not the people ‘attached’ to it. – They seem to change quite often 😉
Regardless of what you think of the account that Cummings has had weeks to polish, what is absolutely clear is that going back to No 10 after visiting his infected wife was 100% against both spirit AND the letter of the law. That should be it.
Having vacillated wildly on the Dom question, I have to agree with Toby, who doesn’t seem to know whether he thinks Dom should go or not either. As a free thinker, Brexiter and general non-conformist, I have to agree with Cummings’ approach to the question of rules. For the guidance of wise men and the blind obedience of fools. I pity the dying elderly whose mealy-mouthed relatives let the remote threat of a £60 fine stop them being with their so-called loved ones. And I am an avowed enemy of almost all of those people calling for Cummings’ head. And yet… I cannot think of a single thing he’s known to have done since being in No10 that I would welcome, and the creeping feeling of having been made a mug of by the politicians, police and media – and by Cummings himself – must surely start to come to us all. Perhaps Poppy (comments yesterday) is right and the whole puppet show was dreamed up by him to get people to push back against the ‘soft lockdown’ and get back to work. But should we welcome being manipulated by these nudgers even if it’s to ends of which we… Read more »
It’s not just the remote threat of fines that imposed these ridiculous rules. It was a disgraceful campaign of fear and intimidation. Hospital staff actually prevented people from seeing loved ones. Some police officers set up checkpoints on roads.
I don’t blame him for breaking the rules, but for coming up with them, and being part of an administration responsible for them. Don’t care what happens to him.
Do not give the media anything. Not a shred of of satisfaction or credit. Never forget these last 2 months… The government may have set the stupid policy decision but who has been responsible for brainwashing the primitives.
Give them nothing.
I think the problem might be that Boris is burning his political capital defending Cummings… he’s going to need that political capital when he finally decides we should get everything moving again.
https://thehill.com/opinion/healthcare/499394-the-covid-19-shutdown-will-cost-americans-millions-of-years-of-life
A must read about the enormous cost of lockdown. Already after two months double more life years loss from lockdown than from Covid-19. And that is just the beginning. Stunning figures with serious public health consequences. Half of the childhood vaccinations has not been done during the lockdown. There will be pockets of population (the poorest of course) where small measles outbreaks can happen and kill younger people more than Covid-19.
This is not an article from the fringe ie. Scott W. Atlas is a physician and senior fellow at Stanford University’s Hoover Institution
The lockdown must be the biggest public health disaster ever. Where is the investigative left-wing media?
Measles was not seen as an evil killing disease when I caught it in my youth (as all of my friends at the time) and with only one death every 1000 cases (in Europe) I doubt very much the reason for vaccination against it. I think there are far more deadlier diseases that deserve a vaccine ( no covid19 not being one of them 😉 )
Because of having measles vaccine introduced in a population there is no choice than to immunize. The earlier public health advice was to reach a herd immunity by immunisations and not natural disease. Natural disease gives you natural protection 100%. Vaccine can never achieve that and even at 90 % level of immunity by vaccine you would have pockets of people (many older) being susceptible to measles. Measles have one of the highest R factor around and measles is more severe and can even kill if you are older and adults. There is no choice now because of an earlier decision to immunize. We must vaccinate against measles.
I remember my old professor in virology in early 70’s who thought it was a crazy idea to start immunize children against measles even though he admitted there was a certain but low mortality of measles in children. He said it was a stupid idea as we would have to rely on vaccine for ever and we could have epidemics of measles among old people killing them in masses. We all laughed at him at his back seeing him as an old-fashioned social Darwinist. But I think he had a point.
Am I right in thinking that the other reason people liked to get measles over early in life was that it resets the adaptive immune system, so that after having it you gain immunity to measles but lose all other immunities built up in your lifetime so far?
As soon as they announced the lockdown here in the UK the very first thought that came into my head was:
“What the f**k are they doing”
Since then my thoughts have changed slightly to:
“What the f**k have they done”
Don’t be surprised to see stories in the MSM about unusual measles outbreak caused by covid (because they will all test positive of course) .
The scene is set for saying it’s all covid. Caused by covid.
The UK is prolonging the reduction in lockdown measures over the summer months. What was 21 days to flatten the curve has now become an eternity of purgatory. Our whole well being as a nation is put in the hands of ” the scientists” who seem to have no more ability to divine the future than mystic Meg.
So much misery caused by the folly of man.
And there’s no excuse whatsoever for prolonging it by even a minute except to protect the reputations, positions and careers of the fools and scoundrels who misled us into it.
And there’s no excuse whatsoever for prolonging it by even a minute
I agree but I’m not sure your suggested reason for it is the only one. Yours is just less sinister than the alternative.
Out of all this insanity, here’s the thing that most makes me want to projectile vomit:
SCIENTISTS
Once upon a time, scientists were dispassionate seekers-after-truth. Science was a noble calling; the scientific method one of the greatest tools humanity has developed to unravel the nature of reality.
THEN POLITICS AND BIG BUSINESS GOT INVOLVED.
That marked the end of trustworthy science. Most scientists now depend on either politicians or corporatocracies for their funding, and they have to do their paymasters’ bidding. Which means they are encouraged to lie, obfuscate, or talk utter bullshit.
Unfortunately, this has produced a generation of scientists who mostly fall into the following 3 categories:
1) NUMPTIES (That’s you, Neil)
2) PSYCHOPATHS (The ones who spend their career developing such wonders as weaponised viruses to murder people)
3) CROOKS (The ones taking massive bribes from Big Pharma. One of the reasons we’re still locked down. These guys want their big vaccine jackpot and have GOT to stop us reaching herd immunity.)
The Science Swamp needs to be drained.
Woah…some of us are trying to do good science!
I don’t doubt it, PFD! My comment did say “mostly”.
I am incensed because I LOVE science, having been in my youth an avid amateur astronomer and amateur chemist, but not being mathematically literate enough to make science a profession.
So it breaks my heart when I see one of humanity’s greatest achievements, the scientific method, prostituted for commercial or political gain.
I wish we could go back to the impartial situation of the 18th and 19th century “gentleman scientist” – the guys (and sometimes gals) who made far-reaching discoveries in their spare time, while holding down a day job such as lawyer or clergyman.
Having said that, health blogger Phil Escott spoke of the recent emergence of the “citizen scientist” in creating healthcare breakthroughs – ordinary folk who are using the internet (PubMed and an online medical dictionary) to research, and find effective treatments for, their own chronic illness.
You did Gracie!
I have a lot of time for citizen science and public understanding of science. One of the tragedies of the lockdown is that there is a very significant portion of the population who are not thinking critically and evaluating data or information in any way. They are accepting the fodder they are fed!
I hope you still enjoy your astronomy and chemistry. If not….take them up again!
I’m still an “armchair” astronomer; maybe I should take up the practical side again – good telescopes are MUCH cheaper now.
Not so sure about the chemistry; I still remember with shame the time my young scientist self caused an explosion – which incorporated blue litmus powder – in my parents’ newly-redecorated kitchen!
I spoke to an IQ 125+ acquaintance today who thought the IFR of coronvirus was 6%
Intelligence is not necessarily an effective defence against the consequences of ignorance
I guess I have always associated intelligence with intellectual curiousity and lack of laziness when it came to considering important questions. Turns out I was wrong. Or my definition of intelligence needs to be expanded.
Absolutely spot on.
I sometimes get the feeling this is becoming like the Babylonian Captivity.
Sheesh, which pope shall we back?
i was thinking more of the first one where the people from Jerusalem were deported to Babylon. But in reply to your question, is “none of the above” an option?
I think it was probably the choice of most ordinary people at the time.
As for the first Captivity – I would sit down and weep by the waters, but I can’t because they’ve closed off the river path.
Agree. And you had to feel sorry for many of the cardinals at that time who were being pulled into different directions. I could imagine myself spoiling my ballot.
I can sit down and weep by mine but its disgusting. It would go like this: “By the polluted rivers of Babylon, I sat down and wept……”
We are going to leave to a biblical old age. Seriously. Lets take Switzerland. Population 8 million. In 8 weeks of lockdown we had less than 3000 dead “with” the virus. Since it seems nobody is dying of anything else, at least according to any mainstream media here, until all the current population dies of this virus it will take 5300 years. Wow, Matusalem had what, 900 years according to the Bible? We are easily going to beat that.
A quick spot of math shows that the UK with some 36000 dead will take 4000 years to have everybody die of this virus.Ok, 1300 years less than the Swiss, but still beating Matusalem hands down.
Why are we complaining then?
Oh yes, and the MSM keeps getting “reports” from experts in Swede that their approach was a “mistake”… of course, with no lockdown it will take the current Swedish population to die of this virus only 3300 years. The UK is beating the Swedes with an extra 700 years until death by virus of all the population. See, the MSM is right.
Here in Germany I carry a mask and I wear it on those occasions when a proprietor indicates by signage on their doors that they want their customers to do so. I have no fear of the virus, that’s just good manners, respecting their right to make such conditions.
While strolling on the street I never wear a mask but it has given me the opportunity to devise a very pointed cultural countermeasure, and this is assisted by the fact that it is spring and I get horrific hay fever at this time of year.
Every time I pass a mask-wearer going in the other direction I sniff loudly as they pass by.
It’s magnificent.
Nice being a lethal weapon!
I do this simply by virtue of existing in summer. I have vile hayfever.
It’s been fun over the past few weeks, I can tell you. (Mostly. The time I dragged off and temperature tested whilst giving blood wasn’t so fun).
Good to see the disdain alive and well in Germany. However, this mask rubbish. I cannot and will not accept it… Given supermarkets in Britain don’t require a mask to be worn, then I await with baited breath which shops will demand it on reopening. As I think that I will quite easily boycott any that do that.
That will soon put an end to it, if a lot of people have the same attitude
You have baited breath? Good for you. Hope a lot of zombies take the bait. Then you snap, and that’s another one caught and done for!
So the already glacial timetable for “easing” the lockdown is slipping.
“Non essential” shops, which were meant to be opening on the 1st, have been delayed to the 15th.
Until then we are expected to be oh-so-grateful that we can visit farmers markets, and window-shop at Volvo and Tesla dealers (other makes of car used to be available).
Well, since the only thing exponential about the lockdown is the growth of disastrous consequences (Hannan suggested it will take months longer for recovery for each extra day of lockdown), this is clearly rubbing salt into the wounds.
Ridiculous. Under German rules all of the areas of the country would be unlocking already. All of Europe unlocking rapidly. Virus disappearing here and everywhere. Still stuck at home. I’m never voting for these people again.
We have those opinion polls to blame I think. They are following the wishes of the population It is utterly ridiculous to wait three further weeks.
They manipulated the population into this mess. They have the means to manipulate us out but, as the fear is still being vociferously perpetuated by their MSM stooges, I suspect they’re in no rush – for some nefarious reason.
I have a friend who is heavily unionised, works for equity, will not go back to work as that involves getting the tube. Only option she has to get to work, allegedly. I’ve been visiting her in London for a decade and she’s always refused to get on the tube due her claustrophobia. I don’t live in London but I’d get on a tube tomorrow if it meant I could enjoy a heavily subsidesed public transport system.
So how did she get to work before?
Fuck knows, but what does it matter there’s a tory government to bring down.
Dominic Cummings quoted fro the “lockdown rules” relating to childcare. I’ve been hunting through the internet and gov sites but I can’t find what he was quoting from.Maybe I’m just being dim. Can someone help please?
The bit about exceptions for caring for vulnerable people.
But that specifically relates to vulnerable adults not children.”to provide care or assistance, including relevant personal care within the meaning of paragraph 7(3B) of Schedule 4 to the Safeguarding of Vulnerable Groups Act 2006(1), to a vulnerable person, or to provide emergency assistance;” The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (England) Regulations 2020
I’ve no great wish to defend Cummings but very early on in the lockdown a female official at a briefing specifically said to the assembled press in response to a question posing startlingly similar circumstances to Cummings, that children were considered vulnerable people. She said where two parents were unable to care for a child because of Covid they had recourse to local authority assistance should no other family member be available. These were specific ‘exceptional circumstances’ cited.
I think he was bending his interpretation. The guidance was for children who were at risk of abuse.
Yes, this was yet another twist in an already-tortured ‘interpretation’ of the rules.